Swofford speaks on B12, Notre Dame

[TerryD]

It didn't happen that way, and you know it.

Ok......

 

[JeepCSC]

You made gargantuan leaps in logic here. Getting Syracuse keeps the ACC together? You think Swofford's goal was to grab Cuse and Pitt to shake Notre Dame? Really? Because I think the whole thing kicked off when Maryland left. If Maryland doesn't leave, then what?

Access to bowls was the main thing Notre Dame got out of its deal with BE football (it clearly wasn't scheduling). Once Big East football basically implodes in 2011, they needed a new home. It isn't a coincidence that Notre Dame announces they are leaving the Big East within a year of Pitt/Syracuse (and West Virginia) announcing they are leaving. It didn't take Nostradamus to see that either. I don't think Pitt was used specifically (UConn would have served the same purpose as it would have forced the Big East to go raiding for ECU or whomever), though it probably was a nice bonus for Notre Dame.

 

[JeepCSC]

I may have expanded, but not changed it.

I answered what I thought, that the ACC may have thought that Pitt was a lure. For ND, a bit but not much.

The only real "lure" for the ACC was the ability to have a partial membership and keep football indy with the ACC.

Nothing else (Southern recruiting access, East Coast presence or Pitt/Syracuse vs. someone else) came close to keeping football indy as the main reason to join the ACC.

This makes no sense to me. The ACC couldn't offer partial membership and football independence as a lure because ND already had that with the BE. What the ACC could offer was bowl tie-ins and stability(-ish) for the other sports.

 

[JeepCSC]

I guess it should be noted that I do think Syracuse and Pitt (or UConn as the case could have been) were likely also brought in with an eye on a network and helping to bridge a gap with Boston. But I think trying to force Notre Dame's hand was a real goal with the move.

 

[billybud]

ALL layed out in 2010....

How the Big Ten Can Get Notre Dame: Target Pittsburgh, Fold the Big East

It is proposed as a possible way for the Big Ten to lure in Notre Dame, and, coincidentally or not, is almost exactly what the ACC did.

What is pretty much the best way to get Notre Dame to join, in my honest opinion?

Find a way to get rid of the Big East (at least in terms of football).

 

[billybud]

The fact that Notre Dame has played Pitt 67 games since 1930 and considered them to be a schedule mainstay, could not hurt in the ACC's quest to get the Irish to sign on the line to play football games in the ACC and move the other sports over.

 

[upstater]

ALL layed out in 2010....

How the Big Ten Can Get Notre Dame: Target Pittsburgh, Fold the Big East

It is proposed as a possible way for the Big Ten to lure in Notre Dame, and, coincidentally or not, is almost exactly what the ACC did.

What is pretty much the best way to get Notre Dame to join, in my honest opinion?

Find a way to get rid of the Big East (at least in terms of football).

So, if this was the plan, why did they try to expand at first WITHOUT inviting Pittsburgh?

In other words, this is complete BS, and you guys know it.

 

[ramses 2.0]

The Pitt/Syracuse expansion came down to Syracuse having enough votes & Pitt/UConn with some support. Pitt's history, solid recruiting territory ,etc appealed to the FSU/CLE/GT/VT/UM's of the conference,along with strong academics & research. Now getting ND on board also likely played some factor but how much we may never know

 

[kingdobbs]

So, if this was the plan, why did they try to expand at first WITHOUT inviting Pittsburgh?

In other words, this is complete BS, and you guys know it.

Do you think the Big East would have survived or remained a valid future partner for Notre Dame had we been invited instead of Pitt? Honestly?

 

[JeepCSC]

So, if this was the plan, why did they try to expand at first WITHOUT inviting Pittsburgh?

In other words, this is complete BS, and you guys know it.

If you read it, his actual plan is to dismantle BE by taking one of four schools (Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Pitt) and thereby forcing Notre Dame to move. He then says in his opinion he'd take Pitt if he could only take one, and then lists his reasons. But he says the basic premise remains the same whomever is taken and specifically says taking BE basketball teams might do more damage to the league in the eyes of Notre Dame than anything. I think the Tobacco Road schools have an affinity with UConn for good reasons, and it's likely Swofford's first instinct was that. But when push came to shove, Pitt had more support so Pitt it became. Notre Dame was shaken loose soon after, to the surprise of no one. Except maybe you.

 

[auggie22]

Yeaaaay! Syracuse and Pitt football. So good!!!

Cuse and Pitt had long term scheduling arrangements with ND, which had value to an ACC that was looking for ways to bring ND tent. Cuse signed the scheduling deal that we rejected.

If UCONN signs that ten year deal with ND instead of making a public spectacle about ND playing at the rent, we are in the ACC right now.

 

[ZooCougar]

Then you have conference realignment comprehension issues.

Swofford clearly laid out the difference in strategy between ACC and B12.

ACC was looking long term with their additions in terms of markets and building a competitive brand. That way they have negotiating leverage with TV.

B12? Did none of that.

I thought the Big 12 was going to expand initially in order to remake itself as something more than a flyover state conference.

 

[TerryD]

This makes no sense to me. The ACC couldn't offer partial membership and football independence as a lure because ND already had that with the BE. What the ACC could offer was bowl tie-ins and stability(-ish) for the other sports.

The Big East was imploding. ND needed a place to keep football independent but put its other sports in a P5 conference.

ND had no desire to join any conference in full, so the Big Ten was not an option.

The Big 12 and the ACC offered a partial deal. ND negotiated with both and chose the ACC.

 

[JeepCSC]

I guess we are simply differing on semantics. The ACC's lure of partial membership was basically the same as Notre Dame would have gotten anywhere outside the B10. But the larger point remains, Syracuse/Pitt/WVU was the catalyst to get Notre Dame to abandon the Big East/AAC.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Cuse and Pitt had long term scheduling arrangements with ND, which had value to an ACC that was looking for ways to bring ND tent. Cuse signed the scheduling deal that we rejected.

If UCONN signs that ten year deal with ND instead of making a public spectacle about ND playing at the rent, we are in the ACC right now.

Sometimes you have to "know when to hold um and know when to fold them"
The Storrs folks may be the worst gamblers of all time and things generally end badly for bad gamblers .

 

[FDNY99]

Sometimes you have to "know when to hold um and know when to fold them"
The Storrs folks may be the worst gamblers of all time and things generally end badly for bad gamblers .

Jeff Hathaway and Phil Austin/Mike Hogan were in charge of that one....yet everyone seems so quick to dismiss these 3 and blame others!

 

[upstater]

Do you think the Big East would have survived or remained a valid future partner for Notre Dame had we been invited instead of Pitt? Honestly?

Say what? I am saying that if Pitt is the school to lure ND, then why was UConn the first choice?

 

[JeepCSC]

Say what? I am saying that if Pitt is the school to lure ND, then why was UConn the first choice?

The BE not being a viable option for Notre Dame was the main move. Pitt was just a bonus.

 

[Fishy]

There were a lot of ways to kill the Big East.

Pitt wasn't the fastest way - they were never a linchpin of the conference. Strategically they made sense because it took a chess piece off the board for the Big 12.

But in reality, any move against the Big East was going to be fatal - it wasn't the ACC's first move that did the conference in, it was the secondary moves by the Big 12 and Big 10 that sealed it. Once that happened, you had no way to back fill and keep the conference alive.

 

[Chief00]

At this point - it's all academic to UConn. The Diaco buyout is small potatoes compared to a few more years of no football development.

 

[JeepCSC]

There were a lot of ways to kill the Big East.

Pitt wasn't the fastest way - they were never a linchpin of the conference. Strategically they made sense because it took a chess piece off the board for the Big 12.

But in reality, any move against the Big East was going to be fatal - it wasn't the ACC's first move that did the conference in, it was the secondary moves by the Big 12 and Big 10 that sealed it. Once that happened, you had no way to back fill and keep the conference alive.

This seems mostly right, except Rutgers left after the league was dead and buried. The BE was basically dead the moment they turned down their media deal in the wake of Colorado/Nebraska leaving. The ACC and Big XII began having a Mexican standoff on who would react first. Everyone assumed the Big XII would move first, but it wasn't to be. Which actually killed the BE is basically academic. Both had blood on their hands.

 

[billybud]

The Big East eventually committed suicide....the very premise of a polymorphic league with a hodgepodge of basketball and football while the other leagues were all sport, had some disadvantages,

After prime football schools moved out, turning down the the ESPN media deal was akin to taking a bottle of sleeping pills while chugging a pint of vodka.

 

[UConNation]

I feel like I'm missing something, because extending the GOR and getting a network feel like huge gets.

Yep... that was my mistake. I read Swofford and comprehended Bowlsby. I retract my former statement lol

 

[TerryD]

The Big East eventually committed suicide....the very premise of a polymorphic league with a hodgepodge of basketball and football while the other leagues were all sport, had some disadvantages,

After prime football schools moved out, turning down the the ESPN media deal was akin to taking a bottle of sleeping pills while chugging a pint of vodka.

What I could never understand is why the eight football schools did not use the "get out of jail free" card to split with the other schools and then expand and sign a TV deal as best they could.

That option was available but never exercised prior to the implosion. Was it because the eight football schools could not agree on anything?

 

[Hoophound]

What I could never understand is why the eight football schools did not use the "get out of jail free" card to split with the other schools and then expand and sign a TV deal as best they could.

That option was available but never exercised prior to the implosion. Was it because the eight football schools could not agree on anything?

I think they were hesitant to part with old rivals like Georgetown and Villanova. The Big East basketball conference was so good and shined so bright, it blinded a lot of very smart people. It isn't easy to pull the plug on something so great in so many ways.