Swish Appeal - "Notre Dame - Best Team to Follow to Promote Women's College Basketball"

[tomcat]

Seems to me the posters have gotten away from what the article actually said, which, if I recall correctly, was:
-- UConn is the best team in WCBB
-- ND plays an exciting brand of BB
-- ND may be more fun to watch for lots of fans.

Now, it does not take much to figure out I am a UConn fan, and after driving to Denver to ultimately watch ND take down UConn in the NCAAs, I have no love for Notre Dame. That said, I get the author's point. For one thing, ND is likely to be in at least a few closer games than UConn will. For another (and I haven't seen the schedule, so I don't know this for sure), I suspect ND will probably face a number of teams in its league that are better known and better attractions than the teams UConn will face in the AAC. I mean, it's fun to see UConn take on SMU for the very first time, but a 60-point ass-whuppin' does not augur well for the rematch, even at SMU. Notre Dame against anyone probably is a more competitive game. I believe it is hard to fault the logic.

 

[mhshuskies]

Isn't the article kind of making the case that it is better to look good than to be good?

 

[hjoerring]

IMO, no need to put ND down while building UCONN up (not that anyone here is doing that). ND has been the surprise of the season. Actually, Tennessee and ND, but Tennessee not in a good way. I think preseason ND was 6 or 7. Stanford, Duke, Tennessee, UCONN, Louisville and Maryland were ranked ahead of ND in one poll or the other.

Now ND is the #2 team in the country and it's not close between #2 and #3. Clearly they are doing something right there and I don't see any drop off going forward. Sure they lose Achonwa and Bracker, and McBride, but they gain Turner and Westbeld (one top 5 and one top 20) and I think they got a good guard too - maybe top 50.

I see UCONN and ND at the top of the WCBB world for the foreseeable future with everyone else looking up at them.

I am in full agreement. The author raises an interesting point- albeit with a bias. Both teams are similar and I was pleasantly surprise when McBride and , in an interview following their win over Duke, said that it all starts in their practices. This is what the Uconn girls say.
As for next year. We have too many serious injuries to be contented. You mentioned Wesbeld and Turner above and in the case of Wesbeld I doubted that we had a chance-- we came late and she was a midWest type (no neg.). But Turner. Why did she get away? Did she string us along and then drop us slowly because Muffet outsmart us? Or, did we put our eggs in one basket to show A'ja that it was her all the way? If we were the ones dropping Turner- why? What was it that we calculated about her game/mentality, etc. I vaguely recalled something about her being soft and not wanting to play center- but the same could be said for Wilson. Were our hands forced by these two: either me or her, but not both?

 

[doggydaddy]

Thinking about this on the way home from a morning of super skiing at Burke Mt., Olde Coach's previous hang-out

Notre Dame is playing some decent teams now and into the Tourney.
We're mostly playing Junior high School level (I know…2 Louisville, 1 more Rutgers).

Does this give them an advantage in honing their game?
I think it does.

High school level?

For better or for worse, they are our conference mates and I don't think the insults help. There are bad teams in every conference and Uconn would beat most of them by 40-60 points. No need to make it seem like Uconn plays teams worse than teams like BC, Pitt or VT of the ACC.

 

[HuskyNan]

In 95 beating the Queen...

Is this necessary? The lady is retired from the sport. Time to put away the daggers.

 

[HuskyNan]

Just to be clear, this is a blog post by an anonymous fan who claims to be a fan of LSU and Tennessee.

The main point seems to be that UConn is the best team but ND's games are closer and it executes really well on offense.

And the Vol fan, having seen such masterful displays of offense, knows what a good one looks like.

 

[wes33]

If coach P can get her act together Duke has enough talent to be a solid 3.

 

[msf22b]

High school level?

For better or for worse, they are our conference mates and I don't think the insults help. There are bad teams in every conference and Uconn would beat most of them by 40-60 points. No need to make it seem like Uconn plays teams worse than teams like BC, Pitt or VT of the ACC.

I do tend to exaggerate at times…sorry.
But what about the main point.
In your view, does Notre Dame's tougher schedule late give them an advantage
in the NCAA's with regard the increasingly likely meeting?

 

[HuskyNan]

In your view, does Notre Dame's tougher schedule late give them an advantage
in the NCAA's with regard the increasingly likely meeting?

Some coaches schedule a brutal schedule to prepare the team for success in the NCAA tournament. I'm not seeing where one = the other. LSU has the #1 SOS right now but I'm not penciling them in for the Championship. Besides, UConn has never played to the competition but instead it plays to its own expectations.

 

[Waquoit]

IMO, no need to put ND down while building UCONN up.

Why the heck not? ND the school has stuck a shiv into UConn sports at every turn, the WBB program included. They can't lose enough to suit me.

 

[psconn]

I do tend to exaggerate at times…sorry.
But what about the main point.
In your view, does Notre Dame's tougher schedule late give them an advantage
in the NCAA's with regard the increasingly likely meeting?

Yes, I think it does. It is difficult to improve when your B game blows opponents out. Geno and staff may be the best at avoiding playing to the competition, but there's no replacement for battle-testing against top competition late in the regular season. Our games against top competition are mostly in the rearview mirror and some of those teams have improved a lot since. I am hoping Louisville stands tall and competes for 40 and really challenges us. One plus to the weak league schedule is the opportunity to play the 2 or 3 guys that make up the bench a lot of minutes. Stokes, Banks (if available) and Chong may turn out to be huge players in the ultimate fate of UConn's season.

Another thing... IMO Notre Dame will see increasing benefits in recruiting as they take their place as the beast of the ACC, a powerful basketball league... while UConn can no longer use this argument. Not crying doom here but I suppose that will be the spin any responses will have. As I have said in the past, the margin for error is shrinking on several fronts. No one can make the argument that the breakup of the Big East was a positive for UConn's future success.

All that being said, UConn is still an awesome team and barring more injuries should be favored for #9 against any potential opponent. The factors above just make the task more difficult.

 

[doggydaddy]

I do tend to exaggerate at times…sorry.
But what about the main point.
In your view, does Notre Dame's tougher schedule late give them an advantage
in the NCAA's with regard the increasingly likely meeting?

In my view it does not give ND any advantage.

On top of exaggerating, you also tend to look for issues when there aren't any.

Please tell me how any of the ACC teams ND will play can prepare them for UConn.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Some coaches schedule a brutal schedule to prepare the team for success in the NCAA tournament. I'm not seeing where one = the other. LSU has the #1 SOS right now but I'm not penciling them in for the Championship. Besides, UConn has never played to the competition but instead it plays to its own expectations.

Okay, but when posting SOS rankings, it's best to indicate which ratings service's SOS you're talking about. You used the RPI index, which is a silly ranking that has UConn as the #4 team in the nation and with an SOS of #25. It's worthless for elite teams except as an historical artifact.

Sagarin's SOS is not that well constructed either on a linear basis, but at least it gets the #1 team right. The service that has a SOS rating that is not mentally-challenged and that is aimed towards dealing in a fair way with elite teams is Massey, and it still has UConn with the #1 SOS on the season. For a team that will end the regular season with 6 games against top 10 teams, a current #1 SOS and final #3 SOS sounds reasonable.

 

[uconnell]

IMO, no need to put ND down while building UCONN up (not that anyone here is doing that). ND has been the surprise of the season. Actually, Tennessee and ND, but Tennessee not in a good way. I think preseason ND was 6 or 7. Stanford, Duke, Tennessee, UCONN, Louisville and Maryland were ranked ahead of ND in one poll or the other.

Now ND is the #2 team in the country and it's not close between #2 and #3. Clearly they are doing something right there and I don't see any drop off going forward. Sure they lose Achonwa and Bracker, and McBride, but they gain Turner and Westbeld (one top 5 and one top 20) and I think they got a good guard too - maybe top 50.

I see UCONN and ND at the top of the WCBB world for the foreseeable future with everyone else looking up at them.

Isn't ND #2 because UConn beat Stanford, Duke and Maryland? Sort of like plowing the way for ND?

 

[doggydaddy]

Yes, I think it does. It is difficult to improve when your B game blows opponents out.

Why? Geno would tell you that the team can improve through practice. Why do you think they are so good? Not because of who they play.

Geno and staff may be the best at avoiding playing to the competition, but there's no replacement for battle-testing against top competition late in the regular season.

Well, it didn't hurt the last powerhouse team that Uconn had in 2009-10. They played an even weaker schedule to end the season. I don't think they will forget how to play in tougher games, if you think any of the earlier ranked teams game them much to learn from other than maybe the Baylor game.

Our games against top competition are mostly in the rearview mirror and some of those teams have improved a lot since.

Maybe Stanford has improved a lot. Maryland is a little better. Who else? Uconn has also improved, even with the loss of Tuck. Is there a more improved player this year than Hartley? And KML is just rounding into form, so to speak.

I am hoping Louisville stands tall and competes for 40 and really challenges us.

Maybe. But doubtful.

One plus to the weak league schedule is the opportunity to play the 2 or 3 guys that make up the bench a lot of minutes. Stokes, Banks (if available) and Chong may turn out to be huge players in the ultimate fate of UConn's season.

With a rotation of 7-8 players, the "weaker league" has nothing to do with opportunity for playing time. Geno has to play them if he doesn't want his players to burnout from extended minutes.

Another thing... IMO Notre Dame will see increasing benefits in recruiting as they take their place as the beast of the ACC, a powerful basketball league... while UConn can no longer use this argument. Not crying doom here but I suppose that will be the spin any responses will have. As I have said in the past, the margin for error is shrinking on several fronts. No one can make the argument that the breakup of the Big East was a positive for UConn's future success.

Spin is now the definition of differing opinion? What are the "several" fronts you are talking about. Until I see one recruit say that they didn't pick Uconn because of the conference they play in I just don't see it being a big impact. After Geno retires? Maybe, but I doubt the conferences will be the same.

All that being said, UConn is still an awesome team and barring more injuries should be favored for #9 against any potential opponent. The factors above just make the task more difficult.


I totally agree. Awesome team. The factors above will have very little impact on winning it all.

 

[psconn]

You did not disappoint, doggydaddy. Your buttons are large and well marked.

I accept all of what you said as a legitimate differing opinion. The 'spin' I had in mind when I said that was in direct reference to mocking references by other posters to Chicken Little and such. You offered differing opinion, those posts are mocking attacks at the poster. Big difference.

 

[doggydaddy]

You did not disappoint, doggydaddy. Your buttons are large and well marked.

I accept all of what you said as a legitimate differing opinion. The 'spin' I had in mind when I said that was in direct reference to mocking references by other posters to Chicken Little and such. You offered differing opinion, those posts are mocking attacks at the poster. Big difference.

I'd just ask you why you think playing Duke (who they just beat by 21), UNC (who just lost to unranked Miami and SU in consecutive games) and NCST (who lost to unranked Miami and Wright State) is more beneficial to Notre Dame than UConn playing Louisville twice and RU?

I just don't see how that will prepare ND for this UConn team.

 

[msf22b]

Doggy

ND plays Duke, North Csrolina, NC State and pesky Syracuse + the tourney, probably Maryland and Duke again
We play Louisville twice or three times and Rutgers and prob again in the tourney.

If I had to pick a viewing plan, I'd much rather watch UConn play ND's late schedule.

But, that is not answering your question which is an interesting one. It may very well be true that nothing will prepare ND from the very different feel of the 2014 Husky's.

To bolster your argument, my sense is that we will treat Louisville in a not dissimilar fashion to our conference colleagues at SMU.
I am sensing the likelyhood of a complete lambasting, Sunday next.

And that rout will take any and all suspense out of the following visits.

For Louisville, playing UConn will be akin to a visit to the guillotine.

And it won't even matter if there is a fourth game (which there won't be IMHO).

 

[psconn]

I'd just ask you why you think playing Duke (who they just beat by 21), UNC (who just lost to unranked Miami and SU in consecutive games) and NCST (who lost to unranked Miami and Wright State) is more beneficial to Notre Dame than UConn playing Louisville twice and RU?

I just don't see how that will prepare ND for this UConn team.

Good perspective... maybe UConn and ND are just ridiculously separated from the rest of the field and an answer on how close the first and second positions are will have to wait. One of your counterpoints above regarding the value of practice... Yes you can improve in practice but as Geno himself alluded to during one of his many appearances last night and also around the Baylor game, (paraphrasing of course) there is no substitute for a close game with a real opponent to see how your team will react to tough situations. I believe he said that so far they have reacted well but he thinks they are too nice. Working on making them meaner on the court.

 

[doggydaddy]

Good perspective... maybe UConn and ND are just ridiculously separated from the rest of the field and an answer on how close the first and second positions are will have to wait. One of your counterpoints above regarding the value of practice... Yes you can improve in practice but as Geno himself alluded to during one of his many appearances last night and also around the Baylor game, (paraphrasing of course) there is no substitute for a close game with a real opponent to see how your team will react to tough situations. I believe he said that so far they have reacted well but he thinks they are too nice. Working on making them meaner on the court.

Based on what I have seen so far, your first statement here might just true. I haven't seen any teams that will challenge either team on a neutral court.

Uconn had their close game (Baylor) and did great. I'm not sure what other close games will tell them.

Looked to me they had more of a tougher persona against SMU.

Geno speaks and the team listens. He will push all the right buttons until Uconn wins the championship.

 

[JoePgh]

Isn't it obvious that there needs to be some other team at or near UConn's level, or the sport loses interest even for us diehard fans? It would be better if there were a handful, but there are some advantages to having two teams that are clearly a quantum level above all the rest. That was the case 10-15 years ago with UConn and Tennessee, and that rivalry created a lot of interest from otherwise casual fans. If UConn vs. Notre Dame can take on the same or a greater aura, that would be wonderful for sparking everyone's increased interest in the sport, including that of Boneyarders (not to mention Geno).

Also, as long as the current coaches remain at each school, I don't think the UConn-ND rivalry will ever descend to the level of ugliness that the other one had in its later years. (However, we don't need any more publicized "Beccagates".)

And for those who esteem good, sound basketball, it helps to have two teams that play that kind of basketball. In the former rivalry, there was one team that played that way, and another team that played a low-IQ brand of basketball and compensated for it with the athleticism of their elite talent and (to their credit) a ton of effort.

 

[baggerbob]

Alydar just because Geno is a male from the North, and a little feisty with a Philly attitude has never sat well with some in a womens sport. In 95 beating the Queen and her court both at Gampel and in the NC game didn't fair well with many ole timers. Geno has had a uphill fight until recently. Knocking the queen off Rocky Top was not easy and to continue to run away with records that no one can touch is unheard of. Many NY fans consider UConn WCBB a mirror of the NY Yankees success over their years of dominance. To even compare NDs execution to UConn imo is one person opinion which their entitiled to. However ND has only been around for 3-4 years and after this years class graduates we will see where they are. UConn has been doing what they been doing for a very very long time. We will see after this season where ND fairs.

Next season UConn is still the team to beat. ND loses McBride, Braker and Achonwa, Duke loses 4 starters, Stanford loses Chiney and UConn loses Hartley and Dolsen. UConn will still be number 1 preseason. Where will the rest be ranked. UNC will have a lot of talent as will Tenn. Lousiville will be good again. So who steps up. Next year will tell a lot.

Its not about having the players. Its about have players who are coachable, discipline and have the burning desire to do something special.

All I have to say is last year, when Stewie got her head on straight, and the game really counted it was 83-65. No matter how many times you watch that game, UConn totally took Notre Dame out of any kind of offensive rhythm. There was only one team who had great execution in that game.