Sunday (3/10) games | Page 12 | The Boneyard

Sunday (3/10) games

Charlie Creme just tweeted:
"Some ups and downs to Championship Sunday on the 1-line. Now the top seeds are Baylor, Notre Dame, UConn, and Mississippi St. The 2’s: Louisville, Oregon, Stanford, Iowa"
 
Mississippi State versus Top 25

Wins
No. 12 South Carolina (2x)
No. 13 Kentucky
No. 15 Texas A&M
No. 17 Marquette
No. 21 Texas

Losses
No. 6 Oregon

I still see MSU as a No. 2 seed, but it wouldn’t surprise me them being the No. 1 seed in Portland.
 
jaydee602 said:
Oregon was a #2 in the last reveal. Losing the tournament might not be rewarded by the committee. After all, they knocked Louisville from a #1 for losing to ND. As long as they stay in Portland, Oregon would be OK as the #2 seed.
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Oregon was the overall #5. The committee hasn’t knocked Louisville from a 1 seed. That was Creme predicting.

It’s not about rewarding a team for losing. It’s about not dropping them below another team that didn’t beat anyone nearly as good as the team they just lost to.
 
While I congratulate Tara on a great victory over Oregon after Stanford was crushed by Oregon at Stanford earlier, I think a major factor in the game today was the opponent each team had yesterday. Oregon played a great UCLA team that no team would like to face in the NCAA tournament, while Stanford played the worst team in the PAC12, Washington.
 
Plebe said:
Oregon was the overall #5. The committee hasn’t knocked Louisville from a 1 seed. That was Creme predicting.

It’s not about rewarding a team for losing. It’s about not dropping them below another team that didn’t beat anyone nearly as good as the team they just lost to.
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I agree with you 100%. But the selection committee has a strange way of evaluating strength of schedule.
 
vowelguy said:
I don't see how Miss St ends up higher than Louisville. UNLESS Fuehring is out.

Cards have wins over UConn, NC St (x2), Syracuse
Losses to ND (x2) and Miami

Miss St has wins over So Carolina (x2), TAMU
Losses to Oregon and Mizzou

Lou has better wins and better losses, and not really that close.
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You guys are a trip.
Vic scheduled Texas, Oregon, Washington, Virginia, all tourney teams last year from top leagues. Also Furman and Lamar, both top 2 teams in their conferences as mid majors.
Can’t help it when teams don’t perform to standards, or lose their coach (Washington) and struggle.

Should be ND and State in the final again.
 
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garddog said:
You guys are a trip.
Vic scheduled Texas, Oregon, Washington, Virginia, all tourney teams last year from top leagues. Also Furman and Lamar, both top 2 teams in their conferences as mid majors.
Can’t help it when teams don’t perform to standards, or lose their coach (Washington) and struggle.

Should be ND and State in the final again.
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It doesn’t matter to the committee if some of their opponents were worse this year than last year or the year before. All that matters to them is how good they are this year.
 
Mississippi State wins over RPI top 30 teams: SC (x 2), Kentucky, Marquette, A&M, Missouri, and Texas. That's 7.

Louisville wins over RPI top 30 teams: NcState (x 2), UConn, Central Michigan, Kentucky, Syracuse, Florida State, and Arizona State. That's 8.


The big win Louisville has is over UConn, otherwise our win total against top 30 teams is identical. Whether or not we deserve #1 or #2 I dunno. Maybe committee thinks 1 less overall loss (30-2 vs 29-3) overcomes 1 less win over an RPI top 30 team. But you can also argue that Louisville winning over UConn essentially jumps you up one seed regardless of what else you do with the rest of your opponents.

I'm a Mississippi State fan, so obviously I'll come to the support of my team, but I get the arguments for Louisville. Again this is a borderline case, so I have no strong position on this either way.


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SimpleDawg said:
Mississippi State wins over RPI top 30 teams: SC (x 2), Kentucky, Marquette, A&M, Missouri, and Texas. That's 7.

Louisville wins over RPI top 30 teams: NcState (x 2), UConn, Central Michigan, Kentucky, Syracuse, Florida State, and Arizona State. That's 8.


The big win Louisville has is over UConn, otherwise our win total against top 30 teams is identical. Whether or not we deserve #1 or #2 I dunno. Maybe committee thinks 1 less overall loss (30-2 vs 29-3) overcomes 1 less win over an RPI top 30 team. But you can also argue that Louisville winning over UConn essentially jumps you up one seed regardless of what else you do with the rest of your opponents.

I'm a Mississippi State fan, so obviously I'll come to the support of my team, but I get the arguments for Louisville. Again this is a borderline case, so I have no strong position on this either way.
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And what made you decide to pick top 30 as your cutoff point. Pretty convenient I would say.

Again Louisville has 4 wins better than MSU’s best win. And MSU has a loss that is worse than Louisville’s worst loss. To me this isn’t even close.
 
msupinebelt said:
Mississippi State versus Top 25

Wins
No. 12 South Carolina (2x)
No. 13 Kentucky
No. 15 Texas A&M
No. 17 Marquette
No. 21 Texas

Losses
No. 6 Oregon

I still see MSU as a No. 2 seed, but it wouldn’t surprise me them being the No. 1 seed in Portland.
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That's poll rankings; not RPI. Committee doesn't look at the polls.
 
wbball novice said:
So glad the PAC 12 final is on ESPN2. The PAC 12 network is SD and blurry no matter how I adjust the picture.
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If you have it at all on your cable TV package, you can probably watch Pac-12 net on your computer in hi-def by logging in with your TV provider login. Of course your internet connection to the Pac-12 net's servers has to be good for that to work well.
 
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Plebe said:
And what made you decide to pick top 30 as your cutoff point. Pretty convenient I would say.

Again Louisville has 4 wins better than MSU’s best win. And MSU has a loss that is worse than Louisville’s worst loss. To me this isn’t even close.
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Ok, let's go to top 50.

We have that one more win against Auburn. That would make it 8 wins against the top 50.

Louisville has North Carolina, Miami (OH), and Boise State. That would make it 11 wins against the top 50.


Not sure how you can say Miami (OH) and Boise State should count as quality wins. Then I guess Lamar counts as a quality win for us. What is your cutoff point then? I'm not intentionally making a cutoff point so that's it convenient for me, but not sure where you would start to make one. As for 4 wins over the best win we have, well... maybe not everyone overemphasizes that. It's your opinion against someone else's (Creme) who clearly disagrees with you, dude.

Again, I see this as a borderline case and I'm not saying we absolutely deserve a #1. Just not sure why you're so adamantly giving us the short end of the stick.


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Both Oregon and Stanford trump Miss. State in just about all the categories, including RPI and SOS. Plus, Oregon has a head-to-head win over Miss. State. Stanford is the only team to beat Baylor. Not sure what Crème is smoking.
 
Louisville and Notre Dame were both #1 seeds. I thought most people were saying that a #1 beating a #1 should still leave both teams as #1. Yes, it was a 20 point victory, but without two of Louisville's star players for most or all of the game. How would Notre Dame have fared without Young and Turner?

Louisville should still be a #1 and I might keep Oregon ahead of Mississippi State. Would Mississippi State have defeated Stanford instead of a tired Arkansas team? I don't think so.
 
SimpleDawg said:
It's your opinion against someone else's (Creme) who clearly disagrees with you, dude.

Again, I see this as a borderline case and I'm not saying we absolutely deserve a #1. Just not sure why you're so adamantly giving us the short end of the stick.
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Please don’t take it personal, “dude.” I’m not out to hand out short or long ends of anything. Simply stating my analysis as I see it. This is a message board after all. I just happen to think Creme is wrong in this instance about Louisville. With Oregon I would say it’s a borderline call. Oregon has the better wins but also has the losses to Michigan State and UCLA.
 
vowelguy said:
At this moment, I'm gonna say
UConn/Stan
Bay/Iowa
ND/Miss St
Lou/Ore
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If I went strictly by RPI, and ignored the sites of the regionals, I'd go with:

Chicago - Notre Dame/Miss. State
Portland - Baylor/Iowa
Greensboro - Louisville/Oregon
Albany - Stanford/UConn

Taking the regional sites into consideration, and predicting what the committee would do (to get fans in the seats), I'd go with:

Chicago - Notre Dame/Iowa
Portland - Baylor/Oregon
Greensboro - Louisville/Miss. State
Albany - Stanford/UConn
 
southie said:
If I went strictly by RPI, and ignored the sites of the regionals, I'd go with:

Chicago - Notre Dame/Miss. State
Portland - Baylor/Iowa
Greensboro - Louisville/Oregon
Albany - Stanford/UConn

Taking the regional sites into consideration, and predicting what the committee would do (to get fans in the seats), I'd go with:

Chicago - Notre Dame/Iowa
Portland - Baylor/Oregon
Greensboro - Louisville/Miss. State
Albany - Stanford/UConn
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If Louisville is still a 1 seed they almost certainly go to Portland. Baylor will be in Greensboro IMO. That has been the case in each of the two reveals so far.
 
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Plebe said:
Please don’t take it personal, “dude.” I’m not out to hand out short or long ends of anything. Simply stating my analysis as I see it. This is a message board after all. I just happen to think Creme is wrong in this instance about Louisville. With Oregon I would say it’s a borderline call. Oregon has the better wins but also has the losses to Michigan State and UCLA.
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Based on the guidelines that you use, what justifies UConn as a #1 seed then? They have that win over Notre Dame, but pretty much nobody else after that. Unless you're counting 3 wins over UCF as quality wins.

I know this is a message board and assuming that everyone here loves those RPI numbers, I can use those same numbers too. We're #40 in SOS, UConn is #41. Identical wins and losses. They have no bad loss, while we have that one against Missouri. But we collected better wins overall. There's pluses and minuses in favor of both.

Say I concede Louisville should be ahead of us. If we go by those same RPI/SOS numbers, they probably should be ahead of UConn too. And UConn and Mississippi State might also be a borderline case.

And please don't think I'm fighting you on purpose, I'm just trying understand how people are evaluating this because this feels like a little bit of heat against Mississippi State on a day where we go 18-1 in the SEC for the 2nd straight year. Like I said, their arguments for Louisville being over us is logical, but if we use those same arguments, then they should be over UConn too. Again, outside of UConn's win over Notre Dame, Louisville has way more better wins than UConn overall.

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Plebe said:
If Louisville is still a 1 seed they almost certainly go to Portland. Baylor will be in Greensboro IMO. That has been the case in each of the two reveals so far.
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Did the reveals actually indicate to which sites the seeds were placed?
 
For those of us without cable of any sort here's the replay of the best performance of the day.

 
SimpleDawg said:
Based on the guidelines that you use, what justifies UConn as a #1 seed then? They have that win over Notre Dame, but pretty much nobody else after that. Unless you're counting 3 wins over UCF as quality wins.
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Are you forgetting that UConn also beat South Carolina? I'm sure the Mississippi State folks would love to know that you don't consider their best two wins to be worth anything.

I personally would project Louisville as still ahead of UConn at #3 overall. I don't believe, as Charlie apparently does, that losing to ND with 2 starters (presumably) temporarily out injured is going to drop them behind teams that haven't beaten anyone nearly as good as Notre Dame **since the last reveal six days ago**.

But IMO UConn stays a #1 seed (for now, pending tomorrow's outcome) because I don't believe that MSU, Oregon or Stanford did enough **in the past 6 days** to bring their **overall resume** up past UConn's. Remember it was the committee that had UConn as #4 overall on March 4. UConn's resume is light on quality wins but they do have the win at ND *and* also have no losses to teams outside the committee's most recent top 2 teams. It wouldn't have shocked me to see UConn on the 2 line six days ago, but again it was the committee who had them as a 1 seed.
 
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Thanks for those links.

The Greensboro regional will be pretty low in fan attendance if Baylor and Iowa are sent there as the top two seeds (and they end up in the regional final). NC State there as a #3 seed helps a bit, but placing South Carolina there, too, would guarantee a better fan turnout.

The other 3 regionals will do fine in attendance if Oregon, ND, and UConn go to nearby regional sites.
 
Plebe said:
Are you forgetting that UConn also beat South Carolina? I'm sure the Mississippi State folks would love to know that you don't consider their best two wins to be worth anything.

I personally would project Louisville as still ahead of UConn at #3 overall. I don't believe, as Charlie apparently does, that losing to ND with 2 starters (presumably) temporarily out injured is going to drop them behind teams that haven't beaten anyone nearly as good as Notre Dame **since the last reveal six days ago**.

But IMO UConn stays a #1 seed (for now, pending tomorrow's outcome) because I don't believe that MSU, Oregon or Stanford did enough **in the past 6 days** to bring their **overall resume** up past UConn's. Remember it was the committee that had UConn as #4 overall on March 4. UConn's resume is light on quality wins but they also have no losses to teams outside the committee's most recent top 2 teams. It wouldn't have shocked me to see UConn on the 2 line six days ago, but again it was the committee who still had them as a 1 seed.
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Ok, my bad with the South Carolina omission. But even with that, I think Mississippi State still has more better wins overall. SC and Notre Dame is what UConn has, but pretty blank after that.

My overall point is that if people (not you specifically) short end us because of our SOS rank, you can do the same for UConn. If they short end us for lack of overall quality wins, you can do the same for UConn.

If we go by recent play, I agree that we shouldn't jump anyone because we beat Arkansas, but Oregon has added losses recently which in my opinion should drop them below us. And if we also go by recent play, Stanford probably has the strongest claim than anyone that they should move up.

And this is just my opinion not trying to be argumentative, but imo only Baylor and Notre Dame should be CLEAR #1 seeds. I think there are arguments against everyone else. For Louisville, it's a shaky tournament run. For Oregon, it's those recent losses. For Stanford, it's because of the hole they dug with the early losses. For UConn, it's lack of overall quality wins. For Mississippi State it's beating Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, LSU, Arkansas, and Tennessee as 5 out of our last 7 wins, which is nothing special I agree.

Thanks for clarifying anyways.


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Summarizing the day again:

No major surprises, really. The biggest upset of the day was Creighton over Butler in the Big East. Stanford over Oregon is an extremely mild upset if at all. And even though Iowa and Fordham were 2 seeds who beat 1 seeds (Maryland and VCU) for their conference title, I would consider those to be pick-em games.

Winners in bold below:

Championship games on ESPN2:
ACC: Notre Dame (1) vs. Louisville (2) (12pm ET)
SEC: Mississippi St (1) vs. Arkansas (10) (2pm)
Big Ten: Maryland (1) vs. Iowa (2) (6pm)
Pac-12: Oregon (1) vs. Stanford (2) (8pm)

Other championship games:
A-10: VCU (1) vs. Fordham (2) (12pm ET)
SoCon: Mercer (1) vs. Furman (2) (12pm)

Big 12 semifinals:
Baylor (1) vs. Kansas St (4) (3pm ET)
Iowa St (2) vs. Texas (3) (5:30pm)

AAC semifinals:
UConn (1) vs. USF (5) (4pm, ESPN2)
UCF (2) vs. Cincinnati (3) (6:30, ESPNU)

Big East quarterfinals
Marquette (1) vs. St. John's (9) (1pm ET)
Georgetown (4) vs. Villanova (5) (3:30pm)
DePaul (2) vs. Providence (7) (7pm)
Butler (3) vs. Creighton (6) (9:30pm)
 
Charlie Creme's latest bracketology: Posted tonight.

Greensboro
Baylor
Iowa
NC State
S Carolina

Chicago
Notre Dame
Stanford
Maryland
A&M

Albany
UConn
Louisville
Syracuse
Oregon State

Portland
Miss State
Oregon
Miami
Iowa St
 
SimpleDawg said:
Mississippi State wins over RPI top 30 teams: SC (x 2), Kentucky, Marquette, A&M, Missouri, and Texas. That's 7.

Louisville wins over RPI top 30 teams: NcState (x 2), UConn, Central Michigan, Kentucky, Syracuse, Florida State, and Arizona State. That's 8.


The big win Louisville has is over UConn, otherwise our win total against top 30 teams is identical. Whether or not we deserve #1 or #2 I dunno. Maybe committee thinks 1 less overall loss (30-2 vs 29-3) overcomes 1 less win over an RPI top 30 team. But you can also argue that Louisville winning over UConn essentially jumps you up one seed regardless of what else you do with the rest of your opponents.

I'm a Mississippi State fan, so obviously I'll come to the support of my team, but I get the arguments for Louisville. Again this is a borderline case, so I have no strong position on this either way.


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For me Louisville has 3 losses one was a blowout out by ND, they are not a number 1 seed.
Plebe said:
Real classy by Vic. Leaving his starters in when they're up by 20 with less than 2 minutes just so they can hit 100 and run the lead up to 30.

You see that Neighbors (one of the most affable coaches around) wanted nothing to do with the handshake? That's why.
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I watched the replay, Vic and Mike shook hands, spoke and then continued down line, no difference than any other game. Guess we see what we want to see!
 
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