Sue Bird Interview with some Paige tidbits

[CocoHusky]

A lot of people like Bird who have a public platform like to think they speak for a lot of people. They should realize that in fact, it’s just their opinion.

Depends on the subject matter though. This particular subject matter for which Sue was asked an opinion is regarding UCONN all time greats. In that regard there aren't more than a handful of people on this planet more qualified to express an opinion than Sue Bird. That's why I'm frankly surprised by the push back. I understand @Bigboote point/pushback that Championships is not the "only" criteria but I haven't heard any suggestions of a better criteria.

 

[CocoHusky]

so you're lowering the bar for her from championships to stats? the point Uconn you're measured by Championships which is why people place Stewie over Maya and D even tho both were better players than Stewie hopefully Paige can win some Championships to further complicated the debate as to who's the best but if she doesn't win anything she's just another top recruit with amazing stats

Don't think the bar is being lowered, just using a different criteria stats vs. championships. It is only "some" people that elevate Stewie above DT based on championships alone. Many other validly point out that DT had lesser capable teammates and had to carry a larger burden specifically in DT Junior and Senior championship campaigns.

 

[HuskyNan]

The title argument is a good one but Bird went there because she knows that's all she has left in defense of her status. Not that Bird isn't a legend but Bueckers was NPOY as a freshman, when Bird didn't even play.

She didn’t play because she tore her ACL early in the season. After she was hurt and Kiersten Walters couldn’t play because of her knees, the remaining guards available to play the point were Amy Duran, Courtney Gaine, Marci Glenney, and Tihana Abrlic. Of course they didn’t win a championship.

 

[Bald Husky]

Absolutely true but ironically it may have been the best thing to happen to her. She often referred to that game as a prime motivator. The next year in the Finals, Geno called a time out and cleared the left side of the court for her as a sophomore. She backed down her defender, spun, double pumped and Stacey Dales, who had come over to double, fouled her and fouled out. D made the bucket and foul shot. Game, set, match. My point wasn't that D was better than Paige as a freshman, it was that on the National Semi stage Paige was outplayed. Perhaps that loss to Arizona will have the same motivating effect on her and hopefully the whole team.

I think D is the GOAT, and yes that play was unbelievable. But just remember, Paige was the primary player in the game, the POTY, everyone was keying on her. D was surrounded by four great players that had more experience and capability as seen by Oklahoma. These other four players were guarded just as close as D, but Geno recognized how special she was and was able to make the play. Lets not forget that these other players were four of the first six picks in the next WNBA draft. Just saying that Paige was figuratively naked out there while D had plenty of shelter. By the way, D was a sophomore when she made that play, so lets see what happens next April before we pass judgement.

 

[oldude]

Sort of. Here is the full quote from the OP:

Yes she did say the words “the only thing you’re judged on is championships” but you have to interpret those word within context laid out in the complete quote. She is using that criteria particular criteria as tie breaker among several talented athletes.

OK, I'll accept that interpretation. But for the sake of argument, let's say Paige is named a 1st team AA (likely) and NPOY (possible) in each of the next 3 seasons, but Stanford, SC or some other team take down the Huskies short of a national championship in each of those seasons (possible). Does the tiebreaker mean that Paige is not as good as Sue, DT, Maya, Stewie, Mo......?

By the way, only at UConn could we even have this discussion. UConn fans are truly blessed........

 

[CocoHusky]

I think D is the GOAT, and yes that play was unbelievable. But just remember, Paige was the primary player in the game, the POTY, everyone was keying on her. D was surrounded by four great players that had more experience and capability as seen by Oklahoma. These other four players were guarded just as close as D, but Geno recognized how special she was and was able to make the play. Lets not forget that these other players were four of the first six picks in the next WNBA draft. Just saying that Paige was figuratively naked out there while D had plenty of shelter. By the way, D was a sophomore when she made that play, so lets see what happens next April before we pass judgement.

DT best statistical year was indeed her sophomore year-yet that same year it was Sue Bird that was named AP National POY. 4 different players (Ruth Riley, Sue Bird, Alana Beard & Diana Taurasi) would win the AP POY award while DT was in a UCONN uniform. The first fact is a clear indication that you cannot always rely on just stats. The second statement might be an indication that the college landscape in DT's college days was far more competitive than it is today which might account for a freshman (Paige) sweeping the POY for the first time EVER in the history of WCBB.

 

[BobbyJ]

I expect the entire team to be motivated by the AZ loss. The picture that E posted when she announced her intention to return next season, of Liv, Christyn and herself walking off the court with looks of both dissatisfaction and determination, with the caption, “Unfinished Business” pretty much confirms the team’s motivation for the upcoming season.

I realize that it's a big thing now to use social media to express intentions etc. like motivation, revenge, or whatever. But I'm rarely impressed with anything expressed on SM. Because I subscribe to the "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do" way of thinking, I'll wait to see what these 3 and the whole team do this offseason to make themselves better players to actually be able to utilize this massive dose of motivation. They'll need to be a much more focused and physically tougher team to play against to make this stuff anything more than just tough talk. And most of them have a ways to go to accomplish that.

 

[CocoHusky]

The title argument is a good one but Bird went there because she knows that's all she has left in defense of her status. Not that Bird isn't a legend but Bueckers was NPOY as a freshman, when Bird didn't even play. And Taurasi told us what to expect for the next 3 years. Just for argument sake let's say that Bueckers wins zero titles but wins NPOY 4 times (with the stats to back it up). Would she be precluded from consideration as the best pg in UConn history? I say no. Titles are won by TEAMS not players. The best player is so whether or not he/she played on a winning team. In the 60's the Celtics were the best team but the best player was Wilt.

Frankly it's nice to see former players chide Bueckers about her lack of a title. After observing her for 4 years I think she responds better to a challenge than to constant praise. It's her best attribute.

Sue Bird needs no defense of her status her legend is very SECURE. Sue will go down as the best PG to ever play the women's game and she will be a 1st ballot HOF based on her UCONN, WNBA, International and Olympic championships.
Your Question: Just for argument sake let's say that Bueckers wins zero titles but wins NPOY 4 times (with the stats to back it up). Would she be precluded from consideration as the best pg in UConn history?
My Answer: Of course not. I would also bet you that even if Paige were to win the next 3 NCAA championships & three years from now we are having a debate of the best UCONN PG ever Sue Bird and Moriah Jefferson will be included in that conversation. It will be a remarkable conversation to have and I hope I'm around for it because it will have been nearly 25 years since Sue played at UCONN.

 

[BBallF]

I think D is the GOAT, and yes that play was unbelievable. But just remember, Paige was the primary player in the game, the POTY, everyone was keying on her. D was surrounded by four great players that had more experience and capability as seen by Oklahoma. These other four players were guarded just as close as D, but Geno recognized how special she was and was able to make the play. Lets not forget that these other players were four of the first six picks in the next WNBA draft. Just saying that Paige was figuratively naked out there while D had plenty of shelter. By the way, D was a sophomore when she made that play, so lets see what happens next April before we pass judgement.

Everything you said is true. The point of talking about that play was the fact that it came a year after the horrible game against ND in the semis which motivated her. I have no judgment to pass at this time except that Paige was outplayed against Arizona but so was the team. DT was keyed on on defense her entire junior and senior seasons but she not only succeeded, she made everyone else around her better. Very few players have been able to do that.

 

[eebmg]

Laundry List of what puts Paige on my Mt Rushmore (assuming she still plays at her individual level and gets at least 1 Naty) By personal level, she maintains her unanimous first team AA status , elite play in playoffs etc. She may even not get another NPOY since her stats may become less pronounced as she lets other shine more

1) No one has had as much pressure put on her as Paige especially with the level of hype before she came here. The pressure to win at UConn continues to grow as the program has ascended to the most rarified air and at the same time, the NC has eluded UConn for the last 5 years. Far more than the Sue/Diana Years. I would maybe put Stewie on the same level with her guarantee of 4 NC's etc

2) She is playing without any AA's and has had to mold a team with far more underclassman than upper classman. I assume that will change in the upcoming years but nothing is completely sure until it happens

3) She has shown a unique ability to make the biggest shots when the team has desperately needed it under pressure of real losses. (TN, SC and even AZ) Stewie has never had to do that although I imagine she would if put in the same positions.

4) Perhaps unique to my mindset but she exceeds her athleticism and is completely unselfish She is not the absurdly gifted athlete like Maya or Stewie and has to use her Basketball IQ far more to get the job done.

5) I say 1 NC is enough simply because the competition level of other teams has gotten so much better. Gone are the days when UConn is the favorite over the field.

 

[BBallF]

Sue Bird needs no defense of her status her legend is very SECURE. Sue will go down as the best PG to ever play the women's game and she will be a 1st ballot HOF based on her UCONN, WNBA, International and Olympic championships.
Your Question: Just for argument sake let's say that Bueckers wins zero titles but wins NPOY 4 times (with the stats to back it up). Would she be precluded from consideration as the best pg in UConn history?
My Answer: Of course not. I would also bet you that even if Paige were to win the next 3 NCAA championships & three years from now we are having a debate of the best UCONN PG ever Sue Bird and Moriah Jefferson will be included in that conversation. It will be a remarkable conversation to have and I hope I'm around for it because it will have been nearly 25 years since Sue played at UCONN.

I would agree that Sue will go down as the greatest point guard ever in women's basketball when she retires and when she is inducted into the HOF. Paige can unseat her from that throne later though. We just have a long way to go for that with NCs, Olympic Golds, WNBA, etc.

 

[BobbyJ]

Depends on the subject matter though. This particular subject matter for which Sue was asked an opinion is regarding UCONN all time greats. In that regard there aren't more than a handful of people on this planet more qualified to express an opinion than Sue Bird. That's why I'm frankly surprised by the push back. I understand @Bigboote point/pushback that Championships is not the "only" criteria but I haven't heard any suggestions of a better criteria.

No real pushback. Just pointing out that there's no requirement to be qualified to express an opinion. Based on the definition, "a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge", you and I are just as qualified as Bird. Of course people are free to value what she says above others if they want, but in the end it's still just her opinion.

 

[BobbyJ]

OK, I'll accept that interpretation. But for the sake of argument, let's say Paige is named a 1st team AA (likely) and NPOY (possible) in each of the next 3 seasons, but Stanford, SC or some other team take down the Huskies short of a national championship in each of those seasons (possible). Does the tiebreaker mean that Paige is not as good as Sue, DT, Maya, Stewie, Mo......?

By the way, only at UConn could we even have this discussion. UConn fans are truly blessed........

Exactly. Unless Auriemma has put out a blanket statement that this is the view of the program, Bird is only speaking for herself and those who agree with her.

 

[Mdoggie]

Are we in that much need of a savior?
Sue is 100% correct. She didn’t make the “rules” stop denying it people. I would bet my dollars to your donuts that Geno would agree. It maybe unfortunate but you’re judged by Nattys at UConn. Don’t just argue for argument sake. Lol

 

[BobbyJ]

DT best statistical year was indeed her sophomore year-yet that same year it was Sue Bird that was named AP National POY. 4 different players (Ruth Riley, Sue Bird, Alana Beard & Diana Taurasi) would win the AP POY award while DT was in a UCONN uniform. The first fact is a clear indication that you cannot always rely on just stats. The second statement might be an indication that the college landscape in DT's college days was far more competitive than it is today which might account for a freshman (Paige) sweeping the POY for the first time EVER in the history of WCBB.

I definitely agree with this. In comparison to that era, today's WCBB is a put it through your legs, look the other way, fall down when you're touched, finesse game. The front lines UConn and Tenn. put on the floor back then would be making today's players and coaches cry now. Those kids got after it and pounded each other. And yes, I think the officials are softer now too.

 

[baggerbob]

Sue's not wrong. Her point was when you have so many great players, championships are a way to distinguish among them. But, I think, Paige still has a chance to win 4, right? That would put her right at the top of the list, unless we want to go with National Championship winning percentage per years of eligibility. That would be a very "UConn" metric but it isn't particularly relevant at most schools.

24-0 is the standard never losing an NCAA tournament game.

 

[baggerbob]

There is simply no way to determine who is the best player in UConn history, and which was the best team. There is no team in the country that has produced the huge number of stars that UConn has. With other schools I'm sure the fans and local media could have a consensus of the top 5 players in their history, but we cannot really agree on a top 10 for UConn.

It is extremely unusual for a single player to win a NC by herself, and in my recollection, it still hasn't been done. Sue was surrounded by great players, Stewie was surrounded by great players, Maya, Tina, the same. You can debate the different great teams, but a star will only "contribute" if surrounded by other excellent players. After the seniors left after 2002, the sophomore Diana Taurasi was left with 3 freshmen and a few bench players. This team had no business making it to the final 4, but at the sacrifice of her own personal stats, Diana taught, mentored, and not only willed this team to the F4, but actually pulled them out of the fire against a excellent and tall Texas team, then beat Tennessee in the final.

As far as best team, most people think the 2002 team was best, and yes, they were great. As far as total talent, 2001 had these same players as 2002, but also Svetlana Abrosimova and Shea Ralph, both first team All Americans.

Because of all the great players that end up playing together, it just is hard to really know. NCs need a great team, not only a great player. That should not be the criteria, so the debate will go on.

PS to Oldude, I agree that MJ was our best PG at this time.

If anyone can find the transcript of the final 4 interview in 2013 with Kelly Faris and Geno after the Louisville game. I remember reading Kelly saying we knew we couldn't win without. Stewie.

 

[HuskyNan]

Sue Bird needs no defense of her status her legend is very SECURE. Sue will go down as the best PG to ever play the women's game and she will be a 1st ballot HOF based on her UCONN, WNBA, International and Olympic championships.
Your Question: Just for argument sake let's say that Bueckers wins zero titles but wins NPOY 4 times (with the stats to back it up). Would she be precluded from consideration as the best pg in UConn history?
My Answer: Of course not. I would also bet you that even if Paige were to win the next 3 NCAA championships & three years from now we are having a debate of the best UCONN PG ever Sue Bird and Moriah Jefferson will be included in that conversation. It will be a remarkable conversation to have and I hope I'm around for it because it will have been nearly 25 years since Sue played at UCONN.

Ironically, Sue came to UConn as a shooting guard, although she did play some point in high school. Geno converted her to the point after Kiersten was unable to play.

 

[Alydar]

But Wilt was not the best team player, Russell was. In my mind you can't be the greatest player if you don't bring home the gold. Would Jordan be Jordan without 6 rings? If you are so great, you should be able to translate that to a title. Whether we like to say it or not, Paige didn't carry us against Arizona and to a NC, the way Stewie did her freshman year. Paige may have been the best player in WBB this year, but she wasn't the best player that game. If Paige wins 4 POY awards but no titles, I put Bird ahead of her.

Ever hear of Ted Williams?

 

[BBallF]

Ever hear of Ted Williams?

Maybe, I think he might have played baseball though. Totally different sport with a hitter and fielder not usually having the impact of a pitcher like Koufax or Gibson. In basketball, a great player can take over a game or a series or a season. It's one of five players and you can touch the ball every possession and pass, shoot or do whatever. The Splinter wasn't up every at bat. Not every ball was hit to him in right field.

In basketball, you want to be the greatest, you gotta win the biggest prizes. The greatest players do. Stockton and Barkley were great but they were not the greatest. Barkley himself in his MVP season said he thought he was the greatest player in the league until they played MJ in the Finals.

Paige is only on Second Mountain with Bird and Charles in my book unless she wins multiple crowns. Right now she is tied with Kara Wolters and Jenn Rizzotti for NPOY awards. I'm not ready to put a crown on her head yet. She has to earn it.

 

[oldude]

Maybe, I think he might have played baseball though. Totally different sport with a hitter and fielder not usually having the impact of a pitcher like Koufax or Gibson. In basketball, a great player can take over a game or a series or a season. It's one of five players and you can touch the ball every possession and pass, shoot or do whatever. The Splinter wasn't up every at bat. Not every ball was hit to him in right field.

In basketball, you want to be the greatest, you gotta win the biggest prizes. The greatest players do. Stockton and Barkley were great but they were not the greatest. Barkley himself in his MVP season said he thought he was the greatest player in the league until they played MJ in the Finals.

Paige is only on Second Mountain with Bird and Charles in my book unless she wins multiple crowns. Right now she is tied with Kara Wolters and Jenn Rizzotti for NPOY awards. I'm not ready to put a crown on her head yet. She has to earn it.

The baseball player with the most World Series championships ever is Yogi Berra, and he had a substantial impact on every single one.

 

[wolfe613]

Maybe, I think he might have played baseball though. Totally different sport with a hitter and fielder not usually having the impact of a pitcher like Koufax or Gibson. In basketball, a great player can take over a game or a series or a season. It's one of five players and you can touch the ball every possession and pass, shoot or do whatever. The Splinter wasn't up every at bat. Not every ball was hit to him in right field.

In basketball, you want to be the greatest, you gotta win the biggest prizes. The greatest players do. Stockton and Barkley were great but they were not the greatest. Barkley himself in his MVP season said he thought he was the greatest player in the league until they played MJ in the Finals.

Paige is only on Second Mountain with Bird and Charles in my book unless she wins multiple crowns. Right now she is tied with Kara Wolters and Jenn Rizzotti for NPOY awards. I'm not ready to put a crown on her head yet. She has to earn it.

so explain Lebron with the cavs when he carried a bunch of role players to a finals

 

[Alydar]

Sue specifically said: "But, when you go to Connecticut, the only thing you’re judged on is championships."
Is anyone seriously debating this statement?

Only as far as the national media is concerned but I for one am only a fan and while the disappointment of not winning the title is real I judge the team on how many well-played games I get to see over the season.
The assumption that a single elimination playdown tournament always results with the best team winning simply isn't true. It produces a tournament champion. I remember when the NFL post season consisted of one game. The winner was the champion and at least they got into the game by having the best record in their conference. The Giants third superbowl championship, the first time they made Brady cry, they entered the postseason as a wildcard team. No one, even rabid Giant fans would suggest they were the best team in the NFL and history will record that NE was the best team that year.
Yes, the NFL isn't WCBB. And I have had this debate many times with folks who say that being the champion is equivilent to being the best. I think they are similar but not equivilent.

My opinion is that the GOAT question will have an obvious answer in the next several years, along with the GTOAT question.

 

[BBallF]

The baseball player with the most World Series championships ever is Yogi Berra, and he had a substantial impact on every single one.

He didn't win any of those Series himself or impact them in the same sense that Diana won in 2003 and 2004. Could the Yankees have won those Series without Yogi? Good debate in a bar. Could the Bulls have won 6 without MJ, or the Celtics without Russell or UCONN without Stewie? No way.

 

[Alydar]

She didn’t play because she tore her ACL early in the season. After she was hurt and Kiersten Walters couldn’t play because of her knees, the remaining guards available to play the point were Amy Duran, Courtney Gaine, Marci Glenney, and Tihana Abrlic. Of course they didn’t win a championship.

I assumed that everyone knew Bird missed her freshman season.

 

[Zanzman]

Maybe, I think he might have played baseball though. Totally different sport with a hitter and fielder not usually having the impact of a pitcher like Koufax or Gibson. In basketball, a great player can take over a game or a series or a season. It's one of five players and you can touch the ball every possession and pass, shoot or do whatever. The Splinter wasn't up every at bat. Not every ball was hit to him in right field.

In basketball, you want to be the greatest, you gotta win the biggest prizes. The greatest players do. Stockton and Barkley were great but they were not the greatest. Barkley himself in his MVP season said he thought he was the greatest player in the league until they played MJ in the Finals.

Paige is only on Second Mountain with Bird and Charles in my book unless she wins multiple crowns. Right now she is tied with Kara Wolters and Jenn Rizzotti for NPOY awards. I'm not ready to put a crown on her head yet. She has to earn it.

So a hitter and fielder who play in most games have less impact than a pitcher that throws every fifth day Couldn’t disagree more

 

[BBallF]

so explain Lebron with the cavs when he carried a bunch of role players to a finals

What is there to explain? If he doesn't ever win a ring, and not 4 of them, he is not in the conversation.

 

[wolfe613]

What is there to explain? If he doesn't ever win a ring, and not 4 of them, he is not in the conversation.

so it would have been better that he lost in rd 1? IF Paige is not on this Uconn Roster is this team even in the elite 8, I'll say they beat Iowa but no chance vs Baylor

 

[Alydar]

Sue Bird needs no defense of her status her legend is very SECURE. Sue will go down as the best PG to ever play the women's game and she will be a 1st ballot HOF based on her UCONN, WNBA, International and Olympic championships.
Your Question: Just for argument sake let's say that Bueckers wins zero titles but wins NPOY 4 times (with the stats to back it up). Would she be precluded from consideration as the best pg in UConn history?
My Answer: Of course not. I would also bet you that even if Paige were to win the next 3 NCAA championships & three years from now we are having a debate of the best UCONN PG ever Sue Bird and Moriah Jefferson will be included in that conversation. It will be a remarkable conversation to have and I hope I'm around for it because it will have been nearly 25 years since Sue played at UCONN.

I think I stated that she was a legend. If you want to expand this from a UConn POV to a career GOAT then come see me in 15 or 20 years. Hopefully I'll still remember my name then.

 

[jdote33]

I definitely agree with this. In comparison to that era, today's WCBB is a put it through your legs, look the other way, fall down when you're touched, finesse game. The front lines UConn and Tenn. put on the floor back then would be making today's players and coaches cry now. Those kids got after it and pounded each other. And yes, I think the officials are softer now too.

Very interesting and thoughtful conversation. I agree that basketball is played much differently on all levels, than it was back then. But just in terms of talent level, or the field of competition, I'm not so sure back then was better. I'd defer to those who watched as I wasn't too familiar with teams outside of Uconn. I just think now, there are a lot of stacked teams. As much as I would like Uconn to win next year, the top 5 teams are LOADED (Stanford, South Carolina, Uconn, Maryland, NC State) with rosters full of clear WNBA level talents. It just seems like their is a lot of stiff competition out there,and maybe I just don't remember but was the field as talented back then. Of course there were very good teams, like Notre Dame, Tennessee, and Georgia. I just feel there are more compteitors, but maybe I'm underselling Uconn's team this upcoming year.