Starting point guard

[hoophuskee]

"you seem to have dismissed Nika completely"

That's not true. I posted that she will get more minutes at pg than Bueckers. Is that dismissive? I have her, Bueckers and Fudd in a three guard rotation at the 1 & 2.

"who is it - Nika or Aubrey? It has to be one of them if Caroline can't start, so my disagreement with you (and others) has been that it seems you would give it to Aubrey. I wouldn't I give it Nika. IMO it's clear as of this moment it's Nika over Aubrey."

Nothing about it is clear. If we make this discussion about these two I think it's clear that Griffin offers tools that none of the other 4 starters possess while Muhl doesn't. It's not a putdown of Muhl's play, it's because she's behind Bueckers and Fudd and I don't think any player in the country is as good or better than those 2.
While 3pt shooting is important so is the ability to score in the paint. Muhl's small edge over Griffin shooting 3's has to be balanced against Griffin's superior inside scoring.

A 3 guard rotation at the 1 & 2 gives all 3 26 minutes a game which can keep them all fresh.

Then what is it that you are actually arguing about regarding Nika?


You are saying equal 26 minutes for Nika, Azzi and Paige when you mention a 3-guard rotation. I that's the case, that means Paige and Nika play 52 minutes which means they are on the court together at times. You think it best that Paige bring up the ball and one of her options on the Wing is Nika? Or on a fastbreak Paige drives to the ft line and looks for Nika to drill a 3? I don't think so. That's not even close to being the same as the other way-- >

IMO it's far far better for Nika to bring up the ball and her 1st pass go to Paige on the Wing than vice-versa. Paige passing to Nika on the Wing is not near as beneficial. Unless you want your pg to jack up shots without a pass like Iowa?

Secondly, Nika is superior to Aubrey if Aubrey was a Wing vs Nika as a pg because she's at least a triple threat to some degree when facing the basket from the outside. We've both agreed that Nika is a better outside shooter from 3, in fact quite a bit better, right? Nika shot 34.9% from 3 equating to 52.35%. While Aubrey shoots 3's at 29.1% which equates to 43.65%. The difference between 52.35 vs 43.65 is not close. Its significant.

Adn historically look at Aubrey’s passing numbers. Her best year passing was in 29 games she had 24 assists with 23 turnovers. So in summary when Aubrey catches a pass o n the perimeter, the Defense immediately closes down the lag with sagging because she doesn’t shoot well. She doesn't pass well so how is her "uniqueness" doing that much good for Paige and Azzi vs Nika who is a better shooter and she is a much better passer? Imo Aubrey in the halfcourt vs quality teams isn't as valuable as a Wing. But she is as a PF. But as a Wing, it's Nika.

I just find our argument has taken an odd turn. You say 26 minutes for the 3 guards. What about Aubrey, Edwards, and Ducharme?
Then throw in Ice who might be more valuable than the rest. How many for her?

I do believe Aubrey is the better pro prospect than Nika however. Aubrey is a darn good player. But her Wing play vs top tier teams with a combo of size and athleticism gets seriously negated because she is competing with other amazing athletes. Vs the lesser athletic and small teams- sure Aubrey over Nika.

 

[Bone Dog]

There is just not a rational argument at this time that validates putting Caroline or Aubrey over Nika in the line-up.

I don’t think Nika is the right contrast here, since Caroline is not a viable pg for a number of reasons, foot speed being the main one. But I also don’t think Caroline’s best contributions are captured by simple stats. She is a clutch performer like Paige and Azzi, and when they were injured two seasons ago, she carried the load at alll the key moments. Last season, nagging injury hindered her, but she still came through in several clutch moments.

When I champion Caroline, I’m not looking at the stats of an injury plagued season or two, but at what she did when the team really needed her and there was no one else. Give Caroline an injury free season and she’ll be an AA candidate. In fact, I think it’s possible that we’ll have 5 AA candidates next season.

Notice I say “an injury free season.” I always assume this since there’s no point imagining anything but the best scenario during the summer. There will be plenty of time later to lament worse eventualities if and when they arise. No need to anticipate them now.

 

[ballerfan]

Paige suffered her first injury brining the ball up court when she was totally exhausted. Yes, she should not have been in the game at that point, but I don't want Paige bringing up the ball up the court when she's even a little bit tired. There is absolutely no need for that. There are plenty of people (think Nika, KK, Ines, et.al.) to bring the ball up the court. If healthy, no one should be totally exhausted at the end of the game.

I understand your concern, but I don’t think that any report of her injury suggested that it was connected to fatigue. It happened at the end of the game at a moment when Paige did not need to be on the court. That was the problem.

There is a need for every player to go all out, to be tired, to be exhausted at times. They’re serious athletes. I think Paige, Nika, and others will be bringing the ball up the court when tired or worse.

 

[Zarathustra]

In December of 2001, after Bueckers and Fudd were out freshman Ducharme took over the scoring load and performed like a veteran player. I don't know how that could be measured. Muhl only takes 3's when she is wide open and can square up and shoot flat-footed. Ducharme can shoot 3's coming off screens or while covered. Again, I don't know how to measure than but I'll wager the results of a poll asking who the better 3pt shooter is wouldn't be close.

Even Nika admitted in a recent interview (about the UCONN vs Ball State Game vs her "little sister") that:
"Hana is a better shooter than I am". Ducharme, IMO, is a three-level threat: outside, mid, and at the basket.
I agree with the above post of Caroline's great success her freshman year. When healthy she carried the team.

 

[hoy-ah!]

Just curious. Why do you think they aren't playing alongside each other if they are sg and sf in a motion offense?

Who is the starting sg and sf, per your response? The question posed is "Who is the starting pg?" In my view, it should be Paige. A healthy Paige v a healthy Nika. Who is the better choice? The best all around player at the position. Intangibles.

 

[#12in21]

This chain of posts remind me of Nika's response in the comical post vs. guards video, when as she was walking along shaking her head saying it's not like I'm 4'-10" or something....

This past season Nika broke Sue Bird's 21 year old season assist record by a good margin while being forced to play more minutes than any one on the team, yet always consistently pushing pace. With teammates in and out of the rotation throughout the season, many times leaving only one great shooting option on the floor with her, she still managed to get double digit assists in 1/3 of her 36 games (another Uconn record), at one point four in a row - the first of them dishing 15 assists (yes, another two records). From the start of the season until it's twilight she led the nation in assists (only falling behind Clark, NCAA POY, during the team bad stretch of games). These are significant accomplishments!

She repeated as BE DPOY even as she was obviously self-restraining her aggression to assure that she avoid foul trouble. She was challenged preseason by Geno and under incredible pressure (as per Geno - second only to Azzi) she not only met the challenge she excelled. She was by all accounts the recognized team leader, floor general and most vocal player. She, self professedly, matured significantly, harnessed her emotions, understood and accepted her needed role(s) to best serve team success. Her scoring increased along with her willingness to attack the basket off the dribble, she reduced her fouls, increased her FT attempts and % all while maximizing her great ability to feed her teammates. Nika made significant jumps, this past season, in her game, attitude and perspective and IMO she is far from hitting her ceiling.

The point is you don't sit this kid because on paper she plays the same position, as possibly, the greatest women's college basketball player ever. They are incredibly complimentary players which will both maximize each others best attributes while playing on the floor together. The discussion really shouldn't center on Nika or Paige, it should be about who are the other three on the floor with them to maximize team success. To me, Azzi and Aaliyah are givens. The discussion should be on the fourth.

Seriously, it's not like she is 4'-10" or something....

 

[oldhusky]

Who is the starting sg and sf, per your response? The question posed is "Who is the starting pg?" In my view, it should be Paige. A healthy Paige v a healthy Nika. Who is the better choice? The best all around player at the position. Intangibles.

This thread would address the more broad and realistic issue if it was who should start 1-3? That is the decision Geno faces, and two of those three are a given, namely Paige and Azzi, and I would argue that we can conclude Azzi is the 2 in all likely combinations. Yes Nika is not a great scoring threat, and Caroline would be very miscast as a PG.

This is Nika vs. Caroline and how they compliment Paige, Azzi, Aaliyah and the other 5th starter. If Nika plays with Paige and Azzi it will be at the 1, and if Caroline starts it will be at the 3. Azzi is the constant at the 2, either Nika at 1 and Paige at the 3, or Paige at the 1 and Caroline at the 3. Paige can be great at any position 1-3.

Nika's lack of scoring is minimized because she is flanked by two All American candidates, remember she was second in the nation in assists without Paige at all and Azzi only healthy for the first 6 games. Remember those games? We were off to a great start and were getting the ball to two great outside shooters (Azzi and Lou) and inside as well. That was a trial run for what this year could be. Nika at the point, a healthy , and Paige instead of Lou.

Obviously Caroline would make three outside shooting threats, and Paige is a great passer, but who makes the rest of the team better? I would argue that Nika would make both Paige and Azzi better as well as our inside players, and of course provide much more on the defensive end. If Caroline starts she is the third option from the perimeter, a very good one, but still third, so is her scoring needed more than Nika's passing to great scorers and what she adds to the defense. I don't think so, but it is a nice problem to have.

 

[meyers7]

Oh sorry, my bad, I was thinking the starting point guard as the title said, Paige is first then Azzi then Nika then Caroline ....

You would start Fudd over the Icon at PG???? And you'd have CFD before Arnold??? CFD isn't even a PG.

 

[Bone Dog]

They are incredibly complimentary players which will both maximize each others best attributes while playing on the floor together.

Yes yes and yes! The irony for Nika is that with Paige and Azzi on the floor, two great shooters, her assist numbers may actually go down. Why? Because they’re both so good at creating their own shot off the dribble and they’re also great passers too. The reality is, Nika will probably increase scoring opportunities for two generational talents, and for all of her teammates, lead an even fiercer defensive effort, drive the team to an NC game, and some people will point to the decline in assists and think she’s had an off year.

It could be like a pool hustler who excels at combo shots. Nika may actually help Paige and Azzi get assists by the way she gets the ball to them at just the right moment.

As you can probably tell, I’m really looking forward to this season!

 

[#12in21]

Yes yes and yes! The irony for Nika is that with Paige and Azzi on the floor, two great shooters, her assist numbers may actually go down. Why? Because they’re both so good at creating their own shot off the dribble and they’re also great passers too. The reality is, Nika will probably increase scoring opportunities for two generational talents, and for all of her teammates, lead an even fiercer defensive effort, drive the team to an NC game, and some people will point to the decline in assists and think she’s had an off year.

It could be like a pool hustler who excels at combo shots. Nika may actually help Paige and Azzi get assists by the way she gets the ball to them at just the right moment.

As you can probably tell, I’m really looking forward to this season!

Freshman season in particular I remember commenting that if they kept numbers for 'hockey assists' (the pass to set up the pass for the assist) she would have piled up a lot if them. With those three as the guard tandem the ball will be flying ( like the good old days) and as you point out, Nika may not always get the assist but her participation in the set will have been instrumental in the basket. For her it has always been about team success, getting the W - if she earns some accolades along the way it's gravy.

 

[hoophuskee]

Who is the starting sg and sf, per your response? The question posed is "Who is the starting pg?" In my view, it should be Paige. A healthy Paige v a healthy Nika. Who is the better choice? The best all around player at the position. Intangibles.

Ealry in the thread I mentioend two options - Below not in order-

PG Paige, SG Azzi SF Caroline

or

PG Nika SG Azzi SF Paige

I'm just not sure about Caroline's health.
=================
Now a question for you- assuming Caroline's health that you can't start her the only other consideration is Aubrey at SF- - - you make a comment "A A healthy Paige v a healthy Nika." is correct. I 100% agree. But a A healthy Paige v a healthy Aubrey at SF - you have to agree that Paige is better than Aubrey at SF. So my question to you is why are you only focused on Paige vs Nika but not considering Paige vs Aubrey at SF, because Paige will still get the ball a ton whether she is pg or sf, correct?

Even if Paige isn't the pg. in halfcourt sets when the teh shotclosk winds down and Nika is in, the ball is going to go into Paige's hands to make a play.

 

[Huskyfan63]

Sure, that'll happen.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I don’t think Nika is the right contrast here, since Caroline is not a viable pg for a number of reasons, foot speed being the main one. But I also don’t think Caroline’s best contributions are captured by simple stats. She is a clutch performer like Paige and Azzi, and when they were injured two seasons ago, she carried the load at alll the key moments. Last season, nagging injury hindered her, but she still came through in several clutch moments.

When I champion Caroline, I’m not looking at the stats of an injury plagued season or two, but at what she did when the team really needed her and there was no one else. Give Caroline an injury free season and she’ll be an AA candidate. In fact, I think it’s possible that we’ll have 5 AA candidates next season.

Notice I say “an injury free season.” I always assume this since there’s no point imagining anything but the best scenario during the summer. There will be plenty of time later to lament worse eventualities if and when they arise. No need to anticipate them now.

Who said anything about point guards though? It's about putting the best 5 players on the court to start the game at at this time that list goes: Aaliya, Azzi, Paige, Nika, and then there are a bunch of question marks. But Nika's starting spot is not in question unless two questions marks make huge leaps and over perform to the point where they are obviously better options than Nika.

Caroline being a clutch performer isn't a great case to put her in the starting rotation though FWIW.

 

[CL82]

My brain keeps getting drawn to parallels to Dan Hurley's team last year. Clearly different in that the men didn't have a traditional point guard -- and they had huge advantages & skills in the paint.

Agree that the one/two punch of Adama Sanogo and Donovan Clingan was difficult, if not impossible, for most teams to match up against. That said, I think the style of basketball Auriemma will play this year will be very analogous to the "four out" style at the men's team employed last year. Yes, the men's team lacked "a true point guard" but it did have multiple facilitators. In that way I think it can be very analogous to this year's woman's team.

I fully expect this team to have outstanding passing in bowl movement, even by UConn standards. The fact that we have excellent three-point shooting at two positions and solid three-point shooting at two more means that the opposing team is going to have to defend all the way out to the 3 point line. That is going to open up the paint for Aaliyah, Ice, and perhaps Amari. It also is going to open up driving lanes for Paige, Azzi and Aubrey.

One thing that I have been thinking about regarding whether page is labeled as the point guard or the two guard, is that perhaps Paige been designated as the shooting guard encourages her to shoot. One of the things Auriemma has struggled with with her is that she is unselfish, almost to a fault. Perhaps, designating her as the shooting guard encourages to have more of a "shoot first" mentality rather than a "pass first" mentality.

As I said in a prior post, I'm not particularly worried about designations. Paige ands Azzi are both smart basketball players who can make the great pass or the great shot. I expect to see a lot from both of them. Nika is a good enough shooter to keep defenders honest by forcing them to cover her. When they do, she'll have the option to pass or drive by them.

I'm looking forward to the season because I think our offense is going to be beautiful basketball. That said, I remain quite sure that "we are doomed".

 

[Rowdy831]

Azzi was 6-17 with four turnovers and one assist in the game UConn needed her most. I think if you asked her she would call that a disappointing performance.

For shooters it isn't always the percentage they shoot but what they do when it can impact the game. Azzi had several open looks in the OSU game that would have turned the game and she missed them all. Those are the shots she remembers and those are the shots that will make her a better player going forward.

She also hit a lot of shots that kept them in the game along the way so it wasn't all bad. I really think the issue with UCONN last year was conditioning of a couple key players. They were fighting injuries all season and you just don't get to practice as hard when you aren't 100%.

 

[Rowdy831]

So not only is she a worst shooter statistically, she’s also a high volume poor shooter? Not really making the case to start Caroline over Nika here.

Nika’s form may be worse than Carolina but this far Carolinas shooting touch hasn’t translated into real college games. Where as Nika also has defense and creating shots for other in her skills set so even if she isn’t shooting well she is still creating points.

There is just not a rational argument at this time that validates putting Caroline or Aubrey over Nika in the line-up.

If you aren't running Nika at the point, then she would be spotting up on the perimeter shooting 3s and that just isn't her game. Her shot is really slow and she is very hesitant to take a lot of shots. For UCONN the point is most important leading the break and in that scenario I would prefer her to push the ball and Azzi and Paige spotting up to take the shots. Anyway you slice it though it is a great problem to have if you are Geno.

 

[Inthepaint]

Don't worry. I knew it was friendly banter. I wouldn't have reacted to it at all if I wasn't tickled by your post. In fact, everything about summer BY posts is (and should be) quite comical. We're all waiting for something real to talk about and have so much energy to devote to these idle speculations. We all have to help each other through this long dry time.

All of the summer discourse lets us vent our anxiety & impatience . Nothing should be meant or taken as insult or disrespect .
IMHO, 3 key factors will determine the lineup & minutes for the upcoming season .
1) How healthy will everybody be?
2) How quickly will our freshmen acclimate themselves & be ready to contribute big time. ( I also include Ines, Ayanna, Amari, Ice in this one)
3) Geno’s mood

 

[Rowdy831]

One of our biggest problems last year was turnovers. ( worst in UCONN history )
With a healthy Paige back and the ball in her hand - that will not continue to be a problem

Too many times last year they just didn't have shooters available so the defenses compressed the key area and UCONN would force the ball inside. When Azzi and Paige are healthy, even Caroline so some degree you can't defend UCONN like that. Injuries often have obvious consequences but they also have some that aren't so obvious.

 

[hoy-ah!]

Ealry in the thread I mentioend two options - Below not in order-

PG Paige, SG Azzi SF Caroline

or

PG Nika SG Azzi SF Paige

I'm just not sure about Caroline's health.
=================
Now a question for you- assuming Caroline's health that you can't start her the only other consideration is Aubrey at SF- - - you make a comment "A A healthy Paige v a healthy Nika." is correct. I 100% agree. But a A healthy Paige v a healthy Aubrey at SF - you have to agree that Paige is better than Aubrey at SF. So my question to you is why are you only focused on Paige vs Nika but not considering Paige vs Aubrey at SF, because Paige will still get the ball a ton whether she is pg or sf, correct?

Even if Paige isn't the pg. in halfcourt sets when the teh shotclosk winds down and Nika is in, the ball is going to go into Paige's hands to make a play.

Paige at SF...how would she do defensively? Rebound? Against Angel Reese or Aneesah Morrow. To me, she'd get beat up. She has good hops, but a more physical SF makes her run and posts her up. Aubrey is a natural SF.; she needs to have confidence in her offense. We've seen what happens when that occurs. (Same with Ayanna. Amari and Ines don't have a problem hoisting it up )

As other posters have stated, it's not really looking at the starting PG, but the best starting 5. Where do we get points, defense, rebounds? Hopefully, with as deep a talent pool on the roster, Geno can mix and match, respective of the opponent and the trust he has in the players.

 

[MooseJaw]

If you have watched Geno over his career, then you know that Nika will be the pg on opening day. It's the way he rolls, plus from her play the previous season she deserves the honor. Is she the best pg on the team, you decide, However it doesn't really matter, does it, cause it's up to da coach. In the case of Nika, sometimes there is that it factor and it seems that Nika has the "it" factor. I can't describe what it is, but I see her make great passes, play great defense, antagonize her opposite player. She makes her teammates better and she is a winner.

 

[Bone Dog]

Who said anything about point guards though? It's about putting the best 5 players on the court to start the game at at this time that list goes: Aaliya, Azzi, Paige, Nika, and then there are a bunch of question marks. But Nika's starting spot is not in question unless two questions marks make huge leaps and over perform to the point where they are obviously better options than Nika.

Caroline being a clutch performer isn't a great case to put her in the starting rotation though FWIW.

I completely agree. Caroline has to be healthy and clutch all the time to earn that fifth starting spot. If she can’t, I’d favor starting Ice or Ayanna. On the other hand, it isn’t a realistic judgment of what Caroline’s capable of to judge her by mere stats from last season. We all know she’s more than that. But she won’t start unless she can put together the season her talents would indicate. Buuuuut…

… If she is healthy and finds her form again, I’d start her before Aubrey Ayanna Ice and Qadence. If I’m thinking who do I want on the floor in the opening minutes of every game, it’s the run-and-gun team, with Nika and Azzi pressing in the first five minutes, and Paige and Caroline waiting to pick off the desperation long pass at mid court, and Aaliyah anchoring the paint in case they break the press. Rotate the rest of the bench in as needed to keep opponents utterly disrupted.

 

[Blond D.]

Nika may not be a better shooter than Caroline but shes not that far behind and shes better at everything else. Nika WILL be starting at PG all season long including the tournaments.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Paige at SF...how would she do defensively? Rebound? Against Angel Reese or Aneesah Morrow. To me, she'd get beat up. She has good hops, but a more physical SF makes her run and posts her up. Aubrey is a natural SF.; she needs to have confidence in her offense. We've seen what happens when that occurs. (Same with Ayanna. Amari and Ines don't have a problem hoisting it up )

As other posters have stated, it's not really looking at the starting PG, but the best starting 5. Where do we get points, defense, rebounds? Hopefully, with as deep a talent pool on the roster, Geno can mix and match, respective of the opponent and the trust he has in the players.

Angel Reese is not a small forward, please be for real. Aneesha Morrow is a power foward is a small forward's body, currently. I wouldn't mind seeing either one having to guard Paige on the other end of the floor though.

 

[hoophuskee]

Paige at SF...how would she do defensively? Rebound? Against Angel Reese or Aneesah Morrow. To me, she'd get beat up. She has good hops, but a more physical SF makes her run and posts her up. Aubrey is a natural SF.; she needs to have confidence in her offense. We've seen what happens when that occurs. (Same with Ayanna. Amari and Ines don't have a problem hoisting it up )

As other posters have stated, it's not really looking at the starting PG, but the best starting 5. Where do we get points, defense, rebounds? Hopefully, with as deep a talent pool on the roster, Geno can mix and match, respective of the opponent and the trust he has in the players.

She'll do what her and CWill did. Who was the sf when UCONN had a lineup of Liv, Evina, Cwill, Paige and Nika. This team went to the Final Four and tier huge issue in the Final Four was Arizona’s guard. Stanford won the tile with Lexi Hull as the SF.


An what are you talking about with LSU? What makes you think Reese and Morrow can play sf and guard Paige?

The point is, the bigger the team, the more UCONN would penalize them with their perimeter play. For example, Maya Moore lived at the PF and who stopped her at the pf? Who would stop Paige?

Please name the SF that you know would shut her down rather than make a general comment?

And I just want o reinforce the team that gets the most rebounds does not necessarily win. It's the team that scores the most points. It's the reason why small teams can win. It's the reason why Stanford won it all with Lexi Hull at SF rather than a 6'4 sf.

What you must take into account is that the teams that will look to pound UCONN inside also have to be bale defend the perimeter extremely well v not only good but potentially extremely super perimeter players. It goes both way - the game isn't all about rebounding.

So I'll ask anyone - please name the SF that will shut down Paige Bueckers? If you can't specifically name one, then what's the big deal? There is a reason why small teams and less athletic teams can beat a team like South Carolina.


This isn’t pro ball in which there is extreme talent at every position. Small teams/even less athletic teams are fine. At the end of the day it’s who scores the most wins. In this case, challenge the opposing team to stop us.