Star Wars VIII [Spoilers] | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Star Wars VIII [Spoilers]

Spartacus said:
Lol. That is an awful take, but it is so eccentric I applaud the author.
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Well actually Mark Hamill said something similar when talking about coming to grips with Johnson's take on Luke Skywalker. He said he created his own backstory for the character that related to his life and reflected on how his generation thought they were going to save the world with Peace and Love, and that there would never be another pointless war after Vietnam.... obviously that didn't come true.

Later in the interview, Hamill discussed how he got back into Luke’s mindset, sussing out his own reasons for why the formerly involved character now lives in exile. The actor found his answers after watching a Beatles documentary and pondering the temporal hippie revolution. “I was hearing Ringo talk about ‘Well, in those days, it was peace and love.’ And how it was a movement that largely didn’t work. I thought about that,” Hamill recalled. “Back in the day, I thought, by the time we get into power, there will be no more wars. Pot will be legal. I believed all that. I had to use that feeling of failure to relate to it.”
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Penfield said:
Well actually Mark Hamill said something similar when talking about coming to grips with Johnson's take on Luke Skywalker. He said he created his own backstory for the character that related to his life and reflected on how his generation thought they were going to save the world with Peace and Love, and that there would never be another pointless war after Vietnam.... obviously that didn't come true.
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That is called maturity---realizing that the struggle always continues because of man's fallen nature---not the Millenial's Revenge.
 
It also means that intentions are nice but results matter.

The Jedi claim to have been the agents of peace for a millennim but in reality they were celebrities in a small part of galactic society while the rest was the wild west or worse.

Their actions led to some of the worst suffering and according to Luke, there is no way to know if they were a net positive.
 
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"If we take the widest and wisest view of a Cause, there is no such thing as a Lost Cause because there is no such thing as a Gained Cause. We fight for lost causes because we know that our defeat and dismay may be the preface to our successors’ victory, though that victory itself will be temporary; we fight rather to keep something alive than in the expectation that anything will triumph."

T.S. Elliot
 
Spartacus said:
That is called maturity---realizing that the struggle always continues because of man's fallen nature---not the Millenial's Revenge.
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yeah. When Generation Z gets their Star Wars movie it will be a rebuke of the dumb Millennials thinking everything was all about them being special snowflakes or whatever, and how they didn't fix anything either.
 
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Penfield said:
how high were you when you saw the prequels?
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I was very high and very meh about the prequels when I first saw them. But I went through all 7 movies in the last 5 weeks again in anticipation of TLJ and stand by my statement. Theyve grown on me. Especially in juxtaposition of the mess we get now.
 
August_West said:
I was very high and very meh about the prequels when I first saw them. But I went through all 7 movies in the last 5 weeks again in anticipation of TLJ and stand by my statement. Theyve grown on me. Especially in juxtaposition of the mess we get now.
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Attack of the Clones is unredeemable. Obi-Wan goes to visit an alien that owns a 50's style diner, who has a terrible attempt of a brooklyn accent, and has extra arms which seem to exist soley to hold up his pants or scratch his butt. Oh and his Droid is named FL-O. That doesn't even get into the insanely stupid plot or the terrible acting
 
Penfield said:
Attack of the Clones is unredeemable. Obi-Wan goes to visit an alien that owns a 50's style diner, who has a terrible attempt of a brooklyn accent, and has extra arms which seem to exist soley to hold up his pants or scratch his butt.
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LOVE Dex. Love his moustache

 
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tzznandrew said:
I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the movie, usually a good thing. I'm coming around on it, but need to see it again. I thought this was a good take:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-last-jedi-killed-my-childhood-and-thats-exactly-wh-1821429836
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So this is basically where I've come down. I like what Rian Johnson did. I like the big ideas in this movie even if he stumbled a bit in the execution.

I think the characters, acting, special effects, practical effects and attention to details in this trilogy have been great.

What I don't care for as much is just how this story was set up and where we stand after 2 movies. They did a pretty bad job of explaining who the First Order and Resistance are. What the New Republic is like. I get that they didn't want to repeat the issues of the prequels but we need a little explanation here.

There is this entire Galaxy to play with and it feels like all the action is happening in close proximity to each other over the course of about a week. In the OT they never really showed this but it felt more like there was a huge war being faught across the Galaxy. I liked the idea that we didn't see all of our heroes journeys. The prequels despite their issues made the Galaxy feel even bigger. This trilogy makes it feel small. It is still mind boggling that the Resistance could really be down to a hand full of people and one ship. Seriously? There were no other bases out there? Is the First Order really big enough to take over the Galaxy the way the empire did? Is this really going to be resolved in one movie?What we are left with now is essentially the rebels vs the empire again.

I think I would have enjoyed both movies a little more if they had just put more thought into what had happened over the past 30 years and allowed some time to pass between episodes.
 
Penfield said:
I think I would have enjoyed both movies a little more if they had just put more thought into what had happened over the past 30 years and allowed some time to pass between episodes.
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Rian Johnson was sort of handcuffed, though, with the way Abrams ended TFA. How could he possibly avoid having Luke and Rey start together. Which means he had to start where it ended.
 
This video pretty much sums up how I feel about this film in terms of execution. He's kinder to the film than I am, but I think he sums up some of the issues pretty well.

 
tzznandrew said:
Rian Johnson was sort of handcuffed, though, with the way Abrams ended TFA. How could he possibly avoid having Luke and Rey start together. Which means he had to start where it ended.
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Yeah totally agree. I think he also got handcuffed by the whole Luke is missing thing.

Mark Hamill has expressed his displeasure with the way Luke was handled in the two movies. With TLJ it seemed to stem from his belief that Luke wouldn't just give up on his family and the Jedi Order. With TFA he said he had gone to JJ and said he really felt that Luke would have sensed his friends were in danger, and would have gone to help them. Even if he didn't make it in time he would have tried. I am not sure why JJ made the decision he did but he did. I think he likes mysteries, he just doesn't like to give answers.

So Rian was saying he had to come up with a story that explained why Luke had secluded himself on an island, and why he wouldn't have felt that Han was in trouble. I think he did ok based on what he had to work with.

Speaking of JJ and mysteries, people are saying that he and Lawrence Kasden had decided not to make any decisions about Rey's parentage. Rian was free to make that decision. I was kinda hoping she wasn't part of some lineage so I am happy with that, but I can understand why some people felt the way TFA focused on the question meant it must have been important. I have a feeling Snoke was a similar situation.

The trilogy definitely could have used a better framework before these guys started writing scripts for each episode, but let's not kid ourselves, this is exactly how the OT was made too.
 
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Penfield said:
The trilogy definitely could have used a better framework before these guys started writing scripts for each episode, but let's not kid ourselves, this is exactly how the OT was made too.
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Wait, you mean Lucas didn't know Leia and Luke were siblings when they made out?

But, yeah, you nailed it here.
 
I finally saw TLJ last night. I'm still absorbing it, but overall I thought it was good. I liked the Ren-Rey connection and how it developed over the course of the movie. I agree that the "can you hear me now" joke with Hux was cheesy but otherwise I liked the humor scattered in. Snoke's fall was definitely a surprise and I would have enjoyed getting into the backstory of his connection to the first order, so I was a little disappointed that he was essentially glossed over. Didn't really care about the Phasma death. Canto Bight was disappointing - possibly the most vanilla world in the Star Wars multiverse. I would have been fine without the Leia spacewalk. My other impressions:
  • This furthers Darth Sideous's legend as the most badass Sith ever - from the creation of the empire to his prowess in the field of battle. Snoke was playing checkers. Sideous invented chess.
  • I enjoyed Rogue One, but this movie made me appreciate it even more. The character development was worlds better among other things.
  • I'm worried that the Leia situation is going to tarnish episode 9, whether it be CGI or a bad casting decision. All we really know about Ep 9 right now is Rey vs Ren and some final battle of FO vs resistance. I hope they can add some depth to the final chapter. What path do the three episodes take us to - what were we building toward? Just don't let it drill down to a "final battle between the resistance and FO while Rey and Ren duel". If that's the best they can do with this trilogy, crap.
 
huskypantz said:
  • I'm worried that the Leia situation is going to tarnish episode 9, whether it be CGI or a bad casting decision. All we really know about Ep 9 right now is Rey vs Ren and some final battle of FO vs resistance. I hope they can add some depth to the final chapter. What path do the three episodes take us to - what were we building toward? Just don't let it drill down to a "final battle between the resistance and FO while Rey and Ren duel". If that's the best they can do with this trilogy, crap.
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Carrie Fisher's family has given Disney permission to use any footage they filmed while making the two movies to use if needed in episode IX, but it really sounds like they will not be doing that. I suspect the movie will either acknowledge her passing in the crawl, or will start with a funeral or something.

This is another situation where Johnson took the more difficult path instead of the easy one. They could have simply let her die when the bridge got blown up, but he said he wanted to honor the work she did in her final role. In the end I am glad they kept her in the movie, especially since I think the Luke and Leia scene was important for the fans to get.
 
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So I just saw TLJ tonight and I don't know how I feel about it. I went in expecting a ESB type movie where they basically build the plot and story line. I personally find Empire to be a dull movie but I appreciate all that it does for the original trilogy. I left TLJ unsure what it really did. It built some story lines but added unneeded ones too. The Rose character had no need. What's going to happen when she heals and is all into Finn yet he and Rey clearly have some connection.

I'm also not buying fully that Rey's parents were nobodies. Kylo says that to her when he's trying to persuade her to join him and is playing on her emotions. I still believe that her true background is yet to be revealed. If I'm wrong, and this was how they revealed her parents, I'll be upset. This was a major piece of her backstory and it was just brushed aside as a mention. Hopefully there's more and Kylo was lying to her about her parents.

The one thing I really liked about the movie was the musical score. The way they wove in all of the classic themes was awesome. The best was when Luke appeared to Leia. They played the Luke and Leia song from ROTJ and then when he handed her the Star Wars equivalent of fuzzy car dice that belonged to Han, they transitioned into the Leia/Han love theme. It's was awesome. Finally, the score for the final scene with Luke dying and watching the sun (s) and playing that stirring music like they did in ANH with Luke staring at the setting sun on Tattoine was hair raising.

So what does this mean? I don't know. Is it bad that the part of the movie I liked the best was the musical score? Maybe? I guess I kinda feel lost on where I stand on the movie. Some parts were powerful and some were crap. The whole casino bit and Benicio Del Torro bit was two prequelish for me. The humor also seemed forced at times. The fact that Yoda made a joke as his first line when he appeared to Luke really took away from how powerful that scene could have been IMO.

I also agree that Carrie's passing has left them with a major issue. From what I've read, she was the focus of the final movie. Now I don't know what they do. Two more years of waiting!!
 
Should have also added that since the Resistance is down to about 10 people, maybe in the final movie they can bring back Wedge. Besides him being one of my favorite characters, I'd love to see him and Poe fly side by side in whatever the final epic battle will be.

EDIT: Just looked him up to see how old he is (70) and didn't realize that Denis Lawson, the actor who played Wedge, is Ewan McGregor's uncle.
 
I saw it today. Agree w/ most of what I've seen posted here. Rey/Ren/Luke dynamic made the film worth watching. The cruiser jumping to lightspeed and tearing apart the First Order fleet was spectacular! Many of the minor characters and subplots seemed unnecessary and pointless. The First Order thwarting everything the resistance tried, usually within about 30 seconds, was frustrating. The humor was often misplaced and off putting. Some of it was bizarrely anachronistic for late 20th or early 21st century earth. Can you hear me now? and yo momma jokes? Really? That was just terrible. This film went different directions than I expected and I have no idea where Episode IX is gonna go.
 
I'll probably have several questions as I think about the movie, but here's one I'm curious about. Did Kylo Ren cut down Snoke to save Rey, or to usurp power? Or both? When it first happened I thought it was purely to save Rey, but as the rest of the movie transpired it became more cloudy.

Unrelated, but I was digging those imperial guards in red armor. They had something similar in the original trilogy, but those guys just kind of stood around. In this one they were fairly bad ass. They were like intergalactic samurai warriors.
 
nwhoopfan said:
I'll probably have several questions as I think about the movie, but here's one I'm curious about. Did Kylo Ren cut down Snoke to save Rey, or to usurp power? Or both? When it first happened I thought it was purely to save Rey, but as the rest of the movie transpired it became more cloudy.

Unrelated, but I was digging those imperial guards in red armor. They had something similar in the original trilogy, but those guys just kind of stood around. In this one they were fairly bad ass. They were like intergalactic samurai warriors.
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I think he did it to take over. Well, it was more like a "I'm tired of my dad yelling at me, so I am going to try and fight him" moment. I like the way he did Snoke in, but that should have been in the next film in my opinion. It's just another thing that I didn't like about it.
 
nwhoopfan said:
I'll probably have several questions as I think about the movie, but here's one I'm curious about. Did Kylo Ren cut down Snoke to save Rey, or to usurp power? Or both? When it first happened I thought it was purely to save Rey, but as the rest of the movie transpired it became more cloudy.

Unrelated, but I was digging those imperial guards in red armor. They had something similar in the original trilogy, but those guys just kind of stood around. In this one they were fairly bad ass. They were like intergalactic samurai warriors.
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If you ever get into the novels, the Sith rule of two explains his act. There is a Sith master and apprentice. The role of the apprentice is to someday rise up and kill their master, then adopt their own apprentice. So it's kind of implied, but that's my take.

The imperial guard is another group that makes more sense if you follow the novels (canon or legends). The force is present everywhere and very strong in some (Luke, Ren, Rey) but only moderately so in others (Leia) and minimal in the rest. The strongest force users could become Jedi or Sith if properly trained (after being apprentices and padawans). But there are many with higher force sensitivity who aren't powerful enough to get to that level but are still formidable. The imperial guard are likely a group of force-sensitive soldiers who can enhance their combat skills but can't necessarily do things like shoot force lightning, move objects, read thoughts etc. So my guess is that Snoke's guard were force sensitive soldiers - hence the challenge they presented Rey and Ren. Another note of a force sensitive individual was the kid on Canto Bight who moved the broom to his hand at the end of the movie. Maybe a future padawan/jedi recruit.....
 
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