Stanford Postgame Thread

[BBallF]

While I agree with many of the points, I'm not sure I agree with the comparison to the men, at least not if we're talking professional rather than NCAA men. At the NBA level, they have worked hard to adjust officiating to keep some freedom of movement and promote offense.

True, they just walked some of that back this year by calling fewer defensive fouls on the perimeter from shooting players jumping into their defenders. But overall, they understand that the maximum physicality game, a la the 1990s into early 2000s, is not something to be encouraged. In fact both the NBA and WNBA went another level beyond and added a defensive 3 second rule to open up the lane.

NCAA ball seems behind the times, both compared to the NBA/WNBA and often international ball. It makes for a less entertaining product that also doesn't do as good a job preparing its top players for professional ball.

I was only talking about the men's NCAA. Watch tonight's games with a pencil and paper and make a check mark for every foul or violation not called. It's almost collegiate AAU. Also read the Jay Bilas article in which he exhorts the NCAA for change on these very issues. Apparently a few years ago they decided to enforce the freedom of movement principle. That lasted only a short while. Now we are back to dribble drive and chuck up the 3s offenses because you can't cut without putting yourself in harm's way. The NBA is actually purer basketball than college now, which speaks volumes about the depths to which the game has plummeted. I'm saying that the women's game is on the same conveyor belt although it is going slower.

 

[The deacon]

+/- is a stat that has some meaning but can be very misleading. Many factors can affect a +/- such as what teammates were on the floor, what opponents were on the floor, how well the teams shooting etc. I think Nika’s value is one of the intangibles - her affect on her teammates when she is in the game and when she isn’t - it fires them up.

I would also like to point out that Liv tapped a few rebounds to teammates that resulted in points on the board.

one final note, I am almost finished with my game plan for Stanford and expect to complete my game plan for SC sometime Monday after watching film tomorrow night.

I agree wholeheartedly, Yorkeez4. My reason for noting the +/- from last night wasn't a subjective judgment on its worth, rather just to correct numbers that another poster had offered up.

Good luck with your game plans. I look forward to studying them both.

 

[Carnac]

I'm I going blind or did I just miss all your more recent posts. As I said to Oldude: I appreciated all of your comments and especially pre-game data--it helped a lot. Thank you for a great season. My feeling is; no matter the outcome of tomorrow night this has been a tremendous season. Think of all the close close close games that prepped Uconn for the Cardinal moment!! To me that game was the National!! Thanks Carnac!

My pleasure, thank you. I have no idea how the game is going to go tomorrow. I apologize for under estimating this team. I didn't say so in open forum, but I didn't think they would beat Stanford. If they beat Stanford, They can beat SC. 6-7 weeks ago when Geno was down to 7 players, and still beating BE teams by double digits,

I thought there was no way UConn would make the final four, but they did. Then I figured, OK there's no way they're going to beat 1 seed Stanford, but they did. OK, now I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I believe.

South Carolina lost two games this season. They're not invincible. They can lose tomorrow, but UConn will have to TAKE the game. SC will not give it to them or beat themselves like we almost did against Stanford with multiple unforced turnovers late in the game.

 

[Conndog]

Another way of looking at it is turning your point around.

We have 8 available starting, quality players...and one who was most responsible.
for turning around the.season at its lowest point, hardly plays.

Yeah, it would be great to have the 9th, but the eight semi and true stars may be quite enough.

Hope that person mentioned as hardly plays- Ducharme- gets a chance.

 

[JordyG]

I was very upset with all the lay-ups Brink got. I kept screaming --someone drop down low and help out. Stupid me, I forgot this was the CARDINALS and they are smart enough to know how to slip a guard in for that easy layup--
Like Muffet and all good coaches--Stamford went after the Freshmen for foul shooting. It back fired. Three Cheers for all the foul shooters especially the new kid on the block--FUDD!!!!

Correct. That "slip' play is a staple in Tara's chin offense as the player "slips" off the screen. UConn's offense, in taking away the split screens and Stanford's outside shot left little for Tara. You can't take away everything, and Tara was really left with Haley and others playing one on one, and their low assist total showed its effect. Tara also likes to place Brink on the weak side pinch post. But she was well aware that Geno knew that, so she often went strong side for Brink to dribble drive to the hoop. Liv did a nice job taking away her shot forcing her to drive. IMO Tara got out coached. Tara never altered her offense to take advantage of the size mismatches she had all over the court. She rarely if at all ran that "punch" play in the offense, placing a wing or a guard on the block against a smaller UConn player out of the chin offense.

 

[SallyH]

Not when UConn was shooting three’s or short jumpers. I thought they gave too much room to Westbrook and CW, as a matter of fact, I remember TV yelling at them to keep their hands up in their faces. They defended Paige well, but she still managed 14 points. Both girls are tall and quick, they will learn though. Felt bad for them after they ran off the court in tears.

I agree with "keep your hands up" Beyonce runs through my head.

 

[mudblood]

Will this game be re-broadcast? I lost cable/power at the beginning of the third quarter, some idiot took out a pole in a neighboring town

It’s available for streaming on demand on watch ESPN

 

[jazz]

i will double check that deacon. the real numbers are that NM played well, played well all year and obviously played well last night.

I watched the game a second time and want to give some props to deacon for his observations, but those observations also come with a HUGE caveat. In addition, a second observation made by Deacon is just flat wrong.

NM’s playing time and point differential:

In at 4:39 in Q1 with score at 4-2. Stanford at the line and makes one, score at 4-3 and this is when I count +/- points with NM in the game. For me the FT does not count as time NM was in the game since it was earned when she was not in the game and the clock was not moving when scored. NM out of the game at 9:20 in Q2. Score 12-9. Uconn plus 2 with NM in the game.

NM in the game at 1:01 of Q2 score 25-26 Stanford. NM scores our only points before half to give us a 27-26 lead. Total uconn plus 4 when NM was in the game.

NM in the game at 4:15 of Q3, score was 34-31 Uconn. NM stays in until 3:13 in Q4, score 49-42 Uconn. WE had some of our best scoring during these 11 minutes that NM was in the game. Total Uconn up 6 pts with NM in the game.

The part I missed was the 11 seconds NM was in the game from 1:26 to 1:15 left in Q4. In these 11 seconds, EW gave up an easy layup to Jones, then was involved in the out of bounds TO that gave the ball back to Stanford, then gave up position to Jones for the foul and another 2 points which brought NM’s +/- down to 2 points. So, I stand corrected and I do apologise. But if not for the abysmal play by EW in those 11 seconds, uconn would be +/- 6 points or more when NM was in the game.

Keep in mind it is also a disadvantage from a point differential point of view to be put in the game when the other team has the ball! Too bad GA didn’t substitute NM in for EW for those 11 minutes because surely they could not be any worse.

I wrote my thoughts on EW’s play at the end of the game in my original post, but decided to delete most of it in the spirit of the big win. I originally said that in the last 2 minutes or so, EW was part of 3 TOs, gave up four easy points and in general there are times she is just a bit too nonchalant for my taste. I've said this before during th season, EW is plagued at times, by what I call WTF moments. However, as I stated before, she did hit some big shots for us and had 6 rebounds.

Now it is true NM didn’t have any assists, which I left out of my original post. She should have had one with a nice pass into EW but she fumbled the pass and didnt get off an easy layup. I also left out her steal and 2 TOs, both of which came when she scrapped/hustled for rebounds against bigger players – I can’t see penalising her for that. For full disclosure, she had 2 fouls.

Now Deacon, you also said that there were 'numerous instances in which players went by her. That they shot badly shouldn't be to Nika's credit.' This is just flat wrong and cannot be a simple oversight on your part. Why would you say something so blantantly false??

NM was beat 3 times, giving up a total of 4 points…I originally thought it was only 2 points. She was helped by ONO on the one miss although NM had recovered to some degree to also harass the shooter. The other two were made shots. So where does the 'they shot badly shouldn't be to Nika's credit' comment coming from?? Where is the 'numerous instances' coming from?

EW on the other hand was beat over half a dozen times and even PB got beat several times. Getting beat three times for 4 points does not equate to ‘numerous’ but instead equates to an excellent defensive performance as you would expect from the BE defensive player of the year. There is the reason why NM was substituted in for defensive purposes at the end of the game. GA just subbed out the wrong player!

 

[jazz]

Not sure where you get the "outscored the Stanford by 6 points..." . I am a huge Nika fan, and I feel she was vital to our success last night. But the box score shows Nika as a +1. Paige is a +12, AE a +4, and so on and so forth. CD was listed as -4. So I think @The deacon has the numbers correct, even if he seems to downplay Nika's overall effectiveness. I think she does things that don't show up in the +/- that are hard to evaluate numerically.

see my additonal post. this is skewed by 11 seconds at the end of the game when EW decided to fall asleep on the team.

 

[DefenseBB]

Tara has had a thing with geno ever since KLS signed here. She stopped the UConn-Stanford series and has never renewed it. That’s on her. For the good of basketball especially since they both are good she should stop ducking UConn and renew the series that the fans would love to see again.

This is not necessarily solely directed at Huskies29 but to many of the "anti-Tara" posts on this thread. I have watched EVERY pregame presser, the full post game presser and will state that Tara did NOT disrespect UConn by inferring that they "lost the game". Every quote on this thread is being taken out of context. Just like Wes Moore stated how physical UConn was, just like Terin Morin stated how physical UConn was, Tara also noted it and not in a negative posture. Geno and Tara have both said they have a good relationship. Geno and Tara were both asked about the series and if it would continue and Geno, in his usual Philly snark, said "well we thought they were going to come play us that next year...." with a wry smile. Tara meanwhile did say in referring to the relationship and the series that #1. Geno had his tweaks with Pat and Muffet but that she had a good relationship with Geno and that playing games in the future is an option. Many teams discontinue schedules for any number of reasons. I don't think losing Katie Lou was the catalyst for the series not to be renewed as Tara was well aware of KLS interest in UConn as Geno had also recruited Karlie quite heavily. They also both heavily recruited Haley Jones.

I would also say that yes, Stanford did miss many uncontested shots-was it nerves? Was it playing UConn in a big game? Was it a rushed offense where they couldn't pass as cleanly as they were used to? Probably a bit of everything. Likewise, UConn committing 20 turnovers, many unforced was a key catalyst for keeping Stanford alive in the game. Stop looking for villains when none exist. Congrats to the team for winning. Style points don't count!

 

[fomalhaut]

As much as I appreciate the value Nika brings as an emotional player, the reality is that, if you were to check the Huskies' season, game by game, you would note that Nika is regularly is either last or nearly last on the team in +/-

I haven't checked the whole season, but Muhl has been very good in the NCAA tournament:

NC State: +8 in 8:27 (behind only Westbrook's +9 in 15:01)
Indiana: +5 in 10:31 (comparable to the starters if prorated over 30+ minutes); Ducharme was even better than Muhl
UCF: +7 in 6:07 (behind only Juhasz's +12 in 19:28)
Stanford: +1 in 17:31 (only Bueckers was exceptional at +12; the players who played more substantial minutes were +3 or +4)

That's two of the five tournament games where she was, per minute, the best +/- player on the team.

 

[hoophuskee]

As I noted previously, Jazz, the Huskies were up by a single point during Nika's court time, not 6 points. Only Caroline's -4 in her few minutes was lower.

As much as I appreciate the value Nika brings as an emotional player, the reality is that, if you were to check the Huskies' season, game by game, you would note that Nika is regularly is either last or nearly last on the team in +/-.
I haven't been bringing that up because of all the Nika fans here, but since you brought it up, I thought I should note the real numbers.

The +/- is a general tool. Not anything etched in stone.

I use it to counter those that want a deep bench. I gave an example of Jada Boyd for NC State who was -4 during regulation.

Also- for all those people that say bench bench bench - look at what Tara did with Kiki Iriafen- she came in for one minute got na ORebound then turned the ball over then allowed Liv to get a point black shot and fouled her in which the 2 point game in the 4th quarter went to 5.

You don’t hear about those things when posters complain about "play the bench more and more" because of for example ":fresh legs." Well how did Kiki's fresh ;legs help her vs Liv? It didn't. Using your bench no matter for how many minutes can be a detriment.

 

[jazz]

I haven't checked the whole season, but Muhl has been very good in the NCAA tournament:

NC State: +8 in 8:27 (behind only Westbrook's +9 in 15:01)
Indiana: +5 in 10:31 (comparable to the starters if prorated over 30+ minutes); Ducharme was even better than Muhl
UCF: +7 in 6:07 (behind only Juhasz's +12 in 19:28)
Stanford: +1 in 17:31 (only Bueckers was exceptional at +12; the players who played more substantial minutes were +3 or +4)

That's two of the five tournament games where she was, per minute, the best +/- player on the team.

nm would have been +6 at minumum if EW didnt give up 4 easy points and a TO when NM was in on defensive for 11 secs in the late 4th

 

[hoopsfan22]

I'm not sure if brown's was a complaint but what I can't agree with that this game "was a clunker" from another poster. I guess both teams which have super defense is considered a clunker?

I found it fascinating how they were able to defend Paige so well yet we were during them on the glass more than you'd expect.

I'll take credit for calling it a clunker, because that's what it was, and anyone that disagrees lives on another planet. What else do you call a game that is 39-37 after three quarters?

 

[Bama fan]

nm would have been +6 at minumum if EW didnt give up 4 easy points and a TO when NM was in on defensive for 11 secs in the late 4th

But in reality , she was +1. The deacon was right, and you were wrong. I love Nika, and as I said I believe she is a turbocharger for the team. This horse is so dead it is already glue, my friend.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'll take credit for calling it a clunker, because that's what it was, and anyone that disagrees lives on another planet. What else do you call a game that is 39-37 after three quarters?

Great defense.

If you can't understand that both teams were playing it and only think offense counts I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Papa33]

That was no surprise, they do not like each other. Goes back many years. TV never appreciated Geno dominating a womens game, she’s cordial but where UConn is concerned, down right snotty. TV as the Olympic team head coach, refused to give Lobo, the reigning NPOY, any significant PT, at the 96 Olympics, and don’t think Geno doesn’t remember that.

I distinctly remember Tara's refusal to acknowledge Rebecca's bball talents by playing her during the olympics. My impression was that Tara and Pat S saw Geno as a party crasher into women's basketball, and he was both brash and, worse still, successful. Back then those two were THE reigning coaches.

 

[BlueSkyGLW]

I'll take credit for calling it a clunker, because that's what it was, and anyone that disagrees lives on another planet. What else do you call a game that is 39-37 after three quarters?

Let's see:

Good defensive performance by both teams = clunker offensive game

Good offensive performance by both teams = clunker defensive game

If one is good in one and the other not = game is a rout, clunker for the loser

If that is what you mean, I agree with you.....but I must say that there is quite a bit of beauty in all three and I can appreciate them all.

 

[WLT1717]

Let‘s not miss the fact that Evina and Nika had 14 rebounds between them. In a game where every possession counted, having two guards pull down 14 boards was monumental in getting the ball in UConn’s hands and limiting second chance points for Stanford.

Very good observation!

 

[HuskyNan]

It’s available for streaming on demand on watch ESPN

It’s on YouTube

 

[WLT1717]

Tara is usually very classy. But when she won last season, her post game interview with Holly Rowe was mostly critical of her team's performance despite the victory. She is a perfectionist who won't settle for mediocrity.

She is a straight shooter and loves her players but is able to be objective; her guards have it their all but we’re not up to the test tonight, and she said as much. Always impressed by her. I was surprised none of the Stanford seniors appeared at the presser - but guess they were not up for it.

 

[HopJim]

While 99% of thoughts have been commented on:
-Surprised the past two games Geno couldn't have figured out how to stop the drives to the basket. 1-2 more layups or fouls could have turned this game. In Geno we trust - it worked out.
-Always fun to second guess. There are always multiple comments about how Geno should sub more but in watching the game 3x, Stanford seemed to be better served if they had kept Jones and Brink in the game more. Fouls played a role - give UConn credit for keeping Brink under control.
-Brink was a much better player than anticipated. Will be one of few that I go out of my way to watch next year.
-One of the better set of announcers of any game I have watched this year. Seemed totally neutral, even with Rebecca a UConn alum.

 

[Zanzman]

Another way of looking at it is turning your point around.

We have 8 available starting, quality players...and one who was most responsible.
for turning around the.season at its lowest point, hardly plays.

Yeah, it would be great to have the 9th, but the eight semi and true stars may be quite enough.

great observation. he finally trusted his bench...or the fouls gave him no choice and then you can see what a better rested team can do with the 'little things' and 'hustle plays' that help you win, not to mention, who is to say that a better rested team scores better in the 4th and more composed at the FT line. Make better decisions as well although one could certainly argue that the decision making wasnt there at the end.

I'll take credit for calling it a clunker, because that's what it was, and anyone that disagrees lives on another planet. What else do you call a game that is 39-37 after three quarters?

any game you win in the final four is a thing of beauty

 

[npignatjr]

My pleasure, thank you. I have no idea how the game is going to go tomorrow. I apologize for under estimating this team. I didn't say so in open forum, but I didn't think they would beat Stanford. If they beat Stanford, They can beat SC. 6-7 weeks ago when Geno was down to 7 players, and still beating BE teams by double digits,

I thought there was no way UConn would make the final four, but they did. Then I figured, OK there's no way they're going to beat 1 seed Stanford, but they did. OK, now I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I believe.

South Carolina lost two games this season. They're not invincible. They can lose tomorrow, but UConn will have to TAKE the game. SC will not give it to them or beat themselves like we almost did against Stanford with multiple unforced turnovers late in the game.

South Carolina lost 2 games, when healthy to 2 teams both only at best fair.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

After everything this team has gone through this year. Who would have thought this possible three months ago. Who would have thought UConn would suddenly become a great FT team. Happy weekend to you all.

me. i did. 5 months, 4 months, 3 months, 2 months ago, and this morning, at the rest room on the i95. u can look it up.
lotsa folks wearing husky stuff everrwhere.