St. John's Post Game Thread

[Chasm64]

At this point it seems they can lose to anyone or beat anyone. Inconsistent and frustrating.

 

[Deepster]

Loser mentality. I want to play them tomorrow. Stop with the lazy turnovers, and fumbling the ball. Stop smacking people on rebounds. Get out run and make open shots. Tall task but I absolutely want to play them

There’s being optimistic and there’s being ignorant. They walked over us twice and didn’t break a sweat yesterday. They won by 14 and really did nothing statistically well against us.

Get out on the run? We can’t even inbound the ball against them. LOL. They’re a poison matchup for this years team.

 

[cp176]

In this game, we were physically and mentally pounded at every position on the floor. Simply men against boys. It is the first time that it really looked to me as though they were intimidated down the stretch. I don’t know what the stats say but it looked to me as though the 50/50 balls went to the Johnie’s by a long shot. People can criticize Pitino all they want to, but the reality is that not only is he one of the best to ever coach the game, he still gets it. I like Hurley a great deal, but constantly hearing that he is the best coach in the country is tiring to me. Sounds good I guess, but I’ll always believe that the mark of a great coach is based on whether and how much your players improve during the season. I don’t know who on this roster will be here next year but as it has been said more than once here, 21,22,23 year old men with ability tend to be better than boys who have just graduated from high school.

 

[Stinger92860]

We outrebounded them 39-36. But they got rebounds and putbacks. We always miss a ton of drives and layups. They made 30 fg we made 26. FT’s were almost even. They made 2 more 3’s than we did. Solo annd Alex only ones to make an 3. and don’t forget that 8 point play.

the 8 point play was a beauty. Samson finally decided to box and commits a bad foul. Add in the poor D on both ends and that’s us on film from the D side.

 

[djct1999]

Can’t blame him!

Didn’t Hurley say once the first thing he looks at in a recruit is his parents. I can’t blame how he is feeling, but surely keep it off social media. Hard to imagine this has a Cinderella ending.

 

[TRest]

Carnesecca won 5 Big East regular season titles, 2 Big East tournaments and was 526-200 overall at St. John's. He was 294-115 overall while coaching St. John's in the Big East and 127-69 in Big East play. That was back when the Big East was the premier conference in the country. He didn't have a ton of NCAA tournament success but he goes all the way back to the NIT days and had success before the NCAA tournament became the thing. He was excellent at St. John's.

I’m talking about St. John’s overall. Really good at the founding of the BE (I was there) which was 45 years ago.

 

[ucp990411]

I disagree. The Johnies were excellent under Louis Carnesecca. They were revived under Mike Jarvis. Then things went sideways. They suffered after Jarvis left but the program and were average to poor. Conference realignment affected all Big East programs no matter where they ended up.

They were a good program under Carnesecca. They made one final four and were in contention most years for the Big East title. Does that make them excellent? Then Satan brought them back for a few years but that didn’t last.

 

[ucp990411]

I was aware that we may have outrebounded them. That’s why I said I didn’t know the stats and said they got the important rebounds. They did. Whenever they missed and we were poised to grab a board and close the gap, they got it. They didn’t give up virtually any key boards. They were fighting and whenever we had a slight bit of momentum their intensity on the boards and on defense went way up. When it mattered, they were tougher.

Diarra was probably our leading rebounder or close to it. Those weren’t rebounds in the trenches. They were killing us right under the rim. Their offensive rebounding was very fruitful. We got junk offensive boards when missing 3 bunnies in a row.

They also turned us over a lot when we got key defensive rebounds. We just gave the ball right back without taking a shot.

Good point. We had five offensive rebounds in one possession and ended up not scoring

 

[freshler40]

Team gets zero off its defense, no easy baskets. And, offensively play so damn slow.

and Bench aside from Reed. We always dribble into our offense.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Why is Stewart so timid on offense in the last couple games? Zero shots today. He has to be more aggressive on offense.

Stewart, Ross and Mahaney are all timid and that is our entire bench

 

[djct1999]

In this game, we were physically and mentally pounded at every position on the floor. Simply men against boys. It is the first time that it really looked to me as though they were intimidated down the stretch. I don’t know what the stats say but it looked to me as though the 50/50 balls went to the Johnie’s by a long shot. People can criticize Pitino all they want to, but the reality is that not only is he one of the best to ever coach the game, he still gets it. I like Hurley a great deal, but constantly hearing that he is the best coach in the country is tiring to me. Sounds good I guess, but I’ll always believe that the mark of a great coach is based on whether and how much your players improve during the season. I don’t know who on this roster will be here next year but as it has been said more than once here, 21,22,23 year old men with ability tend to be better than boys who have just graduated from high school.

And this trashing of Hurley is tiresome to me. We have spoken ad nauseum now on how it was huge eval miss. That’s indisputable. Clearly it was. that happens everywhere. But after two straight titles and sending many kids to rhe next level, it actually is understandable. The staff has to adjust, and I am confident they will. When Hurley said he was the best coach, that was the Jersey City fighter in him at a time where he was worked up. I love that about him. The last two years alone were legendary and what he and the staff accomplished in that run will put him in the hall of fame someday.
As for development, this is another topic on the board that is beaten to death. There is a difference between gelling as a team and developing. Khadary Richmond hasn’t developed at St. John’s. he is the exact same player we have seen for years. But Samson Johnson has. Remeber him as a freshmen? Solo Ball has. Hassan Diarra has. Donovan Clingan has. Tristen Newton has. Jordan Hawkins has. Adama Sanogo has. Andre Jackson has. Get the point? This staff develops kids as good as any staff in the country. They simply missed on some kids. Huge difference. Maybe it’s time for some on this board to regain perspective and focus on the big picture and not microanalyze every single game with a broken team and overblow it to something more than it is. The future is bright and I still would take this staff over Pitino or anyone else. Besides, remind me the last time Pitino left a school under good terms? It’s a pattern w him. He says all the right things and then ultimately does some wrong ones. Great coach, but man I wouldn’t want to be him standing in line at the gates of purgatory.

 

[Dove]

Alex...don't expect much.

Samson...don't expect much.

Hassan...don't expect much.

Liam...hope he is on. He brings heart every game.

Solo...hope he is on. He is not automatic.

Tarris...also brings a lot of heart. Offers hope.

Rest of bench...ppthhtttt

It's time to not expect a run to a threepeat. UConn plays with house money. Never was going to win the Title ever year.

Rebuild and enjoy the process.

Ohhhh, here's my post I thought was deleted. This post was a thread starter. Without that thread title, it lacks a little context.

 

[UCan3]

One thing about Hurley, he is not beyond being self-critical and unafraid to change. In fact, I think you saw him pivot in the fall by recruiting several players 6'5" and taller. He realized we need bigger players. I suspect he will be honest in his critique of himself at the end of the season, and certainly won't leave himself as vulnerable as he did this year. I agree with many here--he needs to find 3-4 upperclass players including a PG and small forward and use the freshman in backup roles. Teams need maturity and toughness from the transfer portal.

And in fairness to Hurley, show me any other team that loses 4 players to NBA and then doesn’t miss a beat the next year…

My only complaint is that I don’t think he’s used all his pieces effectively in games where we have players that for whatever reason just don’t seem up for the challenge on that particular day.

Sub more players in - Nowell played good I would have left him and diarra out there like a shabazz, boatright combo to deal with the pressure yesterday.

 

[FreeKlaiber]

Unbelievable that there are folks still running with this line

why? I dont personally think it has been a problem, but concussion symptoms truly linger for some. I doubt AK would make excuses even if he was still off. He didn't forget how to play. He's having prolonged slump for which this could possibly be a contributing factor. Like I said, I doubt it, but it is possible.

 

[cp176]

And this trashing of Hurley is tiresome to me. We have spoken ad nauseum now on how it was huge eval miss. That’s indisputable. Clearly it was. that happens everywhere. But after two straight titles and sending many kids to rhe next level, it actually is understandable. The staff has to adjust, and I am confident they will. When Hurley said he was the best coach, that was the Jersey City fighter in him at a time where he was worked up. I love that about him. The last two years alone were legendary and what he and the staff accomplished in that run will put him in the hall of fame someday.
As for development, this is another topic on the board that is beaten to death. There is a difference between gelling as a team and developing. Khadary Richmond hasn’t developed at St. John’s. he is the exact same player we have seen for years. But Samson Johnson has. Remeber him as a freshmen? Solo Ball has. Hassan Diarra has. Donovan Clingan has. Tristen Newton has. Jordan Hawkins has. Adama Sanogo has. Andre Jackson has. Get the point? This staff develops kids as good as any staff in the country. They simply missed on some kids. Huge difference. Maybe it’s time for some on this board to regain perspective and focus on the big picture and not microanalyze every single game with a broken team and overblow it to something more than it is. The future is bright and I still would take this staff over Pitino or anyone else. Besides, remind me the last time Pitino left a school under good terms? It’s a pattern w him. He says all the right things and then ultimately does some wrong ones. Great coach, but man I wouldn’t want to be him standing in line at the gates of purgatory.

Like I said, I’m a fan of Hurleys and am glad he is here. I’m not ready quite yet to anoint him the greatest coach in college basketball. Maybe someday but not just yet. If you consider any of my posts as bashing him, you are wrong. Once again, you bring young guys in, your job is to develop them. I also absolutely believe that only in rare occurrences can you expect freshmen and sophomores to compete against mature men.

 

[djct1999]

why? I dont personally think it has been a problem, but concussion symptoms truly linger for some. I doubt AK would make excuses even if he was still off. He didn't forget how to play. He's having prolonged slump for which this could possibly be a contributing factor. Like I said, I doubt it, but it is possible.

Alex will be the last person to make excuses. That said, this season has been such a drastic fall from a fairly large sample set, I tend to believe this slump just isn't mental. Something is going on we don't know about, and I am confident Alex is trying to play through something physical. He is way to good to just slump this long.

 

[cp176]

Like I said, I’m a fan of Hurleys and am glad he is here. I’m not ready quite yet to anoint him the greatest coach in college basketball. Maybe someday but not just yet. If you consider any of my posts as bashing him, you are wrong. Once again, you bring young guys in, your job is to develop them. I also absolutely believe that only in rare occurrences can you expect freshmen and sophomores to compete against mature men.

Oh and yes I do get your point. You are talking about player development in previous years which is good. My comments are related to this year.

 

[aceboon]

why? I dont personally think it has been a problem, but concussion symptoms truly linger for some. I doubt AK would make excuses even if he was still off. He didn't forget how to play. He's having prolonged slump for which this could possibly be a contributing factor. Like I said, I doubt it, but it is possible.

if AK had concussion symptoms then he would be on the bench in street clothes like Caroline Ducharme was for over a year. AK shot 1/8, 1/7 for 3 against one of the worst power conference teams in Colorado before the concussion against Dayton. AK was averaging about 16 a game on 40% from 3 with high volume well into the month of January before he went into his deep tailspin, his concussion symptoms didn't magically just re-appear, he's just playing like doodoo and now it's clearly in his head and affected his game. The boneyard has always had some coocoo for cocoa puff theories in my time posting here but the "AK is going through post concussion symptoms" in late January into February to explain his play is a true jump the shark moment for this board.

 

[djct1999]

if AK had concussion symptoms then he would be on the bench in street clothes like Caroline Ducharme was for over a year. AK shot 1/8, 1/7 for 3 against one of the worst power conference teams in Colorado before the concussion against Dayton. AK was averaging about 16 a game on 40% from 3 with high volume well into the month of January before he went into his deep tailspin, his concussion symptoms didn't magically just re-appear, he's just playing like doodoo and now it's clearly in his head and affected his game. The boneyard has always had some coocoo for cocoa puff theories in my time posting here but the "AK is going through post concussion symptoms" in late January into February to explain his play is a true jump the shark moment for this board.

I don't think people are using that as a legitmate reason. Alex's regression on the court makes zero sense. Something inexplicable is going on and I don't think its a jump the shark moment to believe its physcial, whatever it is.

 

[Pmac923]

There’s being optimistic and there’s being ignorant. They walked over us twice and didn’t break a sweat yesterday. They won by 14 and really did nothing statistically well against us.

Get out on the run? We can’t even inbound the ball against them. LOL. They’re a poison matchup for this years team.

We lost to them by 6 a few weeks ago at home. The game could’ve gone either way for 35 minutes. St John’s had an out of body experience yesterday shooting wise for a 5 minute stretch. We played our C- game with another 18 turnovers many of which were just balls going through guys hands. Will it take an extraordinary effort to beat them? Absolutely but we’ve beaten better teams with less.

 

[Kolumbo]

Side note about concussions and I hope AK is not affected by his. Andre Curbelo dismissed and some say his concussions may be the cause.

"But the dynamic, enigmatic point guard suffered a painful concussion in exhibition play ahead of a highly-anticipated sophomore season which forced him to miss 14 games in 2021-22 and derailed the preseason All-Big Ten candidate.

"Curbelo transferred to St. John's ahead of the 2022-23 season where ejections, technicals and suspensions marred his one-year stint under then-Johnnies coach Mike Anderson before parachuting to Southern Miss for the final two seasons."

Former Illinois, St. John's G Andre Curbelo dismissed from Southern Miss team amid 10-19 campaign

Dazzling dimes and on-court outbursts marred the career of the former 2021 Sixth Man of the Year.

www.cbssports.com

 

[Marbles90]

For me the season could be summed up on one play:

Smith and Ball going for a loose ball near the midcourt sideline. Smith shoves Ball out of the way. Ball goes flailing to the floor while Smith picks up the ball and glides in for a score. It looked like a bigger kid bullying a smaller kid on the playground.

I think this team just lacks toughness. All the criticism about the coaching staff, I would bet they never thought lack of toughness would be an issue and unfortunately, it is very hard to teach/coach.

Now, I know a bunch of BY'ers will blame the refs for not calling a foul on Smith but blaming the refs gets you nowhere. Fighting through the adversity of what the opponent is dishing out and how the game is being called is all about toughness - physical and mental.

 

[Umami Zen]

We were outhustled and outplayed by a long athletic team that thrives on securing the ball. 50/50 balls/deflections/loose balls. Unforced errors (TOs) and StJ making an uncharacteristically high percentage of 3 pointers didn't help. 8 point play was the cherry on top. No choice- On to Providence.

 

[Methalius]

They were a good program under Carnesecca. They made one final four and were in contention most years for the Big East title. Does that make them excellent? Then Satan brought them back for a few years but that didn’t last.

YES That makes them Excellent. They don't have a Football program to help them and as we all know, Football is what generates the most money athletically. They were a big time program when Lou was coaching. Sure they never won National Titles but if you only judge a program based on National Titles then a lot of schools that are considered excellent basketball programs probably shouldn't be considered excellent. St John's is among the winningest schools for basketball in NCAA Basketball history. They have fallen from grace since Lou retired but they are still historically an excellent Basketball program.

 

[Deepster]

We lost to them by 6 a few weeks ago at home. The game could’ve gone either way for 35 minutes. St John’s had an out of body experience yesterday shooting wise for a 5 minute stretch. We played our C- game with another 18 turnovers many of which were just balls going through guys hands. Will it take an extraordinary effort to beat them? Absolutely but we’ve beaten better teams with less.

I hope you're right. Hey, maybe Aiden Mahaney will go for 30 too.