St John's post game thread

[Gurleyman]

And that’s not good when he’s 4-15 and your star player. He and Tarris only bright spots.

I put it upthread, but Liam should be allowed to give a couple of his second half misses to Karaban. Multiple times, Alex refused to shoot when he got open off a screen, bogged down the offense, and then gave Liam a 911 pass at the end of the shot clock.

Liam did start slow, which is forgivable. But he was put in jail by his teammates a lot, which wasn’t fair to him.

 

[NickDanger]

Yes, I said that in the chat last night. That sequence was the killer. He became deflated. Didn't even look for a shot after that. But we didn't change our offense. And the ball would wind up stuck on the perimeter with the shot clock running out. Leading to us chucking up airballs.

There are no links to the chat on the board anymore that I can see. How do you locate it?

 

[Stinger92860]

Karaban was 22 of 47 from 3 (about 47% against much weaker competition) up to the point he got a concussion. Since the concussion he has been 24 of 91 (about 26%). Last season his 3P% was 37.9. Currently, this season it is 37.6. What does it mean - I am not sure, but statistically he is about where he was last year. But, he started the season with what looked to be an improved 3P shot. After a concussion his 3P% plummeted by almost 50% or by 21 percentage points. Is it possible that he is still suffering effects of the concussion? Maybe some vision issues?

Excellent point

 

[Flipside]

For the polyannas talking about where kemba’s team was at this point in the season - stop it. Put down the kool aid. This team is closer to the one that lost to New Mexico than the team from the last two years.

if memory serves, that Kemba team was in a similar but different position ... won Maui (entering the season unranked), lost to St John's (when we were struggling midseason) and won the National Championship ... I was at every game

 

[Jaydumo20]

This lose is on Hurley. You cannot continue to be so stubborn that you play your vets so much when they are giving you nothing. Why did AK play the entire second half and Stewart was no where to be found. You also had to foul there with only a 7 second difference in clock. They left Richmond on the floor and they should have fouled him. Even if they got the stop, the offense was struggling so bad, they would have struggled to get a shot off in time.

I think you have to play your vets in tough games like this. You want to win the game, sure, but you have to think long term. The vets are our starters and if they get pulled from these games how will they fare when things get tough again? Fans are like us are too quick to pull the plug because we don't have the patience great coaches have.

 

[SwingDog]

I don't see many people saying that despite all of our many health issues and deficiencies we lost by a total of 6 points and were in it until the final minute. Clean up just some of the flaws, like take a little better care of the basketball, and some of these close L's turn into W's.

 

[Hunt for 7]

Understood for McNeeley, but what about Nowell? Seems like he's been hurt for a long time.

We have no idea what he did to his ankle no video nothing. If the kid is hurt he is hurt. But Nowell after not playing for three weeks is going to be the player that changes that game for us. I hope he gets healthy and can be a guy who can penetrate then make something happen because unfortunately Mahaney is toast. He is not going to cut it night in and night out in a physical league. They play a whole different game in the WAC. St Mary is currently undefeated in league play or at least they were going into last night. Does not look like they are missing Mahaney.

 

[Northbound]

As had been said by many, last night Pitino did a masterful job of using pressure in the full and half court. Forcing the offense to start higher then usual after a press makes it messy - it gets late in the shot clock early and you get a forced shot as time is expiring. The offense that has all these actions and options is somewhat predicated on where it starts on the court and when it the clock it begins.

Turnovers are brutal - credit Marquette and St.John they have the type of players where they can extend defensive pressure, but it’s been an issue outside of those two games.

There’s a blueprint for making this team uncomfortable not sure most teams can follow it, but it there for all to see.

Just an aside I am no fan of Gus Johnson and it was a crime to call JC “Coach Cal”.

On to the next one.

 

[Hunt for 7]

I think the collapse started with ten minutes left in the first half. We started out on fire and ended up down at the half.

After AK missed three wide open threes that is when the wheels fell off. Those would have been dagger threes and let’s be honest they were wide open and we were lucky they did not break the backboard. They had no chance from the time they left his hand.

 

[mauconnfan]

I put it upthread, but Liam should be allowed to give a couple of his second half misses to Karaban. Multiple times, Alex refused to shoot when he got open off a screen, bogged down the offense, and then gave Liam a 911 pass at the end of the shot clock.

Liam did start slow, which is forgivable. But he was put in jail by his teammates a lot, which wasn’t fair to him.

Fair point and definitely true, thanks for the reminder. I think…. Lol

 

[SwingDog]

That was the game. They defended, we didn't.

We held them to 40% shooting and 68 points. We made it difficult for Richmond and overall they got very few easy shots. Our defense wasn't the problem.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Honestly beyond wanting to throw my drink at the tv a couple of times and hearing my daughter’s friend who came over for a play date whispering “why does your dad talk to the TV?”, the highlight of the night for me was seeing Ben Gordon looking good, clean and healthy. 180 turn from the last time he was in the news…

 

[RuffRuff]

Put down the kool-aid is your response to a legitimate comparison?

UConn fans can be really narrow minded - we’ve experienced AT LEAST 3 teams that WON THE TITLE who were having genuine crises in-season. 4 of the 6 is probably correct. Teams that, after certain games, you’d have this EXACT opinion.

No one’s saying this team will be another, they’re just making the obvious and true comparison to past results.

You calling them insulting names does nothing to change that.

I think it’s time to stop using two highly highly unrepeatable runs as templates to anything. Savor them, bask in them, but expecting them to be examples for how it could happen again, please stop.

 

[CT2SC]

And yet we only lost by 6. It was the 22 turnovers that killed us.

22 turnovers, a ton of missed foul shots, and absolutely nothing from AK. That was the game. Hurley has to sit AK when he’s giving us nothing and get Stew back on the court.

The bright spot from my perspective is McNeeley coming back after a month off and on day one, despite the rust, he was already far and away our best player on the court. We will go as far as he is able to carry us.

 

[Scoe]

I think it’s time to stop using two highly highly unrepeatable runs as templates to anything. Savor them, bask in them, but expecting them to be examples for how it could happen again, please stop.

Very few fans can't simply just live in the moment and take it one game at a time.

 

[uconn_jack]

This is how every team in America will guess is moving forward. Marquette showed the blueprint, St. John’s perfected it. By switching, it prohibits any sort of back door cut and our guys aren’t fast enough to separate. My guess is, unless like adds another wrinkle, we will struggle offensively going forward. The verdict is out

This has always been the way to defend our offense. Knowing that and being able to do it are two different things. Marquette and St John's are built and prepared to be able to do it, and combined with the physicality allowed in the BE, it will continue to be harder to implement our offense in conference without overwhelming with talent and having some guys being able to break defense down 1v1.

This team has enough talent with Liam, but without a healthy PG and no backup, and the team's defensive weaknesses, it's going to be tough beating the top 3 in conference.

When the tournament comes around, however, teams still aren't going to be as prepared for us as our conference-mates. They will know how it should be done, but unless they are built and already prepared to do it, defending us will still be tough for them. Not nearly as tough as the last couple years, but still a challenge. That's why I am still optimistic we can get to the second weekend, with a shot at the third, as long as we can maintain intensity and not run into a buzz saw team.

 

[martyn]

We held them to 40% shooting and 68 points. We made it difficult for Richmond and overall they got very few easy shots. Our defense wasn't the problem.

Forty percent is about their average, isn't it? The glaring difference in turnovers says defense was the problem, at least a problem.

 

[DogMania]

It's amazing that it was a one possession game late, that they had a 4 PT lead with a little over 7 minutes to go and were up as much as 14 points in the first half, considering how many negative things they did throughout game.

You're unlikely to win when you turn the ball over a ton and shoot poorly from deep, inside the arc and from the line. Just do better at one of those 3 and they win.

As for Karaban, he was shooting the 3 well from crazy deep just about every game until after the January 1st game against DePaul. Other than a couple games since, he just can't get it going from deep. So we know he's capable, but unless he gets dialed in, this team is unlikely to have sustained wining streaks, which is necessary to win post season tournaments.

Even with all the TOs against MU, they won because they shot the ball well from all over the court. Not so against SJU, though a little credit goes to Storm's tough D and our lack of handling their pressure. Wow do they need to work on inbounding the ball!

I think they can fix a lot of the things that are going wrong, but I'm concerned about one that I'm not sure there is a remedy. They just don't have enough quality lead guards. Diarra has had to play way too many minutes and has now broken down. We are prone to teams that are able to pressure the ball. Unless we can shoot the ball at a very high level we'll get taken out by that type of team.

Still a lot of games to improve but there's reason for concern. If everyone can get healthy and they play to their capabilities, this team can be very good, but just not sure that will happen. I hope it does.

 

[TheShot1990]

“We don’t have this we don’t have that, we have no guards, we can’t shoot. Our defense sucks. This kid is no good”

I’m watching a very competitive UCONN basketball team compete for a top spot in the big east in February after winning two nattys.

I’m going to the garden to watch my dogs spank St. John’s.

I’m happy

 

[RuffRuff]

Very few fans can't simply just live in the moment and take it one game at a time.

Drives me insane. Oh yeah, Shabazz did this 10 years ago, it can happen again!! Did you not see our 99 team?

Go look at how many 7 seeds have won the tourney and circle back to me. Outlier. Want to know how many X a 7 seed or higher has won the tourney? Twice ever. We just happened to be on the receiving end of a rarity. And now people think there is some magic dust in Storrs that turns average teams into champs. News alert, it’s not the template.

The endless comps to Huskies of yesteryear. None of that matters. As if a player comp is going to turn them into a past player. Unless you’re making players from the stem cells of past players they are all unique humans with unique traits and personalities.

 

[housekeys]

Positive Significant key take away: Liam is a stud. Liam will make a difference. With Liam, UConn would have had fewer losses.

To St'John's: 1) Congratulations 2) They get away with fouls 3) Be happy with a participation trophy, you won the battle not the war. 4) Despite all that, definitely a very good team. 5) again, congratulations.

To our fans: 1) It is OK to blow off steam, remember we are spoiled and arrogant. 2) The only thing that matters is winning 6 games in a row. A horrible NC State team won 5 straight at just the right time, last year. 3) If you have the courage, support the g*dam team.

 

[cp176]

I agree with the comments about us having an advantage with Reed. Getting the ball in to him against that relentless pressure was something else though. It’s just not that easy. I think any criticism of Diarra at this point is a little unfair. Any point guard playing against man pressure like what they saw is going to have a tough time from the start and we have to have him on the floor. St. John’s defense is just that good. You have to work from baseline to baseline. Reed was obviously outstanding. McNeeley is the real deal. I like our team and the way that it has been built. I prefer it to the way Pitino built his team but no denying that he really knew what he was doing.

 

[housekeys]

With Liam back, the team needs to redefine and refine some roles. Once that is done, get back into a rhythm and regain momentum and confidence. There is sufficient talent to make it work.

 

[housekeys]

the highlight of the night for me was seeing Ben Gordon looking good, clean and healthy. 180 turn from the last time he was in the news…

Excellent post and observation.

 

[buddy]

Not vanished. They subbed him out. Up 14, Stewie and Solo on fire, and BOTH get subbed out together.

Yes, and within a matter of minutes it went from 21-8 to 26-22

 

[RuffRuff]

I agree with the comments about us having an advantage with Reed. Getting the ball in to him against that relentless pressure was something else though. It’s just not that easy. I think any criticism of Diarra at this point is a little unfair. Any point guard playing against man pressure like what they saw is going to have a tough time from the start and we have to have him on the floor. St. John’s defense is just that good. You have to work from baseline to baseline. Reed was obviously outstanding. McNeeley is the real deal. I like our team and the way that it has been built. I prefer it to the way Pitino built his team but no denying that he really knew what he was doing.

It’s funny because the way Pitino builds his teams is almost the exact opposite of how Hurley builds his. Will be a fun watch with these two as long as they’re there.

Love that we have the budding of a real rivalry. Hurley now has to start thinking about how he builds rosters to go toe to toe.

Speaking of which, Zubi, Luis, Wilcher only juniors. He gets them back and a couple good portal grabs, he’s right back there next year. Not sure if Luis tests the draft, but if he’s back they’ll likely be right back atop the league next year. Will likely be looking for that same type of PG in the portal we want as well. Maybe his son kicks over his stud.

 

[FreeKlaiber]

Pitino is one of the best coaches to ever do it. His move to increase full court pressure changed the game.

 

[cp176]

It’s funny because the way Pitino builds his teams is almost the exact opposite of how Hurley builds his. Will be a fun watch with these two as long as they’re there.

Love that we have the budding of a real rivalry. Hurley now has to start thinking about how he builds rosters to go toe to toe.

Speaking of which, Zubi, Luis, Wilcher only juniors. He gets them back and a couple good portal grabs, he’s right back there next year. Not sure if Luis tests the draft, but if he’s back they’ll likely be right back atop the league next year. Will likely be looking for that same type of PG in the portal we want as well. Maybe his son kicks over his stud.

This type of rivalry is so good for this league and the game. Two of the very best coaches in the game. I agree with you 100%. I also agree with you about the roster building. I do prefer Hurley’s method in general, but he does need to identify what he needs to compete with teams like St. John’s and he might have to rely on the portal to help. To me it just represents what can happen when you have a strong group of athletes who are physically committed to playing tough hard nosed defensive basketball. Playing teams like that will only make you stronger moving forward. Tough tough game to ref but I thought the job the they did in general was excellent.

 

[Mazhude]

Why does Rick Pitino win? The answer is in no-man’s-land

this preseason at St. John’s. Every day ended with an autopsy revealing a fatal flaw. St. John’s couldn’t shoot.
“The lowest metrics I’ve seen from my team, ever,” Pitino recently told me.
Pitino and his staff could have very well taken the Sisyphean route. More reps. More shots. More 3s until the numbers changed. Instead, a far simpler decision. Shoot closer... So, before this team ever played a game, he began devoting parts of his most valuable resource — those individual workouts — to players operating in what most other programs now consider no-man’s-land. Pitino’s 42-minute one-on-one training sessions began including 20 minutes of pull-up 15-footers, and mid-range shots off curls, and all variety of floaters. In the win over UConn on Friday night, Pitino’s team made 9 of 26 shots at the rim, 4 of 21 3-pointers, and an absurd 13 of 18 shots between the paint and 3-point line. The game’s decisive play was one most modern basketball fans would deem a terrible shot. On a baseline inbound with 3 seconds remaining on the shot clock and 12 seconds remaining on the game clock, with St. John’s leading by two, assistant coach Bob Walsh drew up a counter that resulted in Luis taking a catch-and-shoot jumper from about 19 feet out, just inside the arc, from the side of the basket.
Hurley, a devotee to current shot quality convention, wants opposing teams to take bad shots. He wants opposing players taking shots off the dribble, shots from the midrange (“middies,” Hurley calls ’em) and contested shots. Problem is, that’s exactly what St. John’s does.

“Like, those 15-17 footers?” Hurley said. “You’re … you know … as a defense, you kind of don’t mind those. But then, these guys are really proficient at it. So … yeah.”

 

[RuffRuff]

This type of rivalry is so good for this league and the game. Two of the very best coaches in the game. I agree with you 100%. I also agree with you about the roster building. I do prefer Hurley’s method in general, but he does need to identify what he needs to compete with teams like St. John’s and he might have to rely on the portal to help. To me it just represents what can happen when you have a strong group of athletes who are physically committed to playing tough hard nosed defensive basketball. Playing teams like that will only make you stronger moving forward. Tough tough game to ref but I thought the job the they did in general was excellent.

So good for the league. Loss stings but for the sake of entrainment value having some equity between Pitino and Hurley is such good juice. Two big ego Goliath coaches is why fans tune in to college hoops. Hurley goes home pissed after likely hearing the narrative that he lost to the best coach in the game, when you know he wants. This is what sports is all about. I hate to lose as a UConn fan but it’s all good entertainment.

Refs were great - let them play. For those complaining about holds, if they’re allowing it, hold back.