Sporting News ranks the top seven players of all-time | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Sporting News ranks the top seven players of all-time

hoophuskee said:
We agree that WIn Shares shouldn't be the only stat when defining all-time greatness, correct?

Win Shares are a suppleemnt. Not close to being an end-all-be-all. I emphasize "not close."
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The only one? No, but as I said one can use any number of stats or bases for defining greatness.
 
Sluconn Husky said:
The only one? No, but as I said one can use any number of stats or bases for defining greatness.
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I agree.

IMO no stat or combo of stats can be used to define best ever, 2nd best ever etc.

It's all subjective and based on biases that we derive our opinions from.
 
I don’t think there can be a definitive list but any top seven list that does not include Maya is simply ridiculous! Obviously, my fondest wish is for Paige & Co to win this championship but if they don’t I would be almost as happy to see Iowa win!
 
Cuango said:
I don’t think there can be a definitive list but any top seven list that does not include Maya is simply ridiculous! Obviously, my fondest wish is for Paige & Co to win this championship but if they don’t I would be almost as happy to see Iowa win!
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I can't see any player right now breaking through between Miller, DT, Stewart, Maya, Holdsclaw and Parker (not in order). These 6 were scary-great. IMO these 6 are Tier 1. I can see Clark breaking in if ofc if she wins it all or maybe if she loses but in FF loses to a super team and she was pretty much unstoppable. It would be possibly my bias circumsatnce depending on getting to that final week.

As far as Iowa-- I don't care but -- no way would I be "almost as happy" if Iowa won rather than UCONN. I can care less about Iowa speaking in a fun way. :)
 
Same "no championship" argument against Caitlin Clark should be used against Paige Bueckers in UConn Mount Rushmore discussions, if UConn does not win a national championship with her.

UConn will be loaded next season, if healthy. Paige will have more talented teammates than Caitlin has had. Paige has All American Edwards this season. Caitlin does not.

UConn won a national championship with Renee, Tina, and Maya. UConn won another NC with Tina, and Maya. UConn did not win a championship with Maya, Tiff, Faris, Dolson, and Hartley. That is the talent that Caitlin has played with.

Takes a team to win NC. Taurasi had help her junior and senior seasons. Just not All American help.
 
Maya statistics are eerily similar to Chamique. Source:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/

Zero championships are the argument against Caitlin Clark being top 10 player, for some BYers. Three championships should give Chamique edge over Maya, even though championships are a team accomplishment.


NCGFG%2P%3P%FT%TRBASTSTLBLKPTS
Maya21540.5250.5890.4040.79812765443102043036
Chamique31480.5100.5260.2540.71512953863071153025
 
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Maya: Now I only care my husband and my son.

maya-moore-reveal-cover_GMA-848x1024.jpg
 
maple said:
Yeah, I personally would not rank any player who hasn't won at least one NC in the top 10. There's been so many talented WBB players throughout many decades (and will always be more to come), there has to be at least some kind of qualifiers to classify the best of the best.
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Championships are team accomplishments. Football is the ultimate team sport. 11 moving players on each team on every play.

Unlike the NBA, NHL, and MLB, offensive players do not play defense in the NFL. And vice versa. Name the last true two way player in the NFL, who played at least 50% of snaps on both sides of the ball for an entire season.

Eli Manning does not sniff the NFL Hall of Fame, if the NY Giants defense did not hold the NE Patriots offense with Tom Brady to 14 and 17 points in Super Bowls 42 and 46.

Now back to discussing women's college basketball championships and top 10 players.
 
hoophuskee said:
I can't see any player right now breaking through between Miller, DT, Stewart, Maya, Holdsclaw and Parker (not in order). These 6 were scary-great. IMO these 6 are Tier 1. I can see Clark breaking in if ofc if she wins it all or maybe if she loses but in FF loses to a super team and she was pretty much unstoppable. It would be possibly my bias circumsatnce depending on getting to that final week.

As far as Iowa-- I don't care but -- no way would I be "almost as happy" if Iowa won rather than UCONN. I can care less about Iowa speaking in a fun way. :)
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By the end of February 2024, Caitlin Clark will have over 3600 points, over 1000 assists, and over 900 rebounds. No other player has ever had 3000, 1000, and 800. How is Caitlin Clark not scary good?


You mentioned Candace Parker. She tweeted "41 dude who does that?" after Caitlin Clark scored 41 points in the Final Four semi final against previously undefeated South Carolina. It was Caitlin's second of back to back 40+ point games.

https://hawkeyeswire.usatoday.com/lists/iowa-basketball-sports-stars-media-react-caitlin-clark-final-four-ncaa-tournament-prowess/


National Championships are team accomplishments. Games are not played one versus five.

Nine of UConn's national championship teams had at least two WBCA All Americans. Same for AP All Americans. Source is the 2023-4 UConn Media Guide on pages 115 and 116.


No disrespect to Lisa Bluder, but is she on the same coaching level as Geno Auriemma, Pat Summitt, Tara VanDeerver, Kim Mulkey, and Dawn Staley?

Head coaching does make a difference in March Madness. Otherwise, what is all the fuss about Geno? :D
 
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The deacon said:
Right back to you, hoophuskee.

I agree with virtually everything you say, just not your synopsis.;)

Anyway, when I wrote that, I knew it'd be spitting into the wind with many here. That's okay. You make convincing points, likely in agreement with most here.

By the way, my favorite b-ball player has been Tim Duncan, at the start because he was a Deacon, then increasingly over the years because of his remarkable success built on both his individual talents and his unselfish nature.

Not coincidentally, as far as I'm concerned, Tim never won a national title at Wake because he just didn't have the teammates around him, yet I believe most supposed experts would call him one of the all-time best men's college basketball players. My point there is I just believe much of the antipathy toward Caitlin on the BY is because she's taken the torch from the injury-plagued Paige and run with it.

Anyway, thanks for keeping the good conversation going...

Go, Huskies! It's halftime of yet another Big East blowout.
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Personally, I really don’t agree with the “antipathy toward Catlin” related to Paige comment. I love Caitlin. And I sure wish we’d been able to see a healthy Paige for the past 4 years. Paige was better as a freshman. We don’t know if that would have continued. I remember watching Caitlin as a freshman and thinking - she shoots a lot and has too many turnovers, but boy is she exciting to watch. Anyway, I don’t think this discussion has anything to do with the so called antipathy towards Caitlin - at least not for me.
 
NO QUESTION, Maya belongs on the list, and near the top of it! Also, you can't quantify "style", but Maya had the most beautiful game. I'll never forget her finger-roll layups.
Another issue with this list - why the top seven? Why not eight or ten or fifteen? Maybe the author only listed those who he/she thought ranked higher than Caitlin?
 
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I've always used as my measure the answer to the question of what player would you choose to start a team from scratch. Stewie has always been the answer to that question, and she remains so in my mind. But I've never seen a more amazing player in every aspect of the game than Caitlin. It doesn't seem fair to the girl because she couldn't (and won't) deliver a championship to Iowa. One player rarely can. EDD elevated Delaware into some notoriety, but her greatness only got them so far. Doesn't diminish EDD in any way; there are 4 other players out there . . .
Here's my corollary query: who would you most like to watch play? Difficult to NOT say Caitlin.
 
huskyd said:
I've always used as my measure the answer to the question of what player would you choose to start a team from scratch. Stewie has always been the answer to that question, and she remains so in my mind. But I've never seen a more amazing player in every aspect of the game than Caitlin. It doesn't seem fair to the girl because she couldn't (and won't) deliver a championship to Iowa. One player rarely can. EDD elevated Delaware into some notoriety, but her greatness only got them so far. Doesn't diminish EDD in any way; there are 4 other players out there . . .
Here's my corollary query: who would you most like to watch play? Difficult to NOT say Caitlin.
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Please take this is a fun post. I had a back-and-forth with another poster regarding DT vs Clark. Why is it fair to overlook Clark's lack of titles if she gets none while being so focused on offensive stats vs a player like DT that came to UCONN specifically to win titles in which she knew she would not accumulate as many stats?

1--- CC came to Iowa; had to have a strong rational understanding that she probably wasn't going to win a title.
2---- DT came to UCONN with the understanding that she wasn't going to be the number 1 player early on. but with a rational understanding she was going to win at least once.

It doesn't make sense to not hold anything against Clark while holding it against DT for not accumulating as many stats.

Secondly, from the Italics above - I can recall a player that the poster on here his name is The Deacon knows. The player The Deacon will recognize is the name; Tim Duncan. His nickname; The Big Fundamental. No doubt one of the super great player’s off all-time. His style of play isn't even near the style of play Clark employs. In fact I will say Tm Duncan was one of the most boring superstars I have ever watched. So taking in your corollary query:, when we view all-time greatness, if a player is boring in our view, then he shouldn't be considered as an all-time great? Because he would have "mythically" surpassed more exciting players, right?Otherwise what was the point of your query?

And I'll also add- I respect Clark a ton. I respect the Offense she runs - sort of like a prime LeBron James or Dwayne Wade. OFC she shoots more 3's but in LBJ's and Wade's prime similar type of offensive spread. I prefer however Curry from Golden State even though I know LBJ is greater. And I prefer DT, Maya and Stewie watching that style over Clark's (LBJ's). For any game, if Clark lays a clunker it's about as boring to watch as you can get. Yet I recall when DT played a clunker in the Finals vs Oklahoma, because they ran a Team Offense, the game remained well played and up-tempo. Clark's current game is contingent on one player on her team. She has imo made the other players on her team boring. Primarily they sit at a spot and wait for a pass from her. - Just my bias- I'm an old timer.

My favorite player on this team is Paige. In one game or two if she were to score 40-50 points I would be ecstatic. But if that were part of the offense and she was doing so much shooting regularly, I would end up being incredibly bored. Part of my excitement this year was watching KK and Ashlynn play so well together. I remarked often of how much I was enjoying that. Overall one-player teams are boring for me.
 
Lots of really good collegiate players to choose from.

Griner was great, but only 8.8 rebounds a game for someone who was always the tallest player on the court? Based on memory alone, I'd bet Courtney Paris' stats were better all 4 seasons for Oklahoma; she was definitely one of the most dominant Centers of all time.

Texas Tech's Sheryl Swoopes was the truth, especially defensively. She could anticipate passes and make steals better than anyone. Only played 2 seasons in Division I after 2 seasons in JUCO.
 
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nwhoopfan said:
To play devils advocate, winning Championships is certainly a function of how talented your teammates are in addition to individual greatness.
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Take Breanna Stewart, for example, every year of her college career, two of her teammates were also WBCA All Americans, not to mention the other McDonald’s AAs stacking the UConn rosters of that great era.
 
Sheryl Swoopes was the only player that I recall who carried her team to victory in the championship game. She scored 47 of the team's 84 points. Even she needed help from guard Krista Kirkland.

I would like to put a vote in for Cynthia Cooper, Cheryl Miller's teammate at USC, for a top ten player. She didn't fully show her skills until the WNBA though.
 
BigTenGuy said:
Take Breanna Stewart, for example, every year of her college career, two of her teammates were also WBCA All Americans, not to mention the other McDonald’s AAs stacking the UConn rosters of that great era.
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9 of UConn's 11 championship teams had at least 2 All Americans from WBCA, AP and/or USBWA.

9 of UConn's 11 championships had the Naismith NPOY. Lobo, Bird, Taurasi 2x, Maya, Tina, Stewie 3x.

Source is pages 117 and 118 in the 2023-4 UConn media guide.

https://uconnhuskies.com/documents/2023/11/1/2023-24_UConn_WBB_Media_Guide.pdf
 
BigTenGuy said:
Take Breanna Stewart, for example, every year of her college career, two of her teammates were also WBCA All Americans, not to mention the other McDonald’s AAs stacking the UConn rosters of that great era.
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Worth noting that Stewart still managed to be a standout even while surrounded by such high caliber players. She truly made the game look effortless, particularly in her junior and senior years. If you're THE star on a team full of stars, that has to mean something.

Stewart might not have won 4 straight without such a strong cast around her, but she definitely would have won at least one.
 
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