Sporting News ranks the top seven players of all-time

[Skeets]

I'm not saying she should be part of any list but the person who gets ignored the most and gets absolutely no love is Jackie Stiles. She was the Caitlin Clark before there was a Caitlin Clark. No NCs but that is what you get when you play for Southwest Nowhere State...

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

The following, IMHO, is how I look at greatness!
As stated above some players lower their personal expectations to have the team reach unreachable heights!
When a great HS player decides on what college to play for he/she decides WHAT that school needs to be successful and what she needs to be successful!
When Shea Ralph came to UConn she was a very vain practice player and Geno and staff made her see how she can still lead the team and be a star player!
When DT came to Storrs she was the best player on the team from the start (per Geno in an interview), but she had to learn how to MOLD her play to bring the best out of everyone else!
How great a player is is determined by the talent she plays with! No one can convince me that DT could have set almost all offensive UConn records but became what UConn needed to win Championships! 2002-2003 and 2003-2004 was one of the most awesome examples of LEADERSHIP that I've ever seen! DT took average players and by her skills and her heart/will won 2 National Championships! Almost driving herself to a nervous breakdown (also per Geno in a past interview)!
Caitlin Clark is a GREAT WBB player but she doesn't have the greatness around her for 4 years, so she must be 90% of her team's offense to win games and possibly a Championship!
UConn players come to UConn to win National Championships not for individual glory, they check their egos at the door and work their hardest to get the most out of the TEAM!
Again IMHO when a great HS player recruited by UConn chooses to go somewhere else, I laugh to myself that she doesn't want to work UConn HARD and wants the INDIVIDUAL glory more than winning a Championship! Her stated reason maybe I want to play closer to home, my best friend goes there, or whatever reason she can think of, but it takes a SPECIAL player/person to go to UConn!
Ask any present or past UConn player and they'll say the practices are insane and harder than any opponent they'll face!
The UConn staff won't let the players WIN in practice as they constantly raise the bar so there is very little chance of achieving the Goal!
And Geno sets up drills of 3 on 5, 8 on 5, so it takes near perfection to achieve the goal!
There is so much HS talent around nowadays but their is only a handful of that talent that could succeed at UConn!

 

[diggerfoot]

MSSportsGuy, the argument that Caitlin's not in the ballpark for WCBB GOAT because she hasn't won a national championship is incredulous to true sports fans who appreciate Clark's greatness.

Caitlin made her choice to go to Iowa because she wanted to play near home and help her state university raise its WCBB profile. She's done that beyond the wildest expectations, no matter what happens in this year's NCAA tournament.

That said, for those who watch her play, you honestly don't think she deserves a spot in the Top Ten of all-time? Come on, that's head-in-the-sand silly.

I watched DT play throughout her college career and I'll opine she wasn't the caliber player Caitlin Clark is now. Even my brother, who has felt since Stewie's freshman year that she is the WCBB GOAT (and I agreed 'til now), now understands Caitlin is a step ahead of her, too, with or without national titles.

Too many here on the BY base their arguments on national titles. As a fellow Huskies fan since the Lobo/Rizzotti days, I understand that sentiment. Yet judging a player in a totally different circumstance than any of those six players on Noh's list ahead of Caitlin by their standards just doesn't make sense.

Heck, has any player in history even come close to the extended greatness Caitlin demonstrated during the '23 tournament? And she didn't come away with a title. Did DT, Stewie or anyone else do what Caitlin did then? Surely, some of you will say she didn't do enough... please!

I'll be rooting for Paige and Co. to win it all this year, against the odds, but otherwise will be cheering for Iowa until it falls, very possibly in the Sweet Sixteen, Elite Eight or whenever. No matter when Caitlin's season ends, she's long ago shown her talents and performances are beyond anything we've seen before in WCBB.

In the meantime, I ask those of you who consider yourselves as objective and appreciative sport fans to simply sit back and enjoy what Caitlin Clark is achieving.

Feel free to take aim and fire, my friends!

I know we have been at odds regarding Clark due to our respective biases, though it appears you believe you do not have a bias, you just believe those who disagree do.

When I once wrote that Clark is not in the same league as Bueckers defensively I later admitted that was a touch of hyperbole. Clark is better at defense than I initially gave her credit. I still do not think she is as good at keeping her opponent in front of her and other attributes of good defense as Bueckers, while perhaps you do, but I’ll chock that up to our biases.

The certainty that you have your own bias emerges when you say Clark is a step ahead of Stewart. Even if you want to give an edge to Clark offensively, there is no way her value approaches Stewart on defense. Other teams had to change their offense because of Stewart in the line up, the same cannot be said for Clark.

Holdsclaw, Parker, Miller, Griner and Beard are also players whose defense surpassed Clark’s; that’s not really debatable regardless of one’s bias.

As for offense, Stewart averaged about 16 shots per game. I do not know what Clark’s is, but I will take a wild guess it’s substantially more. If you go right outside the three-point line they are comparable shooters. The farther out you go the more that is Clark’s territory. The closer in you go the more that is Stewart’s. They are both capable of making shots the other can’t.

As for taking over a game, in Stewart’s freshman year UConn faced a ND team in the FF that they had lost to 3 times previously that year. Despite missing the first game of the tourney Stewart had finally realized her potential. She put the team on her back to score 29 points against a team that had repeatedly demonstrated they were better throughout the year. That’s much like what Clark did against SC, except Stewart did it as a freshman. If you want to run with talking point that Stewart had better teammates: 1). those “better” teammates still were not as good as ND that year and 2) Clark’s teammates shot collectively better in the SC game than she did.

That we might differ on the offensive worth of Clark vs Stewart or Bueckers, fine, we have our own biases, whether recognized or not. To overlook the defensive end of the equation to proclaim Clark a step ahead of Stewart is about as blind a bias as you can have.

 

[hoophuskee]

I know we have been at odds regarding Clark due to our respective biases, though it appears you believe you do not have a bias, you just believe those who disagree do.

When I once wrote that Clark is not in the same league as Bueckers defensively I later admitted that was a touch of hyperbole. Clark is better at defense than I initially gave her credit. I still do not think she is as good at keeping her opponent in front of her and other attributes of good defense as Bueckers, while perhaps you do, but I’ll chock that up to our biases.

The certainty that you have your own bias emerges when you say Clark is a step ahead of Stewart. Even if you want to give an edge to Clark offensively, there is no way her value approaches Stewart on defense. Other teams had to change their offense because of Stewart in the line up, the same cannot be said for Clark.

Holdsclaw, Parker, Miller, Griner and Beard are also players whose defense surpassed Clark’s; that’s not really debatable regardless of one’s bias.

As for offense, Stewart averaged about 16 shots per game. I do not know what Clark’s is, but I will take a wild guess it’s substantially more. If you go right outside the three-point line they are comparable shooters. The farther out you go the more that is Clark’s territory. The closer in you go the more that is Stewart’s. They are both capable of making shots the other can’t.

As for taking over a game, in Stewart’s freshman year UConn faced a ND team in the FF that they had lost to 3 times previously that year. Despite missing the first game of the tourney Stewart had finally realized her potential. She put the team on her back to score 29 points against a team that had repeatedly demonstrated they were better throughout the year. That’s much like what Clark did against SC, except Stewart did it as a freshman. If you want to run with talking point that Stewart had better teammates: 1). those “better” teammates still were not as good as ND that year and 2) Clark’s teammates shot collectively better in the SC game than she did.

That we might differ on the offensive worth of Clark vs Stewart or Bueckers, fine, we have our own biases, whether recognized or not. To overlook the defensive end of the equation to proclaim Clark a step ahead of Stewart is about as blind a bias as you can have.

I don't think he said "Step ahead of Stewart." I don't think Stewart was addressed, was she?

IMO I have Stewart as best ever. I can't get into a Cherly Miller arguemnt never saw her play so I keep her as someone always up there. You bring up a great point about Defense. And just to add DT's Defense was underrated. She was a tremendous rebounder considering she was a guard.

Our 3 players of Stewie, DT and Maya are extemely tough nuts to crack and breakthrough. And begrudgingly, I say that about the two legendary Vols players too - though I might add one of them I don't care for much at all.

My bias or no bias - How this person that wrote the article didn't put Maya on this list is truly mind-boggling.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Is Tamika Catchings about as big of an omission as Maya Moore? An all time top 7 list is very exclusive, so of course some worthy candidates are going to be missed.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Often a voice of reason, visitingcock, you've clearly lost it on this one...

I grade on effort. Unlike this judge:

 

[uconnfan68]

Great as she was, Diana really didn't have great college production.

She carried 2 teams to NCs. If that was easy, show me someone else that did it.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Win Shares are laughable. So Sue Bird, Taurasi, Rebecca Lobo, Abrosimova, and others are not among the 250 best players ever, but Kalana Greene and Barbara Turner are? The two biggest flaws are that it is skewed in favor of games played, and is based on an unproven statistical model (as are most such rating systems used in sports, such as Wins Above Replacement used in baseball).

You can certainly put those players high up in any list you like, but win shares measures productivity and success, and if you miss games you will have less of both. Had Maya played 1-1/2 seasons before suffering a career-ending injury you would've thought she was a tremendous player but who would rank her among the greatest ever?

 

[Sluconn Husky]

She carried 2 teams to NCs. If that was easy, show me someone else that did it.

Sure, but that's not what's being measured here. You can rate players a number of ways: eye tests, titles won, awards, stat totals, advanced stats, etc.....

 

[hoophuskee]

You can certainly put those players high up in any list you like, but win shares measures productivity and success, and if you miss games you will have less of both. Had Maya played 1-1/2 seasons before suffering a career-ending injury you would've thought she was a tremendous player but who would rank her among the greatest ever?

We agree that WIn Shares shouldn't be the only stat when defining all-time greatness, correct?

Win Shares are a suppleemnt. Not close to being an end-all-be-all. I emphasize "not close."

 

[Sluconn Husky]

We agree that WIn Shares shouldn't be the only stat when defining all-time greatness, correct?

Win Shares are a suppleemnt. Not close to being an end-all-be-all. I emphasize "not close."

The only one? No, but as I said one can use any number of stats or bases for defining greatness.

 

[hoophuskee]

The only one? No, but as I said one can use any number of stats or bases for defining greatness.

I agree.

IMO no stat or combo of stats can be used to define best ever, 2nd best ever etc.

It's all subjective and based on biases that we derive our opinions from.

 

[Cuango]

I don’t think there can be a definitive list but any top seven list that does not include Maya is simply ridiculous! Obviously, my fondest wish is for Paige & Co to win this championship but if they don’t I would be almost as happy to see Iowa win!

 

[hoophuskee]

I don’t think there can be a definitive list but any top seven list that does not include Maya is simply ridiculous! Obviously, my fondest wish is for Paige & Co to win this championship but if they don’t I would be almost as happy to see Iowa win!

I can't see any player right now breaking through between Miller, DT, Stewart, Maya, Holdsclaw and Parker (not in order). These 6 were scary-great. IMO these 6 are Tier 1. I can see Clark breaking in if ofc if she wins it all or maybe if she loses but in FF loses to a super team and she was pretty much unstoppable. It would be possibly my bias circumsatnce depending on getting to that final week.

As far as Iowa-- I don't care but -- no way would I be "almost as happy" if Iowa won rather than UCONN. I can care less about Iowa speaking in a fun way.

 

[Twelve]

Same "no championship" argument against Caitlin Clark should be used against Paige Bueckers in UConn Mount Rushmore discussions, if UConn does not win a national championship with her.

UConn will be loaded next season, if healthy. Paige will have more talented teammates than Caitlin has had. Paige has All American Edwards this season. Caitlin does not.

UConn won a national championship with Renee, Tina, and Maya. UConn won another NC with Tina, and Maya. UConn did not win a championship with Maya, Tiff, Faris, Dolson, and Hartley. That is the talent that Caitlin has played with.

Takes a team to win NC. Taurasi had help her junior and senior seasons. Just not All American help.

 

[Twelve]

Maya statistics are eerily similar to Chamique. Source:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/

Zero championships are the argument against Caitlin Clark being top 10 player, for some BYers. Three championships should give Chamique edge over Maya, even though championships are a team accomplishment.

	NC	G	FG%	2P%	3P%	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	PTS
Maya	2	154	0.525	0.589	0.404	0.798	1276	544	310	204	3036
Chamique	3	148	0.510	0.526	0.254	0.715	1295	386	307	115	3025

 

[Kaizen]

Maya: Now I only care my husband and my son.

 

[Twelve]

Yeah, I personally would not rank any player who hasn't won at least one NC in the top 10. There's been so many talented WBB players throughout many decades (and will always be more to come), there has to be at least some kind of qualifiers to classify the best of the best.

Championships are team accomplishments. Football is the ultimate team sport. 11 moving players on each team on every play.

Unlike the NBA, NHL, and MLB, offensive players do not play defense in the NFL. And vice versa. Name the last true two way player in the NFL, who played at least 50% of snaps on both sides of the ball for an entire season.

Eli Manning does not sniff the NFL Hall of Fame, if the NY Giants defense did not hold the NE Patriots offense with Tom Brady to 14 and 17 points in Super Bowls 42 and 46.

Now back to discussing women's college basketball championships and top 10 players.

 

[Twelve]

I can't see any player right now breaking through between Miller, DT, Stewart, Maya, Holdsclaw and Parker (not in order). These 6 were scary-great. IMO these 6 are Tier 1. I can see Clark breaking in if ofc if she wins it all or maybe if she loses but in FF loses to a super team and she was pretty much unstoppable. It would be possibly my bias circumsatnce depending on getting to that final week.

As far as Iowa-- I don't care but -- no way would I be "almost as happy" if Iowa won rather than UCONN. I can care less about Iowa speaking in a fun way.

By the end of February 2024, Caitlin Clark will have over 3600 points, over 1000 assists, and over 900 rebounds. No other player has ever had 3000, 1000, and 800. How is Caitlin Clark not scary good?


You mentioned Candace Parker. She tweeted "41 dude who does that?" after Caitlin Clark scored 41 points in the Final Four semi final against previously undefeated South Carolina. It was Caitlin's second of back to back 40+ point games.

https://hawkeyeswire.usatoday.com/lists/iowa-basketball-sports-stars-media-react-caitlin-clark-final-four-ncaa-tournament-prowess/


National Championships are team accomplishments. Games are not played one versus five.

Nine of UConn's national championship teams had at least two WBCA All Americans. Same for AP All Americans. Source is the 2023-4 UConn Media Guide on pages 115 and 116.


No disrespect to Lisa Bluder, but is she on the same coaching level as Geno Auriemma, Pat Summitt, Tara VanDeerver, Kim Mulkey, and Dawn Staley?

Head coaching does make a difference in March Madness. Otherwise, what is all the fuss about Geno?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Parker was a great player, but her college career was only 3 years long. Thus, her accomplishments were limited. I’d move her down in the ranking.

 

[VA Huskie]

Right back to you, hoophuskee.

I agree with virtually everything you say, just not your synopsis.

Anyway, when I wrote that, I knew it'd be spitting into the wind with many here. That's okay. You make convincing points, likely in agreement with most here.

By the way, my favorite b-ball player has been Tim Duncan, at the start because he was a Deacon, then increasingly over the years because of his remarkable success built on both his individual talents and his unselfish nature.

Not coincidentally, as far as I'm concerned, Tim never won a national title at Wake because he just didn't have the teammates around him, yet I believe most supposed experts would call him one of the all-time best men's college basketball players. My point there is I just believe much of the antipathy toward Caitlin on the BY is because she's taken the torch from the injury-plagued Paige and run with it.

Anyway, thanks for keeping the good conversation going...

Go, Huskies! It's halftime of yet another Big East blowout.

Personally, I really don’t agree with the “antipathy toward Catlin” related to Paige comment. I love Caitlin. And I sure wish we’d been able to see a healthy Paige for the past 4 years. Paige was better as a freshman. We don’t know if that would have continued. I remember watching Caitlin as a freshman and thinking - she shoots a lot and has too many turnovers, but boy is she exciting to watch. Anyway, I don’t think this discussion has anything to do with the so called antipathy towards Caitlin - at least not for me.

 

[osceola48]

NO QUESTION, Maya belongs on the list, and near the top of it! Also, you can't quantify "style", but Maya had the most beautiful game. I'll never forget her finger-roll layups.
Another issue with this list - why the top seven? Why not eight or ten or fifteen? Maybe the author only listed those who he/she thought ranked higher than Caitlin?

 

[huskyd]

I've always used as my measure the answer to the question of what player would you choose to start a team from scratch. Stewie has always been the answer to that question, and she remains so in my mind. But I've never seen a more amazing player in every aspect of the game than Caitlin. It doesn't seem fair to the girl because she couldn't (and won't) deliver a championship to Iowa. One player rarely can. EDD elevated Delaware into some notoriety, but her greatness only got them so far. Doesn't diminish EDD in any way; there are 4 other players out there . . .
Here's my corollary query: who would you most like to watch play? Difficult to NOT say Caitlin.

 

[Kaizen]

Here's my corollary query: who would you most like to watch play? Difficult to NOT say Caitlin.

My answer is Maya. Caitlin is very good but in between Maya and Caitlin I will choice to watch Maya. .....jmho

 

[The deacon]

Here's my corollary query: who would you most like to watch play? Difficult to NOT say Caitlin.

My answer is Maya. Caitlin is very good but in between Maya and Caitlin I will choice to watch Maya. .....jmho

As you probably both know, Caitlin's favorite player as she grew up was Maya...