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Spoelstra and LeBron....

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I don't know how people hate on Skip. I think it's just an act and he and Stephen A play their roles brilliantly.
 
JaYnYcE said:
I don't know how people hate on Skip. I think it's just an act and he and Stephen A play their roles brilliantly.
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I agree but right now Skip is getting schooled by Mark Cuban
 
UCFBfan said:
I agree but right now Skip is getting schooled by Mark Cuban
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I can't wait until its uploaded online later on. Skip is the only reason why I watch anything on ESPN.
 
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UConn990411 said:
That explains everything I need to know about you.

Skip Bayless is a self-made caricature. You have to be brain dead to actually enjoy listening to him.
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I can at least respect this guy saying that he likes Bayless. What is absurd is the amount of people saying "I hate stupid Skip Bayless, I don't get how anyone likes him, but I gotta see how he spins this tomorrow." I can't even watch Sportscenter/First Take or any of those shows unless Uconn did something awesome.

As for the role players, I wouldn't exactly say Harden was exposed because he was great in the other series. I think guarding Lebron took a lot out of him. He has exposed himself as not being a max contract guy even though he will probably get one but he is still probably the 3rd or 4th best SG in the league and is 22 or 23.

Ibaka had played really well the rest of the playoffs as well. He is a great rim protector but when he is stuck playing Bosh he is drawn outside and can be exploited. Again, he is 23 I believe and is an elite rim protector who has went from having no offensive game to a money mid range shot in the course of 2 years. I am still high on him.

I hope this loss just makes the core want to stay together and these guys take a little less money. As for Perkins, he is a great guy to have in some matchups but against other teams like the Heat he really adds nothing.
 
based on my twitter feed, it sounds like Marc Cuban is destroying Skip & Screaming A
 
Perkis blows, the Thunder need to sign Ibaka and whatever they do don't give Harden a max deal and yes Cuban made Skip and Stephen A. look like 2nd graders.
 
UConn990411 said:
That explains everything I need to know about you.

Skip Bayless is a self-made caricature. You have to be brain dead to actually enjoy listening to him.
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No, you just have to see things differently than others.
 
superjohn said:
Perkis blows, the Thunder need to sign Ibaka and whatever they do don't give Harden a max deal and yes Cuban made Skip and Stephen A. look like 2nd graders.
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I'm one of the few Celtics fans who didn't hate the Perkins trade, but you and ace are being ridiculous now. He is a really good low-post defender who did a pretty good job shutting Duncan down in the WCF (and limiting Bynum the series before that.

I don't miss Perkins that much because I can count on one hand the guy's he is valuable against these days (Howard, Bynum, Duncan, Hibbert). Plus, the Celtics' best lineups the past five years (including the year they won the ship) were always with KG at the 5 and Perkins on the bench. But he isn't nearly as bad as you and ace (who clearly just hates Perk) are trying to make him out to be.
 
JaYnYcE said:
I don't know how people hate on Skip. I think it's just an act and he and Stephen A play their roles brilliantly.
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Because I, like most people, turn on ESPN to see highlights, news and rumor (a Adam Schefter type person) and expert analysis. For expert analysis, I want to hear from people who have been part of the sport as a player, coach, or some other meaningful role. Or I would like to hear from people who just know the sport extremely well, and although they may not have had the god-given abilities to play the sport, have loved sports their entire life, and really understand the game at an extremely high level (like a Bill Simmons type person). Hell, it doesn't even need to be that much of an expert. The guys on Around the Horn clearly know their stuff and do a lot of research, and I can appreciate the factoids and whatnot that they use in their arguments. I don't care whatsoever to hear some guy who seemingly is not an expert in any way, and is there entirely to spark controversy. I'll tune into MTV and Jersey Shore if I want scripted drama.

So that's why I hate on Skip. Because I turn on MTV when I want scripted drama, not ESPN. (Not that I would turn on MTV, but you get the point).
 
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They left no doubt. They earned it and LBJ was superb. I am not a Heat fan, but they spanked the Thunder. Unfortunately, the Thunder forget that Defense wins championships. With the Defense the Celtics play, if they had younger legs and Bradley they would have won. The Heat will be a magnet for older players looking for a ring. Hey Ray, hey Lamar, hey Nash oh my.
 
From what I saw this series it was simple. Lebron plus four is better than any five on every team they played. As for the coach, well its redemption for him, whether he's good or not.

To believe Rodney King just died and we all still can't get along.
 
rman726 said:
Because I, like most people, turn on ESPN to see highlights, news and rumor (a Adam Schefter type person) and expert analysis. For expert analysis, I want to hear from people who have been part of the sport as a player, coach, or some other meaningful role. Or I would like to hear from people who just know the sport extremely well, and although they may not have had the god-given abilities to play the sport, have loved sports their entire life, and really understand the game at an extremely high level (like a Bill Simmons type person). Hell, it doesn't even need to be that much of an expert. The guys on Around the Horn clearly know their stuff and do a lot of research, and I can appreciate the factoids and whatnot that they use in their arguments. I don't care whatsoever to hear some guy who seemingly is not an expert in any way, and is there entirely to spark controversy. I'll tune into MTV and Jersey Shore if I want scripted drama.

So that's why I hate on Skip. Because I turn on MTV when I want scripted drama, not ESPN. (Not that I would turn on MTV, but you get the point).
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To each his own. However, Skip has been a journalist for nearly 30 years, that makes him an expert. He has more experience in covering most of the popular sports like basketball, football and boxing than most of the people you mentioned. ESPN wants their viewers to think a certain way and its refreshing to hear someone else say something different.

Try watching sportcenter or listening to ESPN radio on a popular topic and its very rare that you find someone who disagrees with the majority as much as Skip does.
 
walker11 said:
I can at least respect this guy saying that he likes Bayless. What is absurd is the amount of people saying "I hate stupid Skip Bayless, I don't get how anyone likes him, but I gotta see how he spins this tomorrow." I can't even watch Sportscenter/First Take or any of those shows unless Uconn did something awesome.

As for the role players, I wouldn't exactly say Harden was exposed because he was great in the other series. I think guarding Lebron took a lot out of him. He has exposed himself as not being a max contract guy even though he will probably get one but he is still probably the 3rd or 4th best SG in the league and is 22 or 23.

Ibaka had played really well the rest of the playoffs as well. He is a great rim protector but when he is stuck playing Bosh he is drawn outside and can be exploited. Again, he is 23 I believe and is an elite rim protector who has went from having no offensive game to a money mid range shot in the course of 2 years. I am still high on him.

I hope this loss just makes the core want to stay together and these guys take a little less money. As for Perkins, he is a great guy to have in some matchups but against other teams like the Heat he really adds nothing.
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The Heat did not do anything to expose Harden as some may think, he simply had a very bad series. Game Four is a great example as Harden had atleast 3 wide open looks from three and missed them all. I think some people forget the run he went on in the first half of Game two where he simply took the game over with Westbrook and Durant out. This was just a uncharacteristicly terrible series for Harden as he missed so many shots he usually makes, still worthy of the Max in my eyes and he'll get it if he hits the open market.
 
superjohn said:
Perkis blows, the Thunder need to sign Ibaka and whatever they do don't give Harden a max deal and yes Cuban made Skip and Stephen A. look like 2nd graders.
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So you are saying Cuban made Bayless and Smith look smarter than they really are?
 
SlicinNDyson11 said:
The Heat did not do anything to expose Harden as some may think, he simply had a very bad series. Game Four is a great example as Harden had atleast 3 wide open looks from three and missed them all. I think some people forget the run he went on in the first half of Game two where he simply took the game over with Westbrook and Durant out. This was just a uncharacteristicly terrible series for Harden as he missed so many shots he usually makes, still worthy of the Max in my eyes and he'll get it if he hits the open market.
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Harden was in an impossible spot on the defensive end. He was guarding lebron in the mid-post giving up 50 lbs and 4+ inches. often, he was caught doing that for the entire second half of games. If you are a shooter and constantly getting posted, that is going to affect your shooting stroke bigtime.

With that burden being clear, he had a HORRIBLE offensive series. MIA did a great job of throwing small quick guys at him to negate his driving ability(Chalmers/Cole) and bigger guys to keep him out of the paint on pick n roll(bosh, lebron).

Really it was just a clinic, and it placed a huge burden on the two superstars
 
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Harden is a good player but the more I watch him it's obvious that he isn't a star and only stars should get max money. He has no left hand and is shaky overall with his dribbling. He's good in the open court but his lack of explosiveness can make it difficult for him to finish at the rim, he's a tough guy to figure out if you are young and inexperienced because he's crafty but veterans can figure him out in a long series, he holds the ball out and drives/flops into you trying to draw contact at weird angles. He's a much poorer version of Manu Ginobili.
 
superjohn said:
Harden is a good player but the more I watch him it's obvious that he isn't a star and only stars should get max money. He has no left hand and is shaky overall with his dribbling. He's good in the open court but his lack of explosiveness can make it difficult for him to finish at the rim, he's a tough guy to figure out if you are young and inexperienced because he's crafty but veterans can figure him out in a long series, he holds the ball out and drives/flops into you trying to draw contact at weird angles. He's a much poorer version of Manu Ginobili.
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Has no left hand... lol... I'll assume you mean right since he is LEFT HANDED.

I don't like the Ginobili reference, who is much more finesse. I really think the more apt comparison is a smaller more athletic Paul Pierce. And he's 22, so i think it is fair to say he will only get better.

He's going to be a top 20 offensive player for a long time, people need to not overreact to a 22 year old getting tight in his first finals series. Do you not remember what he did(again, at 22) to the spurs?

C'mon folks, perspective please
 
Think you mean no right hand, Harden is a lefty. Officials caught on to his game as the playoffs progressed. In the lakers series he was getting all kind of calls when he would eurostep into people or run right into people and flop. In the spurs series refs figured his game out and stopped giving him the bogus foul calls. Also the heat played brilliant defense on him seem like they really watch tape on him and made him uncomfortable out there.
 
Harden isnt a max player but someone is going to give him max money. I heard a rumor they might trade him for the number two pick. Not the worse idea if they feel they cant resign him.
 
LeBron was brilliant in that series, but I think it's silly to claim that he needed to win a ring to cement his name alongside the all-time greats. The fact that it took LeBron nine years to win a ring takes nothing away from his individual greatness, and does nothing more than re-enforce the age-old hypothesis that a great team wins out over a great player.

LeBron's always been a great player, the difference between this year and years past is that this is his first time playing on a great team. Unlike his days in Cleveland, LeBron had two guys by his side he felt comfortable penciling in for 20+ a night. Oftentimes, LeBron had to manufacture points for his teammates beause there was really nobody else on those teams who could consistently create for themselves. Even the best players only control 20-25% of the action on the court, if that. Anybody who has the nerve to assess the Cavs-Magic 2009 series (in which LBJ averaged 38-8-8 on 49% shooting) and claim that LeBron played like anything less than a champion deserves to have their analyist hat revoked, period. Even during the 2010 Boston series, when people claimed he quit, LeBron put fourth some heroic efforts. These were instances of LeBron's teammates failing him in the aspects of the game he could not control. I don't think there has ever been an example in which a team who was thoroughly outclassed at three of the five positions (like Cleveland was against Boston in 2010) managed to win the series. Yet, people still condemn him for leaving Cleveland and putting himself in a better position to win a ring.

Kobe Bryant, arguably one of the ten greatest to ever play the game, wouldn't have had enough around him to get past the second round on some of those Cleveland teams, in my opinion. It's a testament to LeBron's overall body of greatness that he managed to haul a shoddy supporting cast at best to two eastern conference finals and an NBA finals appearance.

In regards to Harden, one bad series isn't enough to completely minimize my opinion of him as a player. He hasn't been consistent enough to be labeled one of the best 20-25 players in the league, but at age 22, he's shown enough flashes of greatness to be fairly considered a max contract type player.
 
champs99and04 said:
LeBron was brilliant in that series, but I think it's silly to claim that he needed to win a ring to cement his name alongside the all-time greats. The fact that it took LeBron nine years to win a ring takes nothing away from his individual greatness, and does nothing more than re-enforce the age-old hypothesis that a great team wins out over a great player.

LeBron's always been a great player, the difference between this year and years past is that this is his first time playing on a great team. Unlike his days in Cleveland, LeBron had two guys by his side he felt comfortable penciling in for 20+ a night. Oftentimes, LeBron had to manufacture points for his teammates beause there was really nobody else on those teams who could consistently create for themselves. Even the best players only control 20-25% of the action on the court, if that. Anybody who has the nerve to assess the Cavs-Magic 2009 series (in which LBJ averaged 38-8-8 on 49% shooting) and claim that LeBron played like anything less than a champion deserves to have their analyist hat revoked, period. Even during the 2010 Boston series, when people claimed he quit, LeBron put fourth some heroic efforts. These were instances of LeBron's teammates failing him in the aspects of the game he could not control. I don't think there has ever been an example in which a team who was thoroughly outclassed at three of the five positions (like Cleveland was against Boston in 2010) managed to win the series. Yet, people still condemn him for leaving Cleveland and putting himself in a better position to win a ring.

Kobe Bryant, arguably one of the ten greatest to ever play the game, wouldn't have had enough around him to get past the second round on some of those Cleveland teams, in my opinion. It's a testament to LeBron's overall body of greatness that he managed to haul a shoddy supporting cast at best to two eastern conference finals and an NBA finals appearance.
In regards to Harden, one bad series isn't enough to completely minimize my opinion of him as a player. He hasn't been consistent enough to be labeled one of the best 20-25 players in the league, but at age 22, he's shown enough flashes of greatness to be fairly considered a max contract type player.
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I'll say it again: he was already great. No one said he wasn't. But he needed a ring to be considered among the the very top (possibly even GOAT by the time he's all said and done).

There was a difference in the level of his play, starting with game 4 of the Indy series. That's when, imo, he achieved that next level. He found the mental toughness, drive and willingness to do whatever it takes (and knowing what it is that needed doing) to sustain and prevail consistently, every night. He faded in the 4th of game 1, and that's the only time they lost in the Finals. I think it's silly to say that he's been doing it all along with different results, when that's not the been case--at least not consistently, all game, every game. No one ever doubted his physical ability, but his head wasn't always there. Now it is. He played and defended almost every position in this series, and he excelled at all of them. He deserves to considered among the best of the best, because now he is.
 
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I think its safe to put Lebron in the top 10 of all time now, in order to be top 5 he needs to win multiple championships heres my top 5 of all time

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Russell
 
Scoe said:
I think its safe to put Lebron in the top 10 of all time now, in order to be top 5 he needs to win multiple championships heres my top 5 of all time

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Russell
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Thank you for not having Kobe there...

I pretty much agree with this list of all-time greats.
 
8893 said:
I'll say it again: he was already great. No one said he wasn't. But he needed a ring to be considered among the the very top (possibly even GOAT by the time he's all said and done).

There was a difference in the level of his play, starting with game 4 of the Indy series. That's when, imo, he achieved that next level. He found the mental toughness, drive and willingness to do whatever it takes (and knowing what it is that needed doing) to sustain and prevail consistently, every night. He faded in the 4th of game 1, and that's the only time they lost in the Finals. I think it's silly to say that he's been doing it all along with different results, when that's not the been case--at least not consistently, all game, every game. No one ever doubted his physical ability, but his head wasn't always there. Now it is. He played and defended almost every position in this series, and he excelled at all of them. He deserves to considered among the best of the best, because now he is.
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That's where I disagree, though. Did LeBron display any less toughness/drive/willingness to do whatever it took to win when he was putting up 39/8/8 in the Magic seies a few years ago? Was he not consistent enough to win a ring in 2009 when he averaged 35/9/7 on 51% shooting throughout an entire postseason? Did he want to win any less when he was scoring 29 of the final 30 points against Detroit in 2007, or when he was going 1 on 3 against three hall of famers in 2008, or when he put up a 26, 18, and 10 against Boston in an elimination game in 2010?

I'm sure my opinion differs from many others, but I don't think legends are legends because they win rings. They win rings naturally as a product of being legends. If LeBron never won a ring, it wouldn't have made him any less great - it would have made him a historical anoymaly among legends.
 
champs99and04 said:
That's where I disagree, though. Did LeBron display any less toughness/drive/willingness to do whatever it took to win when he was putting up 39/8/8 in the Magic seies a few years ago? Was he not consistent enough to win a ring in 2009 when he averaged 35/9/7 on 51% shooting throughout an entire postseason? Did he want to win any less when he was scoring 29 of the final 30 points against Detroit in 2007, or when he was going 1 on 3 against three hall of famers in 2008, or when he put up a 26, 18, and 10 against Boston in an elimination game in 2010?

I'm sure my opinion differs from many others, but I don't think legends are legends because they win rings. They win rings naturally as a product of being legends. If LeBron never won a ring, it wouldn't have made him any less great - it would have made him a historical anoymaly among legends.
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I more or less agree. He would have gone down as an all-time great no matter what.

BUT, I do think that you don't want to go down as the great one that didn't win a title. Peyton Manning is an all time great no matter what, but I'm sure he slept better after winning a title. Dan Marino is undoubtably one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, but...
 
bmayuc said:
Has no left hand... lol... I'll assume you mean right since he is LEFT HANDED.

I don't like the Ginobili reference, who is much more finesse. I really think the more apt comparison is a smaller more athletic Paul Pierce. And he's 22, so i think it is fair to say he will only get better.

He's going to be a top 20 offensive player for a long time, people need to not overreact to a 22 year old getting tight in his first finals series. Do you not remember what he did(again, at 22) to the spurs?

C'mon folks, perspective please
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Good point. Remember what Lebron did in his first finals against Dallas?
 
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