South Carolina survives UCLA

[ochoopsfan]

Tell Dorka and Edwards to duck!!

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I posted in the chat least year before the NC game that I thought containing Henderson was the key. Clearly Uconn failed at that. But with her gone, this team looks different.

I firmly believe that the recipe to beating SCar this year is to have the height to secure defensive rebounds.

If Beal and Cooke are going to continue to get major minutes, I’d force them to beat you from the 3 point line. Cooke is a gamble because she appears streaky on a game by game basis. It appears to my eye that you’d give her the 3 but want to limit the midrange, where she’s more effective.

Pack in the paint to force them to beat you from the outside. The caveat is securing defensive rebounds. As Carolyn Peck said last night, sometimes for South Carolina, shooting a jump shot is as good as an assist for them. Their length is staggering.

I disagree. I think the recipe is three fold: 1) Guard pressure to cause turnovers 2) 3pt Shooting 2) Transition off of defensive rebounds or opponents baskets from offensive rebounds

These guards don't have great handles or passing ability but the game plan is always to pack the paint so they rarely face any pressure defense. Pressuring them, while counterintuitive, will cause live or dead ball turnovers far better than a missed shot. Obviously they won't turn it over every possession so it has to be a mix of packing the paint and heavy pressure but I think sagging off the back court so much the whole game is a mistake most teams have been making.

If you are able to get a 3pt game going you can neutralize their front court advantage by exchanging 2s for 3's. They are a great defensive team and long so this isn't as easy as it looks but Stanford and UCLA both got excellent looks throughout the game from 3.

When you do get a defensive rebound or they score off of an offensive rebound, or immediately push into transition. South Carolina looks pretty slow going up and down the court in every game I've seen of them. An easy way to at least pull their guards away from crashing the boards is punishing them with transition whenever you can. There will be ample opportunities here.

While defensive rebounding is important, I think you can win while losing the battle on the boards if you off set it in other areas.

 

[#1florida]

Tell Dorka and Edwards to duck!!

Carolyn Peck is a cheer leader for Boston, and SC. The defender was holding her arm and it slipped off and hit her in the face. I had to pause, to laugh. That is like hitting someone's fist with your jaw.

 

[TheFarmFan]

This is not a criticism of Dawn Staley, who has proven more than capable of coaching an offense that involves motion, passing and shooting. But this SC team is not very pretty to watch on offense. They grind teams down with their size and strength.

The Gamecocks play great defense, to be sure. But on offense they basically pound the ball inside, or throw up a shot and crash the boards in waves. They play a style very similar to Pat Summit’s old TN teams.

While SC is not very pretty to watch, they are very effective, and certainly the odds on favorite to win back-to-back national championships.

Yeah, they're really missing Henny, who really facilitated their offense from the back court. I still think they're the team to beat because they're just so terrific lock down defenders down the stretch, but they look beatable. Really excited for the UConn game - that'll be a real litmus test for both teams.

 

[Tonyc]

A couple of differences why UCLA lost. Cardoso was a mismatch enabling SC to toss the ball inside and she could drop the ball in the basket. A taller defender on her and that may not happen. Cardoso could also reach over the top of UCLA players and get rebounds and put backs. Against a taller player that may not happen. On their fast breaks I think something like 6 blocked shots on the dribble drive to the basket. How bout drive and dish off to a trailer or take a pull up jumper.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Carolyn Peck is a cheer leader for Boston, and SC. The defender was holding her arm and it slipped off and hit her in the face. I had to pause, to laugh. That is like hitting someone's fist with your jaw.

The officiating was TERBL! Having said that, I thought this was a basketball move. If 3 officials need to take as long as they did to determine intent or excessiveness, then that's a pretty good sign that...it wasn't. There are plenty of other legit fouls Boston committed that weren't called. And other fouls charged to her defenders (poor # 35) that made my draw drop.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

A couple of differences why UCLA lost. Cardoso was a mismatch enabling SC to toss the ball inside and she could drop the ball in the basket. A taller defender on her and that may not happen. Cardoso could also reach over the top of UCLA players and get rebounds and put backs. Against a taller player that may not happen. On their fast breaks I think something like 6 blocked shots on the dribble drive to the basket. How bout drive and dish off to a trailer or take a pull up jumper.

How about not passing up the shot? OR...have these kids ever heard of a ball or pump fake?!

 

[CL82]

I must have missed the part in the rules that says contact by an elbow to the opposing players head is permissible when “it’s a basketball play.”

 

[oldude]

Carolyn Peck is a cheer leader for Boston, and SC. The defender was holding her arm and it slipped off and hit her in the face. I had to pause, to laugh. That is like hitting someone's fist with your jaw.

I started yelling at the TV when Peck repeatedly advanced her bizarre theory that somehow Boston’s elbow to the face of the defender was the result of the defender unhooking her arm from Boston, causing the momentum of Boston’s arm to hit her in the face. It was an extraordinary gaslighting effort by Peck.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

The officiating was TERBL! Having said that, I thought this was a basketball move. If 3 officials need to take as long as they did to determine intent or excessiveness, then that's a pretty good sign that...it wasn't. There are plenty of other legit fouls Boston committed that weren't called. And other fouls charged to her defenders (poor # 35) that made my draw drop.

Its always should be a technical to elbow someone in the face. She was clearing pace out with her elbows, exactly why these technical rules were put into place because they shouldn't be basketball moves. They are dangerous and could cause serious injury.

 

[darrell]

Found out Dee Kantner was officiating last night’s game and everything started to make sense.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Its always should be a technical to elbow someone in the face. She was clearing pace out with her elbows, exactly why these technical rules were put into place because they shouldn't be basketball moves. They are dangerous and could cause serious injury.

She had her elbows up and turned into a basketball move. If the defender were shorter or taller, then she would not have contacted her face. There are tons of incidental contact in basketball. If the tech were automatic, which it isn't, then they would not have had such a long review. If someone is going for a rebound and someone gets hit in the face on the gather...is that a tech? How about two players going for a loose ball and one or even both make head-to-head contact? Is that a tech? Not necessarily.

 

[Rb335]

I disagree. I think the recipe is three fold: 1) Guard pressure to cause turnovers 2) 3pt Shooting 2) Transition off of defensive rebounds or opponents baskets from offensive rebounds

These guards don't have great handles or passing ability but the game plan is always to pack the paint so they rarely face any pressure defense. Pressuring them, while counterintuitive, will cause live or dead ball turnovers far better than a missed shot. Obviously they won't turn it over every possession so it has to be a mix of packing the paint and heavy pressure but I think sagging off the back court so much the whole game is a mistake most teams have been making.

If you are able to get a 3pt game going you can neutralize their front court advantage by exchanging 2s for 3's. They are a great defensive team and long so this isn't as easy as it looks but Stanford and UCLA both got excellent looks throughout the game from 3.

When you do get a defensive rebound or they score off of an offensive rebound, or immediately push into transition. South Carolina looks pretty slow going up and down the court in every game I've seen of them. An easy way to at least pull their guards away from crashing the boards is punishing them with transition whenever you can. There will be ample opportunities here.

While defensive rebounding is important, I think you can win while losing the battle on the boards if you off set it in other areas.

Definitely raise some good opinions that I hadn’t contemplated. Pressuring the guards as another way to effectively limit the interior sounds like a good plan as well. Especially in an effort to try to generate fast break offense.
Maybe a junk defense approach with spurts of high pressure, then a sagging zone to keep them off balance.

Agreed on 3 point shooting, was more referencing the defensive approach to winning. UConn’s ability to hit the 3 will be critical, as interior baskets could be harder to come by.

Still think rebounding is huge though. It eliminates a big portion of their offense. Last year SC scored 17 and 22 second chance points in our two meetings. Uconn scored 2 and 5. Puts a lot of pressure on you to be extremely efficient in those scenarios.

In the early season game, we were outrebounded 42-25, giving them 17 more fga. But also had more turnovers, less made 3s. Didn’t do ourselves any favors. In the NC game, a we got outrebounded 49-24. Fga weren’t as uneven, but their 26 FTA was part of the story. Again, we didn’t win the TO battle.

Sorry for rambling, but as I got further into it, I can’t help but feel like the aspects of both of our posts are very important. Efficient shooting, causing turnovers, and being closer to even in the rebounding battle give you a good shot.

 

[Centerstream]

Carolyn Peck is a cheer leader for Boston, and SC. The defender was holding her arm and it slipped off and hit her in the face. I had to pause, to laugh. That is like hitting someone's fist with your jaw.

I started yelling at the TV when Peck repeatedly advanced her bizarre theory that somehow Boston’s elbow to the face of the defender was the result of the defender unhooking her arm from Boston, causing the momentum of Boston’s arm to hit her in the face. It was an extraordinary gaslighting effort by Peck.

I was waiting for the announcers to have a zoom call with Deb Antonelli to get her "perspective" on this on court action.

 

[Centerstream]

Found out Dee Kantner was officiating last night’s game and everything started to make sense.

I said the same thing in the chat room but of course I was being paranoid.

 

[LoTrader]

UCLA is for real. UCLA can win the PAC-12. And South Carolina can be beat, no question.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

She had her elbows up and turned into a basketball move. If the defender were shorter or taller, then she would not have contacted her face. There are tons of incidental contact in basketball. If the tech were automatic, which it isn't, then they would not have had such a long review. If someone is going for a rebound and someone gets hit in the face on the gather...is that a tech? How about two players going for a loose ball and one or even both make head-to-head contact? Is that a tech? Not necessarily.

You don't seem very familiar with the technical rules. Its all about the ELBOWs in the face. If you elbow someone in the face going up for a rebound, that is a technical. Doesn't matter if it was a basketball move or not.

A long review doesn't mean it wasn't black or white, they could have been reviewing what level of tech she needed to get.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Definitely raise some good opinions that I hadn’t contemplated. Pressuring the guards as another way to effectively limit the interior sounds like a good plan as well. Especially in an effort to try to generate fast break offense.
Maybe a junk defense approach with spurts of high pressure, then a sagging zone to keep them off balance.

Agreed on 3 point shooting, was more referencing the defensive approach to winning. UConn’s ability to hit the 3 will be critical, as interior baskets could be harder to come by.

Still think rebounding is huge though. It eliminates a big portion of their offense. Last year SC scored 17 and 22 second chance points in our two meetings. Uconn scored 2 and 5. Puts a lot of pressure on you to be extremely efficient in those scenarios.

In the early season game, we were outrebounded 42-25, giving them 17 more fga. But also had more turnovers, less made 3s. Didn’t do ourselves any favors. In the NC game, a we got outrebounded 49-24. Fga weren’t as uneven, but their 26 FTA was part of the story. Again, we didn’t win the TO battle.

Sorry for rambling, but as I got further into it, I can’t help but feel like the aspects of both of our posts are very important. Efficient shooting, causing turnovers, and being closer to even in the rebounding battle give you a good shot.

We are saying similar things. I am just saying that narrowing the rebound margin will be done more effectively through points 1 and 3 than just pure rebounding. You don't need to win the rebounding battle and you should be realistic that they will score off their offensive boards. I just think teams get so caught up in eliminating South Carolina's strengths they don't exploit the weaknesses that are opened up by them. So instead of securing defensive rebounds being the key - making it more difficult for them to get offensive rebounds by forcing turnovers and using transition.

 

[sharris25]

Its always should be a technical to elbow someone in the face. She was clearing pace out with her elbows, exactly why these technical rules were put into place because they shouldn't be basketball moves. They are dangerous and could cause serious injury.

So I guess physically holding Boston's are down is with two hands is not a foul. For everyone that wants more fouls called on Boston and even Aja, when she was here, having you every taken an objective look at the number of uncalled fouls against them on the sagging zones. We have seen players with two players with both of their arms physically pushing and grabbing these two to no end. It is lucky that neither have a mean streak or someone might have been laid out before now.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

You don't seem very familiar with the technical rules. Its all about the ELBOWs in the face. If you elbow someone in the face going up for a rebound, that is a technical. Doesn't matter if it was a basketball move or not.

A long review doesn't mean it wasn't black or white, they could have been reviewing what level of tech she needed to get.

ok

 

[hoopsnloops32]

So I guess physically holding Boston's are down is with two hands is not a foul. For everyone that wants more fouls called on Boston and even Aja, when she was here, having you every taken an objective look at the number of uncalled fouls against them on the sagging zones. We have seen players with two players with both of their arms physically pushing and grabbing these two to no end. It is lucky that neither have a mean streak or someone might have been laid out before now.

It is a foul lol but being fouled doesn't give people carte blanche to elbow others in the face. Two things can be true - Boston was getting fouled and in response Boston committed a technical foul. She also was called for fouling but AFTER she fouled and during a layup when she wasn't actually being fouled. Strange complaint on this one.

 

[cancontent]

So I guess physically holding Boston's are down is with two hands is not a foul. For everyone that wants more fouls called on Boston and even Aja, when she was here, having you every taken an objective look at the number of uncalled fouls against them on the sagging zones. We have seen players with two players with both of their arms physically pushing and grabbing these two to no end. It is lucky that neither have a mean streak or someone might have been laid out before now.

It is a foul lol but being fouled doesn't give people carte blanche to elbow others in the face. Two things can be true - Boston was getting fouled and in response Boston committed a technical foul. She also was called for fouling but AFTER she fouled and during a layup when she wasn't actually being fouled. Strange complaint on this one.

Both perspectives can be true. The refs got the calls right. Bessoir was tagged for a foul because she bumped Boston out of position while taking the shot. Boston got the basket and the free throw for the continuation.

For all that is being said about Peck's comments, she has a point. Post players, especially those as tall as Boston, Cardoso, etc., have a disadvantage when being defended by players shorter in these situations. How Boston was positioned is how post players are coached. How Bessoir defended her is how players are coached to do. However, when the arm comes in contact with the head/above the neck, it has to be called. Doesn't matter if Bessoir's arm slipped.

 

[jumpstart]

So...South Carolina wins on a bad night and that makes them beatable ? I think you could say that about any team. They win with their defense and it's been that way for years. They will shut you down just when you think you have the game in hand. Both of their losses last year were last shot losses.....come on....the tournament is where defense counts the most.

 

[eebmg]

Tell Dorka and Edwards to duck!!

or you can add some studs to Aaliyah's mask.

 

[CocoHusky]

A couple of differences why UCLA lost. Cardoso was a mismatch enabling SC to toss the ball inside and she could drop the ball in the basket. A taller defender on her and that may not happen. Cardoso could also reach over the top of UCLA players and get rebounds and put backs. Against a taller player that may not happen. On their fast breaks I think something like 6 blocked shots on the dribble drive to the basket. How bout drive and dish off to a trailer or take a pull up jumper.

Cardoso is shooting almost 70% on the season exclusively on shots like that. She was 8 of 11 in this game. She is also 6'7" while the tallest UCLA player is 6'4". With her and Boston you have to give yourself a chance by: Pressuring the passer, push her off the sweet spot so that she is not at the basket when she catches the ball, have the weak side pre-rotate on the pass to be in good defensive position when she catches. That way she has to finish over you or plow you over. You also have to be quick to the ball so as not to give her two shots.