South Carolina scored 7 points in the 1st Q

[huskyd]

Some of the SC fans here speak of the Gamecocks as a dynasty: "It's no longer enough for us to show up and blah, blah, blah." Truth is they're a recent phenomenon in the manner of many schools that had a good year or two and then were never heard/seen from again. I'm not suggesting that SC won't have a good program going forward, but let's not equate their current status with a permanent role. Geno has said that he'd rather play a team with good bigs than a team with good guards. Shortly, his wish comes true.

 

[EricSD]

I thought it was a well fought game - sort of like a chess match. Yeah, there was way too much 1 on 1 basketball for my taste, and the lack of offense, especially between 2 top 10 teams was appalling, but bottom line, if you are SC, it's win and move on. Try to learn something from each game, and Tiff Mitchell was terrific. IMHO, SC fans who think they will be better offensively next year because of who they bring in are falling into the same trap Tennessee fans have for years - Tenn fans say "sure we lose Player X, but just look at who we bring in".

Davis is a career .370 shooter, which is not great for a guard/wing. Her 3 point shooting was worse in her second year and career college, is .318. Not sure what Gray's stats were her 1st 2 years, but with SC losing 4 players who have been starters this past year, it's not going to be as simple as some of their fans think.

Bottom line, Miss played the best they could and SC still came out on top.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I posted this on the SMU Coach Rompola thread and it also fits here- - -

No one in the 2nd tier, (UCONN is alone in the 1st tier) ND, SoCa, MD, Baylor, TX, and some others for whatever reason can't duplicate UCONN's skill, effort, heart, work ethic! They have the players with the ability they just don't do it! As Doris Burke has said several times, "teams shouldn't hate UCONN for their success, they aren't doing anything special but out-working every single school in Div. I WBB! You want to beat UCONN, out-work UCONN!"
If UCONN stays injury and illness free they will still beat every opponent next year by about 10 points!
Think about this fact- UCONN's Tuck, Chong, Collier, KLS, Nurse, Williams, & Butler, returning players are all capable of scoring between 10 to 20+ points per game, every game! Ekmark is capable of scoring between 6 to 8 points per game! So even if all score on the low end of that scale they're scoring 76 points per game! Plus playing the toughest, strongest, unwielding defense in the nation! Who is capable of doing THAT every game? And you know at least two of the above is going to score on the top side of that scale, 20 points! So if you add in those 2 ten point games that = 96 points per game! That's not even taking into effect the 3 rookies coming in!
So health becomes the only possible downer to UCONN's next season record!

 

[SCGamecock]

MSU just barely beat a bad SMU team. But they found a way to win by 2.

Maryland played UCONN tough and has struggled against teams since.... would UCONN struggle with those same teams?

The transitive property applies to basketball so well.

 

[EricSD]

We are the class of the SEC. The rest of the conference is looking up to us in talent, attendance, and in the actual rankings.. and some of those teams looking up, like MSU, are pretty decent teams. No matter margin of victory, we're currently undefeated in conference play and will likely go on to win our 3rd straight regular season title and 2nd straight conference tournament title.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. We still have games versus Kentucky, A&M and Tennessee..

I'm not necessarily rooting for or against SC - I wouldn't mind seeing you lose to Kentucky or aTm, (alhtough I think it's unlikely). BUT... please be sure you beat Tennessee, and not only by a little bit. Pummel them into oblivion... A 30 point beat down would not be too much IMHO...

 

[EricSD]

Maryland played UCONN tough and has struggled against teams since.... would UCONN struggle with those same teams?

The transitive property applies to basketball so well.

FWIW I totally agree. UCONN "barely" beat Maryland and Notre Dame. Although UCONN was up 20 on ND early in the 4th before ND mounted a come back (or UCONN let them back into the game depending on your perspective). And that was without Turner. Additionally, UCONN was only up 4 or 5 on Maryland very late in the 4th quarter. I agree about the transitive property - a lot of it is about matchups. We've talked about it before - L'ville beat Baylor to get to the NC game (beat Griner and Sims) only to lose to UCONN by 30+ in the title game. BUT... I think UCONN vs. Baylor would have been much closer.

Point is, and it's something many have noted, it's about how teams match up. ND has always been an tough matchup for UCONN. Stanford has often been a really tough matchup, even when we are superior in talent on paper. L'ville has always been a horrible matchup from their perspective as has Duke. This year OSU was destroyed by UCONN but they only lost to SC by 8. and ND by 3. If not for the unfortunate loss to Northwestern a few weeks ago, they'd probably be the other #1 seed...

You can never look at the MOV and compare how 2 different teams played the common opponent. Some teams have great guards, others great post players, others focus mostly on defense, etc etc. IMHO UCONN is the most well rounded team in WCBB but against teams like ND and Stanford, who traditionally play a spread out offense with lots of ball movement and rotation - those are the kind of teams who can usually stay with UCONN. JUST having great defense isn't enough. Because UCONN usually plays great defense too...

I just wanted to add that USF recently lost a game to Memphis, who while IMHO is better than their record, still, is just an average team. Really bad loss for USF. And yet they traditionally play UCONN as tough as anyone out there...

 

[toadfoot]

Maryland played UCONN tough and has struggled against teams since.... would UCONN struggle with those same teams?

The transitive property applies to basketball so well.

What games would those be? They beat Michigan by 7, but other than a loss to OSU, no shame there, every Maryland game has been a 18 win or better. As for whether UConn would struggle with those teams, we have evidence for how they would have "struggled" against OSU.

 

[SCGamecock]

Some of the SC fans here speak of the Gamecocks as a dynasty: "It's no longer enough for us to show up and blah, blah, blah." Truth is they're a recent phenomenon in the manner of many schools that had a good year or two and then were never heard/seen from again. I'm not suggesting that SC won't have a good program going forward, but let's not equate their current status with a permanent role. Geno has said that he'd rather play a team with good bigs than a team with good guards. Shortly, his wish comes true.

Since this was directed at me, I'll bite... I probably will regret this later.

I never said we were a dynasty and I didn't insinuate that either. Nobody said anything about a dynasty in this thread except you. We did win the last 2 SEC regular season championships and we did win last year's SEC tournament. That's not a dynasty. No, but they are facts.

By stating that "Truth is they're a recent phenomenon in the manner of many schools that had a good year or two and then were never heard/seen from again" you literally just suggested what you said you're not suggesting. And you may be right, we may just be here temporarily... but if that's true, I'm going to enjoy being here. This may just be the beginning for SC WBB or it may actually be the apex. Either way, I'm going to relish in this moment because all good things don't last forever. SC's current run will eventually subside just like UCONN's current dominance.

 

[SCGamecock]

What games would those be? They beat Michigan by 7, but other than a loss to OSU, no shame there, every Maryland game has been a 18 win or better. As for whether UConn would struggle with those teams, we have evidence for how they would have "struggled" against OSU.

Just because you win comfortably doesn't mean you didn't struggle getting there. Their games versus Northwestern and Illinios were a lot closer than the MOV suggested. I watched them.

 

[toadfoot]

Just because you win comfortably doesn't mean you didn't struggle getting there. Their games versus Northwestern and Illinios were a lot closer than the MOV suggested. I watched them.

Your definition of "struggle" is a lot different from mine. Maryland was up by 14 at halftime against NW and cruised to a win. They were up by 7 at halftime against Illinois and 16 after 3 quarters.

This is MY definition of struggling...
South Carolina:

OSU - SC by 4 under 1 minute.
UCLA - SC by 2 under 1 minute.
ASU - tied with no time on the clock.
Vanderbilt - SC by 3 after 3 quarters.
Kentucky - SC by 1 after 3 quarters.
aTm - do I need to even say.
Mississippi St. - SC by 2 with under 30 seconds to play.

 

[Carnac]

SC's defense and size could ugly the game up for UConn too.

Pundits said the same thing last year about USC's tremendous "size" advantage. Texas' size advantage was also mentioned as a possible factor as UConn as the Longhorns were next up for the Huskies. How did those two games work out?

We all know that USC is not the same team we played last year. They've improved just a bit. They are more experienced, but so is UConn. Our bench is deeper than lit was last year.

Fans and observers of USC basketball are quick to point out the statistical accomplishments of the Lady Gamecocks, forgetting that these stats were not compiled against UConn, or the type of defense UConn employs.

It's common knowledge that you cannot turn the ball over against UConn like USC did in their last game, and keep the game close. UConn will bury you (quickly) if you give them that many more possessions. UConn converts turnovers into points.

UConn's style of play reminds me of the late heavyweight boxer "Smokin' Joe Frazier". Smokin' Joe was always in your face. He never ran, never did a rope-a-dope, never took a step back. He was always advancing. Always coming at you, and could take a punch. You could not get away from him. He'd cut the ring off on you.

I still remember those epic battles he had with Muhammad Ali. Ali brought his lunch and hard hat to each fight, because he knew it was not going to be a walk in the park, or a quick knock out. Anytime you stepped into the ring with Joe Frazier, you had better be prepared to go the distance. It was almost impossible to knock smoking Joe out, and he never threw in the towel

UConn is like that. They never take plays (or possessions off). They're always coming at you. Anytime you receive a pass, there ALWAYS a UConn defender in your face with their hands up. There were a lot of "one and dones" yesterday for Mississippi State. Not a lot of offensive rebounds. They did not match up well with USC size wise. Wilson and Coates were grabbing everything that came off the glass.

I'm not predicting a margin of victory for UConn against South Carolina. I do however (like everyone else here on the yard) expect UConn to emerge victorious. I am suggesting that if USC does not bring their A+ game for 40 minutes, they will suffer their first defeat of the season.

In other news.........Looking at the top 4 ranked teams (AP & USA today) at the halfway mark, UConn, Notre Dame, South Carolina and Baylor have a combined record of 67-2, and all look to be number one seeds in the NCAA tournament. None of them have multiple losses. They're resilient, and very hard to beat. Barring injury to a starter, Carnac predicts these will be your #1 seeds for the tournament come March.

Right now, these four are the most dominate teams in the country. I don't see any of them taking their foot of the gas between now and the end of the season. They'll all want to go into the tournament with "down hill" momentum. It would not surprise me if all of them made it to Indy, but that's a long way off. Anything can happen between now and then.

 

[TheGOAT23]

Coates and Wilson - 6pts each?? That will not cut it against UConn. MSU seemed to pack it in and let SC's guards beat them and their transition "D" was nonexistent in key situations in the 4th quarter. Don't expect that to happen on Geno's watch.

 

[SCGamecock]

Your definition of "struggle" is a lot different from mine. Maryland was up by 14 at halftime against NW and cruised to a win. They were up by 7 at halftime against Illinois and 16 after 3 quarters.

This is MY definition of struggling...
South Carolina:

OSU - SC by 4 under 1 minute.
UCLA - SC by 2 under 1 minute.
ASU - tied with no time on the clock.
Vanderbilt - SC by 3 after 3 quarters.
Kentucky - SC by 1 after 3 quarters.
aTm - do I need to even say.
Mississippi St. - SC by 2 with under 30 seconds to play.

And through all of that "struggle"... they're still sitting pretty. Looks like a team that "finds a way to win".. which was already established in this thread. Miraculous.

 

[SCGamecock]

Coates and Wilson - 6pts each?? That will not cut it against UConn. MSU seemed to pack it in and let SC's guards beat them and their transition "D" was nonexistent in key situations in the 4th quarter. Don't expect that to happen on Geno's watch.

You don't think UCONN will pack it in versus SC? What do you think the defensive game plan is versus SC?

We've yet to play a game this season where the opponent hasn't packed it in the paint the entire game.

 

[toadfoot]

And through all of that "struggle"... they're still sitting pretty. Looks like a team that "finds a way to win".. which was already established in this thread. Miraculous.

No, that just looks like a team that's struggling against teams they should be beating fairly easily. Now I suspect your definition of miraculous is also quite unusual, even bizarre.

 

[SCGamecock]

No, that just looks like a team that's struggling against teams they should be beating fairly easily. Now I suspect your definition of miraculous is also quite unusual, even bizarre.

Says who? This belief that your MOV versus top 25 teams should be 20+ is absurd. We've won the games we're supposed to win thus far. I've literally seen only one team that's capable of winning in that way and that's UCONN. The huskies are one of the most disciplined teams I've seen in college basketball in general, men or women's. That UCONN system is in place and has been for 20+ years. SC is still finding its system. Just because SC is #2 you shouldn't expect them to play like UCONN. That was also already established in this thread.

Maybe one day we'll become that dominant program, but right now, we're just not there yet. We're still a scrappy blue collar team fighting for respect.

 

[toadfoot]

Says who? This belief that your MOV versus top 25 teams should be 20+ is absurd.

I dare you to find where I ever said any such thing. Are you claiming to be able to read my thoughts?

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

MSU just barely beat a bad SMU team. But they found a way to win by 2.

MSU also only lost by 6 at Texas.

 

[Tonyc]

UConn will embarrass SC.

 

[HoopsFan21]

UConn will embarrass SC.

Not sure about that. CoLA is a tough place to play. I'll be happy just to escape with a win.

 

[tony yusef]

Notre Dame held UConn to 63 in last year's title game and kept it competitive throughout. UConn could smack SC around this time too but I don't think it's a fait accompli.

What does Notre Dame holding UConn to 63 pts in the last years title game have to do with SC? If you didn't know, Notre Dame has proven they match up very well with UConn. They too can defend but more importantly are so good offensively they force you to defend them all over the floor. That will not be the case for SC....

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

What does Notre Dame holding UConn to 63 pts in the last years title game have to do with SC? If you didn't know, Notre Dame has proven they match up very well with UConn. They too can defend but more importantly are so good offensively they force you to defend them all over the floor. That will not be the case for SC....

You mean like when ND only scored 66 against USC in the Final Four last year?

 

[tony yusef]

You mean like when ND only scored 66 against USC in the Final Four last year?

What does that have to do with SC vs UConn?... Listen carefully, IN ORDER TO BEAT UCONN YOU HAVE TO BE A GOOD OFFENSIVE TEAM, YOU HAVE TO HIT A QUANTITIVE AMOUNT OF 3'S AND HOPE UCONN HAS A BAD SHOOTING NIGHT, this of course is no secret.... I've seen this SC team struggle to score 60 pts against teams that UConn would put a 90 against. A low scoring night for UConn is 70pts, SC couldn't score 70 in 5 quarters. This is why they have to play better than they have all year long to hang with UConn, who after playing non- competitive teams in their conference will be salivating at the chance to strut their stuff against the #2 ranked team on their home floor. Obtw, who won that game where ND scored 66pts?

 

[Sluconn Husky]

What does Notre Dame holding UConn to 63 pts in the last years title game have to do with SC? If you didn't know, Notre Dame has proven they match up very well with UConn. They too can defend but more importantly are so good offensively they force you to defend them all over the floor. That will not be the case for SC....

It has to do with your comment that UConn can't be held to 60 points. Last year's final certainly was not an offensive game.

 

[TheGOAT23]

You don't think UCONN will pack it in versus SC? What do you think the defensive game plan is versus SC?

We've yet to play a game this season where the opponent hasn't packed it in the paint the entire game.

Maybe UConn will pack it in with 4 players and let Sessions beat them. Mitchell will be probably be face guarded by Mo. I watched most of the 2nd half of the S.C./ MSU game and I have to say that MSU's transition "D" was horrible when it mattered most. S.C. (Roy) did run the pick and roll with some success, but UConn does a good job of doubling the guard and rotating back to the "Bigs". More often than not, they don't let you pick and roll because they over play the pick. Glad that Dawn recruited girls from S.C. Hopefully, she will continue the trend.

I didn't make it to the game in Storrs (1hr 30 mins away) last season because of the snow and I heard that it's a nightmare trying to get off of campus after a game on a clear day. I wished I could attend the game at CLA on Feb 8th. I was born and brought up 40 mins away. I attended many Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus events at the Coliseum back in the 80's.

 

[UConnCat]

It has to do with your comment that UConn can't be held to 60 points. Last year's final certainly was not an offensive game.

I think it's best to separate championship games from regular season games, particularly when talking about foes who are very familiar with each other. Championship games tend to be lower scoring affairs. There's the pressure of the game itself which leads to the pressure to make shots. Every possession is contested. There are fewer turnovers and thus fewer opportunities to run which means fewer possessions and having to score against half-court defense. Again, add in the familiarity of UConn and Notre Dame and you have the two best offensive teams scoring 63 and 53 points, respectively. UConn scored in the 70s in 6 of its 10 championship games; the exceptions (in addition to last year's game) were 93 against a Louisville team that played little defense, 53 against Stanford (another example of game pressure) and 82 against Oklahoma.

Your point that started this back-and-forth was that SC's size and defense could "ugly the game for UConn." There certainly were moments in last year's blow-out UConn win when you could see UConn's post defenders struggle with Coates and Wilson. Remember, Kiah Stokes hardly played in that game even though many thought she'd be needed to contend with SC's size. As it turned out, Kiah wasn't needed. UConn was able to get out in transition a lot. UConn neutralized SC's size on defense by spacing the floor; SC's post defenders struggled defending Stewart and Tuck in space. KML was on fire. UConn was able to defend SC's size by keeping 4 defenders in the lane and SC's guards didn't make UConn pay for it.

I can't imagine UConn will defend SC's size much differently than last year though they won't have the luxury of ignoring Ibiam for 14 minutes. Kia and Moriah will defend Mitchell and Sessions/Roy/Dozier/Cuevas/Cliney will be given the opportunity to make perimeter shots. It'll be interesting to see how Dawn chooses to defend UConn. A less than healthy Tuck will make that job somewhat easier.

 

[SCGamecock]

Maybe UConn will pack it in with 4 players and let Sessions beat them. Mitchell will be probably be face guarded by Mo. I watched most of the 2nd half of the S.C./ MSU game and I have to say that MSU's transition "D" was horrible when it mattered most. S.C. (Roy) did run the pick and roll with some success, but UConn does a good job of doubling the guard and rotating back to the "Bigs". More often than not, they don't let you pick and roll because they over play the pick. Glad that Dawn recruited girls from S.C. Hopefully, she will continue the trend.

I didn't make it to the game in Storrs (1hr 30 mins away) last season because of the snow and I heard that it's a nightmare trying to get off of campus after a game on a clear day. I wished I could attend the game at CLA on Feb 8th. I was born and brought up 40 mins away. I attended many Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus events at the Coliseum back in the 80's.

If the game comes down to Sessions scoring then we're pretty much screwed. Sessions is best when she's asked to manage the game, not produce. In those situations, when Sessions does produce good things usually happen. Jefferson did a very good job of face guarding Mitchell last year, so Mitchell should expect more of that this year. UCONN's strength is their versatility, so many players that can do a thousand different things offensively and defensively. After playing UCONN last year, I wonder what Dawn's game plan is this year. It has to be something more than just dump it to the post, it's going to take much more than that to win a game versus UCONN.

I also appreciate the fact Dawn has recruited so many from South Carolina. I think that's one of the reasons her program has skyrocketed in popularity. She made herself known across the state then she went about and recruited girls from hometowns in every little corner of SC. The fans feel really attached to the program because they know the girls so well and have watched them grow up basically. Where in SC are you from?

 

[SCGamecock]

I think it's best to separate championship games from regular season games, particularly when talking about foes who are very familiar with each other. Championship games tend to be lower scoring affairs. There's the pressure of the game itself which leads to the pressure to make shots. Every possession is contested. There are fewer turnovers and thus fewer opportunities to run which means fewer possessions and having to score against half-court defense. Again, add in the familiarity of UConn and Notre Dame and you have the two best offensive teams scoring 63 and 53 points, respectively. UConn scored in the 70s in 6 of its 10 championship games; the exceptions (in addition to last year's game) were 93 against a Louisville team that played little defense, 53 against Stanford (another example of game pressure) and 82 against Oklahoma.

Your point that started this back-and-forth was that SC's size and defense could "ugly the game for UConn." There certainly were moments in last year's blow-out UConn win when you could see UConn's post defenders struggle with Coates and Wilson. Remember, Kiah Stokes hardly played in that game even though many thought she'd be needed to contend with SC's size. As it turned out, Kiah wasn't needed. UConn was able to get out in transition a lot. UConn neutralized SC's size on defense by spacing the floor; SC's post defenders struggled defending Stewart and Tuck in space. KML was on fire. UConn was able to defend SC's size by keeping 4 defenders in the lane and SC's guards didn't make UConn pay for it.

I can't imagine UConn will defend SC's size much differently than last year though they won't have the luxury of ignoring Ibiam for 14 minutes. Kia and Moriah will defend Mitchell and Sessions/Roy/Dozier/Cuevas/Cliney will be given the opportunity to make perimeter shots. It'll be interesting to see how Dawn chooses to defend UConn. A less than healthy Tuck will make that job somewhat easier.

Great analysis!

 

[TheGOAT23]

If the game comes down to Sessions scoring then we're pretty much screwed. Sessions is best when she's asked to manage the game, not produce. In those situations, when Sessions does produce good things usually happen. Jefferson did a very good job of face guarding Mitchell last year, so Mitchell should expect more of that this year. UCONN's strength is their versatility, so many players that can do a thousand different things offensively and defensively. After playing UCONN last year, I wonder what Dawn's game plan is this year. It has to be something more than just dump it to the post, it's going to take much more than that to win a game versus UCONN.

I also appreciate the fact Dawn has recruited so many from South Carolina. I think that's one of the reasons her program has skyrocketed in popularity. She made herself known across the state then she went about and recruited girls from hometowns in every little corner of SC. The fans feel really attached to the program because they know the girls so well and have watched them grow up basically. Where in SC are you from?

I'm from just outside of Orangeburg. My favorite Gamecock's basketball player was Jo Jo English. Played at L.R. High School with Stanley Roberts.

 

[SCGamecock]

I'm from just outside of Orangeburg. My favorite Gamecock's basketball player was Jo Jo English. Played at L.R. High School with Stanley Roberts.

It really is a small world. I know that area very well. I have a lot of family in the Holly Hill area and also over towards the St. George area. I'm from Charleston, but my parents would make me spend weekends out in the country with my grandmother. I love how rural it is in that part of the state... people still wave at cars passing by and strangers speak casually to one another. It really is another place in time.