Somebody explain to me why Harrison Barnes is a better prospect than Jeremy Lamb

[mauconnfan]

Lot's of koolaid out on the boards on this one - games are very similar. If anything, Barnes probably has a little more of the dribble than JL, not much. That will be the deciding factor on which one of these two transitions to the NBA successfully - who can put the ball on the floor and create their shot? Otherwise they both simply just turn into another jump shooter - which you need in the NBA, but role players. JL did not showcase anything off the dribble that this past year - he became a jump shooter, almost exclusively. Yes, defenses tightened up a bit focusing on him, but he was almost exclusively reliant on the jump shot whereas the year prior, he showed a nice little runner. Barnes has the size advantage, so I'll give him a slight edge on this one. At some point, he may be able to do some posting up smaller 2's. Barnes is funny - has all the measurables, so I'm sure scouts are looking at him as the physical blueprint for a great 2/3 type - but he looks too controlled/mechanical out there, doesn't play with any aggression, explosiveness or instincts.

Kemba - never saw him translating to the NBA. Guys his size only translate when they're 100% natural pass firsts types. That is really hard to rewire at his stage in the game.

Sorry Ruff but 2/3 in the NBA for barnes is way off. No Kool Aid here just the facts....while Jeremy falls in love with his handle a little too much he does have the ability. Barnes, while potentially a very good spot shooter, is not even close to capable of handling the ball vs the good defenders at the next level. He is only a little better than Stanley in that regard. But he has the potential because he can shoot it.

 

[61cygni]

Exception to AI

 

[ChrisSmith]

They're similar shooters and athletes. Barnes is taller and stronger. Simple as that.

This is a post I wrote on another board

"Homer take here, but can somebody explain to me why Harrison Barnes is a better prospect than Jeremy Lamb?

What did Harrison Barnes show us last year that would make anybody think he should be a top five pick? I think the Barnes hype still hasn't quite died down going back to his high school career and that's why people still have this illusion of Harrison Barnes going on to be another Kevin Durant.

In two years of college, Barnes proved to be an inefficient one on one player, a ball stopper, somebody who has not proven to play effectively off the ball, and somebody who projects to be a mediocre defender at the NBA level at best. In his sophmore year in college, he shot only 44% from the floor, and 36% from three, even though he had one of the best passers in quite some time at the PG position and a couple of big men who often required double teams.

Jeremy Lamb had no such advantage, but he still put up 18 a game on 48% shooting in a far superior defensive conference. This was also coming off a remarkable 11 game run in March where he put up 17 PPG on a stellar 56% shooting, playing marvelously off the ball and coming through with big shots in big moments. Part of being a successful NBA player is being able to score points at an efficient rate while defering to the star player (in this case, Kemba). Nobody did that better than Lamb in college, and although he did not prove to be able to carry a team, neither did Barnes, who struggled tremendously in the tournament last season, putting up games of 5 for 12, 7 for 19, 3 for 16, and 5 for 14. Yikes.

What one skill does he have that is going to make him an above average NBA player? If he struggled to hit shots at an efficient rate in college, why is that going to change in the NBA when he is going up against excellent defenders night after night? Lamb might not be a great one on one player either, but nobody in this draft class is better at using screens, and picking and choosing their spots. He has a beautiful mid-range game, an excellent floater, and exceptional range from three.

They have similar vertical leaps, similar wingspans (even though Lamb is two inches shorter), and both are entering a league more desperate for shooting guards than small forwards. Barnes has already had the opportunity to play with a PG with excellent vision in college, so why is Irving going to compliment him so much better than Marshall did? Lamb hasn't had the opportunity of playing with an elite PG, so based on that, you'd have to think his ceiling in Cleveland is higher than is Barnes'.

Sorry UNC fans, I just don't understand the Barnes hype. 5 rebounds a game, 1 assist per game? He's a one-dimensional player who isn't even that good in that one dimension. He doesn't have a great first step, isn't overly explosive at the rim, and gives no indication that he can consistently shake good defenders in the league when he couldn't come through against far inferior opponents in the tournament. Cleveland would be extremely misguided to take him at four with guys like Beal, Drummond, Perry Jones, T-Rob, and Jeremy Lamb possibly available."

 

[sinkhole]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but we loyal Husky fans should remember in past years how we overrated our boys. Remember the 100 posts which demeaned Rondo over our boy, Marcus. How'd that work out?

Hilton over Noah was a good one.

 

[aceboon]

If you think Barnes has a better handle than Jeremy I'd like to see the game tape of the UNC games you watched. You must've missed the Ohio and Kansas games after Marshall broke his wrist and Barnes tried to create for himself and he looked like a kid trying to execute his very first dribble moves, Jeremy's handle is better than his and I've never seen Barnes pull off some of the crossover moves that Jeremy has.

Lot's of koolaid out on the boards on this one - games are very similar. If anything, Barnes probably has a little more of the dribble than JL, not much. That will be the deciding factor on which one of these two transitions to the NBA successfully - who can put the ball on the floor and create their shot? Otherwise they both simply just turn into another jump shooter - which you need in the NBA, but role players. JL did not showcase anything off the dribble that this past year - he became a jump shooter, almost exclusively. Yes, defenses tightened up a bit focusing on him, but he was almost exclusively reliant on the jump shot whereas the year prior, he showed a nice little runner. Barnes has the size advantage, so I'll give him a slight edge on this one. At some point, he may be able to do some posting up smaller 2's. Barnes is funny - has all the measurables, so I'm sure scouts are looking at him as the physical blueprint for a great 2/3 type - but he looks too controlled/mechanical out there, doesn't play with any aggression, explosiveness or instincts.

Kemba - never saw him translating to the NBA. Guys his size only translate when they're 100% natural pass firsts types. That is really hard to rewire at his stage in the game.

 

[Burnsbros23]

Kemba was an ELITE player and Jeremy played off Kemba. Jeremy is clearly better as a second option than a 1st option.

Comparing Barnes handle to Stanley's? C'mon now thats ridiculous. Barnes has a nice one dribble pull up he isnt great at attacking the rim but neither is Jeremy. I think ridiculous expectations were on Barnes so people view him as a disappointment. Both of these guys could be great second and third best players on a team but to me neither is going to be a superstar.

 

[caw]

To answer the initial question. Given that the two players have very similar games (positives and negatives), Barnes is a bulkier player and has a very good no-step vertical. Other than that, I view them as similar prospects.

 

[champs99and04]

Kemba was an ELITE player and Jeremy played off Kemba. Jeremy is clearly better as a second option than a 1st option.

Comparing Barnes handle to Stanley's? C'mon now thats ridiculous. Barnes has a nice one dribble pull up he isnt great at attacking the rim but neither is Jeremy. I think ridiculous expectations were on Barnes so people view him as a disappointment. Both of these guys could be great second and third best players on a team but to me neither is going to be a superstar.

I agree - both are unlikely to become #1 options in the NBA. The premise of my original thread is based on the fact that Lamb has proven to be more successful as a second option than Barnes, at least in their brief careers. The ability to defer, and score efficiently within the offense is a skill, and Lamb has proven to be one of the best at that.

I've heard Barnes to Cleveland at #4, and I just don't think it makes any sense. Barnes had a nice college career, I just didn't see anything to warrant him being a top five pick. If I'm Cleveland, I'm picking either Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal, or Drummond at #4, depending on who's left. However, Lamb would also be a good option, while Barnes would not be. Kyrie Irving is the face of the franchise, and if you bring in Lamb to play off the ball, he'll thrive as a second option because he has an advanced understanding of the subtilities of the game - playing the passing lanes, cutting off the ball, using screens, creating space off the ball, etc. Lamb hasn't proven to be a better athlete than Barnes, but he has proven to have a higher basketball IQ. Barnes has showed us that he's a mediocre one on one player and not much more.

I'll go with the guy who shot 56% during an eleven game winning streak in March last year, you can go with the guy who shot 3 of 16 against Ohio in the sweet 16 this year. I like my chances.

 

[Burnsbros23]

Totally understandable. I think Barnes is probably the safer pick. The other thing is him and Kyrie Irving are best friends. I think him and Jeremy are very comparable prospects guess it just depends on need. I'll take Jeremy over MKG I have worries about him.

You wanna talk about crazy? In Chad Ford mock drafts he has Austin Rivers going over Jeremy that to me is insane.

 

[champs99and04]

Totally understandable. I think Barnes is probably the safer pick. The other thing is him and Kyrie Irving are best friends. I think him and Jeremy are very comparable prospects guess it just depends on need. I'll take Jeremy over MKG I have worries about him.

You wanna talk about crazy? In Chad Ford mock drafts he has Austin Rivers going over Jeremy that to me is insane.

Would you mind posting Chad Ford's top 15? Most of the articles on ESPN require a subscription to Insider.

It seems with Sullinger likely to take a hit, that bodes well for Lamb. MKG I think will be a good pro - he's one of thsoe guys that was put on planet earth for the sole purpose of playing basketball. He'll likely be stronger than 90% of his counterparts, so I think he could make a living in the NBA posting up and scoring in transition. His scoring numbers at Kentucky don't blow you away, but you get the feeling he could have put in more if UK wasn't so loaded. It seemed like 80% of the time Kidd-Gilchrist attacked the rim something good happened.

The skill will come in time. He has the athleticism to be really good in the NBA (not to notch athleticism, but good athleticism) and the intangibles to be great. Time will tell.

 

[RuffRuff]

Did not say he has a better "handle" - said he is able to create offense a bit more of a dribble move. Neither of these guys is going to be expected to handle the ball. Do people here really think they are smarter than professionals who are paid to do this and have been doing it for a very long time?

Basically what Chris Smith said.

 

[Walker11]

Did not say he has a better "handle" - said he is able to create offense a bit more of a dribble move. Neither of these guys is going to be expected to handle the ball. Do people here really think they are smarter than professionals who are paid to do this and have been doing it for a very long time?

Basically what Chris Smith said.

You are right about that. Lamb has a much better handle than Barnes but Barnes can create slightly better off the dribble because he can shoot very well off one bounce off the step back.

 

[Burnsbros23]

He has Rivers going 10 to the hornets and Lamb going 11th to the Blazers. Sullinger all the way down at 20th and Perry Jones all they way down an 19th.

 

[aceboon]

He has Rivers going 10 to the hornets and Lamb going 11th to the Blazers. Sullinger all the way down at 20th and Perry Jones all they way down an 19th.

Jones all the way to 19th is crazy but its not surprising to see Sullinger that low, he got flagged at the draft camps for a back issue, plus supposedly one of his legs is longer than the other(see, Oden). He could be looking at a DeJuan Blair type of situation on draft night.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Jones all the way to 19th is crazy but its not surprising to see Sullinger that low, he got flagged at the draft camps for a back issue, plus supposedly one of his legs is longer than the other(see, Oden). He could be looking at a DeJuan Blair type of situation on draft night.

This draft looks very thin to me. I'm not even sold on Davis, he looks about like Marus Camby, with a less well developed offensive game. I don't think his frame will allow him to put on enough weight to really bang down low, and I don't think he can play outside. I think we may look back in 5 years and be surprised at who the best players from this class are. T-Rob is the most certain to be at least starter quality.

As for Lamb and Barnes, neither looks to be much more than a role player in my view. If either can really pick up his D he can earn some minutes. If not, 6th man scoring off the bench.

 

[caw]

This draft looks very thin to me. I'm not even sold on Davis, he looks about like Marus Camby, with a less well developed offensive game. I don't think his frame will allow him to put on enough weight to really bang down low, and I don't think he can play outside. I think we may look back in 5 years and be surprised at who the best players from this class are. T-Rob is the most certain to be at least starter quality.

As for Lamb and Barnes, neither looks to be much more than a role player in my view. If either can really pick up his D he can earn some minutes. If not, 6th man scoring off the bench.

I agree, it looks thin on [guaranteed] stars. It is a very deep draft though. Lots of 5th-9th man type role-players in this draft. A few of those have the potential to be stars. Most just have fatal flaws that would need to be worked out. Great draft to be in the late teens/early twenties and/or have multiple picks if you have a team with defined roles and veteran players.