Somebody explain to me why Harrison Barnes is a better prospect than Jeremy Lamb

[champs99and04]

This is a post I wrote on another board

"Homer take here, but can somebody explain to me why Harrison Barnes is a better prospect than Jeremy Lamb?

What did Harrison Barnes show us last year that would make anybody think he should be a top five pick? I think the Barnes hype still hasn't quite died down going back to his high school career and that's why people still have this illusion of Harrison Barnes going on to be another Kevin Durant.

In two years of college, Barnes proved to be an inefficient one on one player, a ball stopper, somebody who has not proven to play effectively off the ball, and somebody who projects to be a mediocre defender at the NBA level at best. In his sophmore year in college, he shot only 44% from the floor, and 36% from three, even though he had one of the best passers in quite some time at the PG position and a couple of big men who often required double teams.

Jeremy Lamb had no such advantage, but he still put up 18 a game on 48% shooting in a far superior defensive conference. This was also coming off a remarkable 11 game run in March where he put up 17 PPG on a stellar 56% shooting, playing marvelously off the ball and coming through with big shots in big moments. Part of being a successful NBA player is being able to score points at an efficient rate while defering to the star player (in this case, Kemba). Nobody did that better than Lamb in college, and although he did not prove to be able to carry a team, neither did Barnes, who struggled tremendously in the tournament last season, putting up games of 5 for 12, 7 for 19, 3 for 16, and 5 for 14. Yikes.

What one skill does he have that is going to make him an above average NBA player? If he struggled to hit shots at an efficient rate in college, why is that going to change in the NBA when he is going up against excellent defenders night after night? Lamb might not be a great one on one player either, but nobody in this draft class is better at using screens, and picking and choosing their spots. He has a beautiful mid-range game, an excellent floater, and exceptional range from three.

They have similar vertical leaps, similar wingspans (even though Lamb is two inches shorter), and both are entering a league more desperate for shooting guards than small forwards. Barnes has already had the opportunity to play with a PG with excellent vision in college, so why is Irving going to compliment him so much better than Marshall did? Lamb hasn't had the opportunity of playing with an elite PG, so based on that, you'd have to think his ceiling in Cleveland is higher than is Barnes'.

Sorry UNC fans, I just don't understand the Barnes hype. 5 rebounds a game, 1 assist per game? He's a one-dimensional player who isn't even that good in that one dimension. He doesn't have a great first step, isn't overly explosive at the rim, and gives no indication that he can consistently shake good defenders in the league when he couldn't come through against far inferior opponents in the tournament. Cleveland would be extremely misguided to take him at four with guys like Beal, Drummond, Perry Jones, T-Rob, and Jeremy Lamb possibly available."

 

[HuskyFan32]

I agree 100%. It makes no sense. Barnes is ridiculously overrated

 

[sparky]

The Barnes hype started in high school and carried on to NC. It's an issue of hype verses reality and the reality is hyped or not potentially barnes has a better pro game the JL. That being said, having and producing are two different things. I love JL but he needs to shake the Houdini act at a much higher level

 

[Kitaman]

We UConn fans agree that Jeremy is a better prospect but to think that he separated himself enough is not the case. Jeremy could of avoided this and the same with other prospects ranked higher. Last year was to be his year but he failed to breakout, furthermore the team stuttered with a potential AA, which didn't help matters.

 

[B1GEast]

because he went to UNC.

 

[Burnsbros23]

You say Jeremy didnt play with an elite PG........... We forget Kemba quite quick don't we. I dont think anyone sees Barnes as a Kevin Durant. I think he could be a Danny Granger type which is very good for a team. All that said I think Jeremy Lamb is being undervalued in this draft if Waiters goes ahead of him thats a big head scratcher.

 

[nomar]

"Complement," not "compliment." Pet peeve. Good post otherwise.

 

[UConn990411]

You say Jeremy didnt play with an elite PG........... We forget Kemba quite quick don't we. I dont think anyone sees Barnes as a Kevin Durant. I think he could be a Danny Granger type which is very good for a team. All that said I think Jeremy Lamb is being undervalued in this draft if Waiters goes ahead of him thats a big head scratcher.

Agree with this, although Joe Johnson is probably the best comparison I've heard so far.


I view Lamb and Barnes as nearly equals - both have similar strengths (great size for their positions, really good shooters/scorers) and similar weaknesses (defense is a question mark, can't create well off the bounce, not particularly well-rounded players).

I think what attracts people to Barnes is his size - 6'8 wing players with his skillset don't come around too often. He's probably a safer bet with even a little more upside (I see Lamb averaging 18-20 ppg, Barnes averaging 20-22 ppg with 5+ boards). So, a better prospect, but probably with less of a discrepancy than the perception.

 

[champs99and04]

The Barnes hype started in high school and carried on to NC. It's an issue of hype verses reality and the reality is hyped or not potentially barnes has a better pro game the JL. That being said, having and producing are two different things. I love JL but he needs to shake the Houdini act at a much higher level

For all the criticism Lamb received for "disappearing", he still scored 18 PPG as a sophmore when he was the focal point of opposing defenses. As I've stated before, I don't think it's in Lamb's DNA to carry a team, however, as one of those complementary players who can quietly work off the ball and make defenses pay when they fall asleep on him, I think he's perfect.

Look at it this way: Neither Barnes nor Lamb proved they could carry a team. However, I think we could all agree that Lamb proved he could be a winner as a second or third option if his game translates as well to the NBA game as we all think. Barnes was arguably the fourth best player on his team last season and UNC didn't win jack. Lamb won the whole thing as the clear cut second option in 2011.

 

[champs99and04]

We UConn fans agree that Jeremy is a better prospect but to think that he separated himself enough is not the case. Jeremy could of avoided this and the same with other prospects ranked higher. Last year was to be his year but he failed to breakout, furthermore the team stuttered with a potential AA, which didn't help matters.

I agree that Lamb did not separate himself from the pack last year, but I'm only comparing him to Barnes here, and Barnes scored less efficiently than Lamb with a much greater supporting cast around him. Lamb is what he is, IMO...he's never going to score 25 PPG, but he can easily put up 15-20 PPG on a contender someday. That's what I've been trying to tell you guys all year. He's not a go to guy, he's a dangerous second or third option who is dependent on a good PG and big men who can set good screens. When you consider UConn had two, maybe three guys who could create their own shots last year, and zero big men who could consistently set good screens, I think it's a tribute to Lamb that he still put up 18 a game at an efficient rate.

 

[champs99and04]

You say Jeremy didnt play with an elite PG........... We forget Kemba quite quick don't we. I dont think anyone sees Barnes as a Kevin Durant. I think he could be a Danny Granger type which is very good for a team. All that said I think Jeremy Lamb is being undervalued in this draft if Waiters goes ahead of him thats a big head scratcher.

Sorry, I was speaking more in terms of a PG with elite court vision. Kemba was excellent in terms of scoring, but I wouldn't go as far as saying he was a great passer. Marshall, on the other hand, had some of the best court vision I've seen from a PG at the college level in a decade or so. Even with all the great looks Marshall created for Barnes, he still shot a measeley 44% from the field. Look at Barnes' statistics before Marshall arrived as the starting PG last year, and look at his statisics after he got hurt this year. He clearly struggled mightily to create his own shot.

On a side note, Barnes is far from this raw, insanely athletic specimen who just needs to put it all together skill wise. Coming into college, his best attribute was supposed to be his polish. Even considering how advanced his skills were for a college player, he struggled to create his own shot. That's a major red flag in my opinion, because that speaks more to his inability to shake defenders off the bounce than it does his shotmaking, which is a tougher skill to develop, especially at the NBA level when most defenders are going to be more athletic than you are.

 

[Husky1964]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but we loyal Husky fans should remember in past years how we overrated our boys. Remember the 100 posts which demeaned Rondo over our boy, Marcus. How'd that work out?

 

[Robertelamin]

Barnes reminds me of a taller Denham Brown. Both were nice players but neither were as athletic as they were hyped to be. Neither had a great handle or an ability to create their own shot. I'm not sure how well Barnes game is suited for the NBA. I think Lamb is definitely the better prospect.

 

[babysheep]

You say Jeremy didnt play with an elite PG........... We forget Kemba quite quick don't we.

Kemba was not even really a point guard, let alone an elite one.

 

[babysheep]

I agree that Lamb did not separate himself from the pack last year, but I'm only comparing him to Barnes here, and Barnes scored less efficiently than Lamb with a much greater supporting cast around him.

Much greater supporting cast than RS, DD, Boat, SN, AD, and the rest of the team that just won a NC (minus Kemba)?

 

[mauconnfan]

Kemba was not even really a point guard, let alone an elite one.

He was an elite college basketball player no matter what position you want to say he played.......like it or not he was a PG/combo so BurnsBros is correct.

 

[babysheep]

He was a combo guard, and was elite in the scoring part, but you're crazy if you think Kemba was an elite passer.

 

[Walker11]

Agree with this, although Joe Johnson is probably the best comparison I've heard so far.

Joe Johnson is a great ball handler. Barnes' greatest weakness is his handle. I don't really think that comparison works at all.

Barnes certainly helped himself at the combine by testing out as the best athlete. He certainly doesn't play with that athleticism (probably going back to his weak handle).

Both these guys are good prospects and anyone of us would be crazy to say one will definitively be better than the other in the league. Both have pretty high floors as well, IMO.

 

[jleves]

Joe Johnson is a great ball handler. Barnes' greatest weakness is his handle. I don't really think that comparison works at all.

Barnes certainly helped himself at the combine by testing out as the best athlete. He certainly doesn't play with that athleticism (probably going back to his weak handle).

Both these guys are good prospects and anyone of us would be crazy to say one will definitively be better than the other in the league. Both have pretty high floors as well, IMO.

High floors?

 

[Kitaman]

High floors?

High Ceilings = Ladder
High Floors = Elevator

Now which one is higher?

 

[mauconnfan]

He was a combo guard, and was elite in the scoring part, but you're crazy if you think Kemba was an elite passer.

How would we know since he was an elite scorer? Noone said he was an elite passer but there's nodenying his elite college career now is there?

 

[babysheep]

How would we know since he was an elite scorer? Noone said he was an elite passer but there's nodenying his elite college career now is there?

Wouldn't you think an elite pg should be an elite passer?

 

[champs99and04]

Much greater supporting cast than RS, DD, Boat, SN, AD, and the rest of the team that just won a NC (minus Kemba)?

Easily. UConn had a lot of talent, and I don't think anybody would deny that, but the pieces clearly didn't fit, and that can hardly be pinned on Lamb. They had two, maybe three guys who could create their own shot, zero big men who could score from outside of two feet, and only a couple of consistent long range shooters. There wasn't a Zeller or a Henson to take the burden off of Lamb like Barnes had.

Henson averaged 14 and 10 on 50% shooting, Zeller averaged 16 and 10 on 55% shooting. Can you imagine what an advantage it must be to have two athletic, skilled big men who can get their own shot whenever they want? That alone helps spread the floor a great deal, and when you throw in the fact that UNC had the best floor general in college basketball, it becomes even more of a red flag that Barnes did not have a better season. Offensively, Barnes was placed in the best possible position to succeed, while Lamb was stuck playing three on five a lot of the time. And Lamb STILL shot 48% to Barnes' 44%.

 

[Robertelamin]

Easily. UConn had a lot of talent, and I don't think anybody would deny that, but the pieces clearly didn't fit, and that can hardly be pinned on Lamb. They had two, maybe three guys who could create their own shot, zero big men who could score from outside of two feet, and only a couple of consistent long range shooters. There wasn't a Zeller or a Henson to take the burden off of Lamb like Barnes had.

Henson averaged 14 and 10 on 50% shooting, Zeller averaged 16 and 10 on 55% shooting. Can you imagine what an advantage it must be to have two athletic, skilled big men who can get their own shot whenever they want? That alone helps spread the floor a great deal, and when you throw in the fact that UNC had the best floor general in college basketball, it becomes even more of a red flag that Barnes did not have a better season. Offensively, Barnes was placed in the best possible position to succeed, while Lamb was stuck playing three on five a lot of the time. And Lamb STILL shot 48% to Barnes' 44%.

It isn't even close. UNC had 4 guys that were probably top 5 players in their positions last year. UConn had Jeremy.

 

[RuffRuff]

Lot's of koolaid out on the boards on this one - games are very similar. If anything, Barnes probably has a little more of the dribble than JL, not much. That will be the deciding factor on which one of these two transitions to the NBA successfully - who can put the ball on the floor and create their shot? Otherwise they both simply just turn into another jump shooter - which you need in the NBA, but role players. JL did not showcase anything off the dribble that this past year - he became a jump shooter, almost exclusively. Yes, defenses tightened up a bit focusing on him, but he was almost exclusively reliant on the jump shot whereas the year prior, he showed a nice little runner. Barnes has the size advantage, so I'll give him a slight edge on this one. At some point, he may be able to do some posting up smaller 2's. Barnes is funny - has all the measurables, so I'm sure scouts are looking at him as the physical blueprint for a great 2/3 type - but he looks too controlled/mechanical out there, doesn't play with any aggression, explosiveness or instincts.

Kemba - never saw him translating to the NBA. Guys his size only translate when they're 100% natural pass firsts types. That is really hard to rewire at his stage in the game.