Some Disturbing Trends

[alexrgct]

Playing devil's advocate, if you are a fan of a team other than UConn or Baylor, not necessarily a fan of the entire sport.

I understand that perspective but don't agree with it. It's not that Baylor and UConn are heavily favored to be the top two teams because everyone else is lousy so much as those two teams are really, really good. You have two dynamic, interesting, and occasionally controversial coaches. You have three #1 national high school recruits. You have one player, Griner, who's playing for her legacy as a college player. And you have, generally, an immense amount of talent across both squads. I think these two teams will showcase the sport well- last year, it was one of the national games that really lived up to its hype.

 

[Kibitzer]

I'm sure they will make a good impression ... And I have been just as active as anyone when it comes to looking forward to the impact of the 3 Musketeers.

BUT, personality-wise and impact-wise, I am really interested in seeing how KML carries herself this season. Will she step it up and assert herself consistently? Will she emerge as an oncourt leader, like Bria? (I know Kelly has been stepping forward as well re: leadership, but I see Bria as being the more active leader during games and I expect that to continue.) Will KML's photo, by later in the season, be the one that gets featured when the TV screen is advertising the next big UCONN game?

I am betting that the photo chosen by the promo people at various networks will be Bria's this year, and that she will be our primary leader. But I will say this: If it is KML's photo that starts getting featured, and if KML emerges as our scoring leader--taking the big Sophomore step forward as most of the great players do--we will beat Baylor twice and we will go undefeated.

Kaleena is the real deal. She will develop a national following as a California girl playing for the storied UConn wcbb team. Beyond that, she will have many games (on national TV) where she will get "in the zone" and drain trey after trey after trey. Somewhere along the way, some bright person on TV will notice that she is not only one helluva basketball player and a deadly shooter, but that she is an extraordinary rarity -- she's Mexican! Starting this year and for a couple more to follow, she will draw fans and viewers in large number from previously untapped sources.

Kaleena will be Senorita Charisma! Watch and see.

 

[Phil]

.
Good grief. The only thing I agree with Kallam on is that the Olympics punched a hole in the WNBA season. That's going to happen every four years, like it or not, until the Summer Olympics is moved to October.

I thought there might be a chance at that, at least for the next one, given that it will be in the Southern Hemisphere. When the games were in Sydney, the were moved to Mid September through October, but not next time. Turns out their "winter" temps are mid-70's in August, so no need to avoid winter.

 

[Phil]

Devil's advocate, huh? No kidding!

Good catch

 

[msf22b]

I still think that ND will be a fun team to watch with a 4-guard set-up. Maybe not as good as us, but competitive.

 

[sarals24]

The best thing about watching ND this season will be the 40-point beatdown given to them by UConn.

 

[Icebear]

Playing devil's advocate, if you are a fan of a team other than UConn or Baylor, not necessarily a fan of the entire sport.

The thought of it makes me blue.

 

[Wonkster]

The thought of it makes me blue.

Spoken like an expert on demons.

 

[mudcat]

ericsandiego said:

And BTW, this past year in the sweet 16 you had Kansas, Ga Tech, SJU, St Bonaventure, Penn State, and Gonzaga. a great representation of mid majors to go along with teams that have never been that far (or not recently) in the sweet 16. How was that not compelling?

The fans of many of those schools would be offended to find them classed as a "mid major" school. Usually the mid major label is determined by conference (usually meaning non BCS school) so only the Bonnies and the Zags really fit that label. Are Villanova and Seton Hall mid major? They are certainly underachievers but I wouldn't call them mid-majors anymore than I would call Michigan or Wisconsin a mid major.

 

[Phil]

ericsandiego said:

And BTW, this past year in the sweet 16 you had Kansas, Ga Tech, SJU, St Bonaventure, Penn State, and Gonzaga. a great representation of mid majors to go along with teams that have never been that far (or not recently) in the sweet 16. How was that not compelling?

The fans of many of those schools would be offended to find them classed as a "mid major" school. Usually the mid major label is determined by conference (usually meaning non BCS school) so only the Bonnies and the Zags really fit that label. Are Villanova and Seton Hall mid major? They are certainly underachievers but I wouldn't call them mid-majors anymore than I would call Michigan or Wisconsin a mid major.

Eric is good at speaking for himself, but I'm sure he knows that most of these teams are mid-majors. I don't think he was inferring that all of these were mid-majors, but that the collection included some mid-majors (Bonnnies and Zags), always a great story, as well as some teams that hadn't been in the sweet sixteen recently.

 

[EricSD]

ericsandiego said:

And BTW, this past year in the sweet 16 you had Kansas, Ga Tech, SJU, St Bonaventure, Penn State, and Gonzaga. a great representation of mid majors to go along with teams that have never been that far (or not recently) in the sweet 16. How was that not compelling?

The fans of many of those schools would be offended to find them classed as a "mid major" school. Usually the mid major label is determined by conference (usually meaning non BCS school) so only the Bonnies and the Zags really fit that label. Are Villanova and Seton Hall mid major? They are certainly underachievers but I wouldn't call them mid-majors anymore than I would call Michigan or Wisconsin a mid major.

Not sure what your point is. I said it was a great representation of mid majors to go along with teams that have not been that far <before>. Kansas, Ga Tech, SJU and PSU are not mid majors. I did not mention Nova or SHU in my post.

 

[Clay Kallam]

Interesting thread ...

I'm based in Northern California, and though obviously women's basketball fans are aware of UConn, I'm not sure how many, if any, Stanford fans would know KML was the Huskies' leading scorer. And though she is a great player -- I saw her through high school -- she's not EDD or even Breanna Stewart, who I think is the next great WBB player. People don't know her yet, though, and I'd say the best known UConn figure is Geno Auriemma.

As for volleyball, it's a huge competitor for girls' basketball here in Northern California. At the school I coached at last, which had won four state championships and was coming off three straight 20-win seasons with a high-scoring team, freshman basketball was dropped due to lack of interest -- 60 girls tried out for volleyball (out of a population of 150 or so girls). At the school I'm coaching at now, we have three volleyball teams. I will be lucky to get 10 for basketball.

The reason you don't hear of girls picking volleyball is that they do so at a young age. A 6-3 girl at my previous high school chose volleyball as a sophomore. She would have been a borderline D-1 player, if not higher, had she focused on basketball.

Very few girls can play both once they get past middle school because of the huge demands of volleyball club teams, which go year-round and claim that you can't get a scholarship unless you play year round. And they charge big bucks to do so, which motivates the club coaches to not allow any of their players to also play basketball (which they would, as the skill set is much the same).

Given UConn's success, I would expect basketball is still the dominant high school sport in that state, but then again I can't recall the last time I had a Connecticut high school team ranked in the top 25.

 

[arty155]

...quick, who's the most famous
conductor,
pianist,
violinist?
Yo Yo...

Don't these OT Tests have to be sanctioned by WireChief? I can’t keep up... well ,here goes…

quick, who's the most famous:
conductor: Ernest Borgnine, "Emperor of the North," 1973
pianist: Juan Valdez? Whoever won that screen test for best coffee pejuan peon pian guy with his donkey

violinist?Trick question? Its Ernest Borgnine again, right? Lee Marvin got violence and violincer, but Ernest got violintist when he wipped out that big chain.

Yo Yo: Duncan Imperial? I could never get mine to “walk the dog.” Did I get ripped off?

 

[Phil]

Interesting thread ...

I'm based in Northern California, and though obviously women's basketball fans are aware of UConn, I'm not sure how many, if any, Stanford fans would know KML was the Huskies' leading scorer. And though she is a great player -- I saw her through high school -- she's not EDD or even Breanna Stewart, who I think is the next great WBB player. People don't know her yet, though, and I'd say the best known UConn figure is Geno Auriemma.

As for volleyball, it's a huge competitor for girls' basketball here in Northern California. At the school I coached at last, which had won four state championships and was coming off three straight 20-win seasons with a high-scoring team, freshman basketball was dropped due to lack of interest -- 60 girls tried out for volleyball (out of a population of 150 or so girls). At the school I'm coaching at now, we have three volleyball teams. I will be lucky to get 10 for basketball.

The reason you don't hear of girls picking volleyball is that they do so at a young age. A 6-3 girl at my previous high school chose volleyball as a sophomore. She would have been a borderline D-1 player, if not higher, had she focused on basketball.

Very few girls can play both once they get past middle school because of the huge demands of volleyball club teams, which go year-round and claim that you can't get a scholarship unless you play year round. And they charge big bucks to do so, which motivates the club coaches to not allow any of their players to also play basketball (which they would, as the skill set is much the same).

Given UConn's success, I would expect basketball is still the dominant high school sport in that state, but then again I can't recall the last time I had a Connecticut high school team ranked in the top 25.

Thanks for dropping in Clay.

I thought your piece achieved its goal - sat something a little off the beaten path, and see if it stirs up a reaction.

I think it is quite fair to ask hard questions about the WNBA model, and wonder if it will survive.

I think it is quite fair to point to some questions about the NCAA near-term landscape, although one partial answer is that end of the year stories are often difficult to predict in advance, so I'm not yet concerned.

I did have two mild nitpicks—complaining that Griner is "not particularly media-friendly" may be accurate, but that a media issue, not necessarily a fan issue. Ditto UConn, the media likes new stories, or at least new variations on a theme, and UConn might be boringly great. Boring for the pundits, who struggle to find yet another way to talk about them, not so boring for the greatest group of fans in the country. OK, I'll concede, fans of anyone other than Baylor or UConn, might prefer a different landscape, but to paraphrase Geno, go for it, who's stopping you (just to be clear, directed at the rest of wbb, not the media)?

Not everyone can name the top star at UConn? Well a couple thoughts. One, that's not such a bad thing. KML had a very good first season, but can still step up her game. There are legitimate other contenders for the top dog, and that's a good thing. Second, to repeat a theme, naming the top player at a school is an annoying media habit, who like to talk about player X and the team she is on. Understandable, but sometimes annoying.

I'm not saying everything is fine in the land of wbb. Complacency is a the beginning of the end, and some of your suggestions ought to be heeded. Your comments about what ESPN is doing with high school sports coverage is troubling.

 

[alexrgct]

The best known figure in Alabama football is Bear Bryant, and the second is Nick Saban. I don't see that as a problem. College sports programs are more readily identified their head coaches than their players.

 

[HuskyNan]

Given UConn's success, I would expect basketball is still the dominant high school sport in that state, but then again I can't recall the last time I had a Connecticut high school team ranked in the top 25.

Actually, I would say soccer is the dominant sport in Connecticut. Like most Northeastern states, the top sports are (in no particular order): soccer, lacrosse, hockey (ice and field) and baseball.

Good to see you, Clay.

 

[Clay Kallam]

Some numbers, from the National Federation of High Schools, re participation:

In 2007-8: Basketball 449,450; volleyball 397,968
In 2011-12: Basketball 403,985; volleyball 418,903

 

[Phil]

Hey I love volleyball. I was never any good at basketball, but played, sort of competively, at volleyball. Got our asses whipped by Springfield, but they were pretty good. Had a club team called Crowbar of Love when I was in Chicago.

It's a little more regional, strong west coast of course, Long Beach and Stanford and the UC schools, then midwest with Nebraska, and of course, Penn State, but not as much in the east other than PSU.

Sounds like it is growing faster than bball, may have to join the new bandwagon.

 

[easttexastrash]

Volleyball can be more exciting to watch than basketball, at times. A great spike is almost the equivalent to a dunk due to the power and explosiveness. Watching Destinee Hooker fly through the air and just whale on the ball is incredibly entertaining. There's not a lot of explosiveness in wonen's basketball, which is why so many people go ape crap when a dunk does occur.

 

[UcMiami]

Some numbers, from the National Federation of High Schools, re participation:

In 2007-8: Basketball 449,450; volleyball 397,968
In 2011-12: Basketball 403,985; volleyball 418,903

Hey - thanks for posting. I am a little surprised by the numbers, more by the decrease in BB than increase in VB. Wonder where the missing 25,000 girls have gone - is this cuts to funding or increases in other sports? I love both sports but think they are very different - obviously height and general agility are pluses in either. The other plus with both is you can play competitive games 2 on 2 and up so for team sports you don't have to get full teams together for competition. And neither requires personal equipment.

 

[ochoopsfan]

What Clay Kallum has talked about is true in my area, Orange County, CA.
In the past few years several HS teams no longer field a Frosh/Soph teams. 4 or 5 years ago this would never happen unless it was a small private school. I dont think it is a financial problem as the same schools have no problem fielding those level teams for V-Ball. I do not know how Soccer works with JV and F/S teams.
The number of AAU club teams has dropped, as a few of the teams disbanded.
In fact just two years ago the best AAU team in OC, Cal Swish,(Lauren Engelns team) had 5 teams participating in the various tournaments during the spring summer season(about 50-55 girls). This past summer they had only 2 teams. I have no idea what happened to the 30-33 extra players that would have filled those teams.
The amount of top players, those I would consider to get a few offers from various D1 BCS schools, has dropped too. In fact I would be willing to guess that the only girls, from OC, getting D1 offers from a BCS school will be the Samuelson sisters, Karlie(who verballed to Stanford) and her sister Katie Lou. This covers the classes of 2013/14/15.
As far as I understand the V-Ball and Soccer club teams are loaded with teams and players in OC.
Certainly a disturbing trend in my area. I used to have my pick of HS games to see during the season, now there arent as many matchups that have a lot of talented players.

 

[Icebear]

Finances are being pressured all over the country in the country since the 2007-8 collapse. Some held on for awhile but there has been compression in many local sports because of pressure on school budgets. Our local system has suffered extensive fiscal cutbacks and has now put sports on a pay to play basis.

 

[UcMiami]

Finances are being pressured all over the country in the country since the 2007-8 collapse. Some held on for awhile but there has been compression in many local sports because of pressure on school budgets. Our local system has suffered extensive fiscal cutbacks and has now put sports on a pay to play basis.

Yeah - I saw where I think a Steeler player is paying the entire bill for his HS football team - I thought that was a really great action. I wonder if we will now have scandals related to high schools/hs 'boosters' paying the bill for selected ringers on their teams? (I guess we have already had a few questionable tactics at the HS level, but I could see more issues related to this.)

 

[Wonkster]

Interesting thread ... Given UConn's success, I would expect basketball is still the dominant high school sport in that state, but then again I can't recall the last time I had a Connecticut high school team ranked in the top 25.

Clay, you might have to wait until Hell freezes over. Connecticut has just one-tenth of the population of California and only one percent of the whole US population.