So, with Geno as #1 WCBB Coach... | The Boneyard

So, with Geno as #1 WCBB Coach...

DefenseBB

DefenseBB

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Has Kim Mulkey supplanted MM (I refuse to type her name as any form of acknowledgment due to her lack of respect for opponents and coach’s in not using their names) as the #2 coach in active service? She has a loaded team this year, is in on more top talent discussions as a destination and has 1 more title than the ND coach.
And she’s got a better baseball arm to boot!
I say Mulkey is now the next best coach! What say you my fellow brethren?
 
DefenseBB said:
Has Kim Mulkey supplanted MM (I refuse to type her name as any form of acknowledgment due to her lack of respect for opponents and coach’s in not using their names) as the #2 coach in active service? She has a loaded team this year, is in on more top talent discussions as a destination and has 1 more title than the ND coach.
And she’s got a better baseball arm to boot!
I say Mulkey is now the next best coach! What say you my fellow brethren?
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Not even in MM's league. For years she refused to play us when we were at our best. MM had too much class to duck us.
 
bballnut90 said:
I'd put Muffet over Kim right now, after this season who knows. If Kim wins back to back titles, she arguably supplants anyone (including Geno) as #1 current coach in the country.
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Not even close. Don't understand how anyone can write this while Geno is in the midst of 12 straight Final Four appearances. Tell you what, let's wait until Kim gets 6 championships and we can begin to have the conversation. :confused:
 
JonathanXIV said:
Not even close. Don't understand how anyone can write this while Geno is in the midst of 12 straight Final Four appearances. Tell you what, let's wait until Kim gets 6 championships and we can begin to have the conversation. :confused:
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I know, right? Geno won 3 in a row, then won 2 in a row and then won 4 in a row. He's in the midst of a streak of 12 straight Final Fours. But all Mulkey has to do is win back-to-back and voila she's the best. Good lord.
 
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JonathanXIV said:
Not even close. Don't understand how anyone can write this while Geno is in the midst of 12 straight Final Four appearances. Tell you what, let's wait until Kim gets 6 championships and we can begin to have the conversation. :confused:
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“Not even close”? Are you kidding? You can place MM ahead of her if you want (and it can be justified based on criteria) but Mulkey certainly has dominated her conference more than anyone this side of Geno, she has regularly been in top teams discussions since she became a head coach (2000) having won titles 2005, 2012 and 2019. With 3 very disparate teams. Has she underachieved at times, yes but so has MM and Geno AND TARA. Tara’s been a head coach since 1978 and only won 2 tiles with Jen Azzi 1990/1992 so while she too has been in many Final Fours, she’s noticeably lacking in titles for 27 years! MM has seen her recruiting tail off dramatically since Jackie Young and has a pretty thin cupboard now and nothing noticeably top notch on the horizon. Your view of “ducking” aside, Kim’s near term success is more anticipated than MM. Now Tara has oogles of talent on this team but also has a much harder conference than ever. Not sure I see a title in her near term future but that’s why they play the games. Mulkey IS closer to them if not past them now is my point.
 
bballnut90 said:
I'd put Muffet over Kim right now, after this season who knows. If Kim wins back to back titles, she arguably supplants anyone (including Geno) as #1 current coach in the country.
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If you can find someone to make the argument for Kim as better than Geno, you'd certainly have no lack of people who would argue back. Vociferously.
 
As long as Mulkey's history contains having the greatest center in WCBB while only winning one championship she'll never be considered the best in my book. As for second place, I'll take Muffet and Tara for on court decisions. Kim is still third, although as a person she's first class in my book.
 
Tara doesn't have recent Rings (Championships), but I have to give her a vote for being the best Coach after Geno. She's probably the best coach if you give her time to prepare for an opponent. Tara gets a lot of recruits because she coaches at Stanford, but probably loses three or four more because players can't meet Stanford's academic requirements.
 
DefenseBB said:
“Not even close”? Are you kidding? You can place MM ahead of her if you want (and it can be justified based on criteria) but Mulkey certainly has dominated her conference more than anyone this side of Geno, she has regularly been in top teams discussions since she became a head coach (2000) having won titles 2005, 2012 and 2019. With 3 very disparate teams. Has she underachieved at times, yes but so has MM and Geno AND TARA. Tara’s been a head coach since 1978 and only won 2 tiles with Jen Azzi 1990/1992 so while she too has been in many Final Fours, she’s noticeably lacking in titles for 27 years! MM has seen her recruiting tail off dramatically since Jackie Young and has a pretty thin cupboard now and nothing noticeably top notch on the horizon. Your view of “ducking” aside, Kim’s near term success is more anticipated than MM. Now Tara has oogles of talent on this team but also has a much harder conference than ever. Not sure I see a title in her near term future but that’s why they play the games. Mulkey IS closer to them if not past them now is my point.
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Yes. Not. Even. Close. Choose your criteria. National Championships. Career Wins. Winning Percentage. Final Four appearances. Winning streaks. International success. WNBA players. In every single category Geno is ahead of Kim, sometimes far ahead. Let Kim actually surpass Geno in something before proclaiming that she has surpassed Geno as the #1 coach.
 
DefenseBB said:
Has Kim Mulkey supplanted MM (I refuse to type her name as any form of acknowledgment due to her lack of respect for opponents and coach’s in not using their names) as the #2 coach in active service? She has a loaded team this year, is in on more top talent discussions as a destination and has 1 more title than the ND coach.
And she’s got a better baseball arm to boot!
I say Mulkey is now the next best coach! What say you my fellow brethren?
Expand ...

Mulkey has 3 titles but only 4 final fours total if my math is correct. Muffet has 2 titles, but 9 Final Fours.

Muffet's misfortune is that her best teams ran up against two of the best college players ever in Griner and Stewart. However, the 2011 and 2019 titles were there for the taking and ND came up short. On the other hand, Mulkey arguably should have won #3 earlier given that she had Griner.

As of late, ND has been a little more consistently great, I'd say. The win-loss records are similar but ND generally plays a tougher schedule.

Kim is definitely set up better going forward roster-wise, so the pendulum is going to swing her way in terms of achievement.

We'll get to see a different side of Muffet's coaching ability this coming year with a small, thin roster. You do have to pin the transfers and recent recruiting misses on Muffet as part of a coaches job is recruiting. That being said, ND still has the potential for a top 2020 class if things break right, so this could just be a 1 or 2 year blip.

I'm on Muffet for now but we'll see how things go. If Muffet can't score some more top-25 recruits in the next couple classes, Kim and Tara will pass her by.
 
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bballnut90 said:
I'd put Muffet over Kim right now, after this season who knows. If Kim wins back to back titles, she arguably supplants anyone (including Geno) as #1 current coach in the country.
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Lol
 
I suspect some of you lack air conditioning. 577537915467d.image.jpg
 
JonathanXIV said:
Yes. Not. Even. Close. Choose your criteria. National Championships. Career Wins. Winning Percentage. Final Four appearances. Winning streaks. International success. WNBA players. In every single category Geno is ahead of Kim, sometimes far ahead. Let Kim actually surpass Geno in something before proclaiming that she has surpassed Geno as the #1 coach.
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Time out! Let’s clarify something-I misunderstood your response to @bballnut90 on the not even close comment as relating Kim not being close to MM. As my title of the thread is Geno is #1, No
Way is Kim near Geno. I am saying Kim may have the edge on MM and Tara for the #2 spot.
Whew, didn’t mean to dust up any ire on this!
 
Sonny44 said:
Not even in MM's league. For years she refused to play us when we were at our best. MM had too much class to duck us.
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ND was in our league until the last few years. She couldn’t duck us. Muffet is an excellent coach but an ungracious whiner. And her first championship came when our two senior AAs were both out of the tournament and with her dominant center it took their comeback to beat a very young team. It took her almost two decades to win another.

Mulkey winning one NC with Griner (coupled with Simms for two years) says something. But she’s a very good coach.
 
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This is a conversation that can be attacked or supported in many, many angles. I think you could make a solid case that any one coach is better than another one in a game...season...or during a tournament. You could argue recruits (more with less or less with more). You could argue support form the fan base or the university or college...but you can not argue that Geno is anything but No.1.....I am sorry and I am not a UCONN fan (nor enemy) but the facts are the facts. These other coaches are sneaking in one here and there...it's just not the same as what Geno has accomplished...case closed !
 
JonathanXIV said:
Not even close. Don't understand how anyone can write this while Geno is in the midst of 12 straight Final Four appearances. Tell you what, let's wait until Kim gets 6 championships and we can begin to have the conversation. :confused:
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Note how I said current coach, not all time. Anyone who wins consecutive championships would have a strong argument for being at the top of their profession during that time frame.
 
bballnut90 said:
Note how I said current coach, not all time. Anyone who wins consecutive championships would have a strong argument for being at the top of their profession during that time frame.
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If you do that...then current means the last game. You could even say the last season...but that is still not even close to being an accurate statement. You can not judge the coach in that manner. that sounds like an ESPN filler that they use to fill space. The current power poll changes every week for them. If one coach has a two or three year run you could make the argument that they are on a roll and then maybe make an argument that the tide has turned...but not before that happens. I might add that no one has won consecutive championships for you to even consider anyone else.
 
Really good question, and not as easy to answer as it seems. But if we're looking for an easy answer, then we have to accept Coach Geno's opinion, and he has been unequivocal that MM is the next best coach in the nation. She has fewer national championships because 1) for many years her teams weren't that good, and more recently, she's gone up against UConn teams that were simply better.

But if we're talking about right now, then Mulkey and Staley have a claim. Of course, we have to differentiate between a great "coach," and a great "recruiter." Mulkey is likely the hands-down best recruiter in the nation. She's loaded year after year. And after her there's Staley, and then Walz. Coach Geno has had two or three down recruiting years recently, though he will always be rated the best "coach" in the nation. Even John Wooden late in his life called the UConn women's team "the best five-man team in the nation."

For so many years good recruiting and great coaching made the question moot: it was Geno. But now we're seeing a lot more competitive recruiting seasons, a lot of great kids are going elsewhere, even more than in years past. And Baylor, South Carolina, Stanford, Louisville, ND, and Mississippi State have competent coaches now.

So it's tightening up. Best "coaching"? Best "recruiting"? Best combo? Hmmm...
 
I respect MM a great deal as a basketball coach. She seems to be especially good at strategy/game planning. What stands out to me is in-game adjustments.

I hearken back to the E8 game against Oregon two or three years ago. ND was rather stagnant all through the first half and was simply not clicking. But they came out of the locker room and owned the third quarter, turning the game around. Very impressive. I have to think MM had something to do with it beyond a Knute Rockne speech.
 
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Regarding Tara, I like to play this thought game.

Imagine an alternative universe in which neither Geno nor Pat were ever born. Hold everything else constant.

Who would be considered the greatest WCBB coach of all time?

Tara.
 
Gus Mahler said:
Regarding Tara, I like to play this thought game.

Imagine an alternative universe in which neither Geno nor Pat were ever born. Hold everything else constant.

Who would be considered the greatest WCBB coach of all time?

Tara.
Expand ...

Tara or Muffet. Take out Pat and Geno from 1995-present and here's my best guess for number of titles distributed:

1995-honestly probably Virginia based on performance vs. Tennessee/Connecticut. Outside shot for Georgia and Stanford.

1996-Georgia or Virginia

1997-Old Dominion

1998-La Tech or UNC

2000-Penn State or Rutgers

2002-Oklahoma

2003-Duke or Texas

2004-Minnesota or Penn State

2007-UNC or Rutgers

2008-LSU or Stanford

2009-Stanford

2010-Stanford

2013-Notre Dame

2014-Notre Dame

2015-Notre Dame

2016-Oregon State


Both Tara and Muffet probably have around 5 titles without Tennessee or Connecticut in the fold if you take out their programs (players included).

Honestly though, I think the biggest difference maker would be who lands the marquee recruits who led Tennessee and UCONN to titles. Pat and Geno dominated the recruiting scene for a good 15 year stretch.

If you put DT, Maya, Parker, Stewart and Holdsclaw at different programs, that drastically changes the landscape of WCBB. Other marquee players like Tamika Catchings, Moriah Jefferson, Sue Bird, and Tina Charles are all going to different schools too. I'm not sure any of them have considered Stanford or Notre Dame as finalists.

Plus, if Parker (and Moore) chose Duke over UT/UCONN, GG probably stays and wins a title (or several) and possibly creates a dynasty there. Outcomes would be impossible to predict but sure are fun to think about.
 
bballnut90 said:
Note how I said current coach, not all time. Anyone who wins consecutive championships would have a strong argument for being at the top of their profession during that time frame.
Expand ...
If you're going to restrict the list to those teams that have repeated as champions, I'm not sure you're going to differentiate much. Since the NCAA tournament began in 1982 only 3 programs have repeated as champions.

Southern Cal, once, 1984
Tennessee, 3 times, 1997, 1998, 2008
Connecticut, 6 times, 2003, 2004, 2010, 2014, 2015, 2016
 
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