So, with Geno as #1 WCBB Coach...

[Plebe]

Griner had Sims who was a 3x All American and an AP 1st Teamer during 2013. She was better than anyone Parker, DT (her last 2 years) or Holdsclaw (her first two years) had on their teams. Hayden/Madden/Pope/Williams never became WNBA players but they were very good collegiate role players who logged big minutes each year from 2011 to 2013. Having a core of Griner/Sims plus other veteran role players who excelled at what they did (scoring, rebounding, tough defense, taking care of the ball, etc) should have yielded more than 1 Final Four in 3 years. Yes, Louisville was definitely a lightning strike scenario but at the end of the day a big part of one's legacy is championships and Final Fours. With Kim, I think she'd be cut a little more slack if she didn't go through a 6 year Final Four drought despite having several teams capable of making it to the Final Four (or further). I think there was a big switch in her demeanor this past year that worked well with her team. She seems a lot more relaxed on the sidelines than she did just 2-3 years ago. This next year has some challenges for her team but she has the pieces to repeat.

I hear this statement repeated a lot, but I don't think it's really fair to count Sims' freshman year, when Sims was not yet an All-American and no one else on the team was particularly great. And again, they lost to an A&M team that Baylor had beaten 3 times but got hot at just the right time -- and went on to win the whole thing. So if this upset happens in the national semifinal instead of the Elite 8, then Kim's reputation is less assailable?

 

[UConnCat]

I believe Kim needs to win 5 championships in a row to claim she is at the top of her profession over anyone else. Maybe throw in a World Championship and Olympic Gold too.

 

[bballnut90]

I hear this statement repeated a lot, but I don't think it's really fair to count Sims' freshman year, when Sims was not yet an All-American and no one else on the team was particularly great. And again, they lost to an A&M team that Baylor had beaten 3 times but got hot at just the right time -- and went on to win the whole thing. So if this upset happens in the national semifinal instead of the Elite 8, then Kim's reputation is less assailable?

Somewhat less. Fair or unfair, underachieving in 2 of the 3 years they had Sims/Griner is how a lot of people (including myself) look back on those years. Most thought Baylor was a lock for Final Four in 2011 and a heavy title favorite in 2013. The expectations were extremely high and the results werent close to the level expected. All that said, Kim is no doubt a legend and one of the best of all time.

 

[Justavisitor]

Not even close. Don't understand how anyone can write this while Geno is in the midst of 12 straight Final Four appearances. Tell you what, let's wait until Kim gets 6 championships and we can begin to have the conversation.

Because Muffett does more with less and this is why I have her at the top of the list. She's even beaten Geno with less talent.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Because Muffett does more with less and this is why I have her at the top of the list. She's even beaten Geno with less talent.

And yet, Muffet did less with more last season.

 

[UConnCat]

Yet, Muffett did less with more last season.

Truth.

 

[Justavisitor]

Yet, Muffett did less with more last season.

You should be familiar with that, considering her less beat Geno's more.

 

[Plebe]

Because Muffett does more with less and this is why I have her at the top of the list. She's even beaten Geno with less talent.

I would think that Muffet’s press officer should at least know how to spell her name right.

 

[UConnCat]

You should be familiar with that, considering her less beat Geno's more.

Yeah, no. You're just mad because of your team.

 

[Justavisitor]

Yeah, no. You're just mad because of your team.

Now, who sounds mad? LMAO

So nah, if I were mad, I wouldn't be watching. There's too much to love about women's basketball.

 

[UConnCat]

Now, who sounds mad? LMAO

So nah, if I were mad, I wouldn't be watching. There's too much to love about women's basketball.

We're all feeling your love here. We thank you for that.

 

[JS]

You should be familiar with that, considering her less beat Geno's more.

Twice is enough for your opinion, JAV.

We're not here to indulge in a troll & response syndrome.

 

[JonathanXIV]

You should be familiar with that, considering her less beat Geno's more.

Not too often, since UConn leads the series against ND 37-13. But hey, a 26% winning percentage is certainly something to gloat about.

 

[UConnFranklin]

I'd put Muffet over Kim right now, after this season who knows. If Kim wins back to back titles, she arguably supplants anyone (including Geno) as #1 current coach in the country.

HaHaHaHaHa!! What are you thinking? Of maybe you're not thinking at all!!!

 

[Justavisitor]

Not too often, since UConn leads the series against ND 37-13. But hey, a 26% winning percentage is certainly something to gloat about.

I'm only talking about the match ups in which the talent level at ND improved. This would be Diggins' sophomore season and after. ND has been considerably better after the talent level improved. I always looked at ND as the team that surplanted Rutgers back during the Big East conference days.

What's interesting (or not) is that winning still goes back to roster, more so than the coach. Coaching can definitely make or break a team, but it starts with the talent. Some players would be great regardless of coach. Some players are so much better than the rest that the winning team is the one they play on.

My point about Muffet is that she has beaten Geno when not having the best players. However, Geno has always had the best players when facing ND. If ND wins, it's an upset. If UConn wins, that's supposed to happen.

I remember when TN had the 20 - 0 edge over ND. When Muffet finally got better recruits, she flipped the script. She also didn't need the highest rated recruits to get it done. However, that success began after Summitt fell ill.

I place Muffet at the top because she knows how to make it happen with the roster she has and she doesn't need a number 1 recruit on her team to get it done. Their last title was without a true point guard. That rarely, if ever, happens. Maybe she's just great at evaluating talent and knows how to build a team without a number one.

Both Summitt and Auriemma have had world beaters on their rosters in their most recent titles.

 

[bbsamjj]

I would not say Geno has "always" had the best players when facing ND. In fact, I'd argue both this year and last year, ND has had the better team. All five of ND's starters were draft in the top 19 of the WNBA draft, including #1, #5, and #11.

 

[UConnCat]

I'm only talking about the match ups in which the talent level at ND improved. This would be Diggins' sophomore season and after. ND has been considerably better after the talent level improved. I always looked at ND as the team that surplanted Rutgers back during the Big East conference days.

What's interesting (or not) is that winning still goes back to roster, more so than the coach. Coaching can definitely make or break a team, but it starts with the talent. Some players would be great regardless of coach. Some players are so much better than the rest that the winning team is the one they play on.

My point about Muffet is that she has beaten Geno when not having the best players. However, Geno has always had the best players when facing ND. If ND wins, it's an upset. If UConn wins, that's supposed to happen.

I remember when TN had the 20 - 0 edge over ND. When Muffet finally got better recruits, she flipped the script. She also didn't need the highest rated recruits to get it done. However, that success began after Summitt fell ill.

I place Muffet at the top because she knows how to make it happen with the roster she has and she doesn't need a number 1 recruit on her team to get it done. Their last title was without a true point guard. That rarely, if ever, happens. Maybe she's just great at evaluating talent and knows how to build a team without a number one.

Both Summitt and Auriemma have had world beaters on their rosters in their most recent titles.

UConn had the better team in 2018 and ND won in the FF
ND had the better team in 2019 and beat UConn in the FF.
ND had the better team in 2013 and lost to UConn in the FF (maybe Geno's best coaching job)
ND had the better team in 2011 and beat UConn but then inexplicably lost to Texas A&M in the FF.

It happens. Sometimes players and coaches meet the moment and sometimes they don't.

Part of being a great coach is being able to recruit great players and coach them. Geno has been to more Final Fours, won more national championships (11>>>>>>>>>2), produced more All-Americans and produced more Olympians. But sure.

BTW, I'm still amazed the Lady Vols lost in 2 straight Final Fours to Diana Taurasi and that crew she played with in 2003 and 2004.

 

[Plebe]

I'm only talking about the match ups in which the talent level at ND improved. This would be Diggins' sophomore season and after. ND has been considerably better after the talent level improved. I always looked at ND as the team that surplanted Rutgers back during the Big East conference days.

What's interesting (or not) is that winning still goes back to roster, more so than the coach. Coaching can definitely make or break a team, but it starts with the talent. Some players would be great regardless of coach. Some players are so much better than the rest that the winning team is the one they play on.

My point about Muffet is that she has beaten Geno when not having the best players. However, Geno has always had the best players when facing ND. If ND wins, it's an upset. If UConn wins, that's supposed to happen.

I remember when TN had the 20 - 0 edge over ND. When Muffet finally got better recruits, she flipped the script. She also didn't need the highest rated recruits to get it done. However, that success began after Summitt fell ill.

I place Muffet at the top because she knows how to make it happen with the roster she has and she doesn't need a number 1 recruit on her team to get it done. Their last title was without a true point guard. That rarely, if ever, happens. Maybe she's just great at evaluating talent and knows how to build a team without a number one.

Both Summitt and Auriemma have had world beaters on their rosters in their most recent titles.

It's interesting that despite being at a silver-spoon institution awash in privilege like Notre Dame, it took Muffet so long to consistently field good teams.

Now if she had stayed at Lehigh and built it up into a powerhouse like Geno did at UConn, then I'd be impressed. One of the true testaments to Geno's greatness is how he was able to build from literally nothing at a location like Storrs. That's a level of greatness that Muffet can only be jealous of.

 

[Justavisitor]

UConn had the better team in 2018 and ND won in the FF
ND had the better team in 2019 and beat UConn in the FF.
ND had the better team in 2013 and lost to UConn in the FF (maybe Geno's best coaching job)
ND had the better team in 2011 and beat UConn but then inexplicably lost to Texas A&M in the FF.

It happens. Sometimes players and coaches meet the moment and sometimes they don't.

Part of being a great coach is being able to recruit great players and coach them. Geno has been to more Final Fours, won more national championships (11>>>>>>>>>2), produced more All-Americans and produced more Olympians. But sure.

BTW, I'm still amazed the Lady Vols lost in 2 straight Final Fours to Diana Taurasi and that crew she played with in 2003 and 2004.

Not so sure I agree with those assessments.

UConn had the highest rated recruits in all of those match ups.
2019 - #1 KLS; #1 CW, #3 CD (Notre Dame's top recruit was #2 ranked and often injured B. Turner. Shepherd was #3 to KLS at #1. Notre Dame's best player was in the same class as CD and ranked outside the top 10. Arike was #10.)

2018 - pretty much the same as 2018, but ND did not have Turner.

2013 and 2011 UConn still had the highest rated players. The most brilliant thing about 2013 was that Stewart grew up.


BTW, I'm still amazed that Candace Parker never lost against UConn. (see how that works )

 

[Justavisitor]

It's interesting that despite being at a silver-spoon institution awash in privilege like Notre Dame, it took Muffet so long to consistently field good teams.

Now if she had stayed at Lehigh and built it up into a powerhouse like Geno did at UConn, then I'd be impressed. One of the true testaments to Geno's greatness is how he was able to build from literally nothing at a location like Storrs. That's a level of greatness that Muffet can only be jealous of.

What remains to be seen is how will the loss of Ivey impact the success of ND? Much of their success can be tied back to guards that wanted to learn from her. Maybe we should be discussing Ivey and not Muffet.

In addition to her achievements in player development with such proteges as All-Americans Skylar Diggins, Jewell Loyd, Lindsay Allen and Arike Ogunbowale, Ivey emerged as a rising star on the recruiting trail, with a sharp eye for young up-and-coming talent. In fact, she helped Notre Dame attract top-12 incoming classes in nine of her last 10 years. In her last class, Coach Ivey nabbed No. 6 Samantha Brunelle and No. 18 Anaya Peoples.
What’s more, Ivey displayed brilliant prowess when it came to scouting and in-game strategy. In her last six years alone, she was directly responsible for creating the game plans that led to victories over Duke (12 times), Tennessee (8 times), Florida State (7 times), Connecticut (5 times), Maryland (three times), Louisville (8 times), Syracuse (7 times), UCLA (three times), Baylor (twice), Texas A&M (3 times) and South Carolina, among many others.

 

[diggerfoot]

It's interesting that despite being at a silver-spoon institution awash in privilege like Notre Dame, it took Muffet so long to consistently field good teams.

Now if she had stayed at Lehigh and built it up into a powerhouse like Geno did at UConn, then I'd be impressed. One of the true testaments to Geno's greatness is how he was able to build from literally nothing at a location like Storrs. That's a level of greatness that Muffet can only be jealous of.

Glad to see you bring this up! Though, unfortunately it had to be in response to trolling. There are two things striking about Auriemma's tenure as a coach. The most talked about is the consistent greatness he can get from high level recruits, with the record number of championships as testament. The other is the extent to which he built a program up from nothing, also unprecedented.

Few remember or even knew that the '95 Tennessee team was touted as one of their best collections of talent ever. They were the heavy favorite preseason. As for UConn? They were the team that prompted VanDerveer to remark "We have six Nykesha Sales." She predicted Tennessee to win the championship game after her team was clobbered by UConn, based on her perceptions of both coaching and talent.

Yet UConn won its first championship, culminating the greatest program building feat in history, against a team thought to be one of the greatest collections of talent up until that time. Of course, UConn did indeed have it's own great players, but certainly no one saw Wolters or Rizzotti as player of the year material coming out of high school. Few D I programs even wanted Wolters. You might say the elevation of their games by Auriemma was similar to the elevation of the program. Not even Riley's ascendance to college greatness matched that of Wolters, plus ND's ascendance as a program was remarkably slow, as you mention, given what they had going for them.

So when a UConn fan hears "You have more talent," we can and should hearken back to the fact that Auriemma made something out of nothing better than any other coach in the history of the game. The fact that he no longer can be in a position to do that should not be held against him.

 

[bbsamjj]

Not so sure I agree with those assessments.

UConn had the highest rated recruits in all of those match ups.
2019 - #1 KLS; #1 CW, #3 CD (Notre Dame's top recruit was #2 ranked and often injured B. Turner. Shepherd was #3 to KLS at #1. Notre Dame's best player was in the same class as CD and ranked outside the top 10. Arike was #10.)

2018 - pretty much the same as 2018, but ND did not have Turner.

2013 and 2011 UConn still had the highest rated players. The most brilliant thing about 2013 was that Stewart grew up.


BTW, I'm still amazed that Candace Parker never lost against UConn. (see how that works )

Recruit rankings from one service (Hoopgurlz) is not exactly an accurate way to determine "who had the best talent." There were services that had Ashley Robinson ranked ahead of Diana Taurasi, and Strother ranked ahead of Seimone Augustus. Once their careers began, it was obvious who was the better player. Also being #1 in a weak year is not the same as being #5 in a great year obviously. Plus, players are of different experience levels and have history of injuries.

ND started five seniors this year who were all highly regarded out of high school and had a history of winning in the post season. Sure, CW was ranked slightly ahead of Jackie Young 3 years ago by one service, but Jackie Young was just picked #1 in the WNBA draft as a junior. UConn had comparable talent, but I think ND was the better team.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Not so sure I agree with those assessments.

UConn had the highest rated recruits in all of those match ups.
2019 - #1 KLS; #1 CW, #3 CD (Notre Dame's top recruit was #2 ranked and often injured B. Turner. Shepherd was #3 to KLS at #1. Notre Dame's best player was in the same class as CD and ranked outside the top 10. Arike was #10.)

2018 - pretty much the same as 2018, but ND did not have Turner.

2013 and 2011 UConn still had the highest rated players. The most brilliant thing about 2013 was that Stewart grew up.


BTW, I'm still amazed that Candace Parker never lost against UConn. (see how that works )

One (and there are more than a few) of the problems with your "analysis" of what team has more talent, is that it uses recruit rankings as if they are static. You presume that the ranking remains the same for all four years of a player's career. Even if the rankings are a valid means of measuring the talent of a player, it's certainly plausible that a #1 ranked player as a freshman doesn't perform as well as a lesser ranked player who is a senior. Was Collier the same player as a freshman than she was as a senior? Is anyone?

 

[diggerfoot]

BTW, I'm still amazed that Candace Parker never lost against UConn. (see how that works )

Ironic you should bring that up, seeing how you've defended poor Warlick with attrition and chemistry issues that you alleged should not be held against her.

The Parker years for Tennessee were the leanest recruiting years for UConn since '95. They even had an entire recruiting class of three leave. Their best player on paper was the injured transfer Hunter. There was also at least one chemistry problem, documented in Heart of a Husky.

Ah, but since you are a defender of Warlick, who had even better talent on paper than Auriemma had during those lean years, then I suppose you think Auriemma did a marvelous job of still always making the Regionals and losing to Parker led teams by respectable margins. Respectable margins were something that not even Summitt always managed against UConn.

 

[UConnCat]

Not so sure I agree with those assessments.

UConn had the highest rated recruits in all of those match ups.
2019 - #1 KLS; #1 CW, #3 CD (Notre Dame's top recruit was #2 ranked and often injured B. Turner. Shepherd was #3 to KLS at #1. Notre Dame's best player was in the same class as CD and ranked outside the top 10. Arike was #10.)

2018 - pretty much the same as 2018, but ND did not have Turner.

2013 and 2011 UConn still had the highest rated players. The most brilliant thing about 2013 was that Stewart grew up.


BTW, I'm still amazed that Candace Parker never lost against UConn. (see how that works )

LOL. Rankings. WTH? As you should know, rankings and how players produce in college are two different things. It's about the team. Experience also matters, particularly when it comes to FF games. All 5 of ND starters in 2019 were drafted in the first round. Brianna Turner often injured? She looked okay to me. It was Lou who was coming of a late season fracture in her vertebrae. BTW, Young and Ogunbowale were both drafted ahead of Lou and Napheesa. Rankings, right? Williams was a freshman and Walker a sophomore. You're wrong on 2019.

In 2011 UConn had Maya and a bunch of inexperienced players. Dolson was the starting center and we all remember how she was mocked as overweight and overmatched that season. Hartley, also a freshman, was the starting point guard and not ready for the bright lights. ND was the more experienced and better team once the tournament started and it didn't matter that UConn had Maya. Muffet knew she had the better team by the end of that season.

Forgot 2012. ND beat UConn in OT in the FF semis. The teams were pretty evenly matched except UConn didn't have anyone as good as Skylar Diggins.

In 2013 ND beat UConn 3 straight games in the regular season and BET championship game. ND was the favorite in the FF game and rightly so. Stewart grew up after a very rocky freshman season. She played 7 minutes against Baylor. In the regular season finale against ND Stewie played 40 minutes and made 1 basket.

No one who knows anything about WBB was surprised Parker never lost to UConn. The Huskies weren't very good (no FF in '06 and '07) and Parker and Tenn were really good. Parker had some really good teammates. Taurasi's UConn teams beat Tenn in the Final Four! UConn's PG was Maria Conlon! Barb Turner was the PF!