So, with Geno as #1 WCBB Coach...

[Plebe]

Not so sure I agree with those assessments.

UConn had the highest rated recruits in all of those match ups.
2019 - #1 KLS; #1 CW, #3 CD (Notre Dame's top recruit was #2 ranked and often injured B. Turner. Shepherd was #3 to KLS at #1. Notre Dame's best player was in the same class as CD and ranked outside the top 10. Arike was #10.)

2018 - pretty much the same as 2018, but ND did not have Turner.

2013 and 2011 UConn still had the highest rated players. The most brilliant thing about 2013 was that Stewart grew up.


BTW, I'm still amazed that Candace Parker never lost against UConn. (see how that works )

So many flaws, so little time. For now, suffice it to say:

One of the surest signs of a feeble argument is one that reverts to a mere tallying of "recruitment rankings" as the beginning, middle and end of the story.

 

[UConnCat]

Recruit rankings from one service (Hoopgurlz) is not exactly an accurate way to determine "who had the best talent." There were services that had Ashley Robinson ranked ahead of Diana Taurasi, and Strother ranked ahead of Seimone Augustus. Once their careers began, it was obvious who was the better player. Also being #1 in a weak year is not the same as being #5 in a great year obviously. Plus, players are of different experience levels and have history of injuries.

ND started five seniors this year who were all highly regarded out of high school and had a history of winning in the post season. Sure, CW was ranked slightly ahead of Jackie Young 3 years ago by one service, but Jackie Young was just picked #1 in the WNBA draft as a junior. UConn had comparable talent, but I think ND was the better team.

Thank you for the reminder on 6-4 Ashley Robinson and her rankings. I think there were times when 5-10 Barb Turner guarded her . . . successfully.

 

[Justavisitor]

So many flaws, so little time. For now, suffice it to say:

One of the surest signs of a feeble argument is one that reverts to a mere tallying of "recruitment rankings" as the beginning, middle and end of the story.

If the question is coaching, you must consider what a coach starts with and what they develop them into. The coach starting with the highest ranked players, typically has less of a hill to climb. Ivey / Muffet have done a great job with the climb and better than the rest. That's my opinion.

Why do you all ask, if you don't want varying opinions?

 

[Justavisitor]

Thank you for the reminder on 6-4 Ashley Robinson and her rankings. I think there were times when 5-10 Barb Turner guarded her . . . successfully.

Kind of like Ann Strother. Some top players never reach their projections. It happens!

 

[Plebe]

If the question is coaching, you must consider what a coach starts with and what they develop them into. The coach starting with the highest ranked players, typically has less of a hill to climb. Ivey / Muffet have done a great job with the climb and better than the rest. That's my opinion.

Why do you all ask, if you don't want varying opinions?

And again, assuming that the "ranking" is a reliable meausure of the size of the hill is a fallacy that an intelligent analysis would avoid.

 

[UConnCat]

Kind of like Ann Strother. Some top players never reach their projections. It happens!

Exactly. So now you agree with us. Our work here is done.

 

[JoePgh]

So, Justavisitor, you seem to think that a coach should be measured solely on what they do with the roster that has somehow been handed to them. As if the coach, in his/her capacity as a recruiter, lacks control over the composition of that roster.

But, of course, recruiting is the single largest component of a college coach's job. It's the only part of the job that Tennessee coaches have been able to do really well for the last 10 years or so, and that has made the LV's a ranked team for nearly that entire period, despite no contribution from the coaches in any other dimension. So when you are comparing coaches, you have to give their relative recruiting success a very high weight in the comparison.

On that basis, Geno has outperformed Muffitt even in the post-Skylar era (the last eight years or so). That is measured by 8 Final Four appearances and 4 NC's, compared to 1 NC and significantly fewer Final Fours for ND.

 

[Justavisitor]

So, Justavisitor, you seem to think that a coach should be measured solely on what they do with the roster that has somehow been handed to them. As if the coach, in his/her capacity as a recruiter, lacks control over the composition of that roster.

But, of course, recruiting is the single largest component of a college coach's job. It's the only part of the job that Tennessee coaches have been able to do really well for the last 10 years or so, and that has made the LV's a ranked team for nearly that entire period, despite no contribution from the coaches in any other dimension. So when you are comparing coaches, you have to give their relative recruiting success a very high weight in the comparison.

On that basis, Geno has outperformed Muffitt even in the post-Skylar era (the last eight years or so). That is measured by 8 Final Four appearances and 4 NC's, compared to 1 NC and significantly fewer Final Fours for ND.

Agree. I have always said he's possibly the best recruiter. It's between he and Pat. Both programs have been highly criticized by other programs with the rich just keep getting richer.

Even in the last 10 years, after Pat, getting the right recruits has been an awful struggle. Holly had 2 awful years of recruiting back to back and it reared it's ugly head in a very visible way the past 2 seasons. Players full of youthful exuberance, but knowing very little about how to win on the college level.

2014 - one player ranked top 10 and one ranked at 30 (#30 transferred)
2015 only 2 recruits with only 1 of them in the top 10. ACL injury and then transfer to the one in the top 10.
2016 no top 100 recruits

 

[bbsamjj]

Thank you for the reminder on 6-4 Ashley Robinson and her rankings. I think there were times when 5-10 Barb Turner guarded her . . . successfully.

This of course was not meant to trash Robinson, whom I believe was hampered by injuries a ton. She did end up playing 11 seasons in the WNBA as a back-up post, a far better pro career than 99% of players.

 

[UConnCat]

This of course was not meant to trash Robinson, whom I believed was hampered by injuries a ton. She did end up playing 11 seasons in the WNBA as a back-up post, a far better pro career than 99% of players.

Very true. I always liked her. Known as an outstanding teammate.

 

[DefenseBB]

I believe Kim needs to win 5 championships in a row to claim she is at the top of her profession over anyone else. Maybe throw in a World Championship and Olympic Gold too.

My take is “Top” means grouping, not “the best” so I think many are now coming around to the view Kim has shown skills to recruit, win, coach and win in big games. There are only a handful who have and continue to do that. I have been busy with work but I will look at Pat vs. Kim in Conference titles, win percentage, rankings vs. NCAAT success and a few others to see how they compare. What skews the data for us is Geno’s Unattainable Championships, consecutive Final Fours and his record in Championship games. We are jaded against any and all others. Take him out of the equation and in a few years maybe MM or Kim replace Pat as #2 all time. Geno helps Pat’s legacy (despite VolNation biases) maybe more so than it should. Pat’s early years were not nearly as competitive an environment as it is now. If Kim wins 5 titles in this new era of sports, would that not be as great as Pat’s 8? Maybe, maybe not but it is debatable.

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I totally disagree with your assessment of Dawn. She had one great class (before 2019) and it was rated No.2 behind a UCLA team that never lived up to it's billing. Dawn has had Final Fours based on the one year and a National Championship that had transfers to come in and blend with remains of that class. She had several Top 10-25 classes but her record actually matched or exceeded the talent she brought in. I think she has proved that she can coach Final Four teams with mix-matched combinations of players. I won't disagree with your rankings...just your assessment of Staley.

I don't think Staley has had anything like the consistent talent level of Stanford, Baylor or Notre Dame yet.

I think she jumped into that national scene without a great deal of elite talent.

The first Final Four team finished a bucket short of the Final with glaring offensive holes.

The National Title team is the only squad she had that was really loaded at every position.

It will be interesting to see what she does with this big incoming class.