Seton Hall post-game thread [merged thread]]

[Martin]

Caroline looks like a "deer in the headlights." In her few 1st half minutes, she dribbled the ball off her foot, committed a silly foul and shot up an airball.

There are seniors on the team who make the same mistakes. For example Ono at the beginning of the game. Double dribble at top of key. Geno keeps saying we have no depth. Geno, sir, this is your bench, your depth, coach them up.

 

[donalddoowop]

Don't confuse UCONN's situation with ND's or Olivia Miles with Caroline. ND. can afford to experiment because they are trying to climb out of mediocrity in the ACC. UCONN is trying to get over the hump and win a championship. Azzi is hurt and Caroline has an opportunity to step in and contribute at UCONN. There was an article posted here within the last few days where Caroline stated that she understood the opportunity and was preparing to meet the challenge. Caroline's performance in the game yesterday indicated she was not prepared for the challenge and that was against SH ND. UCONN plays ND tomorrow and you want Geno to give Caroline an opportunity to go out there and match up against Olivia Miles and Sonia Citron? I don't think that's going to happen.

I don't see anywhere in my post where I stated Geno should give Caroline an opportunity to match up against Mies or Citron, although neither you or I knows whether or not she can guard them effectively, or just as well as her teammates can. She has made mistakes and so have the starters so it will benefit the team in the long run to let her get out there play more minutes. It will help the bench to get stronger. Also, don't think for a minute that ND is not trying to win a NC.

 

[oldude]

There are seniors on the team who make the same mistakes. For example Ono at the beginning of the game. Double dribble at top of key. Geno keeps saying we have no depth. Geno, sir, this is your bench, your depth, coach them up.

Agree that Liv’s double dribble to start the game was a head-scratcher, but Liv did some good things as well. Caroline dribbling off her foot, committing dumb fouls and throwing up an Airball, all in just a few minutes, reminded me of some of the kids who played in my son’s YMCA league when he was 8 yrs old.

 

[amishboy]

On #3–Ono passes on shots she SHOULD be taking, but lacks the confidence to sink.
On #5-CW chances of being AA are rapidly slipping away

“Slipping away”? She was honorable mention (i.e., not considered among the top 10-15 players) last year. This year, on a team that’s “struggling” (okay, by our own excessive standards), I’d say her chances are more like slim & none, barring a major turnaround on her part (which seems unlikely, 3.5 years in).

 

[oldude]

Exactly. It’s why Geno constantly challenges Paige while praising Azzi. They are polar opposites who respond differently to coaching.

 

[eebmg]

Clark scored 4 in the first half. Took over the game in second half and scored at least 18 points.

Not efficiently. But with Czinano in foul trouble, she had to launch and launch.

 

[Cuango]

one of my complaints is the crying for fouls. I get a lot of other teams do this as well but there was nothing wrong in that arm to the face Paige received. Why Geno was losing it when in the replay you can watch it was an accident.

He’s doing it to preempt future fouls to his star player. Coaches do that all the time even when (sometimes especially when) it is clearly an accidental/unintentional foul. They are attempting to imprint on the referee the sure and certain expectation that they (the refs) can expect a serious tantrum if they get lax on calling fouls against the star player, especially those fouls that may be rough or potentially dangerous to that player. Of course they are also concerned about all the other players as well but they (coaches) are particularly sensitive about their star, especially when that star is fairly slight/small and thus might be the deliberate target of rough or intimidating play in an effort to physically affect her/his performance.

 

[jazz]

A win is a win, even if it is an ugly one. We are not a very good team without PB. I would say everybody is performing a bit lower or a lot lower than expected.

Liv was decent. I like her aggressiveness but she needs to finish better. AE played better but no sign of a sophomore leap from her as I expected...yet anyways... She still has the shuffles when she makes her move. You think she would have worked this out over the summer. CW is good, not great and probably not capable of taking over big games for us. The bench is dreadful. NM did some good things. I don't expect a big leap from her unless it is her outside shooting and I don't expect that to be great for her career. Her delivery is just too long. I'd be surprised if she hit 40% again...more like low to mid 30s. Starting to see a bit more out of DJ so that is good. EW shot poorly but did some other things reasonably well. I'm starting to worry about our ability to score points...

A lot of teams don't look great now but we certainly don't look very good. But....a win is a win and it is still early! And...we have PB...so we are capable of doing great thing with her on board. Plus we got a few really good players who I think will show themselves later this season....., CD and AG. Yes I do expect CD to adjust and be a factor off the bench.

 

[Cuango]

Negativity abounds after a 25 point win. It is very unusual for fan expectations to be steeped in reality and Uconn fans are no different.
Ono and Williams are what they are, good players but after three years many still expect them to be something they are not. Westbrook, in my mind is much the same, a good player. Edwards appears to be much the same player as last year, I see little improvement, certainly none in the energy department. All four have holes in their games and are prone to disappear at times.
Bueckers to me has improved significantly, significantly, especially on defense. On offense, she also seems to understand that she needs to look for her own shot and she is doing it much more than last year.
So the bench, and here is where I think Auriemma’s major weakness is showing. The idea of earning time in practice is fine, obviously, but what that means exactly is different to different people. If Ducharme has the skills he has said she has, and hustles and shows those skills in practice then she needs to get minutes to relax and get comfortable on the court. Not at crunch time, but what exactly is the purpose giving 30 to 30+ minutes to four starters in a 25 point blowout? Now one could make the argument that was because of the 11 day layoff but I don’t buy it, that coaching style has been Auriemma’s MO for a long time.
Nika Muhl has also shown, in limited opportunities, to be much the same player as last year. To those who want to judge players by their scoring, she should never get a minute at this level. But there is more to the game than scoring and that is where IMO, her value lies. First, her defense, her energy and aggressiveness; in the minutes she was in the game last night, Park-Lane did next to nothing, Seton Hall’s offense started a couple of feet further out or became bogged down trying to get the ball to her again after she gave it up. I would be remiss if I didn’t note that Bueckers also hounded her very, very effectively when she was on her. Which brings me to my second point regarding Muhl, and it directly concerns Bueckers; it is VERY difficult to have a true team offensive flow when your point guard is also your primary scorer, never mind the effort Bueckers expends on defense and rebounding. I usually don’t go there but late in the game Bueckers went to the ground near one of the benches in a scrum with a SHU player and I couldn’t help but think what a disaster it would be if she got hurt late still on the court in a blowout. I think moving Bueckers over to the 2 is a move that would best serve the team on several levels and have thought and posted that more than once.
Which brings me to Fudd. I have no idea how good she is or can be. I don’t care what she did in HS, in four games at this level she had one great stand still shooting game and did little else in the other three, while showing to be a major liability on defense. Now that very well may be because of injuries, or maybe the several injuries she evidently has had has slowed her down to the point she is just not quick enough to be effective at this level as anything other than a stand still shooter. For any who take offense, I will be the first to say that four games is absolutely nowhere near enough to make anything resembling a solid opinion, it is nothing more than a first impression.
For anyone else on the team, how can anyone judge them since they don’t play?
In short, my feeling is to develop depth and team chemistry you need to play depth and stop chasing “the perfect game”. Players need to sometimes play through mistakes, especially young players and I think it is very counter productive to let starters play through mistakes, many the same over and over, while yanking reserves after any and all.

I think Azzi is likely to turn out to be a very good player, perhaps even a great one. However, (realizing that injury may be largely or somewhat responsible for her performance level so far) it is abundantly clear that those (and there were many) posters who insisted that Azzi was better (or at least as good) as Paige were engaging in wishful thinking! Players like Paige are unbelievably rare and to blithely expect two “unicorns” in consecutive recruiting years is simply unrealistic. Again, this is not to say Azzi will not be a great player! She may end up on the wall along with other UConn greats. I certainly hope she does! I’m simply saying that imo, those posters just don’t truly understand how special and rare Paige Bueckers really is.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't see anywhere in my post where I stated Geno should give Caroline an opportunity to match up against Mies or Citron, although neither you or I knows whether or not she can guard them effectively, or just as well as her teammates can. She has made mistakes and so have the starters so it will benefit the team in the long run to let her get out there play more minutes. It will help the bench to get stronger. Also, don't think for a minute that ND is not trying to win a NC.

I don't care what ND does. UCONN plays ND tomorrow. Do you want Caroline to play or not?

 

[Cuango]

I would respectfully suggest that we have 1 clear leader on the team, but it would be much better if Paige wasn’t the “Lone Ranger,” and got more help from her teammates. Where the hell is Tonto?

Hate to say it but I think once we get into conference play, it might be good to sit Paige down for three games in a row. I know that’s not gonna happen but imo it would force the team to step up and play together w/o the “Paige will take over if we get behind” mentality. If they lost it would be a “slap in the face” reality check that might change their attitude in practice and if they won, it would give them confidence that they can win without her!

 

[Littlemin]

I think Azzi is likely to turn out to be a very good player, perhaps even a great one. However, (realizing that injury may be largely or somewhat responsible for her performance level so far) it is abundantly clear that those (and there were many) posters who insisted that Azzi was better (or at least as good) as Paige were engaging in wishful thinking! Players like Paige are unbelievably rare and to blithely expect two “unicorns” in consecutive recruiting years is simply unrealistic. Again, this is not to say Azzi will not be a great player! She may end up on the wall along with other UConn greats. I certainly hope she does! I’m simply saying that imo, those posters just don’t truly understand how special and rare Paige Bueckers really is.

As I stated, I have no idea of her ceiling at this level. I would be surprised though if the Uconn staff put her on the court compromised, saw her inability to keep up on defense and still left her on the court resulting in her sitting out. I could be wrong but since I don’t know the nature and cause of her current injury I am totally speculating. If it has been shared, it is on a thread I haven‘t visited.

 

[Cuango]

yea barring injuries idk who is stopping South Carolina. I mean they were who I thought would win it all, but to be this dominant. Obviously a lot of season to still be played, but what is scary is I don't think they played their best yet.

Neither have we!

 

[Stymie]

Hate to say it but I think once we get into conference play, it might be good to sit Paige down for three games in a row. I know that’s not gonna happen but imo it would force the team to step up and play together w/o the “Paige will take over if we get behind” mentality. If they lost it would be a “slap in the face” reality check that might change their attitude in practice and if they won, it would give them confidence that they can win without her!

Well that’s not gonna happen, but, as I previously proposed, how about obtaining a sizable lead by the half, sitting Paige, and telling the team it’s “their’s to win or lose”?
Or, next tim Paige gets dinged up , sit here down to recuperate?
Actually, I believe that is inevitable.

 

[hoophuskee]

There are seniors on the team who make the same mistakes. For example Ono at the beginning of the game. Double dribble at top of key. Geno keeps saying we have no depth. Geno, sir, this is your bench, your depth, coach them up.

He is "coaching them up." But you want to see one version that you prefer of "coaching up" yet the HOF coach with 13 consecutive Final Fours and 11 National Championships has a much different way of coaching them up than yours.

 

[jchusky]

He’s doing it to preempt future fouls to his star player. Coaches do that all the time even when (sometimes especially when) it is clearly an accidental/unintentional foul. They are attempting to imprint on the referee the sure and certain expectation that they (the refs) can expect a serious tantrum if they get lax on calling fouls against the star player, especially those fouls that may be rough or potentially dangerous to that player. Of course they are also concerned about all the other players as well but they (coaches) are particularly sensitive about their star, especially when that star is fairly slight/small and thus might be the deliberate target of rough or intimidating play in an effort to physically affect her/his performance.

that's great if the refs weren't looking back at the play and clearly saw that was accidental. Refs aren't going to be intimidated no matter how many rings Geno has. Refs are there to do the best job possible they can, if a foul is a foul they will call it.

 

[ABCDFE]

see I always saw that differently. I never thought of it being about Paige, I thought about the rest of the team. Paige is not a fast player imo, there are other players that have been at Uconn 3-4 seasons, another player would technically be a senior if she played her whole career at Uconn. Why are they getting outworked by a sophomore? I won't mention any names, but some of the players in their games you can see why they are inconsistent. Either they don't have the strength to keep up, or they don't have the work ethic.

I think it’s telling that Paige said recently that they need to be dawgs and killers on the court and nice off it. We have three seniors that should be leaders. Right now we don’t have dawgs where she trusts in. Not even Geno is giving that confidence to us fans . In a timeout he told Paige to shoot every time she’s open. Because we are not good enough right now to experiments every Possession is important. We have very good players but need one or two more consistent battle ready players that Paige can say hey let’s go and dominate. I believe Azzi can be that amazing shooter that she will defer to, but I mean right now we need a post or two to show out and unfortunately we don’t have any ready to step up. We need that inside game otherwise we will need Jordanesque games by Paige to even have a shot against great teams with inside post players and good guards like SC.

 

[Ardenque]

Negativity abounds after a 25 point win. It is very unusual for fan expectations to be steeped in reality and Uconn fans are no different.
Ono and Williams are what they are, good players but after three years many still expect them to be something they are not. Westbrook, in my mind is much the same, a good player. Edwards appears to be much the same player as last year, I see little improvement, certainly none in the energy department. All four have holes in their games and are prone to disappear at times.
Bueckers to me has improved significantly, significantly, especially on defense. On offense, she also seems to understand that she needs to look for her own shot and she is doing it much more than last year.
So the bench, and here is where I think Auriemma’s major weakness is showing. The idea of earning time in practice is fine, obviously, but what that means exactly is different to different people. If Ducharme has the skills he has said she has, and hustles and shows those skills in practice then she needs to get minutes to relax and get comfortable on the court. Not at crunch time, but what exactly is the purpose giving 30 to 30+ minutes to four starters in a 25 point blowout? Now one could make the argument that was because of the 11 day layoff but I don’t buy it, that coaching style has been Auriemma’s MO for a long time.
Nika Muhl has also shown, in limited opportunities, to be much the same player as last year. To those who want to judge players by their scoring, she should never get a minute at this level. But there is more to the game than scoring and that is where IMO, her value lies. First, her defense, her energy and aggressiveness; in the minutes she was in the game last night, Park-Lane did next to nothing, Seton Hall’s offense started a couple of feet further out or became bogged down trying to get the ball to her again after she gave it up. I would be remiss if I didn’t note that Bueckers also hounded her very, very effectively when she was on her. Which brings me to my second point regarding Muhl, and it directly concerns Bueckers; it is VERY difficult to have a true team offensive flow when your point guard is also your primary scorer, never mind the effort Bueckers expends on defense and rebounding. I usually don’t go there but late in the game Bueckers went to the ground near one of the benches in a scrum with a SHU player and I couldn’t help but think what a disaster it would be if she got hurt late still on the court in a blowout. I think moving Bueckers over to the 2 is a move that would best serve the team on several levels and have thought and posted that more than once.
Which brings me to Fudd. I have no idea how good she is or can be. I don’t care what she did in HS, in four games at this level she had one great stand still shooting game and did little else in the other three, while showing to be a major liability on defense. Now that very well may be because of injuries, or maybe the several injuries she evidently has had has slowed her down to the point she is just not quick enough to be effective at this level as anything other than a stand still shooter. For any who take offense, I will be the first to say that four games is absolutely nowhere near enough to make anything resembling a solid opinion, it is nothing more than a first impression.
For anyone else on the team, how can anyone judge them since they don’t play?
In short, my feeling is to develop depth and team chemistry you need to play depth and stop chasing “the perfect game”. Players need to sometimes play through mistakes, especially young players and I think it is very counter productive to let starters play through mistakes, many the same over and over, while yanking reserves after any and all.

I think this is a good overall analysis.
Regarding Fudd, I have had the same thought as you.
Her high school injuries were very serious. We’re they serious enough to permanently diminish her physical
abilities?

 

[CocoHusky]

I get the main point but it sounded to me like Stephanie said "Get Stewie the Ball". I can definitely see a half time interview with CW, Liv or Evina" saying " Need to get Paige the Ball"

That was not the main point. The reporter started the question talking about the importance of Senior leadership. My Main point is that this team is lacking it. The question posed to Dolson was: "What are you going to tell them ( your teammates at half time)." Imagine that a senior leader addressing the team in a tough situation. Third and most important point: The message was not let's get the ball to Stewie. What Dolson said was that she plan to tell Stewie that she needs to step up and make some shot. That is a leader challenging the teams best player to step up. Do you really envision anyone on this team doing that to Paige?

 

[TeamFirst!]

I don't care what ND does. UCONN plays ND tomorrow. Do you want Caroline to play or not?

I think Caroline should get at least 20 minutes of PT. When Citron and Azzi were playing USA basketball last year I thought Citron was the better prospect but Azzi had her injury back then and she is still playing almost exactly like she played on USA basketball late last year. Azzi is not the same player she was when she was 15. She needs to get healthy. And Caroline may not be at Citron's level right now but she is in the ballpark. She needs PT to improve. What is the point of putting players on the court who do not have the potential to be major contributors in March? We are going to need Caroline. She's a little bigger than Citron and I'm fine with the matchup. Citron probably wins that matchup but frankly the only player we have at her ability is Paige and maybe CW. We need to put players on the floor who can MAYBE win a championship. The sooner the better. More PT for Gorka also.

 

[Oracle9]

Geno said it all after the game. “Paige can take over a game but it’s not enough”. I don’t know what has happened to this team. It’s not rust. The talent discrepancy in this game was huge. But those turnovers against this team makes you wonder where their minds are at. Paige can win the BE by herself. But it ends there. We know they are better than this because we have seen the same players play like a a well oiled machine. It’s not physical. Do they have a team shrink?

Agreed.I've been saying that over and over. From my experience it seems all mental. They aren't handling the expectations well, which comes especially playing at UConn. I know most of the team played last year but consider how they played- in a vacuum so to speak, but freely.The focus on Paige took the spotlight off, plus no fans, limited press interaction. So it set up to not be prepared for the heat of the spotlight.

Another part of the issue I believe was coming in as freshmen and having to start not usually how it's done at UConn (with some exceptions), no bench when they arrived so no time to acclimate learn from upperclassmen. When Maya and DT came in they had the benefit of a working team and experienced PG to learn from. We have 4 Upperclassmen- who really haven't had much impact (as yet galvanizing this team) Paige is the only one I see trying to lead the Squad be vocal. Whatever they're doing in practice its not being effectively translated on the court. To have to work so hard to fire up the competitive juices in what the players claim to be a pivotal season is just....idk.

 

[BBallF]

Stop making excuses and trying to change how Geno runs the the team. Caroline was put into the game yesterday ironically because Christyn Williams was not playing well at 7:07. That was less than 3 minutes into the game and UCONN was leading 7 to 6. Caroline was sub out @ 4:31. That's 2:36 of game time in which Caroline committed two fouls, missed a 3Pt shot and committed a turnover which enabled SH to take a 13 to 7 lead. That's correct UCONN did not score with Caroline on the floor during this stretch. What in Haties are you asking Geno to do, leave her in the game to dig a bigger hole? Since when is putting a player into the game less than 3 minutes in considered a daily kick in the pants?

It's actually Hades and you are 100% correct. I was at the game. The look on her face was " I don't want to be here". She looks at the bench after every mistake. Waiting for the other shoe to drop. It did. He had to take her out.

 

[BBallF]

The Seton Hall game put the SC game in context, elevated my appreciation of that game and my feeling about the really good potential of UConn going forward.

UConn is right now not a very good team. Those first games were not just aberrations or rust, they were representative of where the team is. Yet for 30-35 minutes that disorganized team played SC at a high level and showed toughness and strength, despite the disarray. I suspect the ND game will not be pretty but will show that despite being a work-in-progress there is a core toughness here that will make this team something special once the natural skills begin to evidence. Unlike SC, I expect them to finish that game, pretty or not. ONO, CW, AE, Evina are not playing consistently well, no news there, but they are all playing tougher and stronger than last year. Nika, always tough, is lost (as she was early last year) but will be found. The new players are not playing weak or getting pushed around, not at all; this is very surprising to me; they are simply bewildered; that is a solvable problem.

It may be that Geno simply needs a little more time than usual to get his team cohesive.

I agree. They are certainly not an NC challenging team right now and are not a typical UCONN team at this point considering the seniors on the team. There is something amiss. I think the top weave offense is not working. Once the ball goes into a big at the top of the key, the offense becomes a 2 man movement event at best. I would love to see the 1-4 offense return and fast.

AE seems like she actually took a step back and so does Nika. Evina is too non-assertive on offense, Caroline is not ready, and Dorka is not aggressive enough. Honestly, I was pretty disappointed last night at the game and so were all the Husky fans sitting around me. I hope it was just the lay off after the SC game but there clearly was not a bounce back kick their ass fire in their eyes.

 

[BBallF]

I attended the game v. SHU and it provided a perspective you probably can't obtain on TV. When Caroline, Nika etc were in the game, every whistle they looked to the bench to see if they were coming out. They can't play their game if the sole goal is to remain in the game. There is a lack of confidence outside of the starting 5. Most players come off the bench and offensively look for Paige or to frankly just get rid of the ball. If you aren't threatening with the ball, that doesn't help Paige or CW get open and/or score. It actually drains them of energy instead. I hope the bench becomes a threat for ND.