Seth Greenberg on UConn & the Big East | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Seth Greenberg on UConn & the Big East

CL82 said:
The bulk of that is typical accounting: revenue = expenses.

This is the number you want to pick out school contributions:
$26,990,210. This number isn't sustainable in the long run, in my view.

Keep in mind that UConn charges several none D1 costs such as club sports, and student recreation costs in this number. They appear in the $2.8M facilities overhead costs and the $27,839,559 in other expenses.

Note that UConn is maintaining a P5 level program without P5 level TV money. That's how many of the P5 look a bit rosier than us.
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True, UConn has a P5 budget
 
FriarJ said:
They have 79 mil in expenses and must subsidize it to the tune of 35 million to meet those expenses
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Through voluntary student fees

So, you know, it's totally cool
 
FriarJ said:
They have 79 mil in expenses and must subsidize it to the tune of 35 million to meet those expenses
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Take a look at any of the others. Once you are out of the top 10, that vast majority are showing Revenue and Expense to be about equal. That isn't surprising nor particularly noteworthy.

Do you have PC's numbers? Just curious.
 
Guapo said:
Through voluntary student fees

So, you know, it's totally cool
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I guess if you say (this site badly needs a sarcasm font) but I don't believe for one second that a 40% shortfall is made up only by the student fees.
 
CL82 said:
Take a look at any of the others. Once you are out of the top 10, that vast majority are showing Revenue and Expense to be about equal. That isn't surprising nor particularly noteworthy.

Do you have PC's numbers? Just curious.
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Yes, everybody spends what they make, I have not seen PC's in a while but they are over 30 mil with 30 mil coming in, without any subsidy from student fees. I get what you are saying but having to have 40% of your entire athletic budget come from some other monies outside of normal revenue stream is an unsustainable model.

Here is a report for 2016 done for an NCAA Survey on equity in sports.
http://www.providence.edu/about/fast-facts/Documents/ncaa-eada-report.pdf
 
FriarJ said:
I guess if you say (this site badly needs a sarcasm font) but I don't believe for one second that a 40% shortfall is made up only by the student fees.
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It obviously isn't, if you look at the numbers.
 
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FriarJ said:
I guess if you say (this site badly needs a sarcasm font) but I don't believe for one second that a 40% shortfall is made up only by the student fees.
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Well, in total the student fees account for about 85 million so...
 
FriarJ said:
You an 82 are giving me different answers.
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Excuse me, I had my math wrong;

It's about 55 mil in total (not just going towards the AD, just in general)
 
FriarJ said:
Yes, everybody spends what they make, I have not seen PC's in a while but they are over 30 mil with 30 mil coming in, without any subsidy from student fees. I get what you are saying but having to have 40% of your entire athletic budget come from some other monies outside of normal revenue stream is an unsustainable model.
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I have said that UConn's contribution rate is, in my view, unsustainable. I also do not believe it is a $35M gift from the university as some student recreation expenses (rec. center operation budget is in there, I believe) have always been paid for from the AD budget. Regardless, without any meaningful TV money, UConn athletics generates about $44M in revenue.

Regarding PCs situation, well feel free to post financials. I'd be surprised if they have $30M in outside revenue. Very surprised, in fact. And it would not surprise me in the least if some of the $14M in student services PC pays each year found it's way into the AD.

Finally, even with the student fees, UConn is less expensive that PC for a more highly valued degree.
 
CL82 said:
I have said that UConn's contribution rate is, in my view, unsustainable. I also do not believe it is a $35M gift from the university as some student recreation expenses (rec. center operation budget is in there, I believe) have always been paid for from the AD budget. Regardless, without any meaningful TV money, UConn athletics generates about $44M in revenue.

Regarding PCs situation, well feel free to post financials. I'd be surprised if they have $30M in outside revenue. Very surprised, in fact. And it would not surprise me in the least if some of the $14M in student services PC pays each year found it's way into the AD.
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See link above in edited post. It may not have the detail you are looking for but scroll to the last couple pages.
 
FriarJ said:
See link above in edited post. It may not have the detail you are looking for but scroll to the last couple pages.
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Yep, we're posting past one another. I just saw it.

First this is a survey, not financials, so it isn't clear how these numbers were calculated.

Second, hockey does well for you guys. Soccer is pretty good too.

Third, man you pay your women's head coaches $83k on average? That's a tough admission on sport equity survey.

Finally, if you read the description of the revenue numbers, it expressly includes institutional support. Without a breakout, it is impossible to tell how much is or isn't there.
 
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CL82 said:
Yep, we're posting past one another. I just saw it.

First this is a survey, not financials, so it isn't clear how these numbers were calculated.

Second, hockey does well for you guys. Soccer is pretty good too.

Third, man you pay your women's head coaches $83k on average? That's a tough admission on sport equity survey.

Finally, if you read the description of the revenue numbers, it expressly includes institutional support. Without a breakout, it is impossible to tell how much is or isn't there.
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There is a website Called pro publica that has non profits 990 forms. You can get further details there or I will try and link it later
 
FriarJ said:
There is a website Called pro publica that has non profits 990 forms. You can get further details there or I will try and link it later
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Thanks. If you link it I don't mind going through it.
 
CL82 said:
2016 Audit data doesn't break out AD revenue.
The 990 (2014) data lists athletic revenue $6.5M, was the remaining $23.5M school support?

(See Part VIII 2(e).)
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I have no idea but I know PC brings in close to that from ticket revenue alone for men’s basketball and hockey. So that number is inaccurate. They have 8,000 season ticket holders in men’s basketball, compared to 2,000 when Cooley started. That 8,000 includes 1,500 student season ticket holders or roughly 40% of the student body.
 
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CL82 said:
2016 Audit data doesn't break out AD revenue.
The 990 (2014) data lists athletic revenue $6.5M, was the remaining $23.5M school support?

(See Part VIII 2(e).)
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Wow

It's almost like PC is not fundamentally pure and good and UConn is not fundamentally corrupt and evil

Whowouldathunkit?
 
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3rdbass said:
Hey you are barking up the wrong tree. It is stairmasters who thinks we can't get a good coach due to the economic state of CT and Ollie's big contract. I think DB will make the move at the end of the year and we will be fine. I mean maybe not the UCONN of old but at least close to a Gonzaga level of challenging top teams year in and year out.
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Has anyone from the BY legal staff figured out what the payout would be on the contract before signing someone new?
 
Guapo said:
Wow

It's almost like PC is not fundamentally pure and good and UConn is not fundamentally corrupt and evil

Whowouldathunkit?
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What the heck are you talking about?
 
FriarJ said:
What the heck are you talking about?
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Oh, I'm just giving you a hard a time.

It seems your general line of argument across all Boneyard threads is "everything PC does is good and righteous and everything UConn does is bad."
 
Guapo said:
Oh, I'm just giving you a hard a time.

It seems your general line of argument across all Boneyard threads is "everything PC does is good and righteous and everything UConn does is bad."
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I don't think you even considered the possibility that PC might be subsidizing their athletic department
 
Guapo said:
Oh, I'm just giving you a hard a time.

It seems your general line of argument across all Boneyard threads is "everything PC does is good and righteous and everything UConn does is bad."
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Well of course. Seriously I have no idea what you are referring to but whatever.
 
Guapo said:
I don't think you even considered the possibility that PC might be subsidizing their athletic department
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You must have missed my post about where PC has that revenue in ticket sales alone. Add in the $5 mil from fox and the ncaa credits and it’s way over 6 mil
 
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The suggestion that joining the NBE would generate a windfall for UConn is a complete fallacy. People are conflating issues, judging revenue solely on basketball specific TV deals, and simply using bad data.

In year ending June 2015 the gross revenue of the NBE was $42.6M, Their media deal paid out $31.6M (or $3.16M per school). Of course. . . there are expenses. The net payout for teams in the conference averaged less than $3M, which ranged from Creighton's payout of $2.2M to top earner Villanova's $3.7M. For year ending June 2016 the NBE revenue climbed to $45.8M. Assuming expenses stay relatively consistent, you are talking about an extra $200K increase per school at best. Fox back-loaded this deal.

The AAC's revenue for year ending June 2016 was $79.3M, up $9M from the year prior, but still pretty lame. Of that, UConn pocketed $10.5M. Before you think it's all about NCAA Units/Exit Fees, Houston pocketed $7.1M. Even Tulsa pocketed $4.7M. Post Season Tournaments totaled $48M. Much of this was derived through the CFP, which will continue to increase (helping offset other decreases). The recent success of AAC football will add to the pot. Having said that, the AAC is still at a distinct disadvantage with regard to the P5. That's a fact.

Would UConn be better off collecting $3.7M, funding a FCS football team and outfitting 20+ olympic sports, like Villanova? I doubt it, at least financially. The $3.7 would not begin to cover the cost of doing so. We would likely have to scrap football altogether. Currently, it's pretty much a wash with regard to conference revenue, with our $7M edge (along with FBS attached revenue) going to subsidize a modest FBS effort. The difference is that AAC/P5 inclusion has much, much greater upside potential on many different levels, especially for a flagship university. Unfortunately, fan interest and some sports, including basketball, will take a hit in the short term, but it's still the right course of action. The upcoming TV deal will help determine whether that remains the case.
 
Screw it; we should probably just endure the next seven years of pain in the AAC-- which I continue to posit is weaker than the NBE and probably will still be seven years from now--and wait to see what happens in the Big 12. However, we should schedule Villanova and Georgetown every year for a while going forward. I think Edsall can get us back to being a borderline bowl team, but he needs to do so fast. We need to schedule 4 P5 home and home series for our OOC ever year from now on. We need a new coach in basketball and we need to schedule even better in the OOC. Probably need to add VCU and Dayton to the league for basketball only as well.
 
John said:
It's easier to be relevant in the NBE because all the BIG DOGS left.
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lol except Us and cuse and Lousiville are all floundering out of the league. We are puppies now smh
 
itgoeslike said:
The suggestion that joining the NBE would generate a windfall for UConn is a complete fallacy. People are conflating issues, judging revenue solely on basketball specific TV deals, and simply using bad data.

In year ending June 2015 the gross revenue of the NBE was $42.6M, Their media deal paid out $31.6M (or $3.16M per school). Of course. . . there are expenses. The net payout for teams in the conference averaged less than $3M, which ranged from Creighton's payout of $2.2M to top earner Villanova's $3.7M. For year ending June 2016 the NBE revenue climbed to $45.8M. Assuming expenses stay relatively consistent, you are talking about an extra $200K increase per school at best. Fox back-loaded this deal.

The AAC's revenue for year ending June 2016 was $79.3M, up $9M from the year prior, but still pretty lame. Of that, UConn pocketed $10.5M. Before you think it's all about NCAA Units/Exit Fees, Houston pocketed $7.1M. Even Tulsa pocketed $4.7M. Post Season Tournaments totaled $48M. Much of this was derived through the CFP, which will continue to increase (helping offset other decreases). The recent success of AAC football will add to the pot. Having said that, the AAC is still at a distinct disadvantage with regard to the P5. That's a fact.

Would UConn be better off collecting $3.7M, funding a FCS football team and outfitting 20+ olympic sports, like Villanova? I doubt it, at least financially. The $3.7 would not begin to cover the cost of doing so. We would likely have to scrap football altogether. Currently, it's pretty much a wash with regard to conference revenue, with our $7M edge (along with FBS attached revenue) going to subsidize a modest FBS effort. The difference is that AAC/P5 inclusion has much, much greater upside potential on many different levels, especially for a flagship university. Unfortunately, fan interest and some sports, including basketball, will take a hit in the short term, but it's still the right course of action. The upcoming TV deal will help determine whether that remains the case.
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Don't forget about bowl payouts either... bowl payouts are shared between all conference members regardless of who actually makes a bowl.
 
I've said this multiple times, but it really boggles my mind how UConn is doubling and tripling down on non-football/men's basketball sports in the AD.

Every single available athletic penny should be going towards making the football and basketball team strong again.

With a $30M subsidy I don't simply understand where the money is coming from to pour and more pour money into non-revenue sports without one eye looking towards the future.

Hate to say it, but if we're not in a league in 10 years, spending millions to upgrade baseball, hockey, softball, soccer etc. is going to look pretty dumb.
 
It's been mentioned a bunch when that subsidy number gets published, that number includes all intramural and scholarship money. Very few schools add those numbers to their athletic budgets, a more accurate number is $15-18 mil per year.
 
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