Seth Greenberg on UConn & the Big East

[UConnNick]

Disagree with Greenberg. I understand some of the sentiment but turning back now would be disasterous! UMASS would change places in a heartbeat with us. Their football team is nomadic, scrambling to fill their schedule. Certainly no way to build anything. UMASS plays in the A-10, a decent Mid-Major bball conference. Proponents of the back to the Big East camp fail to realize that this would be moving backwards for UCONN and is essentially giving up on becoming a Major athletic program in the big sports, Football and Basketball.

Current AAC members Memphis and Temple were horrible in football. Temple was kicked out of the Big East because of their lousy program. Both teams have risen to become conference champions. Both schools also have pretty good basketball pedigrees.

Edsall was brought back to turn the football program around. Let's give him the time to do his thing. If KO can't bring UCONN back to respectability then a change must be made. Certainly there are quality coaches out there who would love to coach UCONN at 3,000,000 per regardless of conference!

Cincinnati, Temple, Wichita, Memphis, Houston, SMU, and UCONN are 7 solid AAC programs. Not saying the rivalries are anywhere as sexy as the old Big East days but they are far from the dumpster fire of a league that some describe it as. UCONN has yet to win the conference title in this dumpster! UCF, USF and ECU are getting better as well.
The next TV contract negotiations will be critical to the AAC's future.

The girls always win regardless of conference. This week they had a record crowd of 15,000+, proving it can be done.Recruiting and having a strong OOC schedule is key.

As bad as things are right now, I don't believe going back to the Big East and either going Independent or dropping down to the FCS level in football is the right thing to do.

Stay thirsty my friends!

Well stated, Carl. Also, in another thread on the football board, UConnDan97 pointed out that the difference between our current AAC revenue and a Big East share is about a million a year, which we made up and then some by getting 1.2 for playing the BS College game at Fenway Park. There's no reason we can't do an away only payday game just about every season. He also pointed out that our TV package is far superior to what the NBE currently has. The ratings on FOX for the Big East games have sucked. They routinely get beaten out by stuff like women's BB games on other channels in the same time slots. Nobody is watching Big East basketball. It's a bunch of small schools with small alumni numbers that do not generate any national following. We at least still get a fair number of games on the ESPN channels, combined with CBSSN. We do need our Tier 3 rights so we can get what we can from the SNY deal.

 

[UConnNick]

The P5 strategy has failed. I don't see any realistic path to P5 membership. All we are doing now is damaging our brand and blowing millions of dollars.

UConn is in a southern mid-major conference. We are 350 miles from our nearest conference opponent, and most of the league is over 1,000 miles away. We do not fit in this league. Southern recruits aren't going to come north just so they can play Southern opponents in a mid-major league, and northern recruits have lots of options to play close to home in geographically relevant conferences.

The Big East is kicking our butt in recruiting. It is just ignorant to argue otherwise. We are one more mediocre coach from being Houston post-Guy Lewis, a former powerhouse that got left behind by conference realignment once the legendary coach retired. At that point, even the AAC will not want us.

Houston getting left behind in conference realignment had zero to do with Guy Lewis' retirement. He retired in 1987. The SWC didn't break up until 1995, and the reason Houston didn't get included in the Big 12 deal was strictly political. It had nothing to do with basketball. What it did have to do with was UT not liking it when they lost fairly often to Houston in football. Houston won the SWC championship in its first season in the league in 1976. During the years both teams were members of the SWC, Texas only has about a .500 record vs. Houston.

 

[John]

Well stated, Carl. Also, in another thread on the football board, UConnDan97 pointed out that the difference between our current AAC revenue and a Big East share is about a million a year, which we made up and then some by getting 1.2 for playing the BS College game at Fenway Park. There's no reason we can't do an away only payday game just about every season. He also pointed out that our TV package is far superior to what the NBE currently has. The ratings on FOX for the Big East games have sucked. They routinely get beaten out by stuff like women's BB games on other channels in the same time slots. Nobody is watching Big East basketball. It's a bunch of small schools with small alumni numbers that do not generate any national following. We at least still get a fair number of games on the ESPN channels, combined with CBSSN. We do need our Tier 3 rights so we can get what we can from the SNY deal.

Nailed it.

I loved the Big East and still miss it. This new "Big East" is not THE BIG EAST, and I don't understand why people are pining for it. They cite things like RPI, whoop-dee-doo, those stats are constantly in flux. The NBE is the poorest of poor fits for us - the schools don't match our profile, and the only reason a lot of these schools are doing good (finally) is because the BIG DOGS left the conference. Wanting to scrap football and move to a small-time conference for nostalgia's sake is the smallest of small thinking. By any metric UConn is a P5 athletic department, much more than a boatload of schools that are currently in the P5 cabal. If the people that want to move us to the NBE are successful, we will be forever stuck on the Island of Misfit Toys.

 

[UConnNick]

Nailed it.

I loved the Big East and still miss it. This new "Big East" is not THE BIG EAST, and I don't understand why people are pining for it. They cite things like RPI, whoop-dee-doo, those stats are constantly in flux. The NBE is the poorest of poor fits for us - the schools don't match our profile, and the only reason a lot of these schools are doing good (finally) is because the BIG DOGS left the conference. Wanting to scrap football and move to a small-time conference for nostalgia's sake is the smallest of small thinking. By any metric UConn is a P5 athletic department, much more than a boatload of schools that are currently in the P5 cabal. If the people that want to move us to the NBE are successful, we will be forever stuck on the Island of Misfit Toys.

The simple truth is that killing football to move back to the NBE is essentially the same thing as going back to the Yankee Conference. The state isn't likely to sign on for turning P&W Stadium into a botanical garden that cost 90 million $$$ to build. Oh, and BTW, when the big boys split from the NCAA to form their own association, we get left behind with the Quinnipiacs, Sacred Hearts and CCSU's of collegiate sports. Going to the NBE is the same thing as waving a white flag of surrender. It would be a death sentence for major college athletics in the State of Connecticut.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

These comparisons between the NBE and the Yankee conference are laughable.

Did the Yankee conference ever put 6+ teams into the dance, nevermind every single year?
Did the Yankee conference have future HOF coaching?
Did the Yankee conference ever produce a national champion or even teams that expected to win a national title?
Did the Yankee conference ever get respect nationally?

Its a ridiculous comparrison to make and seems like people refusing to admit that we are currently in an inferior conference than the NBE.

We don't fit into the culture of this conference, and its why we will never succeed here. KO absolutely deserves the lions share of the blame for our current state of basketball, but if we bring in a new coach and stay in this conference we may only get marginally better than we are now.

 

[Guapo]

The simple truth is that killing football to move back to the NBE is essentially the same thing as going back to the Yankee Conference. The state isn't likely to sign on for turning P&W Stadium into a botanical garden that cost 90 million $$$ to build. Oh, and BTW, when the big boys split from the NCAA to form their own association, we get left behind with the Quinnipiacs, Sacred Hearts and CCSU's of collegiate sports. Going to the NBE is the same thing as waving a white flag of surrender. It would be a death sentence for major college athletics in the State of Connecticut.

The likelihood of the P5 fully breaking off to form their own association with their own post seasons for all sports is extreamly small.

There are a multitude of legal and contractual issues, as well as political issues, that would stop that dead in its tracks.

We should definitely not be making decisions about the future of the athletic department under the assumption that a separation is a forgone conclusion.

 

[Allbite]

The likelihood of the P5 fully breaking off to form their own association with their own post seasons for all sports is extreamly small.

There are a multitude of legal and contractual issues, as well as political issues, that would stop that dead in its tracks.

We should definitely not be making decisions about the future of the athletic department under the assumption that a separation is a forgone conclusion.

The best thing UConn can do is make no major moves of its own volition. With the post season ban and the destruction of the Big East in football, we are the poster children for the results of the cesspool called the NCAA. Where UConn is is their fault, and the last thing UConn should do is give that up by buying into their superficial game. Keep it real on the field and court. The rest of them can take their corrupt politics and money and shove it up their collective fudgeholes.

 

[Allbite]

I use to say no way... but football has shown inability to improve and we are not getting into any conference soon. I am now 51% sure we need to go to leave the AAC regardless of how much better it is getting. Geography has killed the program. No doubt about it.

Give Edsall a chance - he deserves a few years.

 

[The Funster]

I just want to say that I have complete trust that ESPN will look out for best interests.

ehhhhh...

 

[John]

These comparisons between the NBE and the Yankee conference are laughable.

Did the Yankee conference ever put 6+ teams into the dance, nevermind every single year?
Did the Yankee conference have future HOF coaching?
Did the Yankee conference ever produce a national champion or even teams that expected to win a national title?
Did the Yankee conference ever get respect nationally?

Its a ridiculous comparrison to make and seems like people refusing to admit that we are currently in an inferior conference than the NBE.

We don't fit into the culture of this conference, and its why we will never succeed here. KO absolutely deserves the lions share of the blame for our current state of basketball, but if we bring in a new coach and stay in this conference we may only get marginally better than we are now.

How many times has UConn won this conference? the conference tournament? Maybe the blame for whatever perceived weakness of AAC basketball rests, in large part, on UConn's shoulders? UConn "fitting" or "not fitting" is a cheap excuse. UConn doesn't "fit" in the NBE either, the school profile is a complete mismatch. You NBE folks seem perfectly at ease with small-time. I for one aim a lot higher for UConn.

 

[CL82]

The likelihood of the P5 fully breaking off to form their own association with their own post seasons for all sports the Big East being destroyed and the name sold to a group of tiny private colleges is extremely small.

There are a multitude of legal and contractual issues, as well as political issues, that would stop that dead in its tracks.

We should definitely not be making decisions about the future of the athletic department under the assumption that a separation is a forgone conclusion.

...and yet it happened.

Joining the Big East isn't the solution, it's a concession that we aren't a part of major college athletics.

 

[John]

...and yet it happened.

Joining the Big East isn't the solution, it's a concession that we aren't a part of major college athletics.

Exactly. Joining the NBE is the same as UConn throwing up hands in surrender and admitting that we're small time.

 

[CL82]

Exactly. Joining the NBE is the same as UConn throwing up hands in surrender and admitting that we're small time.

It may well end up being our future John. I'm less optimistic than you are. But we should fight as hard as we can and as long as we can to avoid it. If we don't make make it when the current TV P5 contracts expire though, it's over.

 

[Guapo]

...and yet it happened.

Joining the Big East isn't the solution, it's a concession that we aren't a part of major college athletics.

I'm not fully in the camp of joining the Big East, I guess I'm pretty agnostic at this point.

But I'm just saying, the difference between the Big East falling apart and what it would take for the P5 to split off and form their own association is the difference between flying to LA and landing a man on Neptune.

 

[UConnNick]

The likelihood of the P5 fully breaking off to form their own association with their own post seasons for all sports is extreamly small.

There are a multitude of legal and contractual issues, as well as political issues, that would stop that dead in its tracks.

We should definitely not be making decisions about the future of the athletic department under the assumption that a separation is a forgone conclusion.

They're already making their own rules, like paying increased stipends to players, which only the big boys can afford to do. They're separating themselves little by little, in subtle ways. Why do you think UNC received absolutely no punishment at all for the fake classes? It's because the NCAA is scared to death that a split is coming and they'll lose the biggest chunk by far of their money making machine. That's why the big powers can get away with murder. To keep them from leaving, the NCAA will indulge in all the convoluted logic it possibly can to avoid punishing any of the blue chippers.

 

[Guapo]

They're already making their own rules, like paying increased stipends to players, which only the big boys can afford to do. They're separating themselves little by little, in subtle ways. Why do you think UNC received absolutely no punishment at all for the fake classes? It's because the NCAA is scared to death that a split is coming and they'll lose the biggest chunk by far of their money making machine. That's why the big powers can get away with murder. To keep them from leaving, the NCAA will indulge in all the convoluted logic it possibly can to avoid punishing any of the blue chippers.

You're approaching this wrong. It's not because the NCAA is "scared" of the P5, blue blood schools. It's because those schools control the NCAA.

If the P5 were to break off, it would need to renegotiate hundreds of contracts with TV, venues, vendors and bowls. It would have to negotiate many new contracts with all the above.

Some of those people likely will not want to renegotiate so they'll have to fend off a multitude of lawsuits. They will also promptly be hit with lawsuits from each G5 conference and the NCAA, as well as some others arguing various anti-trust clauses, image and name lisecensing, IP things like copyrights, trademarks etc. The list goes on.

Do you understand the millions upon millions upon millions of legal fees this would add up to?

They'll also face strong political pressure from both local and national politicians.

They'll have to form a new company, which will require finding, hiring and paying hundreds, if not thousands, of employees.

So you're talking about them doing something that will be prohibitively expensive, a logistical nightmare and deeply unpopular.

All for what, exactly?

They're already making money hands over fist and have autonomy.

 

[August_West]

They're already making money hands over fist and have autonomy.

And dont need us to do that.

Which is why we are never going anywhere.

 

[UConnNick]

You're approaching this wrong. It's not because the NCAA is "scared" of the P5, blue blood schools. It's because those schools control the NCAA.

If the P5 were to break off, it would need to renegotiate hundreds of contracts with TV, venues, vendors and bowls. It would have to negotiate many new contracts with all the above.

Some of those people likely will not want to renegotiate so they'll have to fend off a multitude of lawsuits. They will also promptly be hit with lawsuits from each G5 conference and the NCAA, as well as some others arguing various anti-trust clauses, image and name lisecensing, IP things like copyrights, trademarks etc. The list goes on.

Do you understand the millions upon millions upon millions of legal fees this would add up to?

They'll also face strong political pressure from both local and national politicians.

They'll have to form a new company, which will require finding, hiring and paying hundreds, if not thousands, of employees.

So you're talking about them doing something that will be prohibitively expensive, a logistical nightmare and deeply unpopular.

All for what, exactly?

They're already making money hands over fist and have autonomy.

Due to the media rights fees heading for significant change and likely decreasing across the board, the pie is going to suddenly get somewhat smaller, and when it does, why would the P5's want to continue to share the money they generate with any of the lesser conference members? They'd either have to change the revenue structure within the NCAA internally, set up a tournament or playoffs for the non-P5 members, or split and go their own way. No matter what course is taken there will likely be litigation anyway, so that's really not going to stop them if they feel their best course economically going forward is to be self-regulated and autonomous, so they don't have to share any pieces of a decreasing sized pie with the lesser conference members. They've already done it before when they formed the CFA and then the BCS. It's just another step in a logical progression.

 

[August_West]

You found a friend!!!

Its a festivus miracle!

 

[Guapo]

Due to the media rights fees heading for significant change and likely decreasing across the board, the pie is going to suddenly get somewhat smaller, and when it does, why would the P5's want to continue to share the money they generate with any of the lesser conference members? They'd either have to change the revenue structure within the NCAA internally, set up a tournament or playoffs for the non-P5 members, or split and go their own way. No matter what course is taken there will likely be litigation anyway, so that's really not going to stop them if they feel their best course economically going forward is to be self-regulated and autonomous, so they don't have to share any pieces of a decreasing sized pie with the lesser conference members. They've already done it before when they formed the CFA and then the BCS. It's just another step in a logical progression.

I think this is by far the most likely outcome.

I was under the impression that the only real revenue generator the NCAA has is the Tournament.

For someone who knows more about this than me, is this true?

 

[CL82]

I'm not fully in the camp of joining the Big East, I guess I'm pretty agnostic at this point.

But I'm just saying, the difference between the Big East falling apart and what it would take for the P5 to split off and form their own association is the difference between flying to LA and landing a man on Neptune.

Disagree. The Big East was the best basketball conference ever. In its heyday it was a very powerful entity. It was just the wrong model.

FWIW, the Big East's death isn't a different show than a P5 breakoff; it was the opening act.

 

[Guapo]

Disagree. The Big East was the best basketball conference ever. In its heyday it was a very powerful entity. It was just the wrong model.

FWIW, the Big East's death isn't a different show than a P5 breakoff; it was the opening act.

Please see my post about from about a half hour ago on the reasons why the P5 fully breaking off won't happen.