September 2019 WNBA Discussions, scores, game info, pictures

[nickp91]

Derek Fisher was a terrible coach in the NBA and now the WNBA

 

[Dillon77]

Good morning.
When the L.A. Sparks were reduced to 7 or 8 players during the regular season, Coach Fisher was mixing and matching matchups on an almost quarterly basis and got contributions from everyone, including rookies Brown and Mabrey. Vibes felt good. Then everyone came back and it almost seemed like the returning players expected things to go back to "normal," while the slightly revised approaches went out the door. It worked, to some degree, closing out the season and against a dinged-up Seattle team, but not against the class teams of the league.

I'll be very interested to see in what direction Sparks management goes here. Parker and the O sisters appear to be in L.A., come whatever and the backcourt is wildly up and down (does one need both Williams and Gray?).
Shame about the frontcourt, because you've got some serious young talent at the post, sitting on the bench.

 

[willtalk]

I was a major critic of Fisher this season. But if you compare when the team played better and when they did not the common denominator from last season to this was when Parker returned. The team played better without her, but last year were worn down by fatigue.. This year it was not fatigue- except perhaps by Gray who played a lot of minutes every game all year. It's a chemistry problem and gearing around Parker. When she returned last season she had a couple of good games but then reverted to her lack of effort disappearing games.

We can blame Tolar for the unbalanced roster this season. Bringing in Cheney made no sense other than to cater to her sister. If it came down to it I would prefer Cheney to Parker. She coasts most of the games and only gives sporadic effort. If you watch her during games she does very little blue coller work. Nneka does all the time. They should have used some resources to bring in a viable back up to Gray. Williams is too streaky a shooter and she is not PG. I can understand why the let Sims go, but trading for and replacing her with Jones? She does not have it between her ears to play in the WNBA.

I strongly suspect that Parker was instrumental in Aglers quitting. Tolar must have been involved as well. While Fisher could have been better, no coach would be able to work having to defer to the power that Parker wields on the Sparks. I also believe that Parker was part of the hiring process or at least had to give her approval. As long as Parker is with the Sparks the outcome will be the same no matter who the coach is or roster changes that are made.

 

[SCspur]

Not at all. Did you watch the Sun today or any of their series? They're outstanding. They won season series against both the Aces and Mystics, too.

Yes I watched them the entire season. The Sparks looked worst than the Sun looked good and they also don’t have a consistent leading scorer. JJ, AT, CW and JT each lead the team in scoring in the three games against the sparks but I don’t think that will get them by against the Aces or Mystics.

 

[j66kicker]

Trade Parker to Chicago for Samuelson, Williams, and 2 first round picks.

Haha. Parker wouldn’t even fetch one of the draft pics from any reasonable GM. Why give up assets for someone who doesn’t play defense, only plays hard when they feel like it, and is just going to poison your team?

 

[bballnut90]

Dear Candace: You scored 3 points and grabbed 1 rebound in 26 minutes in game 2 on Thursday. Care to explain that? Instead of complaining about your minutes this game.

...when did she complain? She simply answered the reporters questions in a calm demeanor.

 

[bballnut90]

Yes I watched them the entire season. The Sparks looked worst than the Sun looked good and they also don’t have a co⁸nsistent leading scorer. JJ, AT, CW and JT each lead the team in scoring in the three games against the sparks but I don’t think that will get them by against the Aces or Mystics.

Aces wouldnt even be playing if it wasnt for a miracle shot by Hamby. Aces havent been able to find a consistent go to player either. It has been a steady trade off between Wilson, Cambage and McBride throughout the year. Connecticut isn't stacked with players who were high draft picks (their only top 3 picks on the roster are Morgan Tuck and Shekinna Stricklen) but they just destroyed LA in 3 straight and won both series head to head over the Aces and Mystics. You're not giving them credit they deserve if you state the Aces/Mystics are "far and away the two best teams."

 

[bballnut90]

Is this the same coach that the players were going gaga over. How he sacrificed for his team, poured his heart out to his team about his troubles with the Knicks, how he traveled coach with his players etc.??

Now it is blame the coach time. The loss is squarely on the uninspired play of the players. Candice heads the list but the list is long (except Nneka). I think a lot of it was that Gray was a shell of herself and that rattled the team's psyche.

This is the coach who had zero experience coaching women and had a 29% win rate as an NBA head coach and was quickly fired after 1.5 bad seasons. Why anyone thought hiring him was a good idea is beyond me unless it was primarily a publicity stunt to get fans to come out.

 

[bballnut90]

I was a major critic of Fisher this season. But if you compare when the team played better and when they did not the common denominator from last season to this was when Parker returned. The team played better without her, but last year were worn down by fatigue.. This year it was not fatigue- except perhaps by Gray who played a lot of minutes every game all year. It's a chemistry problem and gearing around Parker. When she returned last season she had a couple of good games but then reverted to her lack of effort disappearing games.

We can blame Tolar for the unbalanced roster this season. Bringing in Cheney made no sense other than to cater to her sister. If it came down to it I would prefer Cheney to Parker. She coasts most of the games and only gives sporadic effort. If you watch her during games she does very little blue coller work. Nneka does all the time. They should have used some resources to bring in a viable back up to Gray. Williams is too streaky a shooter and she is not PG. I can understand why the let Sims go, but trading for and replacing her with Jones? She does not have it between her ears to play in the WNBA.

I strongly suspect that Parker was instrumental in Aglers quitting. Tolar must have been involved as well. While Fisher could have been better, no coach would be able to work having to defer to the power that Parker wields on the Sparks. I also believe that Parker was part of the hiring process or at least had to give her approval. As long as Parker is with the Sparks the outcome will be the same no matter who the coach is or roster changes that are made.

You realize in the last 4 years the Sparks have had more wins than any other franchise? Not sure the statement of "as long as Parker is with the Sparks the outcome will be the same" works for your anti Candace argument.

Also, when she came back the team did struggle to adjust losing 3 straight, but then they finished 14-5 the rest of the way with her once she settled in. That's pretty darn good.

I'll admit that Candace can have up and down efforts, but to say she is the center of their problems when the franchise has been excellent during her career doesnt make a lot of sense.

 

[Plebe]

I'm just loving the fact that some coach other than Geno is now Public Enemy Number One for all the Candace acolytes.

 

[SCspur]

Aces wouldnt even be playing if it wasnt for a miracle shot by Hamby. Aces havent been able to find a consistent go to player either. It has been a steady trade off between Wilson, Cambage and McBride throughout the year. Connecticut isn't stacked with players who were high draft picks (their only top 3 picks on the roster are Morgan Tuck and Shekinna Stricklen) but they just destroyed LA in 3 straight and won both series head to head over the Aces and Mystics. You're not giving them credit they deserve if you state the Aces/Mystics are "far and away the two best teams."

What more credit do they need? They’re the #2 seeded playoff team and going to the finals but that’s credit enough. McBride, Wilson and Cambage are all stars and the leading scorers on their team so it’s no surprise one of them is the leading scorer for a game. But Connecticut doesn’t have that. Courtney Williams and JJ both have been catalyst for the sun but they have to be consistent for the Sun to win the finals. The playoffs are a different story than the regular season. Your playing the same team more than once so adjustments are made throughout that time and I just don’t think Connecticut has what it takes to be Vegas and definitely not the Mystics.

 

[bballnut90]

What more credit do they need? They’re the #2 seeded playoff team and going to the finals but that’s credit enough. McBride, Wilson and Cambage are all stars and the leading scorers on their team so it’s no surprise one of them is the leading scorer for a game. But Connecticut doesn’t have that. Courtney Williams and JJ both have been catalyst for the sun but they have to be consistent for the Sun to win the finals. The playoffs are a different story than the regular season. Your playing the same team more than once so adjustments are made throughout that time and I just don’t think Connecticut has what it takes to be Vegas and definitely not the Mystics.

How is that any different than the Sun having one of Jones/Thomas/Thomas/Williams step up and lead their team for a game or 2?

And in regards to playoffs, the Sun just dominated a 22-12 Sparks team, winning 3 straight by an average of over 18ppg.

The Aces on the otherhand:
1. Finished lower in the regular season than the Sun
2. Lost 2/3 vs the Sun head to head
3. Wouldve lost at home before the semis if not for a miracle shot in the playoffs
4. Are down 2-1 in the semis to a team than the Sun won 2/3 against in the regular season.

Yet they are "far and away" a better team than the Sun because you argue they have 3 go to players? Not following your logic.

 

[SCspur]

How is that any different than the Sun having one of Jones/Thomas/Thomas/Williams step up and lead their team for a game or 2?

And in regards to playoffs, the Sun just dominated a 22-12 Sparks team, winning 3 straight by an average of over 18ppg.

The Aces on the otherhand:
1. Finished lower in the regular season than the Sun
2. Lost 2/3 vs the Sun head to head
3. Wouldve lost at home before the semis if not for a miracle shot in the playoffs
4. Are down 2-1 in the semis to a team than the Sun won 2/3 against in the regular season.

Yet they are "far and away" a better team than the Sun because you argue they have 3 go to players? Not following your logic.

their go to players are better and they play better defense when their locked in. The Aces are the only team left that can beat Washington. IYKYK ITYDK.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'm not a Sparks fan, so their demise didn't upset me, but it puzzled me.

Nneka Ogwumike had a good year, not at her MVP level, but as a top 5-10 player.

Chelsea Gray was mostly very good, but had 2 weak games in the playoffs.

Candace Parker looks old and tired and more interested in her announcing job.

Chiney Ogwumike looks like a bench player and more interested in her announcing job.

Riquana Williams can be very hot and dangerous, but also cold.

Alana Beard, who was a great defender the past few years especially, also looks old and tired.

The team was so much less than the sum of their parts.

 

[Carnac]

I'm not a Sparks fan, so their demise didn't upset me, but it puzzled me.

Nneka Ogwumike had a good year, not at her MVP level, but as a top 5-10 player.

Chelsea Gray was mostly very good, but had 2 weak games in the playoffs.

Candace Parker looks old and tired and more interested in her announcing job.

Chiney Ogwumike looks like a bench player and more interested in her announcing job.

Riquana Williams can be very hot and dangerous, but also cold.

Alana Beard, who was a great defender the past few years especially, also looks old and tired.

The team was so much less than the sum of their parts.

As a long time Sparks fan, I must agree with some of your observations. That said, I think it’s time to begin to retool the team by rotating some of the older players whose best days/games are behind them out, and add some new younger players.

This can be done over a 3 year period. You should maintain a veteran presence on the team. You don’t want a team full of 1-2 year players. GM Penny Toler has her work cut out for her. She is the person that makes all of the personnel moves/decisions for the team.

She can begin by promoting assistant coach Fred Williams to head coach, and waiving Derek Fisher, and allowing him to have a say in all future player personnel movement.

 

[bballnut90]

I'm not a Sparks fan, so their demise didn't upset me, but it puzzled me.

Nneka Ogwumike had a good year, not at her MVP level, but as a top 5-10 player.

Chelsea Gray was mostly very good, but had 2 weak games in the playoffs.

Candace Parker looks old and tired and more interested in her announcing job.

Chiney Ogwumike looks like a bench player and more interested in her announcing job.

Riquana Williams can be very hot and dangerous, but also cold.

Alana Beard, who was a great defender the past few years especially, also looks old and tired.

The team was so much less than the sum of their parts.

I think that's bound to happen when you have a plethora of injuries/suspensions, plus you're overloaded at one position and underwhelmed at another.

Honestly they had a really strong season going 22-12, especially with a rough year from Parker...they just tanked badly and Fisher quit on the team midway through. Teams with much bigger issues right now are Atlanta and New York.

 

[bballnut90]

As a long time Sparks fan, I must agree with some of your observations. That said, I think it’s time to begin to retool the team by rotating some of the older players whose best days/games are behind them out, and add some new younger players.

This can be done over a 3 year period. You should maintain a veteran presence on the team. You don’t want a team full of 1-2 year players. GM Penny Toler has her work cut out for her. She is the person that makes all of the personnel moves/decisions for the team.

She can begin by promoting assistant coach Fred Williams to head coach, and waiving Derek Fisher, and allowing him to have a say in all future player personnel movement.

Fred Williams...really? He's coached almost 8 full seasons and has only finished above .500 in two of them. He also nearly missed the playoffs last year despite having both Diggins-Smith and Cambage at 100%. Definitely would not be my first pick.

 

[Carnac]

Fred Williams...really? He's coached almost 8 full seasons and has only finished above .500 in two of them. He also nearly missed the playoffs last year despite having both Diggins-Smith and Cambage at 100%. Definitely would not be my first pick.

OK then, who? He worked with who/what he had as all coaches do. That could be an indictment on the GM (management) as well. I like Williams, and I like him better than Fisher.

 

[bballnut90]

OK then, who? He worked with who/what he had as all coaches do. That could be an indictment on the GM (management) as well. I like Williams, and I like him better than Fisher.

Lin Dunn, Shelley Patterson, Gail Goestenkors, another top assistant or an up and coming collegiate coach.....I don't know the WNBA coaching landscape that well, but there are so many bettter options than bringing in proven mediocrity.

 

[Carnac]

Lin Dunn, Shelley Patterson, Gail Goestenkors, another top assistant or an up and coming collegiate coach.....I don't know the WNBA coaching landscape that well, but there are so many better options than bringing in proven mediocrity.

Noted. I assume all of these choices were available to Toler at the time she decided to hire Fisher. Whether or not they would have accepted is another story. However, I get your point. The right coach can make a difference, but you've also got to have the right players too to be successful.

It will be interesting to see if Fisher is retained for next season, and if Parker returns.

 

[eebmg]

Noted. I assume all of these choices were available to Toler at the time she decided to hire Fisher. Whether or not they would have accepted is another story. However, I get your point. The right coach can make a difference, but you've also got to have the right players too to be successful.

It will be interesting to see if Fisher is retained for next season, and if Parker returns.

Clearly hiring Fisher was at least in part a PR move to get some NBA / Laker name recognition and buzz. I am not as negative as many here on him . His Knick stint was horrible beause he never even had 1 second of coaching experience and I imagine he learned alot and matured alot. I still think most of the players did not come to play and you should not have to explain why you are sitting a player if they did not come to play in an elimination game. And he said as much on the sideline which is gutsy.

Not sure of xxx-ooo skills but clearly the team seemd to have combustible personalities and egos under the surface and so many changes to the roster .

I suppose he will be the scape goat and be pushed out.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Playing devil's advocate...

Los Angeles went 22-12, good for 3rd place in the WNBA (and only one game out of 2nd place), with Candace Parker missing 12 game, Riquna Williams missing 11 games, Alana Beard missing 18 games, and Maria Vadeeva (the teams sixth leading scorer, at 7.8 ppg) missing 19 games.

As an aside, Lin Dunn (since her name was brought up) only won 22 games (and that amount exactly) twice in her 17 years in the WNBA, both of which were with Indiana.

LA had a bad playoff series against Connecticut. For starters, LA's roster has far too many post players whose skills duplicate one another instead of complementing each other. In addition, whereas Alyssa Thomas has been a complementary secondary facilitator to Jasmine Thomas, this year's version of Candace Parker seemed to clash with Chelsea Gray in terms of playmaking. The construction of the team was done by GM Penny Toler, not Coach Derek Fisher.

As another aside, LA went 19-15 last year, so this year represents a three-win improvement.

I cannot fathom a situation where a coach, in his first season, finishes 3rd out of 12 teams (and 1st in the Western Conference), wins 65 percent of his games, makes a significant improvement on the previous year's record and standing, yet is fired (absent any misconduct or off-the-court allegations/situations).

 

[Carnac]

Clearly hiring Fisher was at least in part a PR move to get some NBA / Laker name recognition and buzz. I am not as negative as many here on him . His Knick stint was horrible beause he never even had 1 second of coaching experience and I imagine he learned alot and matured alot. I still think most of the players did not come to play and you should not have to explain why you are sitting a player if they did not come to play in an elimination game. And he said as much on the sideline which is gutsy.

Not sure of xxx-ooo skills but clearly the team seemd to have combustible personalities and egos under the surface and so many changes to the roster .

I suppose he will be the scape goat and be pushed out.

Bad chemistry. Remember the observation that Sylvia Fowles made about this year's Minnesota Lynx roster?
She said "This year's roster doesn't have any knuckleheads on it". Good karma, good chemistry.

 

[psconn]

Playing devil's advocate...

Los Angeles went 22-12, good for 3rd place in the WNBA (and only one game out of 2nd place), with Candace Parker missing 12 game, Riquna Williams missing 11 games, Alana Beard missing 18 games, and Maria Vadeeva (the teams sixth leading scorer, at 7.8 ppg) missing 19 games.

As an aside, Lin Dunn (since her name was brought up) only won 22 games (and that amount exactly) twice in her 17 years in the WNBA, both of which were with Indiana.

LA had a bad playoff series against Connecticut. For starters, LA's roster has far too many post players whose skills duplicate one another instead of complementing each other. In addition, whereas Alyssa Thomas has been a complementary secondary facilitator to Jasmine Thomas, this year's version of Candace Parker seemed to clash with Chelsea Gray in terms of playmaking. The construction of the team was done by GM Penny Toler, not Coach Derek Fisher.

As another aside, LA went 19-15 last year, so this year represents a three-win improvement.

I cannot fathom a situation where a coach, in his first season, finishes 3rd out of 12 teams (and 1st in the Western Conference), wins 65 percent of his games, makes a significant improvement on the previous year's record and standing, yet is fired (absent any misconduct or off-the-court allegations/situations).

Did you personally think playing Parker 11 minutes and pulling his best players early in the 4th was justified assuming the goal was to win an elimination game? Not challenging, just curious.

 

[Roger G]

It so funny how people don't think the Sun are that good. I don't know what you are looking at. Jones has had multiple 20-20 games, leading the league in rebounds and blocks . Alyssa Thomas is an unquestioned physical force. Courtney Williams is a super star in the making. Shekinna Stricklen won the 3 point contest. And Jasmine Thomas is pretty good when she needs to be, like in this last game. I guess some people will only see how good they are after they celebrate. I see it now.

Anyway, a lot of games are won on the boards. CT was 2nd in the league in rebounds and they dominated the Sparks there. The Aces were first, but they haven't the defense or offense to compete with the Sun. If they beat the Mystics, I think the Sun will make Jackie Young take a whole lot of shots. Let's see if she can hit enough shots in a 5 game series. I doubt it. By the way, the Mystics were ranked 10 of 12 on the boards this year. Horrible. The first WNBA championship in franchise history is coming to CT.