September 2019 WNBA Discussions, scores, game info, pictures | Page 14 | The Boneyard

September 2019 WNBA Discussions, scores, game info, pictures

Really bad showing by the Sparks this series....I thought this board would be jumping all over the fact that Parker was benched the vast majority of the game. She sat the entire final 15:54. No idea what Fisher's game plan was for tonight though...he straight up gave up on his players:

Parker-only played 11 minutes, sat almost the entire 2nd half without any health issues
Gray-sat her the entire 4th quarter
Nneka-sat her the entire last 6:50

It was a strange season for LA this year...they never seemed settled in between Parker's injury, Riquna William's suspension and assault charges, their overabundance of posts, Beard missing most of the year and randomly picking up Chiney when they really had no use for her.

LA looked outstanding at times and just awful at other points. Connecticut badly outplayed them this series and deserves to play for the title.

A quick side note, but I also low key love that Connecticut crushed Chiney's team after she left them high and dry. I'm not a fan at all of players demanding trades or threatening to sit out when it badly screws over their former team (saw it with Charles, Camage, EDD, Fowles and now Ogwumike). Had to feel good for Sun fans to see their team improve without her, then soundly sweep her new team en route to the finals.
 
SCspur said:
The winner of the Aces-Mystics will win the W finals. Those are far and away the two best teams..
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Not at all. Did you watch the Sun today or any of their series? They're outstanding. They won season series against both the Aces and Mystics, too.
 
Side note--based on Parker getting benched and her general body language on the bench today, I will be surprised if she plays for Fisher next season. Guessing her overall struggles were in part due to coaching change, and getting benched to finish the year isn't going to sit well with her. Plus when you factor in that LA has SO many posts, including some promising young ones in Vadeeva/Brown and the Ogwumike's being a packaged deal, one of them has to go since they badly need help on the wing and Parker might be the right choice.
 
bballnut90 said:
Side note--based on Parker getting benched and her general body language on the bench today, I will be surprised if she plays for Fisher next season. Guessing her overall struggles were in part due to coaching change, and getting benched to finish the year isn't going to sit well with her. Plus when you factor in that LA has SO many posts, including some promising young ones in Vadeeva/Brown and the Ogwumike's being a packaged deal, one of them has to go since they badly need help on the wing and Parker might be the right choice.
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Plebe said:
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Honestly more than anything it seems like there is a major disconnect between Fisher and his players. He flat out gave up on his team today and they just looked uninspired. I questioned his coaching at the beginning of the season and I think this series and overall poor play by the Sparks has as much to do with him as it has to do with any individual players.
 
.-.
Dear Candace: You scored 3 points and grabbed 1 rebound in 26 minutes in game 2 on Thursday. Care to explain that? Instead of complaining about your minutes this game.
 
nwhoopfan said:
I quit watching early in Q1. Unbelievable how bad LA was in this series. Nneka the only player that showed up. Parker's on again off again routine is par for the course, but who would've expected Gray to be this bad 3 games in a row? Time to blow up the team and start over?

Box scores don't tell you everything, but looks like pretty much Jasmine Thomas and Courtney Williams won this game, Sun didn't get much else from anybody else. Some bench players chipped in but the other 3 starters didn't produce much. Well now Connecticut gets to rest for a while. Mystics don't look as unbeatable as I thought thru most of the season. Maybe this will but the Sun's year rather than the Mystics'.
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The CT defense won the game for the most part.
 
bballnut90 said:
Honestly more than anything it seems like there is a major disconnect between Fisher and his players. He flat out gave up on his team today and they just looked uninspired. I questioned his coaching at the beginning of the season and I think this series and overall poor play by the Sparks has as much to do with him as it has to do with any individual players.
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Is this the same coach that the players were going gaga over. How he sacrificed for his team, poured his heart out to his team about his troubles with the Knicks, how he traveled coach with his players etc.??

Now it is blame the coach time. The loss is squarely on the uninspired play of the players. Candice heads the list but the list is long (except Nneka). I think a lot of it was that Gray was a shell of herself and that rattled the team's psyche.
 
Good morning.
When the L.A. Sparks were reduced to 7 or 8 players during the regular season, Coach Fisher was mixing and matching matchups on an almost quarterly basis and got contributions from everyone, including rookies Brown and Mabrey. Vibes felt good. Then everyone came back and it almost seemed like the returning players expected things to go back to "normal," while the slightly revised approaches went out the door. It worked, to some degree, closing out the season and against a dinged-up Seattle team, but not against the class teams of the league.

I'll be very interested to see in what direction Sparks management goes here. Parker and the O sisters appear to be in L.A., come whatever and the backcourt is wildly up and down (does one need both Williams and Gray?).
Shame about the frontcourt, because you've got some serious young talent at the post, sitting on the bench.
 
.-.
I was a major critic of Fisher this season. But if you compare when the team played better and when they did not the common denominator from last season to this was when Parker returned. The team played better without her, but last year were worn down by fatigue.. This year it was not fatigue- except perhaps by Gray who played a lot of minutes every game all year. It's a chemistry problem and gearing around Parker. When she returned last season she had a couple of good games but then reverted to her lack of effort disappearing games.

We can blame Tolar for the unbalanced roster this season. Bringing in Cheney made no sense other than to cater to her sister. If it came down to it I would prefer Cheney to Parker. She coasts most of the games and only gives sporadic effort. If you watch her during games she does very little blue coller work. Nneka does all the time. They should have used some resources to bring in a viable back up to Gray. Williams is too streaky a shooter and she is not PG. I can understand why the let Sims go, but trading for and replacing her with Jones? She does not have it between her ears to play in the WNBA.

I strongly suspect that Parker was instrumental in Aglers quitting. Tolar must have been involved as well. While Fisher could have been better, no coach would be able to work having to defer to the power that Parker wields on the Sparks. I also believe that Parker was part of the hiring process or at least had to give her approval. As long as Parker is with the Sparks the outcome will be the same no matter who the coach is or roster changes that are made.
 
bballnut90 said:
Not at all. Did you watch the Sun today or any of their series? They're outstanding. They won season series against both the Aces and Mystics, too.
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Yes I watched them the entire season. The Sparks looked worst than the Sun looked good and they also don’t have a consistent leading scorer. JJ, AT, CW and JT each lead the team in scoring in the three games against the sparks but I don’t think that will get them by against the Aces or Mystics.
 
triaddukefan said:
Trade Parker to Chicago for Samuelson, Williams, and 2 first round picks.
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Haha. Parker wouldn’t even fetch one of the draft pics from any reasonable GM. Why give up assets for someone who doesn’t play defense, only plays hard when they feel like it, and is just going to poison your team?
 
nwhoopfan said:
Dear Candace: You scored 3 points and grabbed 1 rebound in 26 minutes in game 2 on Thursday. Care to explain that? Instead of complaining about your minutes this game.
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...when did she complain? She simply answered the reporters questions in a calm demeanor.
 
SCspur said:
Yes I watched them the entire season. The Sparks looked worst than the Sun looked good and they also don’t have a co⁸nsistent leading scorer. JJ, AT, CW and JT each lead the team in scoring in the three games against the sparks but I don’t think that will get them by against the Aces or Mystics.
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Aces wouldnt even be playing if it wasnt for a miracle shot by Hamby. Aces havent been able to find a consistent go to player either. It has been a steady trade off between Wilson, Cambage and McBride throughout the year. Connecticut isn't stacked with players who were high draft picks (their only top 3 picks on the roster are Morgan Tuck and Shekinna Stricklen) but they just destroyed LA in 3 straight and won both series head to head over the Aces and Mystics. You're not giving them credit they deserve if you state the Aces/Mystics are "far and away the two best teams."
 
eebmg said:
Is this the same coach that the players were going gaga over. How he sacrificed for his team, poured his heart out to his team about his troubles with the Knicks, how he traveled coach with his players etc.??

Now it is blame the coach time. The loss is squarely on the uninspired play of the players. Candice heads the list but the list is long (except Nneka). I think a lot of it was that Gray was a shell of herself and that rattled the team's psyche.
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This is the coach who had zero experience coaching women and had a 29% win rate as an NBA head coach and was quickly fired after 1.5 bad seasons. Why anyone thought hiring him was a good idea is beyond me unless it was primarily a publicity stunt to get fans to come out.
 
.-.
willtalk said:
I was a major critic of Fisher this season. But if you compare when the team played better and when they did not the common denominator from last season to this was when Parker returned. The team played better without her, but last year were worn down by fatigue.. This year it was not fatigue- except perhaps by Gray who played a lot of minutes every game all year. It's a chemistry problem and gearing around Parker. When she returned last season she had a couple of good games but then reverted to her lack of effort disappearing games.

We can blame Tolar for the unbalanced roster this season. Bringing in Cheney made no sense other than to cater to her sister. If it came down to it I would prefer Cheney to Parker. She coasts most of the games and only gives sporadic effort. If you watch her during games she does very little blue coller work. Nneka does all the time. They should have used some resources to bring in a viable back up to Gray. Williams is too streaky a shooter and she is not PG. I can understand why the let Sims go, but trading for and replacing her with Jones? She does not have it between her ears to play in the WNBA.

I strongly suspect that Parker was instrumental in Aglers quitting. Tolar must have been involved as well. While Fisher could have been better, no coach would be able to work having to defer to the power that Parker wields on the Sparks. I also believe that Parker was part of the hiring process or at least had to give her approval. As long as Parker is with the Sparks the outcome will be the same no matter who the coach is or roster changes that are made.
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You realize in the last 4 years the Sparks have had more wins than any other franchise? Not sure the statement of "as long as Parker is with the Sparks the outcome will be the same" works for your anti Candace argument.

Also, when she came back the team did struggle to adjust losing 3 straight, but then they finished 14-5 the rest of the way with her once she settled in. That's pretty darn good.

I'll admit that Candace can have up and down efforts, but to say she is the center of their problems when the franchise has been excellent during her career doesnt make a lot of sense.
 
bballnut90 said:
Aces wouldnt even be playing if it wasnt for a miracle shot by Hamby. Aces havent been able to find a consistent go to player either. It has been a steady trade off between Wilson, Cambage and McBride throughout the year. Connecticut isn't stacked with players who were high draft picks (their only top 3 picks on the roster are Morgan Tuck and Shekinna Stricklen) but they just destroyed LA in 3 straight and won both series head to head over the Aces and Mystics. You're not giving them credit they deserve if you state the Aces/Mystics are "far and away the two best teams."
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What more credit do they need? They’re the #2 seeded playoff team and going to the finals but that’s credit enough. McBride, Wilson and Cambage are all stars and the leading scorers on their team so it’s no surprise one of them is the leading scorer for a game. But Connecticut doesn’t have that. Courtney Williams and JJ both have been catalyst for the sun but they have to be consistent for the Sun to win the finals. The playoffs are a different story than the regular season. Your playing the same team more than once so adjustments are made throughout that time and I just don’t think Connecticut has what it takes to be Vegas and definitely not the Mystics.
 
SCspur said:
What more credit do they need? They’re the #2 seeded playoff team and going to the finals but that’s credit enough. McBride, Wilson and Cambage are all stars and the leading scorers on their team so it’s no surprise one of them is the leading scorer for a game. But Connecticut doesn’t have that. Courtney Williams and JJ both have been catalyst for the sun but they have to be consistent for the Sun to win the finals. The playoffs are a different story than the regular season. Your playing the same team more than once so adjustments are made throughout that time and I just don’t think Connecticut has what it takes to be Vegas and definitely not the Mystics.
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How is that any different than the Sun having one of Jones/Thomas/Thomas/Williams step up and lead their team for a game or 2?

And in regards to playoffs, the Sun just dominated a 22-12 Sparks team, winning 3 straight by an average of over 18ppg.

The Aces on the otherhand:
1. Finished lower in the regular season than the Sun
2. Lost 2/3 vs the Sun head to head
3. Wouldve lost at home before the semis if not for a miracle shot in the playoffs
4. Are down 2-1 in the semis to a team than the Sun won 2/3 against in the regular season.

Yet they are "far and away" a better team than the Sun because you argue they have 3 go to players? Not following your logic.
 
bballnut90 said:
How is that any different than the Sun having one of Jones/Thomas/Thomas/Williams step up and lead their team for a game or 2?

And in regards to playoffs, the Sun just dominated a 22-12 Sparks team, winning 3 straight by an average of over 18ppg.

The Aces on the otherhand:
1. Finished lower in the regular season than the Sun
2. Lost 2/3 vs the Sun head to head
3. Wouldve lost at home before the semis if not for a miracle shot in the playoffs
4. Are down 2-1 in the semis to a team than the Sun won 2/3 against in the regular season.

Yet they are "far and away" a better team than the Sun because you argue they have 3 go to players? Not following your logic.
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their go to players are better and they play better defense when their locked in. The Aces are the only team left that can beat Washington. IYKYK ITYDK.
 
I'm not a Sparks fan, so their demise didn't upset me, but it puzzled me.

Nneka Ogwumike had a good year, not at her MVP level, but as a top 5-10 player.

Chelsea Gray was mostly very good, but had 2 weak games in the playoffs.

Candace Parker looks old and tired and more interested in her announcing job.

Chiney Ogwumike looks like a bench player and more interested in her announcing job.

Riquana Williams can be very hot and dangerous, but also cold.

Alana Beard, who was a great defender the past few years especially, also looks old and tired.

The team was so much less than the sum of their parts.
 
.-.
MilfordHusky said:
I'm not a Sparks fan, so their demise didn't upset me, but it puzzled me.

Nneka Ogwumike had a good year, not at her MVP level, but as a top 5-10 player.

Chelsea Gray was mostly very good, but had 2 weak games in the playoffs.

Candace Parker looks old and tired and more interested in her announcing job.

Chiney Ogwumike looks like a bench player and more interested in her announcing job.

Riquana Williams can be very hot and dangerous, but also cold.

Alana Beard, who was a great defender the past few years especially, also looks old and tired.

The team was so much less than the sum of their parts.
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As a long time Sparks fan, I must agree with some of your observations. That said, I think it’s time to begin to retool the team by rotating some of the older players whose best days/games are behind them out, and add some new younger players.

This can be done over a 3 year period. You should maintain a veteran presence on the team. You don’t want a team full of 1-2 year players. GM Penny Toler has her work cut out for her. She is the person that makes all of the personnel moves/decisions for the team.

She can begin by promoting assistant coach Fred Williams to head coach, and waiving Derek Fisher, and allowing him to have a say in all future player personnel movement.
 
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MilfordHusky said:
I'm not a Sparks fan, so their demise didn't upset me, but it puzzled me.

Nneka Ogwumike had a good year, not at her MVP level, but as a top 5-10 player.

Chelsea Gray was mostly very good, but had 2 weak games in the playoffs.

Candace Parker looks old and tired and more interested in her announcing job.

Chiney Ogwumike looks like a bench player and more interested in her announcing job.

Riquana Williams can be very hot and dangerous, but also cold.

Alana Beard, who was a great defender the past few years especially, also looks old and tired.

The team was so much less than the sum of their parts.
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I think that's bound to happen when you have a plethora of injuries/suspensions, plus you're overloaded at one position and underwhelmed at another.

Honestly they had a really strong season going 22-12, especially with a rough year from Parker...they just tanked badly and Fisher quit on the team midway through. Teams with much bigger issues right now are Atlanta and New York.
 
Carnac said:
As a long time Sparks fan, I must agree with some of your observations. That said, I think it’s time to begin to retool the team by rotating some of the older players whose best days/games are behind them out, and add some new younger players.

This can be done over a 3 year period. You should maintain a veteran presence on the team. You don’t want a team full of 1-2 year players. GM Penny Toler has her work cut out for her. She is the person that makes all of the personnel moves/decisions for the team.

She can begin by promoting assistant coach Fred Williams to head coach, and waiving Derek Fisher, and allowing him to have a say in all future player personnel movement.
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Fred Williams...really? He's coached almost 8 full seasons and has only finished above .500 in two of them. He also nearly missed the playoffs last year despite having both Diggins-Smith and Cambage at 100%. Definitely would not be my first pick.
 
bballnut90 said:
Fred Williams...really? He's coached almost 8 full seasons and has only finished above .500 in two of them. He also nearly missed the playoffs last year despite having both Diggins-Smith and Cambage at 100%. Definitely would not be my first pick.
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OK then, who? :eek: He worked with who/what he had as all coaches do. That could be an indictment on the GM (management) as well. I like Williams, and I like him better than Fisher.
 
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Carnac said:
OK then, who? :eek: He worked with who/what he had as all coaches do. That could be an indictment on the GM (management) as well. I like Williams, and I like him better than Fisher.
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Lin Dunn, Shelley Patterson, Gail Goestenkors, another top assistant or an up and coming collegiate coach.....I don't know the WNBA coaching landscape that well, but there are so many bettter options than bringing in proven mediocrity.
 
bballnut90 said:
Lin Dunn, Shelley Patterson, Gail Goestenkors, another top assistant or an up and coming collegiate coach.....I don't know the WNBA coaching landscape that well, but there are so many better options than bringing in proven mediocrity.
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Noted. I assume all of these choices were available to Toler at the time she decided to hire Fisher. Whether or not they would have accepted is another story. However, I get your point. The right coach can make a difference, but you've also got to have the right players too to be successful.

It will be interesting to see if Fisher is retained for next season, and if Parker returns.
 
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