Senator Murphy’s Legislation on College Athletes

[CocoHusky]

Your opinion on the G League is hardly a universally held consensus. One of the reasons the NBA started the Professional Development program was to keep top HS kids from heading overseas. At present, the poster kid for this program is Jalen Green, who can earn almost a million dollars before eventually being drafted to the NBA. Many pro scouts believe Green could go #1.

Beyond a top HS kid like Green, the G League has been a springboard for lots of players who would not otherwise have made it to the NBA. Adrian Griffin, Aubrey’s dad, went undrafted out of Seton Hall, banged around in the G League for a few years, parlayed that into an 8 yr journeyman career in the NBA and ultimately ended up as an Ast Coach for the Raptors.

Another player with a connection to UConn WBB is Piath’s brother Wenyen. After a couple years at KY, Wenyen took the G League route and has now earned a roster spot with the Pelicans.

You can dismiss the G League all you want, but for many players it provided an essential opportunity for them to successfully live out their dream in the NBA.

My opinions are hardly ever gain universal consensus. You are kind of burying the lead on the Jalen Green story which kind of emphasized my point. Green's options were limited go to college, go to the G-League or go overseas and play. His options should have included going straight to the NBA. If he failed in the NBA all the other options would still be available to him. If he was successful in the NBA his MINIMUM salary would have been $898K. G-League players earn about $7,000 per month. Or $35,000, for a 5-month season. BTW the remainder of G-League season for 19-20 was cancelled due to COVID and it has not resumed. Green is projected to be a high 2021 NBA draft pick however.

 

[j66kicker]

The G league is a joke of a band aid. For every Kwame Brown there was a successful NBA story of HS to professional. Jalen Rose has this saying: You are not a failure if you can afford to buy your Mama a house". Not only was Kwame Brown able to buy his momma a house but with his first NBA contract he was able to acquire enough wealth for his parents, himself, and his kids=3 generations. That's not a failure in my book. It is a great American story. In America you get to make personal choices some of which turn out to be bad and others that turn out to be good. College is not the right answer for everyone.

Those NBA guys make SOOO much $$. Jalen & Jacoby were discussing some player's houses and Jacoby asked Jalen if he had any miscellaneous houses leftover from various marriages, etc. Jalen said he has houses he hasn't even seen.

 

[oldude]

My opinions are hardly ever gain universal consensus. You are kind of burying the lead on the Jalen Green story which kind of emphasized my point. Green's options were limited go to college, go to the G-League or go overseas and play. His options should have included going straight to the NBA. If he failed in the NBA all the other options would still be available to him. If he was successful in the NBA his MINIMUM salary would have been $898K. G-League players earn about $7,000 per month. Or $35,000, for a 5-month season. BTW the remainder of G-League season for 19-20 was cancelled due to COVID and it has not resumed. Green is projected to be a high 2021 NBA draft pick however.

I don’t disagree with your argument that Green would have had the opportunity to go directly to the NBA were it not for the current age restriction. But the Professional Development program provides a minimum salary of $125,000 per year along with year round developmental services including mentoring programs, life skills and academic support, something that might have been the difference for someone like Sebastian Telfair.

 

[CocoHusky]

Love you Coco, but strongly disagree.

1) The $50k in that scenario would be compensation from the booster, probably reported on a IRS form 1099 (and yeah Uncle Sam still gets his piece as he would with any other income.)
2) Making athletes employees of the University would be a disaster. They'd probably come under collective bargaining agreements which would make removal problematic. (Consider that Kevin Ollie is still "arbitrating" his removal from 3 years ago.)
3) What university is going to cap outside income? Why would a top recruit go somewhere where his image remuneration is limited?

Love you too.
Kevin Ollie aside, what exactly would make "removal problematic" for any employee collecting bargained or not?
At my company we have a set of policies that must be followed. Failure to follow them could result in removal. Isn't that the same as the way NCAA teams operate today? Players that violate team rules are dismissed.
I agree with you, only the University that have integrity will refuse to admit a student who are know to have been bought and paid for. I have no doubt that UCONN will be among those University but I'll concede you point that many others will not.

 

[freshler40]

The cry of those mean colleges taking advantage of its players is absurd. No one would even go to see those games if they were not associated with their respective colleges. You can gage the value of those teams by comparing them to the lower professional leagues. Players who play for any team other than the top professional teams get paid very little id anything at all. Even the top professional league except fot baseball popularity was fueled by the popularity of college games.

It is not the quality of the team that gives the college game value. Most simi pro teams are better. Rather it is the market value of the alumni that dictates TV value. Which is why ND was still on a national TV network each week even when the team was not that good. Just observe how many peope pay to see simi pro teams in basketball. National TV has ruined the market value for local teams.

If players start getting paid, then teams will just become simi pro teams using the schools facilities. The actual conection to the schools and the support it garners will be lost. You can see this in many professional teams over seas that are affilliated with colleges. They need to be financed by cities of corporations.
.

Yours is a good comparison and assessment of the 2nd/3rd tier sports teams, most are locally supported but modestly, even a few small markets provide the facility through bond sales like in Hartford. One problem here is the ability of the players to now freely move among colleges with no wait time per NCAA rules. The full impact of this is yet to be seen but happening quickly. Any financial inducements given to a player under this new arrangement would create a contract tying the play for period of time to the college. At least it is the players choice rather than an NCAA requirement. Let the free market decide these values.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don’t disagree with your argument that Green would have had the opportunity to go directly to the NBA were it not for the current age restriction. But the Professional Development program provides a minimum salary of $125,000 per year along with year round developmental services including mentoring programs, life skills and academic support, something that might have been the difference for someone like Sebastian Telfair.

$898K>$125K. The $125K salary is only for Select G-League players- AKA Elite Prospects-AKA Lottery picks in waiting. For every professional development service you mention as being available to G-League player is also available at NBA level- only better.

 

[Sifaka]

As I read this discussion, with all of the passionate pros and cons and unanswered (unaswerable?) questions, I feel a nagging need for context. If we limit the conversation to WCBB, this may all be a bit less Earth-shattering.

As of last year—and Covid has probably changed things a little—there were 351 Division 1 teams. Let's assume that Div. 2 and 3 won't attract material N.I.L money. Let's also assume that the teams ranked from 100 to 351 probably don't have many players that will attract funding beyond the local pizza shop.

Another assumption: Those 100 top schools have an average of, say, 13 scholarship students. If it's 14 or 15, just shoot me. And then remember that the Ivies don't have athletic scholarships, so that brings the average down a tad if one or two of them are in the top 100. No, you don't have to unshoot me. This is all broad brush musing, where numbers after the decimal don't matter.

So we have roughly 1300 students. I'd guess that no more than ten percent of them will be in play—all puns intended—for promotional payments visible without a magnifying glass. Of these 130, the bulk of available funds will be directed to the best, say 50%, or 65. The rest will get a little, but not enough to seriously affect GDP per capita in their college towns.

What does all of this imply, to me at least?
Glad you asked.

1. The pool of big advertising and promotional dollars from Nike, Addidas, et alia isn't going to grow. The schools and NCAA will get a little less, and a few students will get something, rather than today's goose egg. The NCAA and schools won't like this, but will live with it. Don't be suprised if they collude to create lots of arcane rules to try to control things. That, after all, is what they are good at, in a strained sense of "good".

2. The pretense of student/athlete will continue to shortchange the student aspect at most programs. This is, after all, an entertainment business, and education is a minor hindrance to building and supporting that empire.

3. Coaching salaries at the most visible programs will continue to dwarf those of academic department heads and full professors in general. This is, after all, an entertainment business...

4. There will likely be some bumps in the road as this develops, but the sky won't fall. Falling skies are reserved for years when we don't sign enough bigs.

 

[Jingo]

I don't want colleges to pay their athletes bcuz I don't want my tuition money mixed in with the money that is being used to pay the athletes.
A simple solution would be to divvy up ALL the TV money and distribute it equally back to ALL the schools. That way, competition is restored and the playing field is level once again.
Free tuition, room and board, and a valuable degree at the end, is adequate compensation for 99.9% of student-athletes. The few others - one tenth of one percent - can skip school and go directly to the pros, eh? Problem solved!

 

[oldude]

$898K>$125K. The $125K salary is only for Select G-League players- AKA Elite Prospects-AKA Lottery picks in waiting. For every professional development service you mention as being available to G-League player is also available at NBA level- only better.

OK, so here's my last argument. You have stated that college is not for everyone. Truer words were never spoken. I would respectfully suggest that coming right out of HS into the NBA is not for everyone either, regardless of their physical maturity and basketball talent. The G-League program offers a third option that may work better for some kids just out of HS who lack the maturity to live an NBA lifestyle.

 

[CL82]

Love you too.
Kevin Ollie aside, what exactly would make "removal problematic" for any employee collecting bargained or not?
At my company we have a set of policies that must be followed. Failure to follow them could result in removal. Isn't that the same as the way NCAA teams operate today? Players that violate team rules are dismissed.
I agree with you, only the University that have integrity will refuse to admit a student who are know to have been bought and paid for. I have no doubt that UCONN will be among those University but I'll concede you point that many others will not.

The removal procedures in the University's CBS are cumbersome. It would not be a simple as saying that an individual failed to follow team rules. Heck Kevin Ollie got the NCAA's "show cause" penalty for the actions that caused his discharge from UConn and, as I said, three years later we are still in arbitration and there has yet to be a hearing.

 

[CocoHusky]

OK, so here's my last argument. You have stated that college is not for everyone. Truer words were never spoken. I would respectfully suggest that coming right out of HS into the NBA is not for everyone either, regardless of their physical maturity and basketball talent. The G-League program offers a third option that may work better for some kids just out of HS who lack the maturity to live an NBA lifestyle.

Most endeavors which are voluntary: military, most occupations, college, voting, marriage are by definition "not for everyone". You don't strengthen those endeavors by restricting an individuals ability to sign up for the endeavor as the NBA is doing. The G-League and the age restriction provides crutch for NBA GM who is afraid of making a mistake in selecting a HS kid. The stark reality is that those GM are making just as many mistakes in selecting the one and done players into the NBA. The one and done is itself a sham and a disgrace to all institutions whose primary purpose is education.

 

[oldude]

Most endeavors which are voluntary: military, most occupations, college, voting, marriage are by definition "not for everyone". You don't strengthen those endeavors by restricting an individuals ability to sign up for the endeavor as the NBA is doing. The G-League and the age restriction provides crutch for NBA GM who is afraid of making a mistake in selecting a HS kid. The stark reality is that those GM are making just as many mistakes in selecting the one and done players into the NBA. The one and done is itself a sham and a disgrace to all institutions whose primary purpose is education.

My only comment is that age restrictions in the NBA have little to do with NBA GM’s and everything to do with the players and their CBA with the owners, restricting access and thereby protecting marginal veterans.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't want colleges to pay their athletes bcuz I don't want my tuition money mixed in with the money that is being used to pay the athletes.
A simple solution would be to divvy up ALL the TV money and distribute it equally back to ALL the schools. That way, competition is restored and the playing field is level once again.
Free tuition, room and board, and a valuable degree at the end, is adequate compensation for 99.9% of student-athletes. The few others - one tenth of one percent - can skip school and go directly to the pros, eh? Problem solved!

I do want the college players in mens' Basketball and Football to get paid.
Image if you could start a business in this country where your cost of labor is close to zero.
Tuition money cannot and is not be mixed with athletic money today and need not be in the future.
Your proposal to distribute up All the TV money equally is exactly what happens from the Conference networks and the NCAA men's tournament. The Longhorn Network, BCS are a few exceptions but no one else makes enough money from TV to even talk about.

 

[CocoHusky]

The removal procedures in the University's CBS are cumbersome. It would not be a simple as saying that an individual failed to follow team rules. Heck Kevin Ollie got the NCAA's "show cause" penalty for the actions that caused his discharge from UConn and, as I said, three years later we are still in arbitration and there has yet to be a hearing.

Quite honestly I have not paid attention to Ollie's situation. At my company we get law suits all the time for wrongful termination and all it does is allow a bunch of lawyers to continue to be unproductive members of society. My experience is the clearer (black and white) the policies the easier it is to terminate. Policy: Don't smoke weed: Me: Got it-that's not my thing anyway. [ ]

 

[MooseJaw]

We all have options. Players like Lebron James, who skip college and go directly to the pros, are exceedingly rare. In college football, such players don’t even exist. This has nothing to do with individual choice. It is all about a system that is set up to exploit athletes so that colleges, tv networks and other entities can make millions of dollars. There is something hypocritical and frankly, un-American about such a system.

As someone pointed out, we live in a free market system. The NCAA has made its case for special protection all the way to the Supreme Court, and they have lost. Whether anyone likes it or not, the day when college athletes can earn money off their name, image or likeness is coming.

I do agree that navigating this brave new world will be like traversing a minefield. There will be abuses. But the courts have made it clear to the NCAA that they had better figure it out.

So in effect the only way to be fair as there is wide disagreement is to end college athletics. In any given situation there are inherent inequities, in one way or another. There is no bottom line way that everyone is treated equitably, it just is impossible. the solution is ???

 

[CL82]

Quite honestly I have not paid attention to Ollie's situation. At my company we get law suits all the time for wrongful termination and all it does is allow a bunch of lawyers to continue to be unproductive members of society. My experience is the clearer (black and white) the policies the easier it is to terminate. Policy: Don't smoke weed: Me: Got it-that's not my thing anyway. [ ]

Or in this case...
Policy: Don't cheat, and if you don't lie about it to the NCAA and the school.
UConn: You did? You're fired.
NCAA: You did, you can't coach for three years.
Kevin: I did, and I am suing you for $11M.
CL82: [shrugs]

 

[oldude]

So in effect the only way to be fair as there is wide disagreement is to end college athletics. In any given situation there are inherent inequities, in one way or another. There is no bottom line way that everyone is treated equitably, it just is impossible. the solution is ???

I believe the NCAA and their member institutions can devise a fair and equitable solution, where players are able to earn a few $$, and it will not destroy college sports as we know it.

There were similar concerns about the Olympics and the entire concept of amateurism back in 1986 when professionals were first permitted to compete. Low and behold, 35 years later the Olympic Games are as strong as ever.

 

[MooseJaw]

I believe the NCAA and their member institutions can devise a fair and equitable solution, where players are able to earn a few $$, and it will not destroy college sports as we know it.

There were similar concerns about the Olympics and the entire concept of amateurism back in 1986 when professionals were first permitted to compete. Low and behold, 35 years later the Olympic Games are as strong as ever.

Yes, however the armature or what was supposed to be armature idea was undone because of what Russia and other countries called their team members who were never armatures. I don't trust the NCAA they look out themselves first.

 

[Stinger92860]

Yesterday, Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut along with Congresswoman Lori Trahan of MA submitted a bill in Congress titled the College Athlete Economic Freedom Act that would permit college athletes to profit off their “name, image or likeness.”

Murphy stated, “It’s time for us to stop denying the right of college athletes to make money off their talents.” The fact that a CT Senator introduced this legislation is interesting considering that one of the likely beneficiaries will undoubtedly be UConn’s Paige Bueckers. I figure it’s just a matter of time before Geno asks Paige to start picking up the checks on UConn road trips.

Does he understand what the boosters in the SEC or ACC will do with this? He is a complete idiot.

 

[Stinger92860]

It’s true in all sports, don’t be naive. In football those kids will get 100’s of thousands, if not a million. In WBB they will get 10’s of thousand each year. UConn will be killed. Murphy is a complete dope.