SEC 2019-2020 discussion

[SimpleDawg]

Mingo-Young is may be very good for Mississippi State too. She was a 5-star recruit at one point, but underwent a series of knee injuries that put her in the back end of the top-100.

I saw her go up against SC's Destanni Henderson in Naples, FL the one year over Christmas, and she totally outplayed Henderson (I think Mingo-Young was a sophomore and Henderson a junior). Mingo-Young had 36 in an 85-74 win. Probably better than her ranking shows.

Agree, she's already better than any of the freshman we had last year even towards the end of the year. (same with Hemingway and Jackson) I thought Vic had her play the 4 a few times in Napoli and she was actually good. The reason for that I don't know but I'm guessing he knows something.

I think her shooting off the bench is key, and she can be one of our many run-sparking players off the bench because she's a pace changer. And she's probably ideal in certain offensive plays..... maybe the weave I'm just gonna take a guess.

Though I think if there's a redshirt that's the most likely, it'll be her - the rest are not likely to be redshirted. But if Vic can find 8 or 9 minutes per game for her, I wouldn't redshirt her just because she's already really good.


...

 

[SECbbfan24]

If they can take and make the 3. I'll put them over A&M any day. But you right. It kills me to not see them shoot much 3's. I think they have capable shooters. But..... Nikki gotta let them shoot it. They'll never have confidence in their shot if it's not being taken.

I hate her offensive philosophy. I've been around a lot of their practices and they focus pretty much on nothing but defense and rebounding most the time (sounds like another Tennessee coach). She says she wants to be more versatile and shoot better for 3 but then tells players she would rather them take it to the basket then to shoot the 3 because its a "higher percentage shot". It makes no sense to me.

IMO the game has become so much more offensively driven. While its important and great to have outstanding defense, good teams will score no matter how well you defend. At some point you have to be able to put up points to win games. Her offenses have never put up a lot of points, and this goes back to her UCLA days. I just don't know if that will ever change with her unfortunately.

 

[SECbbfan24]

Mingo-Young is may be very good for Mississippi State too. She was a 5-star recruit at one point, but underwent a series of knee injuries that put her in the back end of the top-100.

I saw her go up against SC's Destanni Henderson in Naples, FL the one year over Christmas, and she totally outplayed Henderson (I think Mingo-Young was a sophomore and Henderson a junior). Mingo-Young had 36 in an 85-74 win. Probably better than her ranking shows.

I thought Mingo Young was without doubt the best player in the state prior to her knee injury. Got the chance to watch her a lot locally. She has some catching up to do but if she ever gets back to where she was before, she will be a major player for state. She certainly had some nice moments in the tournament this trip. Her ranking dropped due to missed time due to the injury but I would not worry about that.

If she can stay healthy and build onto her game she will see significant time as a true frosh.

 

[Dwilliams02]

I hate her offensive philosophy. I've been around a lot of their practices and they focus pretty much on nothing but defense and rebounding most the time (sounds like another Tennessee coach). She says she wants to be more versatile and shoot better for 3 but then tells players she would rather them take it to the basket then to shoot the 3 because its a "higher percentage shot". It makes no sense to me.

IMO the game has become so much more offensively driven. While its important and great to have outstanding defense, good teams will score no matter how well you defend. At some point you have to be able to put up points to win games. Her offenses have never put up a lot of points, and this goes back to her UCLA days. I just don't know if that will ever change with her unfortunately.

I don't want to wish bad luck. Because all of sports is great when LSU is great.... But i hope the new AD has high expectations she has to follow through with.

 

[Plebe]

I hate her offensive philosophy. I've been around a lot of their practices and they focus pretty much on nothing but defense and rebounding most the time (sounds like another Tennessee coach). She says she wants to be more versatile and shoot better for 3 but then tells players she would rather them take it to the basket then to shoot the 3 because its a "higher percentage shot". It makes no sense to me.

IMO the game has become so much more offensively driven. While its important and great to have outstanding defense, good teams will score no matter how well you defend. At some point you have to be able to put up points to win games. Her offenses have never put up a lot of points, and this goes back to her UCLA days. I just don't know if that will ever change with her unfortunately.

This is all on point. It's more like an offensive non-philosophy. This is 100% the Pat Summitt school of thought: defend and rebound well enough and the scoring will somehow take care of itself. Well, that works when you have far and away the best collection of athletes. Otherwise, not so much.

Not long ago I saw a piece about Tennessee's 1997-98 undefeated team, and Holly Warlick said something like, "I don't even know why we [the coaches] were there. That team was so good, it was just roll the ball out and watch them win." Can you imagine Geno or Chris Dailey saying such a thing about ANY of the multiple dominant undefeated teams they've had?

 

[stwainfan]

This is all on point. It's more like an offensive non-philosophy. This is 100% the Pat Summitt school of thought: defend and rebound well enough and the scoring will somehow take care of itself. Well, that works when you have far and away the best collection of athletes. Otherwise, not so much.

Not long ago I saw a piece about Tennessee's 1996-97 undefeated team, and Holly Warlick said something like, "I don't even know why we [the coaches] were there. That team was so good, it was just roll the ball out and watch them win." Can you imagine Geno or Chris Dailey saying such a thing about ANY of the multiple dominant undefeated teams they've had?

That was a great team. Catchings was a freshman. One of the best teams ever to play. I have the DVD of the title game vs LaTECH. The team could just put up points in a hurry.
Here is a link

tennessee vs la tech national - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[Plebe]

That was a great team. Catchings was a freshman. One of the best teams ever to play. I have the DVD of the title game vs ODU. The team could just put up points in a hurry.
Here is a link tennessee vs old dominion national championship - Bing video

Yeah, no thanks, not really high on my priority list of things to watch.

I got my years mixed up. I was referring to the 1998 undefeated team. The 1997 team was the 10-loss team.

 

[stwainfan]

Yeah, no thanks, not really high on my priority list of things to watch.

I got my years mixed up. I was referring to the 1998 undefeated team. The 1997 team was the 10-loss team.

That is true. It was La Tech in 98 game. Tennessee had 53 points at halftime.

 

[biobioprof]

If they can take and make the 3. I'll put them over A&M any day. But you right. It kills me to not see them shoot much 3's. I think they have capable shooters. But..... Nikki gotta let them shoot it. They'll never have confidence in their shot if it's not being taken.

What team is not stronger if they can take and make the 3? To take LSU “any day”, what about the days when the Ags are taking and making our 3s too? That’s just as likely. LSU and A&M play at least twice every year. The two teams know each other really well because of Bob Starkey’s time at both and how Nikki and Blair know each other. The teams split the season series a lot. To my eye when LSU wins it’s usually a mild upset and it’s usually due to turnovers and fast break points. LSU has also been very good at drawing charging calls against us, which feeds frustration and leads to more turnovers.

So, while the game in general may be more offense oriented, the Tigers old school D has, IMO, been crucial in playing us.

 

[triaddukefan]

That was a great team. Catchings was a freshman. One of the best teams ever to play. I have the DVD of the title game vs LaTECH. The team could just put up points in a hurry.
Here is a link

tennessee vs la tech national - Search Videos

www.bing.com

You ever see this video? I was in attendance.

 

[Plebe]

You ever see this video? I was in attendance.

Now this is one I make sure to watch now and then. Possibly my favorite non-UConn game.

It's actually how Tennessee's season would have likely ended the previous year (regional final) if they weren't playing on their home court.

 

[triaddukefan]

Now this is one I make sure to watch now and then. Possibly my favorite non-UConn game.

It's actually how Tennessee's season would have likely ended the previous year (regional final) if they weren't playing on their home court.

Yep..... That 1998 Tarheel team was fast and athletic... but actually that game was played at Vandy with that crazy floor.... but 99.5% of the crowd was of course in Orange. The heels were up double digits with about 7-8 minutes to go in the 2nd half but let it slip away. One more note about the regional finals of 1998.. All 3 Triangle Schools played that day/night.... State beat UCONN in Dayton, the heels let a big lead slip away.... and Duke let a late lead slip away and lost to a 9th seeded Arkansas squad coached by Gary Blair.

 

[Plebe]

Yep..... That 1998 Tarheel team was fast and athletic... but actually that game was played at Vandy with that crazy floor.... but 99.5% of the crowd was of course in Orange. The heels were up double digits with about 7-8 minutes to go in the 2nd half but let it slip away. One more note about the regional finals of 1998.. All 3 Triangle Schools played that day/night.... State beat UCONN in Dayton, the heels let a big lead slip away.... and Duke let a late lead slip away and lost to a 9th seeded Arkansas squad coached by Gary Blair.

Ah, I don't know why I coulda sworn they'd played in Knoxville. Shows I need to fact-check myself

I was thrilled when Duke burst the orange balloon in this regional final and was disappointed they lost to Purdue.

 

[Dwilliams02]

What team is not stronger if they can take and make the 3? To take LSU “any day”, what about the days when the Ags are taking and making our 3s too? That’s just as likely. LSU and A&M play at least twice every year. The two teams know each other really well because of Bob Starkey’s time at both and how Nikki and Blair know each other. The teams split the season series a lot. To my eye when LSU wins it’s usually a mild upset and it’s usually due to turnovers and fast break points. LSU has also been very good at drawing charging calls against us, which feeds frustration and leads to more turnovers.

So, while the game in general may be more offense oriented, the Tigers old school D has, IMO, been crucial in playing us.

I promise you, I'm not knocking A&M but if LSU had more offensive production specifically shooting and making the 3. They'll win at least 3-4 more games. Which would put them at the 10-11 win mark in the SEC. Which is what I think A&M will be at. 10-12 wins. So they can hop them. Now it may not be a likely scenario

 

[Plebe]

You ever see this video? I was in attendance.

Here's a nice screenshot from that classic game. The past and present of TNWBB:

 

[Gamecockfan77]

They do return two players who shot >42% from three in Bibby and Espinoza-Hunter, both are the best returning three point shooters in the SEC. From what I understand, Rickea Jackson shoots the three well too. Potentially three starters who shoot the three really well, and AEH gets it off really quick and Bibby has a high release, so both can shoot without much time or space.

I'm a little skeptical that Bibby is a true 45% 3pt shooter. But you're right, if she does shoot like that again, she and Espinosa-Hunter will stretch the floor.

Everyone else is a question mark.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Your predictions are pretty spot on. I personally think SC has the advantage on both Miss St and A&M this year with both games being at home. We win both of those games then we have a greater chance of winning the SEC than anyone else. It’s time we started a new home winning streak this year.

Brea and Aliyah will start imo with Destanni, Ty and KiKi. Dawn will bring her spark plugs off the bench (Zia, LA, LeLe, Victaria, Olivia, and E). If Littleton is eligible she will likely start at 3, but for now Brea is my pick.

I think Boston is probably the most ready to play with Beal running second. I agree that those are the two that make the most sense to me to enter starting lineup on paper as freshmen.

I also agree it's probably Littleton on the wing if she is for some reason given a waiver. Not sure how she would and given past history you wouldn't think South Carolina would get it even if it is open and shut.

I did watch some Canadian national team full games with Amihere, and I think she's a lot more raw than some other folks seem to think. I've seen a couple suggest she will start on the wing, but to me she's a less skilled player than A'ja Wilson at the same stage of her career. If A'ja played more than a handful of minutes on the wing I do not recall it. Coming off injuries to both knees, I just think she's a near lock to backup both post spots with Saxton.

With Coach Staley, you never quite know how she is going to handle freshman vs veteran playing time though. She's pretty consistently favored veterans and let some pretty flawed ones get playing time over more talented freshmen, especially in the starting lineup. I'd not be shocked to see Saxton start early on or even Grissette. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Who do you guys pic for SEC freshman of the year? Jordan Hortson is the highest ranked freshman in the class. Will she win it?

1. Rickea Jackson - I might have picked her anyway, but seeing the number of shots she got up in Italy, she's got to be the runaway leader in the clubhouse.

2. Jordan Horston - I really love her, but not sure she's going to come in and be the focal point of the offense and put up so many shots, so I put her behind Jackson.

I don't know enough about Blackwell and Young to handicap their chances. Seems like there are a lot of shots at Missouri to replace.

I think any of the South Carolina four could make all freshman. I'm not sure that any will be able to win POY.

1. Boston - Best bet to start and get regular playing time. I think she'll come in and immediately be a unflashy double double threat. She does work on the boards and defends.

2. Beal - She reminds me a lot of Allisha Gray as far as size and game. She doesn't seem to need the ball a lot to be productive and she has the second best chance at earning a starting spot, in my view.

3. Amihere - I think she's pretty raw and rehabilitating two knee injuries. I think her position will be four and that spot is occupied by a very good senior. It's possible, I have this one underrated and she forcers her way into the lineup, but I don't think that's who she is going to be next season.

4. Zia Cooke - rated last of the four simply because you have a senior PG in Harris and a sophomore PG in Henderson who was very good last year (and #1 PG in 2018 class). However, she is a scorer and should get minutes off the bench so you never do know.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

This is all on point. It's more like an offensive non-philosophy. This is 100% the Pat Summitt school of thought: defend and rebound well enough and the scoring will somehow take care of itself. Well, that works when you have far and away the best collection of athletes. Otherwise, not so much.

Not long ago I saw a piece about Tennessee's 1997-98 undefeated team, and Holly Warlick said something like, "I don't even know why we [the coaches] were there. That team was so good, it was just roll the ball out and watch them win." Can you imagine Geno or Chris Dailey saying such a thing about ANY of the multiple dominant undefeated teams they've had?

Geno isn't the most self-effacing guy around, so I don't think he would say that either -- even in retrospect.

 

[DaBball]

I'm a little skeptical that Bibby is a true 45% 3pt shooter. But you're right, if she does shoot like that again, she and Espinosa-Hunter will stretch the floor.

Everyone else is a question mark.

Bre Scott also shot 43%, though she only took 63 attempts.

 

[SCspur]

I think Boston is probably the most ready to play with Beal running second. I agree that those are the two that make the most sense to me to enter starting lineup on paper as freshmen.

I also agree it's probably Littleton on the wing if she is for some reason given a waiver. Not sure how she would and given past history you wouldn't think South Carolina would get it even if it is open and shut.

I did watch some Canadian national team full games with Amihere, and I think she's a lot more raw than some other folks seem to think. I've seen a couple suggest she will start on the wing, but to me she's a less skilled player than A'ja Wilson at the same stage of her career. If A'ja played more than a handful of minutes on the wing I do not recall it. Coming off injuries to both knees, I just think she's a near lock to backup both post spots with Saxton.

With Coach Staley, you never quite know how she is going to handle freshman vs veteran playing time though. She's pretty consistently favored veterans and let some pretty flawed ones get playing time over more talented freshmen, especially in the starting lineup. I'd not be shocked to see Saxton start early on or even Grissette. Stranger things have happened.

She’s raw but she’s very athletic and much much faster than A’ja. In fact she’s faster than any post player I’ve seen in a while. She dominates on sheer speed and athleticism so imagine when she’s taught the full fundamentals and her skill set comes along... she will be one of the best players in the country regardless class or position.

 

[j66kicker]

Here’s Dawn - short Players Tribune video...

The Playing Field | By Dawn Staley

"If you can bring out the best in people, then success will follow." Dawn Staley shares how she aims to motivate her team.

www.theplayerstribune.com

 

[DallasBUFan]

I think A&M may really do some damage. SEC is decetly wide open in my opinion.

SC has a good group returning and coming in.
Miss St also has pretty good group returning, but don't have McCowan to rely on. So it will be interesting to watch them.
A&M returns most or all starters if I'm correct. They pushed the National Runner Up to till the end, and if that is a preview of who they can be then watch out.
Kentucky has Howard...

 

[SimpleDawg]

Here's my prediction:


(13-3)
1a. Mississippi State
1b. South Carolina
1c. Texas A&M

3 best teams last year. None of them should be upset in their conference more than once, at most twice with the talent that they have. Average team in this conference has one or two great players.... these 3 should have at least 5 with room to spare. If there's one of those who can win both the head-to-head games, they will be SEC champs, though SC plays both their rivals at home. Not sure if we play A&M twice or not, but if we play them only once..... it'll be in Starkville. The crowds at Columbia and Starkville are fierce, so Texas A&M is disadvantaged by that one extra rough wind they have to sail through.


(11-5)
4. Tennessee

I think with Warlick the team beat themselves a lot last year. With KJH, she might not elevate them in her first year, but I don't think she'll screw them up either, so 11-5 sounds about logical to the tune of the talent level that they have.


(10-6)
5. Arkansas
6. Auburn

I think Auburn is not getting enough credit. Not that I think they'll be elite, but I bet they'll be stronger this year with a solid nucleus of 3 or 4 players. Arkansas should be on the rise.... they can't play defense but they have enough offense to possibly give those 3 upper tier teams a good fight scoring 80/90 points.


(9-7)
7. Kentucky

I think Kentucky like Missouri will dive a little. I think both Kentucky and Missouri will be around 9-7/8-8. Both can win those low-scoring ugly games. Though at least they have that and were good at the physical contact/turnover battle game at times last year. But I think they'll be too low scoring to win consistently in this league.


(8-8)
8. Missouri
9. LSU

I think Tiara Young could offer some points and be like what Vivians was to Mississippi State in her first year, but the team probably isn't strong enough collectively to win more than that. I also think that applies to Missouri outside of one player, maybe two. Missouri lost 4 out of 5 of their top scorers so I don't expect they'll be that hard to beat for teams like A&M, MSU, or SC.


(6-10)
10. Vanderbilt
11. Ole Miss

I think Ole Miss is showing signs of improvement in their "decent" recruiting some ranked players probably passed over by bigger schools. I think they'll improve. Same for Vanderbilt, except they'll improve by 4 whole games.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(3-13)
11. Georgia

I think Georgia will dive the most.... I think they're headed towards irrelevant.


(2-14)
13. Alabama

I think they'll be worse, or at least no real forward movement so they'll slowly drift down flatly.


(0-16)
14. Florida

Gone their top 2 scorers, I think they'll be restroom soap.



...

 

[Jmsdawg]

Here's my prediction:


(13-3)
1a. Mississippi State
1b. South Carolina
1c. Texas A&M

3 best teams last year. None of them should be upset in their conference more than once, at most twice with the talent that they have. Average team in this conference has one or two great players.... these 3 should have at least 5 with room to spare. If there's one of those who can win both the head-to-head games, they will be SEC champs, though SC plays both their rivals at home. Not sure if we play A&M twice or not, but if we play them only once..... it'll be in Starkville. The crowds at Columbia and Starkville are fierce, so Texas A&M is disadvantaged by that one extra rough wind they have to sail through.


(11-5)
4. Tennessee

I think with Warlick the team beat themselves a lot last year. With KJH, she might not elevate them in her first year, but I don't think she'll screw them up either, so 11-5 sounds about logical to the tune of the talent level that they have.


(10-6)
5. Arkansas
6. Auburn

I think Auburn is not getting enough credit. Not that I think they'll be elite, but I bet they'll be stronger this year with a solid nucleus of 3 or 4 players. Arkansas should be on the rise.... they can't play defense but they have enough offense to possibly give those 3 upper tier teams a good fight scoring 80/90 points.


(9-7)
7. Kentucky

I think Kentucky like Missouri will dive a little. I think both Kentucky and Missouri will be around 9-7/8-8. Both can win those low-scoring ugly games. Though at least they have that and were good at the physical contact/turnover battle game at times last year. But I think they'll be too low scoring to win consistently in this league.


(8-8)
8. Missouri
9. LSU

I think Tiara Young could offer some points and be like what Vivians was to Mississippi State in her first year, but the team probably isn't strong enough collectively to win more than that. I also think that applies to Missouri outside of one player, maybe two. Missouri lost 4 out of 5 of their top scorers so I don't expect they'll be that hard to beat for teams like A&M, MSU, or SC.


(6-10)
10. Vanderbilt
11. Ole Miss

I think Ole Miss is showing signs of improvement in their "decent" recruiting some ranked players probably passed over by bigger schools. I think they'll improve. Same for Vanderbilt, except they'll improve by 4 whole games.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(3-13)
11. Georgia

I think Georgia will dive the most.... I think they're headed towards irrelevant.


(2-14)
13. Alabama

I think they'll be worse, or at least no real forward movement so they'll slowly drift down flatly.


(0-16)
14. Florida

Gone their top 2 scorers, I think they'll be restroom soap.



...

Simple, appreciate your analysis. Agree with most but I tend to believe Texas A&M is the SEC top team. My belief is based upon the dependence both SC and MSST must rely on, freshmen, to be highly successful next year. A&M has proven returning players and I am concerned the MSST/SC freshmen will find the SEC more physical than what they saw in HS. MSST has always, at least since I have watched them, been a physical team especially in the post. Not sure next year’s team will continue that trend. As for SC, they have a stellar freshman class on paper but they have not been tested yet. I also believe you have Kentucky rated too low, for me Kentucky and Tennessee are both dangerous teams likely to finish close to the top of the SEC.