SC Game: How Much Difference Would Caroline and Azzi Really Make?

[Fore!]

Azzi Fudd not making a difference? You are kidding right?

Let’s see, in last year’s final Fudd scored 3 pts and Ducharme scored 9. Same in your face defensive strategy we saw yesterday made UConn’s guards struggle last year. Unless UConn devises a better offensive scheme to get open shots for their 3 point shooters (which they may) don’t expect a different result.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

You should add the Free Throws that Boston and Cardoso made to their totals. Majority of there free throws were caused by getting fouls called down low.

So were our free throws though. And our free throws didn't come from fouls to lengthen the game, they all came from drives to the basket.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Let’s see, in last year’s final Fudd scored 3 pts and Ducharme scored 9. Same in your face defensive strategy we saw yesterday made UConn’s guards struggle last year. Unless UConn devises a better offensive scheme to get open shots for their 3 point shooters (which they may) don’t expect a different result.

Azzi was sick last year. She didn't even play in the second half.

 

[hookshot]

Something that was completely overlooked about that play with Lou (and the reason Cooke took a shoulder) was that Cooke pulled Lou in grabbing her jersey. We would have had a few more assists in this game had Lou been able to draw a foul on back cuts to the rim. She was getting grabbed and the officials let it go, leading to a turnover because Lou couldn't get to the ball. Lou gets beat up, yet she is the one fouling out of the game. Boston had one personal foul in that game...really? The officials had no problem calling fouls on Cardoso, but let Boston doing whatever she wanted.

Refs don't call everything, when they do, the "let em play" crowd is heard from. Hence, players get pretty smart about what they can get away with, e.g., body bumps are OK (Nika has certainly taken advantage of that) but extended arms or elbows will get you a foul.

Refs tend to call things that they can 'hang their hat on" so to speak, like people falling down as a result of contact; players have reacted by inventing the flop. Maybe, Boston has become pretty smart about using her size (both bulk and height ) advantage to the limits of what is tolerated, maybe Cardosa is still learning). Maybe Boston does get some free passes because she is the one that is selling the tickets. But, defenders have learned that they can get away with mayhem, if not murder, on mobile players like Lou S. A series of hits, bumps, and grabs may take away their total game but no one grab is enough to gain Refs priority because no one is shooting and no one has fallen down (Lou tries hard not to fall down, to fight thru it).

There may have been some method to Geno's apparent temporary insanity in tossing a bottle. He was generally frustrated about his inability to exercise his responsibility to protect Lou (currently, his primary offensive asset). Who knows if help is on the way with a healthy Azzi and/or CD. Can he win a NC with these 5 (or 8 players) if this type of defense is tolerated. The long view is that it is his job to do something to bring attention to this, and this would do it. Poor choice (because he was virtually conceding a game that his players were pouring their guts out to win) ? But, he has been known to do things that transfer heat from his players to him, for a greater cause ?

 

[hookshot]

Refs don't call everything, when they do, the "let em play" crowd is heard from. Hence, players get pretty smart about what they can get away with, e.g., body bumps are OK (Nika has certainly taken advantage of that) but extended arms or elbows will get you a foul. Refs tend to call things that they can 'hang their hat on" so to speak, like people falling down as a result of contact; players have reacted by inventing the flop. Maybe, Boston has become pretty smart about using her size (both bulk and height ) advantage to the limits of what is tolerated, maybe Cardosa is still learning). Maybe Boston does get some free passes because she is the one that is selling the tickets. But, defenders have learned that they can get away with mayhem, if not murder, on mobile players like Lou S. A series of hits, bumps, and grabs may take away their total game but no one grab is enough to gain Refs priority because no one is shooting and no one has fallen down (Lou tries hard not to fall down, to fight thru it). There may have been some method to Geno's apparent temporary insanity in tossing a bottle. He was generally frustrated about his inability to exercise his responsibility to protect Lou (currently, his primary offensive asset). Who knows if help is on the way with a healthy Azzi and/or CD. Can he win a NC with these 5 (or 8 players) if this type of defense is tolerated. The long view is that it is his job to do something to bring attention to this, and this would do it. Poor choice (because he was virtually conceding a game that his players were pouring their guts out to win) ? But, he has been known to do things that transfer heat from his players to him, for a greater cause ?

 

[Gordo]

Agree with much of this. Empty possessions are an issue in any close game. The technical cost one lost possession and two points, but there were 3 other empty possessions caused by inability to inbound the ball (that is uncharacteristic of Uconn). In two of the 3, if not all 3, it appeared that they were so focused on running a set play that they ignored the ole CYO rule that if the passer is in trouble, you come to the ball. Add those 4 empty possessions to the few "open" looks that failed to produce points and you may have had enough to tip the score. You aren't likely going to overhaul SC, playing from behind. You need to maintain a lead. Another rough 2nd quarter took that opportunity away. The game was a mix of lost opportunities and spectacular individual efforts and team play. I think Geno, the team, and the fans) got what they needed out of this game, a lessons learned on the match-up of these two teams, and a reinforcement that this Uconn team is a legitimate contender for a final 4 and NC

Yes, you are correct there were several empty possessions caused by the inability to inbound the ball and the the team's failure to properly react when a player is in trouble and come to the ball. That's fundamental or at least should be especially at this level. However, failures, regardless of what kind, happen throughout every ball game. An untimely and unneeded technical foul by a coach is not!

 

[Rowdy831]

What I'm saying add Azzi to the lineup and you move your most athletic wing in Aubrey to the bench. Now you are at a much more deficit at rebounding. Also Aubrey did a excellent job of defending Cooke. Does that trade off help. I don't know. I feel like to beat sc you gotta neutralize the disperancy in rebounding and second chance points.

Great point. I think Aubrey is the most important player to them beating teams like SC. She is a great defender, she can score from outside, and she can attack the rim. If you trade her for a perimeter scoring threat you would lose a lot in the trade too.

 

[luminosity]

Azzi and Caroline would have made a huge difference. This seems obvious.

Yes, UCONN, even without those two, have an incredible offense. However, to get to that level, they all have to work incredibly hard. The result of that are periods of exhaustion as we often see in the 2nd and 4th quarters.

Adding Azzi and Caroline means that you can produce the same high quality of offense with less effort which can help to prevent the drops in quality that we see at the end of each half and allows the team to put even more effort on defense and rebounding.

Adding Azzi and Caroline, two scorers that can carry games by themselves, also stops defenses from focusing on Lou, the sole consistent outside threat. That, in turn, opens up the paint for drives.

All of this would have helped against South Carolina and given them a better chance to win the game.

 

[Rowdy831]

If you put Azzi in for Dorka I think you will have much better offense while keeping your defense about the same. If you trade out Aubrey instead I think you gain on offense but you lose a lot on defense and on the glass. The biggest help having them back will be getting the players on the court some rest and offensively they will score.

 

[HuskyBaggins]

I did slog through the entire Postgame Thread for the South Carolina game. When you get past the referee complaints, there seems to be a consensus that if UConn only lost by 4 points with its current active roster, then it should certainly win when Caroline and Azzi are added to the mix. Geno elaborated on the thinking behind this position during his press conference, where he said that the only way for this roster to beat SC is to take and make enough 3's to offset the 2's that the Gamecocks are inevitably going to get on the offensive boards.

He implied pretty strongly that even with a 10-player roster, UConn this year doesn't have the horses to really contest SC's offensive boards -- he said that to do that, you would need about four 6-5 players who could be freely substituted so that none of them would have to worry about fouls. Unfortunately, I think he's right, and that will still be the case when Azzi and Caroline return. It would be different if Ice were returning or if Jana could play immediately. So I think it's unlikely that UConn will do better against SC's O-boards in April than they did in today's game.

But (so the theory goes) when Azzi and Caroline are on the floor, SC won't be able to drape Lou and those three shooters (with one or two timely contributions from Nika and Aubrey) can make enough 3's to offset SC's second-chance points. But I'm not sure that I buy into that theory. The reason is that SC's defensive plan today was to guard UConn's perimeter shooters so closely that 3's were not open, even if it meant that those perimeter players could drive past them, which UConn certainly did. (Did anyone notice that UConn actually got more points in the paint today than SC, by a margin of 42-38?) Dawn apparently figured that if she could turn UConn's 3-point shooters into 2-point penetrators, SC would win that trade-off, and that is exactly what happened.

For some reason that I haven't figured out, the screens and cuts that usually provide open looks for 3-point shots weren't working today, or weren't being used. I do think that Azzi and Caroline are better than any of today's players at seeing where they can move without the ball to get open, so that may be the difference that they will make. I certainly hope so ...

Seriously ? First of all, the cuts and screens weren't working because South Caroline was holding our guards. That's why Geno threw a flippin' water bottle on the court . If this question is serious, you need to buy a clue somewhere.

 

[Topdawg]

A few points that may need greater emphasis:
1. Nika was being limited in her touches. Hence assists were difficult to come by. Having a ball handler like Azzi makes it harder for opponents to limit assists.
2. Harder to guard multiple sharp shooters. Lou, Azzi, Caroline, and maybe Nika and Aubrey, will get more open looks.
3. Lou, Azzi have strong mid range games. Having outside shooters also opens up the lane for Caroline and Aubrey.
4. More productive players equates to fewer concerns about fouling out. You can be more aggressive on the defense and also press from time to time.

For all of these reasons, I believe the next game will be more exciting! i Hope we field a 10 person roster starting mid-February.

 

[tchalla1]

Azzi Fudd not making a difference? You are kidding right?

Thank you. If we would have another outside scorer, it would have made all the difference in the world, especially, with our usual 2nd quarter swoon. Yes, we were outrebounded by SC's frontline, but we had to work so hard for our buckets. Does anyone not think that Azzi firing three-pointers from afar and Caroline would not have made a huge difference? Remember the NC State game and also Texas when Azzi scored 20 points in like a quarter's worth of work? She is instant offense. Azzi's presence certainly would have freed up Lou more. I think so... With the same effort of yesterday from players and along with Azzi and Caroline's contributions, I say UConn is sitting pretty good...

 

[tchalla1]

I love being positive about our team this year....but Azzi Fudd is not even an All American yet, and won't be this year because of the lack of playing time she will get/an example is Paige last year. She is not a really seasoned player, a really good one, true, but is she a game changer like Paige? Can she make an opening for her to get a shot against a good defense, enough that is to change the outcome of the game, like today?

To answer your questions: Yes, yes, and yes...

 

[freshler40]

A lot of interesting points were made in this discussion. I think the main point made is that SC won because of the difference in the BIG bodies on the court. Talented, big bodies have always been a huge factor in the basketball world.

You must foul them out as we drove out Cardoza but it took six (6) fouls to do it!!!!!!

 

[freshler40]

How many players can SC play at one time? I think it's just 5?

So, who's gonna guard Azzi AND Lou? Significantly harder since someone will have to come out of the paint to help, opening up AE and/or Dorka.

So to answer your question, yes. Would have made a BIG difference.

Apparently, SC can play six (6) at a time as you can count Cardoza twice, once for height and #2 for 6 fouls.

 

[freshler40]

Refs don't call everything, when they do, the "let em play" crowd is heard from. Hence, players get pretty smart about what they can get away with, e.g., body bumps are OK (Nika has certainly taken advantage of that) but extended arms or elbows will get you a foul. Refs tend to call things that they can 'hang their hat on" so to speak, like people falling down as a result of contact; players have reacted by inventing the flop. Maybe, Boston has become pretty smart about using her size (both bulk and height ) advantage to the limits of what is tolerated, maybe Cardosa is still learning). Maybe Boston does get some free passes because she is the one that is selling the tickets. But, defenders have learned that they can get away with mayhem, if not murder, on mobile players like Lou S. A series of hits, bumps, and grabs may take away their total game but no one grab is enough to gain Refs priority because no one is shooting and no one has fallen down (Lou tries hard not to fall down, to fight thru it). There may have been some method to Geno's apparent temporary insanity in tossing a bottle. He was generally frustrated about his inability to exercise his responsibility to protect Lou (currently, his primary offensive asset). Who knows if help is on the way with a healthy Azzi and/or CD. Can he win a NC with these 5 (or 8 players) if this type of defense is tolerated. The long view is that it is his job to do something to bring attention to this, and this would do it. Poor choice (because he was virtually conceding a game that his players were pouring their guts out to win) ? But, he has been known to do things that transfer heat from his players to him, for a greater cause ?

Thanks for the good general observation. There are always tradeoffs. Geno's technical is ringing far and wide we hope. Refs are people to.

 

[DEpup]

Since everyone is covering the differences between lineups with different players pretty thoroughly, I wanted to point out how having so few players hurts us in other ways. We can say well that player would have done better than this one, but I think we sometimes forget that every player being used for heavy minutes will be better with a bigger rotation. If we add Azzi and Caroline later, Nika, Lou, Aubrey, Aaliyah and Dorka can all be more productive when they are on the court.

Much of that is not being fatigued. At these minutes they can't be 100% all the time. They have to pick their spots, learn to conserve energy in spots etc. Lou in particular is playing under the handicap of being the opponents defense focus. If Azzi is in the game, she will draw that attention, and with Caroline we should always have two major three point threats instead of one on the floor most of the time, so yes spacing matters for the others too.

Turning to Geno, his hands have been tied in so many ways. When you only have one bench player you want to use (Ayanna) and then only as little as necessary, your game management and practice schedules are totally disrupted. He can't call timeouts for strategic purposes very often, he has to have them managed at intervals to give his players rest to avoid substitutions. He can't insert players for strategic purposes off the bench or make multiple moves because if it is a rotation of 6 your resting player has to be ready to go back in before you can take another one out.

Practices are not as effective because you have to limit time to preserve energy for the games, and you may not have enough players to even do 5 on 5. So it is far more than just this new healthy player will be an upgrade over who we are using now. The players we are using now will be better when rested, have more opportunities when we can spread the floor and have more options for opponents to worry about, we will have better practices, and during the game Geno can take timeouts, and make substitutions strategically, and press and fast break more if he wants to.

I so agree and I would add another point. The value of the change up and not allowing an opponent to get comfortable.

Right now, opponents can settle in because they only have really one dimension to concentrate on with just 5 players. That is such a mental clarity that helps opponents even with how really good those 5 are.

Everyone is correct when they compare and contrast the specialties of Lou, Azzi, Aubrey, Caroline, and Nika.... However, I haven't heard yet that when you are switching them out regularly, you force the opponent to have to also keep track and change their strategy when they get a different look because of those different specialties. They are human so that can lead to miscommunication, momentary confusion, and being out of position. At this level, you only need that to happen a couple times to make a 4pt loss become a 4pt win.

 

[Junkman]

Let’s see, in last year’s final Fudd scored 3 pts and Ducharme scored 9. Same in your face defensive strategy we saw yesterday made UConn’s guards struggle last year. Unless UConn devises a better offensive scheme to get open shots for their 3 point shooters (which they may) don’t expect a different result.

As has been noted by @hoopsnloops32 , Azzi was sick for the NC game. As for Caroline, she had 9 points in 22 minutes, and I would argue that she was our most effective player in that game after Paige.

 

[Mandoo]

I did slog through the entire Postgame Thread for the South Carolina game. When you get past the referee complaints, there seems to be a consensus that if UConn only lost by 4 points with its current active roster, then it should certainly win when Caroline and Azzi are added to the mix. Geno elaborated on the thinking behind this position during his press conference, where he said that the only way for this roster to beat SC is to take and make enough 3's to offset the 2's that the Gamecocks are inevitably going to get on the offensive boards.

He implied pretty strongly that even with a 10-player roster, UConn this year doesn't have the horses to really contest SC's offensive boards -- he said that to do that, you would need about four 6-5 players who could be freely substituted so that none of them would have to worry about fouls. Unfortunately, I think he's right, and that will still be the case when Azzi and Caroline return. It would be different if Ice were returning or if Jana could play immediately. So I think it's unlikely that UConn will do better against SC's O-boards in April than they did in today's game.

But (so the theory goes) when Azzi and Caroline are on the floor, SC won't be able to drape Lou and those three shooters (with one or two timely contributions from Nika and Aubrey) can make enough 3's to offset SC's second-chance points. But I'm not sure that I buy into that theory. The reason is that SC's defensive plan today was to guard UConn's perimeter shooters so closely that 3's were not open, even if it meant that those perimeter players could drive past them, which UConn certainly did. (Did anyone notice that UConn actually got more points in the paint today than SC, by a margin of 42-38?) Dawn apparently figured that if she could turn UConn's 3-point shooters into 2-point penetrators, SC would win that trade-off, and that is exactly what happened.

For some reason that I haven't figured out, the screens and cuts that usually provide open looks for 3-point shots weren't working today, or weren't being used. I do think that Azzi and Caroline are better than any of today's players at seeing where they can move without the ball to get open, so that may be the difference that they will make. I certainly hope so ...

Even as a newbie to this website, I believe great passing and the ultra-quick catch/shoot by Azzi would make a huge difference in success from the perimeter 3's. I always have read this site for several years and I have to say that if we look at Caroline's shooting percentages, despite the exhortations of her fans, she is not a great shooter by any means. Sad to say, she takes a bump and she's down for the count for many weeks, too. For this year until the end of the season, I question her success at truly making a difference.

 

[JBK]

Let’s see, in last year’s final Fudd scored 3 pts and Ducharme scored 9. Same in your face defensive strategy we saw yesterday made UConn’s guards struggle last year. Unless UConn devises a better offensive scheme to get open shots for their 3 point shooters (which they may) don’t expect a different result.

You’re kidding right.
Azzi was throwing up sick prior to the NC game and could not play through it.
She could be as talented offensively as Caitlin Clark if her body would hold up. She opened this season when healthy putting up 30 a game and as Geno stated - has the full package.
Pull up’s and penetrating.
Those team is very different than last year
Azzi did not play most of the game
Aubrey did not play
Niki did not play much
Dorka did not play.
If Dorka steps up in the next game and get a bit more physical and scores her avg - we will win by 10

 

[Fore!]

Azzi was sick last year. She didn't even play in the second half.

Azzi played 16 minutes and took 3 shots (2 were 3’s and made 1); CD in 22 minutes took 3 3’s made 1; Christyn Williams 3 3’s in 23 minutes made 0; Westbrook was 0 for 5 from 3 in 19 minutes; Paige was 1 for 3 from 3 in 39 minutes. Was 25% from 3 just the result of a poor shooting night or did the SC defense play a role in it?

Yesterday UConn took only 6 3’s and made 2 so you have to give SC’s defensive scheme credit. Even with , CD and LLS open 3’s will be tough to come by.