SB LV. Who You Got?

[Rocktheworld]

"Will Doug Flutie (5'10), Fran Tarkenton(5'11), Drew Brees(6'0), and Michael Vick(6'0)....please pick up on the white courtesy phone".

Fluite LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and Vick ain’t much less bad than that reach

Brees isn’t the worst one to point to, is this some counter point though? I’m talking about the general concept of to what degree “changing the game” factors into one’s legacy as a GOAT. Many here appear to rely on it greatly. One athlete has all the success but never did anything to change the game or how the position is played; the other has relatively less overall success, but is still a champion, and whose play has caused change in the league. How not-close-to-Brady is someone like that? If you have to use Brees as an example fine; he and Russell have had roughly similar individual and team success.

 

[Dean Wormer]

Fluite LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and Vick ain’t much less bad than that reach

Brees isn’t the worst one to point to, is this some counter point though? I’m talking about the general concept of to what degree “changing the game” factors into one’s legacy as a GOAT. Many here appear to rely on it greatly. One athlete has all the success but never did anything to change the game or how the position is played; the other has relatively less overall success, but is still a champion, and whose play has caused change in the league. How not-close-to-Brady is someone like that? If you have to use Brees as an example fine; he and Russell have had roughly similar individual and team success.

No. You stated that Russell Wilson "broke the mold of the traditional 6'4 pocket passer", and I guess that was your counter for someone who "changed" the game. First of all, that's not a good example since Russell Wilson is great but nowhere near a transformational player. My bringing up those names was to show that they've been plenty of other QB's under 6'4 who've had similar success in the NFL. So game-changer? Nuh-uh.
This isn't that difficult a concept really. Magic Johnson changed the PG position, why? Because he was 6'9 and maybe the greatest passer of all-time. Kevin Garnett changed the center position, why? Because he revolutionized it to where nowadays every big man wants to shoot from 3. In fact its almost a prerequisite for a big these days.
In order to be in position to change the game, you first have to be a great great player, generational even. How we got here was that Aaron Donald was being put into that class, and he simply doesn't belong, yet.
As for GOAT status, that comes with longevity and like it or not, championships. Brady was finally looked at as the GOAT after he passed Montana's 5 rings. It's not always fair but how they perform in big games is a factor in getting GOAT status.

 

[Rocktheworld]

No. You stated that Russell Wilson "broke the mold of the traditional 6'4 pocket passer", and I guess that was your counter for someone who "changed" the game. First of all, that's not a good example since Russell Wilson is great but nowhere near a transformational player. My bringing up those names was to show that they've been plenty of other QB's under 6'4 who've had similar success in the NFL. So game-changer? Nuh-uh.
This isn't that difficult a concept really. Magic Johnson changed the PG position, why? Because he was 6'9 and maybe the greatest passer of all-time. Kevin Garnett changed the center position, why? Because he revolutionized it to where nowadays every big man wants to shoot from 3. In fact its almost a prerequisite for a big these days.
In order to be in position to change the game, you first have to be a great great player, generational even. How we got here was that Aaron Donald was being put into that class, and he simply doesn't belong, yet.
As for GOAT status, that comes with longevity and like it or not, championships. Brady was finally looked at as the GOAT after he passed Montana's 5 rings. It's not always fair but how they perform in big games is a factor in getting GOAT status.

It’s harder to break down a post into multiple quotes now but here we go

There clearly aren’t many QBs outside of the traditional mold that have been successful when Flutie is one of the first three names you go to lol, I guess we can just agree to disagree on how different quarterbacks look now as a result of Russell’s success and to some degree Brees (there is a race factor too that we can ignore).

You’re stretching again. Magic and KG are weak examples of changing anything. Power forwards weren’t trying to become point guards because of Magic, and I have no idea where you got this notion that KG was some pioneer and on the perimeter. Magic was particularly tall for a PG and KG was a particularly skilled big, and each reaped advantages as it pertained to their individual play; but neither changed their positions.

I’m over this though, have a good thread

 

[Dean Wormer]

It’s harder to break down a post into multiple quotes now but here we go

There clearly aren’t many QBs outside of the traditional mold that have been successful when Flutie is one of the first three names you go to lol, I guess we can just agree to disagree on how different quarterbacks look now as a result of Russell’s success and to some degree Brees (there is a race factor too that we can ignore).

You’re stretching again. Magic and KG are weak examples of changing anything. Power forwards weren’t trying to become point guards because of Magic, and I have no idea where you got this notion that KG was some pioneer and on the perimeter. Magic was particularly tall for a PG and KG was a particularly skilled big, and each reaped advantages as it pertained to their individual play; but neither changed their positions.

I’m over this though, have a good thread

Agree to disagree just about says it all. Peace out.

 

[superjohn]

Didn’t help much sorry, but thanks

Russell Wilson broke the mold of the traditional 6’4 pocket passer. Not sure we had many baseball-playing quarterbacks before him either. Neither Baker nor Kyler Murray go #1 without Russell being successful.

Umm Steve Young, Steve McNair, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb...

 

[Chin Diesel]

No. You stated that Russell Wilson "broke the mold of the traditional 6'4 pocket passer", and I guess that was your counter for someone who "changed" the game. First of all, that's not a good example since Russell Wilson is great but nowhere near a transformational player. My bringing up those names was to show that they've been plenty of other QB's under 6'4 who've had similar success in the NFL. So game-changer? Nuh-uh.
This isn't that difficult a concept really. Magic Johnson changed the PG position, why? Because he was 6'9 and maybe the greatest passer of all-time. Kevin Garnett changed the center position, why? Because he revolutionized it to where nowadays every big man wants to shoot from 3. In fact its almost a prerequisite for a big these days.
In order to be in position to change the game, you first have to be a great great player, generational even. How we got here was that Aaron Donald was being put into that class, and he simply doesn't belong, yet.
As for GOAT status, that comes with longevity and like it or not, championships. Brady was finally looked at as the GOAT after he passed Montana's 5 rings. It's not always fair but how they perform in big games is a factor in getting GOAT status.

Montana had and still only has four SB rings.

 

[Dean Wormer]

Montana had and still only has four SB rings.

Steve Young picked up that last one. I stand corrected.