Samson Johnson - The Value of Waiting Your Turn. Will the Fab Five Follow the Model? What Say You?

[businesslawyer]

Give the kids time to develop they might not be at certain people’s expectations but it’s much too early to call any of them a disappointment before even playing 10 games …the one thing we know is that Hurley usually has a very good read on his team and what needs to be done. While everyone was panicking last offseason Hurley had a blueprint that brought us a championship…..let’s let things play out a bit

It's like you don't know us at all any more.

You are, obviously, 100% correct, but unfortunately that's not how life in the internet age works.

 

[Tenspro2002]

The freshman have been a disappointment. They have no idea how to make their court time valuable -- and that includes Ball. Solo still rushes everything and that leads to terrible shooting. Steward comes in hunts the three and misses it. Ross is trying to absorb the game but looks lost. Hopefully we start to get something -anything- out of them by the new year.

Maybe when Castle comes back Solo will feel less pressure in a smaller role and just let the game flow.

Have to agree so far. Castle will obviously have a big role. Ball, by default if nothing else, will be the first or second guard off the bench.

A question coming in to this season was, "which freshman out of Stewart or Ross will assert themselves to be the 9th guy in the rotation?" and the answer so far is "neither."

At this point I expect us to roll with 7 players against Kansas and with 8 once Castle gets back, and I could even see Ball get squeezed down to 5-10 mpg in the latter scenario.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

When did a guy ever wait 3 years to play?

Under Calhoun, if you were going to be good you contributed early.

It’s different now because we are very loaded to the point where we just don’t have minutes for everyone but freshman consistently struggling like this when they do play is not normal.

You don’t have to be a 5* player to have an impact. Our history shows that.

 

[husky429]

With the exception of Castle, and to a lesser exent, Ball, The Fab 5 moniker raised expectations to completely unreasonable levels for "casual fans" who haven't been closely watching the HS video and early-season video.

That being said, I'm seeing signs of slow progress for Ball and Stewart. Flashes here-and-there for Ross/Singare.

The really good news is that it seems like there may be more opportunities to play the freshmen for significantly more minutes than originally expected during our Big East conference games. The pre-season expectations for team quality for DePaul, G'Town, Xavier (b/c of injuries), and maybe even St. Johns now appear to be significantly overhyped.

There seems like there will be a clear division of team quality in the BE and we'll likely get some cupcake-type blowout games to continue to get valuable minutes for our bench players throughout Dec-Jan-Feb.

All but the most talented freshman should have (and probably do) expected limited minutes. Hurley isn't promising minutes.

If Ross/Stewart/Singare wanted to start and play 25mpg somewhere, they could have committed to Depaul or Butler. They didn't, because they believed in their own ability to develop and earn PT. They won't get the same level of coaching or NBA talent to compete against in practice anywhere else.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Jeremy Lamb, Shabazz Napier, Roscoe Smith, Amida Brimah, Rashad Anderson, Dehnam Brown, Marcus Williams, Ryan Boatright, Jeff Adrien, Omar Calhoun, etc.

I’m purposefully leaving out some legends and the 5* guys. But all of those names and so many more had freshman years where they made significant impacts.

You will be hard pressed to find a single guy who struggled, didn’t play, and made something of themselves. The Hilton and Deandre examples started a lot of games.

I’m not sure where people are getting this all freshman struggle and don’t contribute narrative from. That couldn’t be further from the truth for this program.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Jeremy Lamb, Shabazz Napier, Roscoe Smith, Amida Brimah, Rashad Anderson, Dehnam Brown, Marcus Williams, Ryan Boatright, Jeff Adrien, Omar Calhoun, etc.

I’m purposefully leaving out some legends and the 5* guys. But all of those names and so many more had freshman years where they made significant impacts.

You will be hard pressed to find a single guy who struggled, didn’t play, and made something of themselves. The Hilton and Deandre examples started a lot of games.

I’m not sure where people are getting this all freshman struggle and don’t contribute narrative from. That couldn’t be further from the truth for this program.

What are you going for? I can't tell if there's someone whose posts I can't see that you're arguing with. Is "freshman consistently struggling like this when they do play is not normal" you panicking about the freshman class?

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

What are you going for? I can't tell if there's someone whose posts I can't see that you're arguing with. Is "freshman consistently struggling like this when they do play is not normal" you panicking about the freshman class?

I’m not panicking. Guys will be fine once they have bigger and defined roles just like Hawkins.

The tone of this thread is that this is common though for guys to not contribute much their freshman year. And that just couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

[AdamaNation]

Hard to know you’re going to come in for a very short time but also know you need to impress. They will learn and grow from this, or they won’t. It will be interesting to see these kids mature.

Let’s be honest if they don’t the portal will be monstrous for the staff next year.

Ball=andre in Milwaukee. Make the most of it.

 

[MDHuskFan]

Jeremy Lamb, Shabazz Napier, Roscoe Smith, Amida Brimah, Rashad Anderson, Dehnam Brown, Marcus Williams, Ryan Boatright, Jeff Adrien, Omar Calhoun, etc.

I’m purposefully leaving out some legends and the 5* guys. But all of those names and so many more had freshman years where they made significant impacts.

You will be hard pressed to find a single guy who struggled, didn’t play, and made something of themselves. The Hilton and Deandre examples started a lot of games.

I’m not sure where people are getting this all freshman struggle and don’t contribute narrative from. That couldn’t be further from the truth for this program.

We’re talking about 7 games into the season. Boat, Marcus, etc were exceptional as freshmen. But Bazz & Lamb are remembered for their great end of season play. They weren’t world beaters at the start of the season.

Imo it’s too early to call them disappointments (not saying you specifically, just saw others comment it) based off such a small sample size

 

[HU5KIES]

Samuel Johnson, 8 rebounds and 10 points in 18 minutes. How long are his arms? His arm popped up out of nowhere a couple of times yesterday to come up with the ball over other players who were jumping. Big man rebounding is pretty pretty good for us.

Samuel L Johnson

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

We’re talking about 7 games into the season. Boat, Marcus, etc were exceptional as freshmen. But Bazz & Lamb are remembered for their great end of season play. They weren’t world beaters at the start of the season.

Imo it’s too early to call them disappointments (not saying you specifically, just saw others comment it) based off such a small sample size

Lamb had his struggles 7 games in but Bazz had 12 points 4 assists and 2 steals against Kentucky during Maui.

I don’t think these freshman will step up like they did because they won’t have the playing times or roles like those guys to allow them some runway and room to fail to get adjusted.

If there’s something I wish Hurley could improve, it’s having freshmen feel more confident, involved, and ready to contribute right away.

 

[MexicoHusky]

Samson Johnson is an example of what used to make college hoops so great. Seeing a player develop through all four years. He waited his turn. Problem is this doesn't happen anymore. It is the exception rather than the rule. That's why it is so refreshing and validates Hurley's "management" of player expectations. (Keeping Johnson may be one of his greatest recruiting moves.) Can we expect the Fab Five to follow suit? So tough in today's portal/NIL world. Ross, Stewart and Singare are't getting a lot of burn in these blow out games. Ball is getting major minutes and Castle is Castle - NBA bound. The body language on the three previosuly mentioned of the Fab Five wasn't great last night. May be nothing but something to watch. They can learn from Joh nson and how he worked and patiently waited for his opportunity.

Im glad Samson is playing well but our best players traditionally dont wait a lot. We certainly have some. Hilton is proabably the best example. But our best dont wait much. Im sure this comment will annoy. Im not s****ing on Samson. More of a criticism of the wish that things were like "the good old days"

 

[HooperScooper]

Samuel Johnson, 8 rebounds and 10 points in 18 minutes. How long are his arms? His arm popped up out of nowhere a couple of times yesterday to come up with the ball over other players who were jumping. Big man rebounding is pretty pretty good for us.

Man, another speech to text poster. I wonder if you can program the software to recognize certain names. Anyone work at Nuance Communications and know if that's possible?

 

[jibsey]

Man, another speech to text poster. I wonder if you can program the software to recognize certain names. Anyone work at Nuance Communications and know if that's possible?

Spell check, but no check by me I guess for Samson. I am amazed that these spell check changes by the iPad get such attention. I’m willing to pay a fine.

 

[MexicoHusky]

Lamb had his struggles 7 games in but Bazz had 12 points 4 assists and 2 steals against Kentucky during Maui.

I don’t think these freshman will step up like they did because they won’t have the playing times or roles like those guys to allow them some runway and room to fail to get adjusted.

If there’s something I wish Hurley could improve, it’s having freshmen feel more confident, involved, and ready to contribute right away.

Does DH need to imrpove on this? 2 years ago DH played basically played none of the freshmen but Hawkins. Followed by a bunch of unsurprising transfers. The same offseason DH absolutely crushed the transfer portal and we won the NC. It looks like DH picked another diamond in the rough in Spencer.

Once the tranfer portal era began i wondered if it made sense to continue focusing on freshman. When a transfer is often a more known commidity.

Edit: im a horrible person. I referred to a teanage kid as a commodity

 

[husky429]

Does DH need to imrpove on this? 2 years ago DH played basically played none of the freshmen but Hawkins. Followed by a bunch of unsurprising transfers. The same offseason DH absolutely crushed the transfer portal and we won the NC. It looks like DH picked another diamond in the rough in Spencer.

Once the tranfer portal era began i wondered if it made sense to continue focusing on freshman. When a transfer is often a more known commidity.

Need both. Homegrown players are often going to be your best (Hawkins, Andre, Sanogo, Clingan, Karaban) but transfers can be used to fill specific needs when you need guaranteed performance.

 

[MDHuskFan]

Lamb had his struggles 7 games in but Bazz had 12 points 4 assists and 2 steals against Kentucky during Maui.

I don’t think these freshman will step up like they did because they won’t have the playing times or roles like those guys to allow them some runway and room to fail to get adjusted.

If there’s something I wish Hurley could improve, it’s having freshmen feel more confident, involved, and ready to contribute right away.

Thru first 7

Bazz 9/1.4/2/34.5%/2 To 24 mpg
Lamb 5.7/4.7/1.1/40%/1.4 TO 21 mpg

Solo 6/2.7/1/32%/.4 TO’s in 24 mpg

Solo isn’t shooting or scoring well. But he’s not far off that well regarded freshmen class & there’s def things to like here. While he isn’t shooting well, he’s also not turning the ball over like some freshmen normally do. Hoping as the season goes along, the confidence goes too.

 

[MexicoHusky]

Need both. Homegrown players are often going to be your best (Hawkins, Andre, Sanogo, Clingan, Karaban) but transfers can be used to fill specific needs when you need guaranteed performance.

Yes obviouly we need both. Just wondering if we should be playing guys who arent ready to play. Developing players that are not impact players and may never be.

I dont follow recruiting much. I assumed all those guys who transferred were potentially solid players and DH was wasting an opportunity to develop them. But after leaving none of them really exploded off the chart or became huge stars. Its possible DH read the room right. He sat them all.... let them leave... then upgraded the team partly through the portal.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

The freshman have been a disappointment. They have no idea how to make their court time valuable -- and that includes Ball. Solo still rushes everything and that leads to terrible shooting. Steward comes in hunts the three and misses it. Ross is trying to absorb the game but looks lost. Hopefully we start to get something -anything- out of them by the new year.

Maybe when Castle comes back Solo will feel less pressure in a smaller role and just let the game flow.

I don't understand how you can watch our freshman and come away with this take. Castle in his limited time has been impactful, we've seen Solo step into a role he wasn't meant for and do well, he seems very confident in his game. Stewart has impressed me with his off ball movement and willingness to play team ball. I see it with Ross too he has a very bright future. We have a ton of veteran leadership and the freshman will find their place behind them in the system. Singare hasn't spent enough time on the floor for me to have an opinion but he's operating behind the best frontcourt in country.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

Samuel L Johnson

 

[HuskyHawk]

We’re talking about 7 games into the season. Boat, Marcus, etc were exceptional as freshmen. But Bazz & Lamb are remembered for their great end of season play. They weren’t world beaters at the start of the season.

Imo it’s too early to call them disappointments (not saying you specifically, just saw others comment it) based off such a small sample size

We may also remember that aside from Auburn, Hawkins couldn't buy a basket, his ball handling was comically bad, and his defense wasn't much better. By end of the year, you could see the improvement in all phases.

Freshmen can contribute, but I think we all need to re-evaluate what that means in the portal era. On deep teams that can bring in experienced players via the portal, freshmen are going to have to be very good to carve out a big role. If they don't play much, it doesn't mean that they won't become major contributors. Not anymore.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Thru first 7

Bazz 9/1.4/2/34.5%/2 To 24 mpg
Lamb 5.7/4.7/1.1/40%/1.4 TO 21 mpg

Solo 6/2.7/1/32%/.4 TO’s in 24 mpg

Solo isn’t shooting or scoring well. But he’s not far off that well regarded freshmen class & there’s def things to like here. While he isn’t shooting well, he’s also not turning the ball over like some freshmen normally do. Hoping as the season goes along, the confidence goes too.

Trust there’s a lot I love about Solo’s game. Just feel like he could be playing better offensively with some tweaks.

Part of the reason he isn’t turning the ball over either is because he looks scared most of the time to do anything besides catch shoot or catch and pass. One thing about most of those other guys, Calhoun made sure they played fearless and weren’t afraid to make mistakes. Part of the reason Bazz had all those turnovers and same with Boatright and Kemba. But it was the price to go along with them playing fearlessly, confidently, and growing. Can’t learn playing scared.

 

[Waquoit]

Yes obviouly we need both. Just wondering if we should be playing guys who arent ready to play. Developing players that are not impact players and may never be.

That's the Bruce Pearl philosophy. "Why should I develop guys for the next coach?" I hope we never go there. It's a betrayal of the player.

 

[Hunt for 7]

I would be OK with Apostolos taking more of Ross’s minutes. He looks a lot better so far this season.

And he is also the fourth tallest player player we have behind DC, SJ and Singare. He got a rebound last night and it gave you a sense as to how tall and long he actually is. I don’t get why he has not been given more run. I am guessing it has to be defense.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Trust there’s a lot I love about Solo’s game. Just feel like he could be playing better offensively with some tweaks.

Part of the reason he isn’t turning the ball over either is because he looks scared most of the time to do anything besides catch shoot or catch and pass. One thing about most of those other guys, Calhoun made sure they played fearless and weren’t afraid to make mistakes. Part of the reason Bazz had all those turnovers and same with Boatright and Kemba. But it was the price to go along with them playing fearlessly, confidently, and growing. Can’t learn playing scared.

If there's one thing Calhoun was known for it was letting young guys play through mistakes!!