Samson Invited To The Portsmouth Invitational

[REB1094]

All I know is he better befriend the point guards and all the teammates who can throw alley-oops. Use some NIL or whatever he needs to do because he's got to show he can score even if its his one and only trick.

The invitational is already over. Based on what happened in 2022 (when Tyrese went through it), certain players should find out in early May if they will be invited to the G League Elite camp

Samson averaged 7.3 PPG and 6.7 RPG shooting 56%, but his team went 0-3

Doesn’t feel like that’s enough to secure a spot, but I’m not 100% sure how these things work. So I guess we’ll see!

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Unless you've shown years of excellence to be given the room to grow your game like Sanogo, being a 5 in our system only allows you to play one way.

Our coaches weren't going to let Johnson expand his game to show off 4 capabilities off the bench or in his one season of starting without perfecting being a 5 first. Its what they did with Clingan and also do with Reed.

I actually love that approach when developing a 5 to make sure they are great at the fundamentals. Johnson just wasn't meant to be a 5.

I think you’re misunderstanding my point. Tarris isn’t chucking up threes but he shows a lot more offensive skill than Samson, which the team incorporates into what he does as a 5. The staff utilized Samson’s ability within the offense well but i wouldn’t exactly call it high skill. He’s super athletic but has a very limited bag of moves, can’t really handle the ball or face up, etc. I find it really hard to believe that had he not gotten injured and played some more at the four (seems pretty obvious in hindsight that Karaban would have ended up getting the bulk of the PT), that would have had a good shot at developing him into an NBA four. The level of development needed there is so far beyond what you almost ever see. I just don’t think that was realistic.

 

[Dove]

Love Samson. Praying he has a great Invitational.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I think you’re misunderstanding my point. Tarris isn’t chucking up threes but he shows a lot more offensive skill than Samson, which the team incorporates into what he does as a 5. The staff utilized Samson’s ability within the offense well but i wouldn’t exactly call it high skill. He’s super athletic but has a very limited bag of moves, can’t really handle the ball or face up, etc. I find it really hard to believe that had he not gotten injured and played some more at the four (seems pretty obvious in hindsight that Karaban would have ended up getting the bulk of the PT), that would have had a good shot at developing him into an NBA four. The level of development needed there is so far beyond what you almost ever see. I just don’t think that was realistic.

Tarris skill is post related so that makes sense.

I don't think the staff ever thinks about starting Samson at the 4 if he never showed some perimeter skills. Skills that would not help the team at the 5.

 

[HuskyHawk]

His rebounding goes up when he’s not 25 feet away from the basket high hedging

True. But I'll say this, that high hedging has made him into a much more effective perimeter defender, a big who can guard multiple positions.

If Samson can develop that 3 point shot he took more regularly in HS, plus add more muscle, he can carve out a role. At the very least he should have a long career in Europe.

 

[Chief00]

True. But I'll say this, that high hedging has made him into a much more effective perimeter defender, a big who can guard multiple positions.

If Samson can develop that 3 point shot he took more regularly in HS, plus add more muscle, he can carve out a role. At the very least he should have a long career in Europe.

I don’t question Samson’s effort, aggressiveness or athleticism. He is also a fine person. I also recognized he started the game much later than many of his teammates, so some of my criticisms should be expected.
But, he was not effective defensively on the High Hedge. He average 2.9 fouls a game playing 19.3 minutes. Translated to 40 minutes, he would have 6.01 fouls per game. That’s not an illustration of someone who is making good defensive decisions but rather someone putting the other team into the early penalty and part of the many reasons we took 157 less foul shots than our opponents.
In the post Samson is still learning not to go for the first fake and to also position himself defensively to rebound. Reed did that much better than Johnson, with 160 defensive rebounds to 73 for Johnson. Reed had 87 defensive rebounds more or 119% more,with similar minutes.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don’t question Samson’s effort, aggressiveness or athleticism. He is also a fine person. I also recognized he started the game much later than many of his teammates, so some of my criticisms should be expected.
But, he was not effective defensively on the High Hedge. He average 2.9 fouls a game playing 19.3 minutes. Translated to 40 minutes, he would have 6.01 fouls per game. That’s not an illustration of someone who is making good defensive decisions but rather someone putting the other team into the early penalty and part of the many reasons we took 157 less foul shots than our opponents.
In the post Samson is still learning not to go for the first fake and to also position himself defensively to rebound. Reed did that much better than Johnson, with 160 defensive rebounds to 73 for Johnson. Reed had 87 defensive rebounds more or 119%, with similar minutes.

Ok, but Reed was the best rebounder in the league. He's an elite rebounder. Samson is a 4 pressed into playing a rim runner 5 role. Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed. I have little doubt that Reed will be a foul machine now in a starting role.

There are guys that just aren't great rebounders, sometimes guys who you think should be great rebounders. Samson's leaping quickness should make him elite at it, but the timing isn't there nor are the hands. KJ Adams at Kansas frustrated me for the same reason. Physically, he's basically Denis Rodman and yet he couldn't rebound worth a damn.

 

[Chief00]

Ok, but Reed was the best rebounder in the league. He's an elite rebounder. Samson is a 4 pressed into playing a rim runner 5 role. Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed. I have little doubt that Reed will be a foul machine now in a starting role.

There are guys that just aren't great rebounders, sometimes guys who you think should be great rebounders. Samson's leaping quickness should make him elite at it, but the timing isn't there nor are the hands. KJ Adams at Kansas frustrated me for the same reason. Physically, he's basically Denis Rodman and yet he couldn't rebound worth a damn.

We will agree to disagree but I thought much of Samson’s rebound issues related to him being in poor position, which also added to his over the back fouls. I also think that Reed is a superior offensive player and I thought against good teams our offense was much better with him in the game ( but I have not seen numbers on that). Reed did average 2 points more per game for what that is worth.
At any rate, I wish Samson well, he’s a great kid as is Reed.

 

[Gurleyman]

Ok, but Reed was the best rebounder in the league. He's an elite rebounder. Samson is a 4 pressed into playing a rim runner 5 role. Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed. I have little doubt that Reed will be a foul machine now in a starting role.

There are guys that just aren't great rebounders, sometimes guys who you think should be great rebounders. Samson's leaping quickness should make him elite at it, but the timing isn't there nor are the hands. KJ Adams at Kansas frustrated me for the same reason. Physically, he's basically Denis Rodman and yet he couldn't rebound worth a damn.

I think - or hope - there's a little bit of "back-up center syndrome" at play with Reed this past year. Basically, the refs sometimes let the starters play and whale away on each other, and then when a back-up big comes in, they start calling soft fouls to try to tighten things up again.

Years ago, this was known as Greg Kite Syndrome - he would have three fouls during pregame intros from high-fiving his teammates.

 

[Inyatkin]

We will agree to disagree but I thought much of Samson’s rebound issues related to him being in poor position, which also added to his over the back fouls. I also think that Reed is a superior offensive player and I thought against good teams our offense was much better with him in the game ( but I have not seen numbers on that). Reed did average 2 points more per game for what that is worth.
At any rate, I wish Samson well, he’s a great kid as is Reed.

If you honestly wish him well, you will stop making the same point about his supposed deficiencies that you have made at least 100 times already. He's no longer a part of the program, let it go

 

[Chief00]

If you honestly wish him well, you will stop making the same point about his supposed deficiencies that you have made at least 100 times already. He's no longer a part of the program, let it go

I said we will agree to disagree. Seems like the data/logic has proven you wrong so your approach is now all about feelings. As I said a few times I know and like Samson and attribute some of his poor in the moment basketball decision making to learning the game late.

 

[Fan1978]

He'll at least get some workouts with some teams. I'm confident in that

And he is comfortable playing far from the rim on defense from all his high hedging experience

 

[Inyatkin]

I said we will agree to disagree. Seems like the data/logic has proven you wrong so your approach is now all about feelings. As I said a few times I know and like Samson and attribute some of his poor in the moment basketball decision making to learning the game late.

Ooh, tell us more about the high hedge, would you?

 

[CL82]

Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed.

Based on what? I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I would like to see that metric. In my mind's eye, both had their moments, but it seemed like Reed, had the better offensive game. He was more of a true back to the basket guy. Whereas Samson's offensive games seemed more opportunistic with the alley oops, and fortuitous put back.

 

[Inyatkin]

Based on what? I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I would like to see that metric. In my mind's eye, both had their moments, but it seemed like Reed, had the better offensive game. He was more of a true back to the basket guy. Whereas Samson's offensive games seemed more opportunistic with the alley oops, and fortuitous put back.

There were a bunch of those nerd sites that had our most efficient three-man groups and whatnot that all showed us better with Samson on the floor than not.
I like Reed, but the way people talked on this board you'd think Hurley started and played Johnson for sentimental reasons or as a good luck charm. He was a key part of our team.

 

[CL82]

Ooh, tell us more about the high hedge, would you?

Meh, he's not wrong about it contributing to fouls away from the basket and leaving us vulnerable to a quick dump down, pass to the opposing big for an easy bucket. Those things are incredibly frustrating as a fan. On the other hand, Hurley believes that it's disruptive impact on opposing offenses more than offset the negatives, and Hurley is a two time national championship coach, so he has at least a modicum of credibility.

Another comment for what it's worth is that Samson typically looked for the block rather than boxing out and grabbing the rebound. When it worked, it was spectacular and potentially momentum shifting. When it didn't, it was frustrating because it typically led to either an easy put back or having the team be forced to defend for another 20 seconds. I have to believe that it is disheartening to do an outstanding job on defense, only that have to do it again because we couldn't get a rebound.

Now, he did those things because the coaching staff believed that that maximized his value to the team. I'm just not sure that they translate well to the next level. That said, like the rest of us, I'm rooting for him. He seemed like a great guy and gave us a lot of exciting moments as fans.

 

[CL82]

There were a bunch of those nerd sites that had our most efficient three-man groups and whatnot that all showed us better with Samson on the floor than not.
I like Reed, but the way people talked on this board you'd think Hurley started and played Johnson for sentimental reasons or as a good luck charm. He was a key part of our team.

And that is why metrics are better than memories.

When Reed came in I always felt like there was potential for us to go on a mini run as people adapted to the change of style. It felt like Reed, would come in and dominate the paint for at least a few possessions.

None of that is a knock against Samson by the way. As I noted in my other post, he made a ton of great plays that got me on my feet yelling. I absolutely wish him well.

 

[ctchamps]

And that is why metrics are better than memories.

When Reed came in I always felt like there was potential for us to go on a mini run as people adapted to the change of style. It felt like Reed, would come in and dominate the paint for at least a few possessions.

None of that is a knock against Samson by the way. As I noted in my other post, he made a ton of great place that got me on my feet yelling. I absolutely wish him well.

Samson and Reed both suffered from a horrible passing team. But Reed could iso his defender and muscle a basket.

If this year’s version of Samson had Tristen, Cam and Stephon Samson would have scored a lot more. He was nearly unstoppable.

 

[Palatine]

I don’t question Samson’s effort, aggressiveness or athleticism. He is also a fine person. I also recognized he started the game much later than many of his teammates, so some of my criticisms should be expected.
But, he was not effective defensively on the High Hedge. He average 2.9 fouls a game playing 19.3 minutes. Translated to 40 minutes, he would have 6.01 fouls per game. That’s not an illustration of someone who is making good defensive decisions but rather someone putting the other team into the early penalty and part of the many reasons we took 157 less foul shots than our opponents.
In the post Samson is still learning not to go for the first fake and to also position himself defensively to rebound. Reed did that much better than Johnson, with 160 defensive rebounds to 73 for Johnson. Reed had 87 defensive rebounds more or 119% more,with similar minutes.

Saying Samson was not effective playing the high hedge, when he was used extensively playing this defense on a team that won two national championships is not really really defensible. The numbers are the numbers. The results are the results. Clearly two time national championship coach Dan Hurley disagrees with your assessment.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Samson and Reed both suffered from a horrible passing team. But Reed could iso his defender and muscle a basket.

If this year’s version of Samson had Tristen, Cam and Stephon Samson would have scored a lot more. He was nearly unstoppable.

With Tristen, Cam, and Steph I could have put up 10 pts a game. Ok, maybe 8.

 

[Chief00]

Saying Samson was not effective playing the high hedge, when he was used extensively playing this defense on a team that won two national championships is not really really defensible. The numbers are the numbers. The results are the results. Clearly two time national championship coach Dan Hurley disagrees with your assessment.

And how many rings does Tyler Olander have? Why the hedge and generally everything worked in the prior two seasons was the 4th, 7th and 14th picks in the draft, plus having a backcourt of Newton, Castle, Hawkins, and Spencer worked for the hedge. Everyone is part of a NC from the team managers to the cheerleaders but drawing the conclusions you do is a reach. The reason why the hedge disappointed this season was to it being without the guys who succeeded in it - that’s my point.

 

[ctchamps]

And how many rings does Tyler Olander have? Why the hedge and generally everything worked in the prior two seasons was the 4th, 7th and 14th picks in the draft, plus having a backcourt of Newton, Castle, Hawkins, and Spencer worked for the hedge. Everyone is part of a NC from the team managers to the cheerleaders but drawing the conclusions you do is a reach. The reason why the hedge disappointed this season without the guys who succeeded in it - makes my point.

Worked really well in the Florida game. A major reason Florida’s offense was disrupted for most of the game.

Shame our shooters couldn’t make their open threes.

Shame the rest of the team needed the entire season to figure things out. Samson did his part well. He figured things out mid season His foul rate went down considerably as the season progressed.

 

[Windham4th]

He will play a decade or more on another continent

 

[mauconnfan]

There is no doubt Samson played the hedge better than Reed and actually Tarris shouldn’t be asked to do the same it makes no sense not the same player. But overall defensively depending on matchups they both had their strengths and weaknesses defensively. Space eating was Reeds positive and in turn he is a much better defensive rebounder which should be part of the formula. As far as offensively no doubt Reed was more impactful despite not getting the ball enough in scoring position, our interior passing needs to improve a lot.

Johnson was a great back up 5 we couldn’t ask for much better than what the kid gave us and the resilience he showed. I’m sure he’s going to make a nice living overseas with his talents.

 

[Chief00]

Worked really well in the Florida game. A major reason Florida’s offense was disrupted for most of the game.

Shame our shooters couldn’t make their open threes.

Shame the rest of the team needed the entire season to figure things out. Samson did his part well. He figured things out mid season His foul rate went down considerably as the season progressed.

I agree Samson had a good game against FL.