Samson Invited To The Portsmouth Invitational

[Chief00]

True. But I'll say this, that high hedging has made him into a much more effective perimeter defender, a big who can guard multiple positions.

If Samson can develop that 3 point shot he took more regularly in HS, plus add more muscle, he can carve out a role. At the very least he should have a long career in Europe.

I don’t question Samson’s effort, aggressiveness or athleticism. He is also a fine person. I also recognized he started the game much later than many of his teammates, so some of my criticisms should be expected.
But, he was not effective defensively on the High Hedge. He average 2.9 fouls a game playing 19.3 minutes. Translated to 40 minutes, he would have 6.01 fouls per game. That’s not an illustration of someone who is making good defensive decisions but rather someone putting the other team into the early penalty and part of the many reasons we took 157 less foul shots than our opponents.
In the post Samson is still learning not to go for the first fake and to also position himself defensively to rebound. Reed did that much better than Johnson, with 160 defensive rebounds to 73 for Johnson. Reed had 87 defensive rebounds more or 119% more,with similar minutes.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don’t question Samson’s effort, aggressiveness or athleticism. He is also a fine person. I also recognized he started the game much later than many of his teammates, so some of my criticisms should be expected.
But, he was not effective defensively on the High Hedge. He average 2.9 fouls a game playing 19.3 minutes. Translated to 40 minutes, he would have 6.01 fouls per game. That’s not an illustration of someone who is making good defensive decisions but rather someone putting the other team into the early penalty and part of the many reasons we took 157 less foul shots than our opponents.
In the post Samson is still learning not to go for the first fake and to also position himself defensively to rebound. Reed did that much better than Johnson, with 160 defensive rebounds to 73 for Johnson. Reed had 87 defensive rebounds more or 119%, with similar minutes.

Ok, but Reed was the best rebounder in the league. He's an elite rebounder. Samson is a 4 pressed into playing a rim runner 5 role. Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed. I have little doubt that Reed will be a foul machine now in a starting role.

There are guys that just aren't great rebounders, sometimes guys who you think should be great rebounders. Samson's leaping quickness should make him elite at it, but the timing isn't there nor are the hands. KJ Adams at Kansas frustrated me for the same reason. Physically, he's basically Denis Rodman and yet he couldn't rebound worth a damn.

 

[Chief00]

Ok, but Reed was the best rebounder in the league. He's an elite rebounder. Samson is a 4 pressed into playing a rim runner 5 role. Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed. I have little doubt that Reed will be a foul machine now in a starting role.

There are guys that just aren't great rebounders, sometimes guys who you think should be great rebounders. Samson's leaping quickness should make him elite at it, but the timing isn't there nor are the hands. KJ Adams at Kansas frustrated me for the same reason. Physically, he's basically Denis Rodman and yet he couldn't rebound worth a damn.

We will agree to disagree but I thought much of Samson’s rebound issues related to him being in poor position, which also added to his over the back fouls. I also think that Reed is a superior offensive player and I thought against good teams our offense was much better with him in the game ( but I have not seen numbers on that). Reed did average 2 points more per game for what that is worth.
At any rate, I wish Samson well, he’s a great kid as is Reed.

 

[Gurleyman]

Ok, but Reed was the best rebounder in the league. He's an elite rebounder. Samson is a 4 pressed into playing a rim runner 5 role. Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed. I have little doubt that Reed will be a foul machine now in a starting role.

There are guys that just aren't great rebounders, sometimes guys who you think should be great rebounders. Samson's leaping quickness should make him elite at it, but the timing isn't there nor are the hands. KJ Adams at Kansas frustrated me for the same reason. Physically, he's basically Denis Rodman and yet he couldn't rebound worth a damn.

I think - or hope - there's a little bit of "back-up center syndrome" at play with Reed this past year. Basically, the refs sometimes let the starters play and whale away on each other, and then when a back-up big comes in, they start calling soft fouls to try to tighten things up again.

Years ago, this was known as Greg Kite Syndrome - he would have three fouls during pregame intros from high-fiving his teammates.

 

[Inyatkin]

We will agree to disagree but I thought much of Samson’s rebound issues related to him being in poor position, which also added to his over the back fouls. I also think that Reed is a superior offensive player and I thought against good teams our offense was much better with him in the game ( but I have not seen numbers on that). Reed did average 2 points more per game for what that is worth.
At any rate, I wish Samson well, he’s a great kid as is Reed.

If you honestly wish him well, you will stop making the same point about his supposed deficiencies that you have made at least 100 times already. He's no longer a part of the program, let it go

 

[Chief00]

If you honestly wish him well, you will stop making the same point about his supposed deficiencies that you have made at least 100 times already. He's no longer a part of the program, let it go

I said we will agree to disagree. Seems like the data/logic has proven you wrong so your approach is now all about feelings. As I said a few times I know and like Samson and attribute some of his poor in the moment basketball decision making to learning the game late.

 

[Fan1978]

He'll at least get some workouts with some teams. I'm confident in that

And he is comfortable playing far from the rim on defense from all his high hedging experience

 

[Inyatkin]

I said we will agree to disagree. Seems like the data/logic has proven you wrong so your approach is now all about feelings. As I said a few times I know and like Samson and attribute some of his poor in the moment basketball decision making to learning the game late.

Ooh, tell us more about the high hedge, would you?

 

[CL82]

Offensively, our metrics were much better with Samson on the floor than Reed.

Based on what? I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I would like to see that metric. In my mind's eye, both had their moments, but it seemed like Reed, had the better offensive game. He was more of a true back to the basket guy. Whereas Samson's offensive games seemed more opportunistic with the alley oops, and fortuitous put back.

 

[Inyatkin]

Based on what? I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I would like to see that metric. In my mind's eye, both had their moments, but it seemed like Reed, had the better offensive game. He was more of a true back to the basket guy. Whereas Samson's offensive games seemed more opportunistic with the alley oops, and fortuitous put back.

There were a bunch of those nerd sites that had our most efficient three-man groups and whatnot that all showed us better with Samson on the floor than not.
I like Reed, but the way people talked on this board you'd think Hurley started and played Johnson for sentimental reasons or as a good luck charm. He was a key part of our team.

 

[CL82]

Ooh, tell us more about the high hedge, would you?

Meh, he's not wrong about it contributing to fouls away from the basket and leaving us vulnerable to a quick dump down, pass to the opposing big for an easy bucket. Those things are incredibly frustrating as a fan. On the other hand, Hurley believes that it's disruptive impact on opposing offenses more than offset the negatives, and Hurley is a two time national championship coach, so he has at least a modicum of credibility.

Another comment for what it's worth is that Samson typically looked for the block rather than boxing out and grabbing the rebound. When it worked, it was spectacular and potentially momentum shifting. When it didn't, it was frustrating because it typically led to either an easy put back or having the team be forced to defend for another 20 seconds. I have to believe that it is disheartening to do an outstanding job on defense, only that have to do it again because we couldn't get a rebound.

Now, he did those things because the coaching staff believed that that maximized his value to the team. I'm just not sure that they translate well to the next level. That said, like the rest of us, I'm rooting for him. He seemed like a great guy and gave us a lot of exciting moments as fans.

 

[CL82]

There were a bunch of those nerd sites that had our most efficient three-man groups and whatnot that all showed us better with Samson on the floor than not.
I like Reed, but the way people talked on this board you'd think Hurley started and played Johnson for sentimental reasons or as a good luck charm. He was a key part of our team.

And that is why metrics are better than memories.

When Reed came in I always felt like there was potential for us to go on a mini run as people adapted to the change of style. It felt like Reed, would come in and dominate the paint for at least a few possessions.

None of that is a knock against Samson by the way. As I noted in my other post, he made a ton of great plays that got me on my feet yelling. I absolutely wish him well.

 

[ctchamps]

And that is why metrics are better than memories.

When Reed came in I always felt like there was potential for us to go on a mini run as people adapted to the change of style. It felt like Reed, would come in and dominate the paint for at least a few possessions.

None of that is a knock against Samson by the way. As I noted in my other post, he made a ton of great place that got me on my feet yelling. I absolutely wish him well.

Samson and Reed both suffered from a horrible passing team. But Reed could iso his defender and muscle a basket.

If this year’s version of Samson had Tristen, Cam and Stephon Samson would have scored a lot more. He was nearly unstoppable.

 

[Palatine]

I don’t question Samson’s effort, aggressiveness or athleticism. He is also a fine person. I also recognized he started the game much later than many of his teammates, so some of my criticisms should be expected.
But, he was not effective defensively on the High Hedge. He average 2.9 fouls a game playing 19.3 minutes. Translated to 40 minutes, he would have 6.01 fouls per game. That’s not an illustration of someone who is making good defensive decisions but rather someone putting the other team into the early penalty and part of the many reasons we took 157 less foul shots than our opponents.
In the post Samson is still learning not to go for the first fake and to also position himself defensively to rebound. Reed did that much better than Johnson, with 160 defensive rebounds to 73 for Johnson. Reed had 87 defensive rebounds more or 119% more,with similar minutes.

Saying Samson was not effective playing the high hedge, when he was used extensively playing this defense on a team that won two national championships is not really really defensible. The numbers are the numbers. The results are the results. Clearly two time national championship coach Dan Hurley disagrees with your assessment.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Samson and Reed both suffered from a horrible passing team. But Reed could iso his defender and muscle a basket.

If this year’s version of Samson had Tristen, Cam and Stephon Samson would have scored a lot more. He was nearly unstoppable.

With Tristen, Cam, and Steph I could have put up 10 pts a game. Ok, maybe 8.

 

[Chief00]

Saying Samson was not effective playing the high hedge, when he was used extensively playing this defense on a team that won two national championships is not really really defensible. The numbers are the numbers. The results are the results. Clearly two time national championship coach Dan Hurley disagrees with your assessment.

And how many rings does Tyler Olander have? Why the hedge and generally everything worked in the prior two seasons was the 4th, 7th and 14th picks in the draft, plus having a backcourt of Newton, Castle, Hawkins, and Spencer worked for the hedge. Everyone is part of a NC from the team managers to the cheerleaders but drawing the conclusions you do is a reach. The reason why the hedge disappointed this season was to it being without the guys who succeeded in it - that’s my point.

 

[ctchamps]

And how many rings does Tyler Olander have? Why the hedge and generally everything worked in the prior two seasons was the 4th, 7th and 14th picks in the draft, plus having a backcourt of Newton, Castle, Hawkins, and Spencer worked for the hedge. Everyone is part of a NC from the team managers to the cheerleaders but drawing the conclusions you do is a reach. The reason why the hedge disappointed this season without the guys who succeeded in it - makes my point.

Worked really well in the Florida game. A major reason Florida’s offense was disrupted for most of the game.

Shame our shooters couldn’t make their open threes.

Shame the rest of the team needed the entire season to figure things out. Samson did his part well. He figured things out mid season His foul rate went down considerably as the season progressed.

 

[Windham4th]

He will play a decade or more on another continent

 

[mauconnfan]

There is no doubt Samson played the hedge better than Reed and actually Tarris shouldn’t be asked to do the same it makes no sense not the same player. But overall defensively depending on matchups they both had their strengths and weaknesses defensively. Space eating was Reeds positive and in turn he is a much better defensive rebounder which should be part of the formula. As far as offensively no doubt Reed was more impactful despite not getting the ball enough in scoring position, our interior passing needs to improve a lot.

Johnson was a great back up 5 we couldn’t ask for much better than what the kid gave us and the resilience he showed. I’m sure he’s going to make a nice living overseas with his talents.

 

[Chief00]

Worked really well in the Florida game. A major reason Florida’s offense was disrupted for most of the game.

Shame our shooters couldn’t make their open threes.

Shame the rest of the team needed the entire season to figure things out. Samson did his part well. He figured things out mid season His foul rate went down considerably as the season progressed.

I agree Samson had a good game against FL.

 

[Chief00]

There is no doubt Samson played the hedge better than Reed and actually Tarris shouldn’t be asked to do the same it makes no sense not the same player. But overall defensively depending on matchups they both had their strengths and weaknesses defensively. Space eating was Reeds positive and in turn he is a much better defensive rebounder which should be part of the formula. As far as offensively no doubt Reed was more impactful despite not getting the ball enough in scoring position, our interior passing needs to improve a lot.

Johnson was a great back up 5 we couldn’t ask for much better than what the kid gave us and the resilience he showed. I’m sure he’s going to make a nice living overseas with his talents.

I agree and also believe for posters who love the extreme high hedge fantasy of a center overplaying a quick guard near half court - the reality is that our two starting centers our NC years were traditional paint centers (Adama and Donovan). Something for our wonderful Casual Fans not to lose sight of.

 

[auror]

I agree and also believe for posters who love the extreme high hedge fantasy of a center overplaying a quick guard near half court - the reality is that our two starting centers our NC years were traditional paint centers (Adama and Donovan). Something for our wonderful Casual Fans not to lose sight of.

Adama hedged on defense even if he was a traditional paint center on offense. Each of the champ years we had the 1-2 changeup of hedge guy (Adama, Samson) and drop guy (Clingan).

 

[ctchamps]

Adama hedged on defense even if he was a traditional paint center on offense. Each of the champ years we had the 1-2 changeup of hedge guy (Adama, Samson) and drop guy (Clingan).

On no! One of my favorite posters is about to be relegated to casual fan status.

 

[UconnU]

AI will not give me a straight answer on if Samson Johnson was the most efficient basketball player in college basketball history. There’s no one else I can find that comes close to his career 75 TS%.

 

[REB1094]

AI will not give me a straight answer on if Samson Johnson was the most efficient basketball player in college basketball history. There’s no one else I can find that comes close to his career 75 TS%.

He didn't score enough per game to qualify for this list, but he would have been #1

 

[Chief00]

Adama hedged on defense even if he was a traditional paint center on offense. Each of the champ years we had the 1-2 changeup of hedge guy (Adama, Samson) and drop guy (Clingan).

A Casual take.
Adama played the hedged completely different than Samson and the end result was he was in position to get defensive rebounds. Samson would actually overplay the hedge (play closer to half court than the screener). Donovan when he played it would wisely play under it (closer to the basket than the screener). Adama would play horizontal to it, which still enable him with his quick feet and strength to have post position. Samson’s hedging unfortunately put him in no man’s land and would trigger a chain reaction of everyone getting caught in between.

 

[Chief00]

He didn't score enough per game to qualify for this list, but he would have been #1

Samson’s offensive strength was rolling to the basket for lob dunks. He had an excellent skillset for that and of course dunks lead to high FG %.

 

[aceboon]

A Casual take.
Adama played the hedged completely different than Samson and the end result was he was in position to get defensive rebounds. Samson would actually overplay the hedge (play closer to half court than the screener). Donovan when he played it would wisely play under it (closer to the basket than the screener). Adama would play horizontal to it, which still enable him with his quick feet and strength to have post position. Samson’s hedging unfortunately put him in no man’s land and would trigger a chain reaction of everyone getting caught in between.

You can't label takes as "casual" when you literally don't know that Clingan was deployed in drop coverage and was not instructed to hedge.

 

[Inyatkin]

You can't label takes as "casual" when you literally don't know that Clingan was deployed in drop coverage and was not instructed to hedge.

Especially when the only thing he posts about lately is Samson Johnson and the high hedge.

Also, Andre Drummond's supposed whereabouts.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

This is the up and down environment where Samson can thrive. He has NBA size athleticism and instincts