Same old song and dance. If UConn was valuable then...

[Marty Jackson]

And I'm not a troll - just a frustrated fan who thinks it's time to open our eyes to the fact that we aren't in a P5 and are unlikely to join one in the foreseeable future. Rather than continually blaming others (a trend seen on this board all the time and anywhere else you find UConn fans), it's time to look a thing the faults in our own candidacy. Everyone on here reads the most recent article regarding expansion, and while most if not all are extremely vague (as they must be due to the NDA), they persistently say "this most recent one screams UConn to me!!!"

"a trend seen on this board all the time and anywhere else you find UConn fans...." Interesting that you would be so annoyed by Uconn fans and yet you seek them out, tell them how annoying they are, and then claim to be one. Hmmmmm.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Ironically, the lack of the ability to analyze one's own motives and deficiencies. Seems like the move from 57 to 60 was justified.

Is this guy really pretending he's a UConn fan? Go back to the Memphis board, troll.

 

[VPDcurt]

Is this guy really pretending he's a UConn fan? Go back to the Memphis board, troll.

Born and raised in West Hartford, CT. Have been a UConn fan my entire life. There's a difference between a fan and a homer.

 

[CL82]

As a UConn fan, I do have to admit that there must be some truth to that sentiment. Emotionally, we see UConn as a good fit in a P5 conference. But realistically, if it made financial sense to the P5s, we would already be in one. No questions asked.

Actually that's a logical fallacy that can be used to support any flawed premise. Pre-Wright brothers, one could argue that if man we meant to fly, he'd have already done so. Since man hadn't flown, man could never fly. So there isn't really any truth to that sentiment, but it is a common flawed thought process.

For your further edification:

Circular reasoning
Circular reasoning is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true.​

 

[VPDcurt]

Actually that's a logical fallacy that can be used to support any flawed premise. Pre-Wright brothers, one could argue that if man we meant to fly, he'd have already done. Since man hadn't flown, man could never fly. So there isn't really any truth to that sentiment, but it is a common flawed thought process.

Lol. Good effort. But this applies only if man were to fly without the aid of an airplane. This is the result of an advance in technology...nothing more.

 

[CL82]

Lol. Good effort. But this applies only if man were to fly without the aid of an airplane. This is the result of an advance in technology...nothing more.

The fact that you don't understand this even after it was explained simplistically to you, makes me smile a bit. That is pretty much what we are facing in dealing with the "well if they were P5 worthy they'd be in the P5" mindset.

The notion that "the way things are is the way they'll always be" is the refuge of little minds.

 

[SubbaBub]

Born and raised in West Hartford, CT. Have been a UConn fan my entire life. There's a difference between a fan and a homer.

A life spanning about 16 years I reckon. Only younglings that haven't lived through the last 15 years of this nonsense (has it really been that long?) would be both a UConn fan and share your opinion.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Sorry for the thread folks, but techsideline and the circular logic (thanks @CL82) that was utilized really pissed me off and since I work from my currently empty home, there was no dog to kick or person to vent to. The Boneyard is all I have until the fam starts arriving home again.

 

[MattMang23]

Conveniently people forget that we were in a BCS conference, which, except for the slight rearranging of a couple deck chairs (us, USF, Cincy out, Utah, TCU in), is now the P5.

So if UConn were not meant to be a P5 school, why did we play in a BCS league for a decade? And why do both the ACC and Big Ten consider us a P5 opponent for scheduling purposes?

 

[VPDcurt]

Conveniently people forget that we were in a BCS conference, which, except for the slight arranging of a couple deck chairs (us, USF, Cincy out, Utah, TCU in), is now the P5.

So if UConn were not meant to be a P5 school, why did we play in a BCS league for a decade? And why do both the ACC and Big Ten consider us a P5 opponent for scheduling purposes?

Agreed. But it's a different landscape now, with finances (and thus football) taking a much more dominant role in conference realignment. Even those on other boards (namely the VT CR board), acknowledge that the ACC lowered its standards to take UL but they don't seem to care, as the football team brings money (can't really confirm that statement but they seem to believe it) and recognition to the conference.

 

[Redding Husky]

If UConn had the resources that a P5 school receives, it would unquestionably be the #2 most valuable athletic program in the Northeast behind PSU.

And all they have is football, so we would be right over their shoulder.

 

[MattMang23]

Agreed. But it's a different landscape now, with finances (and thus football) taking a much more dominant role in conference realignment. Even those on other boards (namely the VT CR board), acknowledge that the ACC lowered its standards to take UL but they don't seem to care, as the football team brings money (can't really confirm that statement but they seem to believe it) and recognition to the conference.

We aren't as valuable as Louisville. I can accept that, at least from an athletics perspective. But we are every bit as valuable as 1/3 of the teams already in the P5. It isn't an us vs. Louisville issue. It's an us vs. grandfathered P5 teams issue. Our problem is that it was our conference that got cannonballed and not another league. If it were the ACC that had the same fate, do you think Wake would be in a P5 today? Of course not. We have been the victim of circumstance. If no other additions are made, then until they start kicking out of the club the likes of Wake, Wazzou, Purdue, Northwestern, BCU, etc, there will be more valuable teams on the outside looking in.

 

[TRest]

Sorry for the thread folks, but techsideline and the circular logic (thanks @CL82) that was utilized really pissed me off and since I work from my currently empty home, there was no dog to kick or person to vent to. The Boneyard is all I have until the fam starts arriving home again.

Next time a goober is wrong on the internet, just let it go.

 

[UConn990411]

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

UConn fans certainly overrate the school's value, but no one can objectively say they wouldn't be as valuable as the Syracuses and Louisvilles and Pitts of the world. A combination of bad luck, bad timing, and incompetence from past UConn admins and CT politicians has landed us in this position.

UConn is not a must have for P5s, but you have to be a simpleton to believe the "we'd be in a P5 if we were P5-worthy" narrative.

 

[CL82]

Agreed. But it's a different landscape now, with finances (and thus football) taking a much more dominant role in conference realignment. Even those on other boards (namely the VT CR board), acknowledge that the ACC lowered its standards to take UL but they don't seem to care, as the football team brings money (can't really confirm that statement but they seem to believe it) and recognition to the conference.

If finances were really the issue then UConn is a no-brainer. Our athletic department budget is pretty much at the midpoint of the P5, so that about half the schools in the P5 have smaller athletic department budget than we do. Additionally if you look at our Nike and IMG deals we are among the top schools. Keep in mind that are Nike deal is up for renewal and almost certainly will take a huge leap in value when that happens.

If you are making a metrics based decision, the if you are making a metrics based decision, particularly one based on "finances", then UConn is the obvious choice.

 

[VPDcurt]

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

UConn fans certainly overrate the school's value, but no one can objectively say they wouldn't be as valuable as the Syracuses and Louisvilles and Pitts of the world. A combination of bad luck, bad timing, and incompetence from past UConn admins and CT politicians has landed us in this position.

UConn is not a must have for P5s, but you have to be a simpleton to believe the "we'd be in a P5 if we were P5-worthy" narrative.

Exactly. However, a team like ND (if they decided to no longer be independent in football and weren't forced to join the ACC) wouldn't last for a second in the shadows during realignment. They would receive invites from just about every P5, begging them to join. There would be no question as to whether or not they are "P5 caliber." So there is some truth to both sides. It's important to acknowledge that.

 

[CL82]

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

UConn fans certainly overrate the school's value, but no one can objectively say they wouldn't be as valuable as the Syracuses and Louisvilles and Pitts of the world. A combination of bad luck, bad timing, and incompetence from past UConn admins and CT politicians has landed us in this position.

UConn is not a must have for P5s, but you have to be a simpleton to believe the "we'd be in a P5 if we were P5-worthy" narrative.

You'd think that Connecticut fans would overate our strengths and undervalue our weaknesses, but it far too often is just the opposite. It amazes me how often Connecticut fans, this board pretty much excluded, have no idea of the strength of our brand

 

[MattMang23]

You'd think that Connecticut fans would overate our strengths and undervalue our weaknesses, but it far too often is just the opposite. It amazes me how often Connecticut fans, this board pretty much excluded, have no idea here of the strength of our brand

It's the Nutmegger inferiority complex at work again.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You'd think that Connecticut fans would overate our strengths and undervalue our weaknesses, but it far too often is just the opposite. It amazes me how often Connecticut fans, this board pretty much excluded, have no idea of the strength of our brand

Contrast to Memphis fans: "But we've had two good football seasons (ever)". "We haven't broken NCAA recruiting rules lately, even though our basketball is now meh as a result". "We're close to being ranked on USNWR in the next several years if we work hard". "Our crappy old football stadium is going to be renovated and it will blow your new one away!". "There's a big company in Memphis, nobody else has that!". "We're in a great market...even though it's actually a small city dominated by two SEC schools".

I think those of us here know full well our strengths and weaknesses. What we don't know, and can't know, and nobody knows, is what specific things the conference presidents are looking for. What specific things do they over and under value? Do they, like FSU and Clemson did, want a school with a distinct southern football culture?

 

[CL82]

What people seem to ignore is that we are a horrific fit for the Big 12 in a lot ways, geography and football culture being the the two biggest. Yet we are frequently mentioned as a top candidate for a league we have no business joining. Think there is a reason (multiple reasons actually) for that?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Susan unbuttoned the top button early on in the process?

(Since some people can't recognize a joke if it slapped them across the face, THAT'S A JOKE)

People recognize that it's a joke. Something being a joke doesn't insulate you from criticism over the fact that it's demeaning and inappropriate.

 

[MattMang23]

People recognize that it's a joke. Something being a joke doesn't insulate you from criticism over the fact that it's demeaning and inappropriate.

Totally true. I have no problem if people more PC than I think a little less of me.

However, in the name of making the joke to get a rise out of people, and not actually because I think it's funny (it's not that funny but it fit well in context and tends to be overused here) I will delete my post.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

UConn was the victim of a LOT of bad luck and circumstance, as well as bad decision making by others, and bad decision making on its own part.

Unlucky circumstance:
- We get dinged for "not selling Fiesta Bowl tickets" when in reality it just so happened that this was the time the Fiesta organizers flooded the secondary market with cheap tickets by making National Championship game buyers buy a ticket for the Fiesta Bowl as well. Thus UConn (and OU) fans rightfully bought tickets on Stubhub for 1/4 face value instead of going through UConn. Also, Stanford getting sent to the Orange Bowl instead of us made for coast to coast travel for our fans.
- BC blackballed us in ACC expansion #1, and the rest of the league saw Pitt as a reasonable option instead of us so none of them put up a fight to make the choice SU/UConn instead of SU/Pitt. To the rest of the league that was neither here nor there, and thus BC's blackball stood.
- The Big 12 takes WVU instead of UL, or instead of both of them. This leads to the next point.
- Louisville happened to get hot at the right time before ACC expansion #2 and we were in the P era, as well as the LOL YUKON SOLD NO BOWL TICKETZ media stories. All the while ACC football was in a major downswing and in need of a better football school, thus FSU and Clemson could override the North Carolina schools who wanted us by pushing for UL and their perceived better value. Of course UL's basketball was strong enough to allow the North Carolina schools to look the other way on their piss poor academics. If the Kragthorpe era happens two years after it did and if the P era happens two years after it did, if the UL hooker scandal happens (or is finally discovered) two years before it did, there's an incredibly good chance we're in the ACC right now. BC did not have the support to blackball us in 2012. Also, if UL is in the Big 12, there's a strong case to be made that we'd get an invite over WVU, or they potentially could already be elsewhere, in the SEC or as another B12 addition.
- The Pac expansion into the Big 12 fails. If the Pac took their Big 12 contingent of Texas, Tech, OU, and OK State, A&M and Mizzou likely end up in the SEC as they are, and the Big East FB schools are able to scoop up or merge with KU, K-State, ISU, and Baylor. This would leave a Big East football conference of UConn, Cincinnati, USF, WVU, UL, TCU, and the four B12 teams. Maybe UL still goes to the ACC, but that conference is absolutely able to break away from the Catholic BB schools and able to survive on its own as a strong football conference and a very strong basketball conference and would be one of the current P5 leagues. Why the Big East sent flowers to the Big 12 when the Pac deal fell through is beyond me, that deal would've SAVED the Big East, not destroyed it.

Bad decisions by others:
- Delany goes for Rutgers instead of us. Yes, they're in the AAU, but there is absolutely no on-field or TV viewership metric that supports RU's invitation over us. Not to mention the PR disasters that have come out of the football and basketball programs and the AD's office. RU has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster for the B1G from a competition and PR standpoint. That's why you've seen numerous postings from other B1G bloggers at schools including IU and Ohio State positing the idea that UConn should've been selected instead of RU. This was a colossal error on the B1G's part, and at some level I think they know it.

Bad decisions by UConn:
- P. Duh. An absolutely disastrous hire by UConn at the worst possible time.
- Failing to value attendance at football games and allowing the numbers to dwindle without much response, thus furthering the narrative that no one shows up to our football games.
- I don't know how much difference it would've made with the upswell of the southern ACC football schools wanting a football team rather than "another" basketball school, but UConn's monitoring of the UL/UConn decision by the ACC in 2012 was at the very least bad from a PR perspective. The confluence of events that led to the UL decision may have been out of our hands by that point, but the public image of what Warde and Herbst did during that time was not good.
- No matter how many of you don't want to hear it, the perception is that since our football team does not play on campus, we're somehow second rate. Right or wrong, it is what it is.
- Of course, not moving to FBS football sooner. That's the underlying issue behind everything. If we'd upgraded sooner and began the process sooner, it's highly unlikely we're in the AAC right now.

I'm probably forgetting what other things happened, but these are most of them. We're not in a P5 league right now for all of these reasons.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Next time a goober is wrong on the internet, just let it go.

Normally I can. I read all the twitteratti posts on the CR threads and rarely respond. This one line is my CR kryptonite. It burns me up to no end. My only saving grace is that the s that spew it aren't the decision makers, but it still pisses me off.

 

[Adios]

The collegiate athletics landscape is evolving based on markets. Go to football games (as painful as they are to watch right now). Simple. It's not as if it's 40 home games in the NHL or NBA.

 

[MountainMan]

Brass nailed it with these two.
- No matter how many of you don't want to hear it, the perception is that since our football team does not play on campus, we're somehow second rate. Right or wrong, it is what it is.
- Of course, not moving to FBS football sooner. That's the underlying issue behind everything. If we'd upgraded sooner and began the process sooner, it's highly unlikely we're in the AAC right now.

Had UConn built a stadium on campus and moved from FCS to FBS much earlier we would not be having this situation. Not a whole lot that can be done about either of those at this point but when you look at it UConn is trying to become the youngest football program in the p-5. There is not a another football program similar in age to UConn anywhere in the p-5 that I am aware of. That is one heck of a challenge.

Another thing to keep in mind is how value of a school is much different from conference to conference as Rutgers has much value to the B1G but is pretty much worthless to the Big 12. The Big 12 does not have a network to charge subscribers in the state so performance/TV ratings are much more important. I think that bodes well for UConn when it comes to the Big 12. Schools with actual fans will always be valuable no matter how the delivery of live sports evolves. The days of charging every person in NJ for channels they don't watch is going to come to an end.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

I haven't even read all the comments because the thesis is so dumb. If Purdue or WF or Washington State is in the P5 then we "deserve" to be P5 just the same. It's nothing more than bad luck mixed with geography.

 

[FartMan69]

How early were we considering moving to D1-A? Like when did the rumblings start?

 

[AZHuskiePop]

UConn was the victim of a LOT of bad luck and circumstance, as well as bad decision making by others, and bad decision making on its own part.

Unlucky circumstance:
- We get dinged for "not selling Fiesta Bowl tickets" when in reality it just so happened that this was the time the Fiesta organizers flooded the secondary market with cheap tickets by making National Championship game buyers buy a ticket for the Fiesta Bowl as well. Thus UConn (and OU) fans rightfully bought tickets on Stubhub for 1/4 face value instead of going through UConn. Also, Stanford getting sent to the Orange Bowl instead of us made for coast to coast travel for our fans.
- BC blackballed us in ACC expansion #1, and the rest of the league saw Pitt as a reasonable option instead of us so none of them put up a fight to make the choice SU/UConn instead of SU/Pitt. To the rest of the league that was neither here nor there, and thus BC's blackball stood.
- The Big 12 takes WVU instead of UL, or instead of both of them. This leads to the next point.
- Louisville happened to get hot at the right time before ACC expansion #2 and we were in the P era, as well as the LOL YUKON SOLD NO BOWL TICKETZ media stories. All the while ACC football was in a major downswing and in need of a better football school, thus FSU and Clemson could override the North Carolina schools who wanted us by pushing for UL and their perceived better value. Of course UL's basketball was strong enough to allow the North Carolina schools to look the other way on their piss poor academics. If the Kragthorpe era happens two years after it did and if the P era happens two years after it did, if the UL hooker scandal happens (or is finally discovered) two years before it did, there's an incredibly good chance we're in the ACC right now. BC did not have the support to blackball us in 2012. Also, if UL is in the Big 12, there's a strong case to be made that we'd get an invite over WVU, or they potentially could already be elsewhere, in the SEC or as another B12 addition.
- The Pac expansion into the Big 12 fails. If the Pac took their Big 12 contingent of Texas, Tech, OU, and OK State, A&M and Mizzou likely end up in the SEC as they are, and the Big East FB schools are able to scoop up or merge with KU, K-State, ISU, and Baylor. This would leave a Big East football conference of UConn, Cincinnati, USF, WVU, UL, TCU, and the four B12 teams. Maybe UL still goes to the ACC, but that conference is absolutely able to break away from the Catholic BB schools and able to survive on its own as a strong football conference and a very strong basketball conference and would be one of the current P5 leagues. Why the Big East sent flowers to the Big 12 when the Pac deal fell through is beyond me, that deal would've SAVED the Big East, not destroyed it.

Bad decisions by others:
- Delany goes for Rutgers instead of us. Yes, they're in the AAU, but there is absolutely no on-field or TV viewership metric that supports RU's invitation over us. Not to mention the PR disasters that have come out of the football and basketball programs and the AD's office. RU has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster for the B1G from a competition and PR standpoint. That's why you've seen numerous postings from other B1G bloggers at schools including IU and Ohio State positing the idea that UConn should've been selected instead of RU. This was a colossal error on the B1G's part, and at some level I think they know it.

Bad decisions by UConn:
- P. Duh. An absolutely disastrous hire by UConn at the worst possible time.
- Failing to value attendance at football games and allowing the numbers to dwindle without much response, thus furthering the narrative that no one shows up to our football games.
- I don't know how much difference it would've made with the upswell of the southern ACC football schools wanting a football team rather than "another" basketball school, but UConn's monitoring of the UL/UConn decision by the ACC in 2012 was at the very least bad from a PR perspective. The confluence of events that led to the UL decision may have been out of our hands by that point, but the public image of what Warde and Herbst did during that time was not good.
- No matter how many of you don't want to hear it, the perception is that since our football team does not play on campus, we're somehow second rate. Right or wrong, it is what it is.
- Of course, not moving to FBS football sooner. That's the underlying issue behind everything. If we'd upgraded sooner and began the process sooner, it's highly unlikely we're in the AAC right now.

I'm probably forgetting what other things happened, but these are most of them. We're not in a P5 league right now for all of these reasons.

Your forgetting that Jim Calhoun retired at a time we were facing suspension on bogus grounds. The narrative was UConn basketball was Jim Calhoun and our program was dead. Thats a narrative that is actually believed by the gullible on this board.
The fact that the other Big East schools were pretty much regional as well escapes the discussion. The Big East and ESPN gave them a national stage and to UConn's credit we took advantage of the opportunity

 

[CallMeBruce]

How early were we considering moving to D1-A? Like when did the rumblings start?

If I remember correctly, Perkins was pushing for it pretty much as soon as he was hired.