OT: Rutgers will require vaccinations for students fall '21

[fatlucy]

If they require then Rutgers should pay for it, any school for that matter.

They’re free

 

[Scoe]

They’re free

well good even better

 

[upstater]

And yet, there still may not be enough for people that age to even GET one. That age demographic will literally be THE LAST to get access to the vaccine

States have already opened up the queue for 16 and up. It's already happening.

 

[Kathy]

Partially true with the military. Some who are designated as critical personnel are required and some who are deploying are required. Amongst the ham and egger regular joe's in the states, it's still optional.

30% of them are refusing

 

[Fishy]

And yet, there still may not be enough for people that age to even GET one. That age demographic will literally be THE LAST to get access to the vaccine

I don’t think that will be an issue in the United States, but there may be some who cannot get it, especially foreign students. (Look how badly the EU is handing their vaccination rollout.)

They will have to carve out exemptions for people who will not get the vaccine for religious or health reasons.

But overall, I think maximizing the number of people vaccinated on a college campus is obviously a sound idea.

 

[HooperScooper]

Not sure if anybody bothered to read the article I linked. It isn't like all the other fully approved vaccines.

Of course not. Most of us barely read a post before responding. 😜

Just read it.

Even though the FDA granted emergency use authorizations for the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines in December 2020, the clinical trials the FDA will rely upon to ultimately decide whether to license these vaccines are still underway and are designed to last for approximately two years to collect adequate data to establish if these vaccines are safe and effective enough for the FDA to license.

This means that an organization will likely be at odds with federal law if it requires its employees, students or other members to get a Covid-19 vaccine that is being distributed under emergency use authorization.

 

[Kathy]

I don’t think that will be an issue in the United States, but there may be some who cannot get it, especially foreign students. (Look how badly the EU is handing their vaccination rollout.)

They will have to carve out exemptions for people who will not get the vaccine for religious or health reasons.

But overall, I think maximizing the number of people vaccinated on a college campus is obviously a sound idea.

Religious reasons not getting a vaccine are not allowed in 5 states and in some the form needs to be notarized

Most states allow religious exemptions for vaccinations | Pew Research Center

Most states in the U.S. allow children to be exempt from vaccinations due to religious concerns.

www.pewresearch.org

This despite the fact that there's really really only 2 religions in the US that prohibit vaccinations

Very Few Religions Expressly Prohibit Vaccination, Yet Confusion Remains | History of Vaccines

News outlets are reporting an increase in the cases of vaccine-preventable diseases – and some outbreaks – from Thailand and Indonesia due to religious concerns about vaccinations. In both countries, Muslim religious authorities have…

www.historyofvaccines.org

It has become the anti-vaxxers way of refusing. IMO more states should do away with it.

 

[Chin Diesel]

30% of them are refusing

Is that 30% of those who have the option to refuse or 30% overall?

Because if it's 30% overall that means for those who can refuse it, are refusing at a much higher rate than 30%.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

hehe 'red state college full enrollment' act. and oh, deep, deep, superdeep analysis of selective vaccine deployment shows, time and time again, a roughly 2 to 1 ratio, which coincidently is where we are, and expected to stay, plus or minus.
now, aboot this Supreme Court thing....

 

[BackAftaThis]

I was a little worried about getting the vaccine at first because of how rushed it was. I eventually decided to get it because I think it’s pretty obvious where things are headed for the near future. You will need proof of this vaccine to travel...plane, cruise, etc. You may need this vaccine to attend sporting events. MSG was only letting full vaccinated fans into the Big East Tourament, and I think its the same for Knicks games. Im no expert, but the fact they give you a card showing proof may be an indicator you will need that.

Not true for MSG. It’s now vaccine or PCR test or rapid test.

 

[Fishy]

Religious reasons not getting a vaccine are not allowed in 5 states and in some the form needs to be notarized

Most states allow religious exemptions for vaccinations | Pew Research Center

Most states in the U.S. allow children to be exempt from vaccinations due to religious concerns.

www.pewresearch.org

This despite the fact that there's really really only 2 religions in the US that prohibit vaccinations

Very Few Religions Expressly Prohibit Vaccination, Yet Confusion Remains | History of Vaccines

News outlets are reporting an increase in the cases of vaccine-preventable diseases – and some outbreaks – from Thailand and Indonesia due to religious concerns about vaccinations. In both countries, Muslim religious authorities have…

www.historyofvaccines.org

It has become the anti-vaxxers way of refusing. IMO more states should do away with it.

If there’s even one person in the country who has a religious objection to it, it should be accommodated.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

If there’s even one person in the country who has a religious objection to it, it should be accommodated.

The Supreme Court, so, no mandate. of course, in those states well on the way to causing their own economic downfall... mask up!

 

[Kathy]

Is that 30% of those who have the option to refuse or 30% overall?

Because if it's 30% overall that means for those who can refuse it, are refusing at a much higher rate than 30%.

This was as of 2/21

About a third of troops have turned down the COVID-19 vaccine

More than 300,000 troops have received at least one dose so far.

www.militarytimes.com

 

[Kathy]

If there’s even one person in the country who has a religious objection to it, it should be accommodated.

A true religious objection yes but in my experience with exemptions those are far and few between. Most parents over the years have used it for their personal preference because no proof of beliefs are needed.

 

[Travelman6]

A true religious objection yes but in my experience with exemptions those are far and few between. Most parents over the years have used it for their personal preference because no proof of beliefs are needed.

I mean, religion and shots aside, how do you prove what YOU believe? It is not like someone else can dispute what you believe in your head.

 

[XLCenterFan]

good. make it required for everything. if you don't want to get it you can be banished to a lifetime of sitting in your house and thinking about how selfish and stupid you are.

Yes. This. If you don’t want to be a part of society, then move into the woods and live off the land where you don’t have to worry about these things.

 

[XLCenterFan]

A true religious objection yes but in my experience with exemptions those are far and few between. Most parents over the years have used it for their personal preference because no proof of beliefs are needed.

It’s odd that society is moving away from organized religion yet there are more and more looking to claim the religious exemption. It’s as if those that adhere to religion are becoming more zealous, or they are simply lying.

 

[Get a Job]

If there’s even one person in the country who has a religious objection to it, it should be accommodated.

This is an absurd and unworkable standard. Even Scalia thought so. From the National Law Review, with added bolding from me:

"In an opinion written by Justice Scalia, the Supreme Court held that the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment prohibited governments from singling out religious conduct for regulation, but did not require governments to create religious exemptions from all of its laws. As long as the law was generally applicable to all religious and non-religious individuals alike, and neutral toward religion, meaning not intended to interfere with religious practice, the law met the requirements of the Free Exercise Clause."

 

[HuskyHawk]

This was as of 2/21

About a third of troops have turned down the COVID-19 vaccine

More than 300,000 troops have received at least one dose so far.

www.militarytimes.com

Some young, fit, healthy people not really at any risk from the disease don't want to take an experimental vaccine using a novel delivery mechanism never before used on people. Not surprising. Many college students are in the same situation. They are probably fine, but I think people need to make that risk trade-off themselves.

I expect the widespread availability of the J&J vaccine to increase the numbers of younger people vaccinated. Military, healthcare, those who refused may be more open to that one.

 

[Kathy]

I mean, religion and shots aside, how do you prove what YOU believe? It is not like someone else can dispute what you believe in your head.

Prove you are a member of the only 2 religions that ban vaccines, other than that you don't have a leg to stand on. I know for a fact there are many anti-vaxxers without a strong religious belief for their stand who 'use' the religious exemption. There are kids in schools with valid medical reasons for not being vaccinated which is as it should be. But those that abuse the religious exemption put other children at risk.

 

[Kathy]

It’s odd that society is moving away from organized religion yet there are more and more looking to claim the religious exemption. It’s as if those that adhere to religion are becoming more zealous, or they are simply lying.

Many are simply lying because as I have shown in linked articles there really are only 2 religions that ban vaccines. Islam allows them even if pork derivatives are in them. Christian faiths have said the same even if stem cells from aborted fetuses are used. Most organized Religions realize the greater good of vaccinations.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

Many are simply lying because as I have shown in linked articles there really are only 2 religions that ban vaccines. Islam allows them even if pork derivatives are in them. Christian faiths have said the same even if stem cells from aborted fetuses are used. Most organized Religions realize the greater good of vaccinations.

It is a personal choice of your own conscience whether or not it violates your religious beliefs. No religious organization can speak for me or anyone else for that matter. I will not get the Johnson and Johnson vaccine because it used fetal cell lines to be produced. If the Pope comes out and says its fine to take that vaccine that doesn't mean Christians can now get the J&J vaccine morally. It violates my personal religious beliefs and I don't have to justify that to you or anyone else. I am accountable to God not man.

 

[Greedo]

It is a personal choice of your own conscience whether or not it violates your religious beliefs. No religious organization can speak for me or anyone else for that matter. I will not get the Johnson and Johnson vaccine because it used fetal cell lines to be produced. If the Pope comes out and says its fine to take that vaccine that doesn't mean Christians can now get the J&J vaccine morally. It violates my personal religious beliefs and I don't have to justify that to you or anyone else.

I guarantee you're regularly taking advantage of medical advancements that have used stem cells without even realizing it. Just some food for thought. The medication given to Trump when he was in the hospital with Covid used fetal cell lines.

 

[Excalibur]

That is going to be interesting. I suspect it will be challenged. The Vaccine available under an emergency use authorization, so can't be required by employers for example. Not sure schools would be different.

Edit: Google providing a lot of what seems like misinformation about this, looking at other vaccines. Employers can't require Covid-19 vaccination under an EUA - STAT (statnews.com)

This is not as cut and dry as you or Siri describe here. The author misinterpreted the comments of Dr. Cohn as being applicable to all private organizations, and left out the part about informing patients of the consequences of refusing the vaccine.

Here is the relevant text of the statute:


"With respect to the emergency use of an unapproved product, the Secretary, to the extent practicable . . . shall . . . establish such conditions on an authorization under this section as the Secretary finds necessary or appropriate to protect the public health, including . . . Appropriate conditions designed to ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed . . . of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product, of the consequences, if any, of refusing administration of the product, and of the alternatives to the product that are available and of their benefits and risks."

Clearly there can be consequences of refusal, and the Secretary has the ability to permit consequences he/she deems appropriate to protect the public health.

There are other considerations that may make a mandate illegal for private organizations, or schools, but the reliance on the EUA statute is misplaced.

 

[Kathy]

It is a personal choice of your own conscience whether or not it violates your religious beliefs. No religious organization can speak for me or anyone else for that matter. I will not get the Johnson and Johnson vaccine because it used fetal cell lines to be produced. If the Pope comes out and says its fine to take that vaccine that doesn't mean Christians can now get the J&J vaccine morally. It violates my personal religious beliefs and I don't have to justify that to you or anyone else. I am accountable to God not man.

Imo - that doesn't qualify for an exemption, sorry. 30 years ago I would have said ok, unfortunately people using that exemption for reasons that have nothing to do with religion have hurt your cause.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

Imo - that doesn't qualify for an exemption, sorry. 30 years ago I would have said ok, unfortunately people using that exemption for reasons that have nothing to do with religion have hurt your cause.

Luckily it isn't up for you to decide. You don't get to dictate my morals any more than I get to dictate yours

 

[temery]

Locked. I don't care what your religion or politics are, but it won't be debated here, and I don't have the time or interest to babysit such a thread.