Rumor from the .

[Ldandy]

You have a tough sell calling the Big Ten a better football conference than the ACC. The ACC has the National Champion, put 11 out of 14 teams in bowl games in 2013, has the Heisman Trophy winner and the winners of almost a sweep of all of the individual awards, waxed Ohio State and Minnesota head to head in bowls, sent the second most players to the NFL draft, and sits in one of the richest regions for high school talent in America. But keep dreaming.

I'll give you that the Big Ten might be more hyped than the ACC in football. It was great in the 1960s. But today it is always overrated and most of the time sends a team out to the Rose Bowl to get their arse kicked every year. I realize that Michigan State broke a long losing streak this past time though. Even if you go back 15 years in head to head matchups between the ACC and Big Ten, the ACC has more wins. Heck even a team as bad as my team UVA has wins over Minnesota, Indiana twice, and Penn State in the past decade with no losses to a Big Ten school. We've even lost to MAC schools.

And Yes I know Urban Meyer is an Ohio State person, but his access to Florida talent will be the only thing that keeps his team at the top of that league and in the national discussion. And he didn't get that access to Florida talent until he spent time in Florida himself.

Congrats on your huge 1 point home win over a PSU team that dressed under 60 scholarship players and saw its kicker miss 4 field goals and an extra point. UVA was definitely legit that Saturday LOL. Spin if you must, but the brand value of the top teams of the B1G eclipses anything the ACC could hope to roll out. Small publics, religious privates, and little brother schools. Good luck with all that.

 

[BC1978]

ACC football definitely improved in 2013. If FSU can factor in the National Title hunt in most years, then the conference should only get stronger. I think what would make the ACC truly a premier football conference is if a handful of northern-based schools strung together some 9-10+ win seasons. Of course, this would hurt UCONN recruiting because we go head to head with these schools for a lot of kids and recruiting against a 9-10 win team in a good football conference wouldn't bode well for UCONN if we are still stuck in the AAC.

Agreed. Good analysis. Of course, if the northern schools had strong years in FB and were to demonstrate that the northern tier has the potential to add significant juice to their respective conferences; IMO, that would help Uconn (assuming, of course, they have a similar rise) as it would underscore the importance of the northern teams to a conference's success.

 

[BC1978]

Outside of 128, shows what you know.

LOL! Well, I was being a bit more generous to my hometown in my assessment as, frankly, this provincialism is a bit embarrassing, IMO. But I take your point!

 

[btstimpy]

ACC football definitely improved in 2013. If FSU can factor in the National Title hunt in most years, then the conference should only get stronger. I think what would make the ACC truly a premier football conference is if a handful of northern-based schools strung together some 9-10+ win seasons. Of course, this would hurt UCONN recruiting because we go head to head with these schools for a lot of kids and recruiting against a 9-10 win team in a good football conference wouldn't bode well for UCONN if we are still stuck in the AAC.

UConn needs to be included in one of the P5 conferences, and the Big Ten and ACC would both work IMO. I'm biased for the ACC, but the Big Ten is a quality conference as well. I think opportunities will return when the ACC renegotiates its contract through the look in in 2017 and the Big Ten renegotiates its Tier 1 contract in 2017. Until then there are some good football teams in the AAC performing well with less television resources like UCF who beat Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl. It's not like that league is absolutely terrible. Winning it will still require a good football team.

 

[btstimpy]

This is exactly my point, The ACC has too many natural advantages to languish performance-wise forever. These things go in cycles and it will be interesting to see if the ACC has finally "fixed" their issues going forward. We shall see.

I think some quality coaches have come into the league, and it will be up to them to get the job done. If Frank Beamer could win a big bowl game, there wouldn't be any talk of ACC BCS woes like we've had. VT went to 5 of the BCS bowls in the past decade and lost 4 of them as favored teams. Other schools lost as well like Clemson, Wake, GT, and FSU, but VT's BCS bowls were a big part of the situation. FSU has now won 2 in a row, and Clemson has won one, so maybe we're on a good trend.

 

[SAMCRO]

Really? And just how do you figure that? Boston - where anything outside of Rt. 495 is equivalent to being from Mars to the average Boston sports fan.

Then a martian just through out the first pitch at Fenway not too long ago.

 

[kyleslamb]

You have a tough sell calling the Big Ten a better football conference than the ACC. The ACC has the National Champion, put 11 out of 14 teams in bowl games in 2013, has the Heisman Trophy winner and the winners of almost a sweep of all of the individual awards, waxed Ohio State and Minnesota head to head in bowls, sent the second most players to the NFL draft, and sits in one of the richest regions for high school talent in America. But keep dreaming.

I'll give you that the Big Ten might be more hyped than the ACC in football. It was great in the 1960s. But today it is always overrated and most of the time sends a team out to the Rose Bowl to get their arse kicked every year. I realize that Michigan State broke a long losing streak this past time though. Even if you go back 15 years in head to head matchups between the ACC and Big Ten, the ACC has more wins. Heck even a team as bad as my team UVA has wins over Minnesota, Indiana twice, and Penn State in the past decade with no losses to a Big Ten school. We've even lost to MAC schools.

And Yes I know Urban Meyer is an Ohio State person, but his access to Florida talent will be the only thing that keeps his team at the top of that league and in the national discussion. And he didn't get that access to Florida talent until he spent time in Florida himself.

UM WHAT?! Are you out of your mind? Urban went 39-8 combined at Bowling Green and Utah and you have the audacity to suggest that "access to Florida talent" will be the only thing that keeps his team at the top of the league and in the national discussion? That is one of the absolute ridiculous things I've ever seen posted on a message board.

Sagarin ratings (more objective than an ACC partisan who apparently doesn't know Urban Meyer has won everywhere he's been), by the way, had the Big Ten better than the ACC this year; and last year; and the year before that; and the year before that.... you get the idea. The Big Ten is superior to the ACC. This year the ACC had two really good teams... it was very mediocre everywhere else.

 

[Stray_Dog]

Really? And just how do you figure that? Boston - where anything outside of Rt. 495 is equivalent to being from Mars to the average Boston sports fan.

Are you stating a hard fast rule...because with this one exception your rule would be thrown out in its entirety. My rebuttal, then, is: UConn WBB!!! Explain that to me! And yes I know we were talking football, but you said ANYTHING outside of RT 495.

 

[kyleslamb]

Sagarin average rating by league:

2013

Pac-12 (81.3)
SEC (80.6)
Big 12 (77.3)
Big Ten (75.0)
ACC (73.9)

2012

SEC (81.6)
Big 12 (79.4)
Pac-12 (75.6)
Big Ten (75.1)
ACC (71.9)

2011

Big 12 (82.8)
SEC (81.6)
Pac-12 (75.4)
Big Ten (75.3)
ACC (71.0)

2010

Pac-10 (81.4)
SEC (79.6)
Big 12 (75.6)
Big Ten (74.7)
ACC (74.2)

Sagarin's ratings go back to the beginning of the BCS era (1998). In that time, the Big Ten has had a higher league average than the ACC in his ratings in 12 of the 16 seasons. Most of that time, the Big Ten was the top 1-2 leagues. It's really only since 2007 that it's been down. But let's be honest... Penn State will bounce back at some point. They only hung on to a senile coach for too long and are in a rough patch due to a very unusual ordeal. Nebraska is also a top-10 program that won't go away. Michigan has been down more than usual the last few years, but they're not going to go away.

The Big Ten, flat out, is a better league than the ACC. Always has been (as a whole, as not to suggest that it can't or won't be better in a given year); and will be for the forseeable future.

 

[itgoeslike]

Sagarin average rating by league:

2013

Pac-12 (81.3)
SEC (80.6)
Big 12 (77.3)
Big Ten (75.0)
ACC (73.9)

2012

SEC (81.6)
Big 12 (79.4)
Pac-12 (75.6)
Big Ten (75.1)
ACC (71.9)

2011

Big 12 (82.8)
SEC (81.6)
Pac-12 (75.4)
Big Ten (75.3)
ACC (71.0)

2010

Pac-10 (81.4)
SEC (79.6)
Big 12 (75.6)
Big Ten (74.7)
ACC (74.2)

Sagarin's ratings go back to the beginning of the BCS era (1998). In that time, the Big Ten has had a higher league average than the ACC in his ratings in 12 of the 16 seasons. Most of that time, the Big Ten was the top 1-2 leagues. It's really only since 2007 that it's been down. But let's be honest... Penn State will bounce back at some point. They only hung on to a senile coach for too long and are in a rough patch due to a very unusual ordeal. Nebraska is also a top-10 program that won't go away. Michigan has been down more than usual the last few years, but they're not going to go away.

The Big Ten, flat out, is a better league than the ACC. Always has been (as a whole, as not to suggest that it can't or won't be better in a given year); and will be for the forseeable future.

Including the Big East in the data above would have revealed that the ACC also finished behind the Big East in the last two years of its existence.

 

[itgoeslike]

Sagarin average rating by league:

2013

Pac-12 (81.3)
SEC (80.6)
Big 12 (77.3)
Big Ten (75.0)
ACC (73.9)

2012

SEC (81.6)
Big 12 (79.4)
Pac-12 (75.6)
Big Ten (75.1)
ACC (71.9)

2011

Big 12 (82.8)
SEC (81.6)
Pac-12 (75.4)
Big Ten (75.3)
ACC (71.0)

2010

Pac-10 (81.4)
SEC (79.6)
Big 12 (75.6)
Big Ten (74.7)
ACC (74.2)

Sagarin's ratings go back to the beginning of the BCS era (1998). In that time, the Big Ten has had a higher league average than the ACC in his ratings in 12 of the 16 seasons. Most of that time, the Big Ten was the top 1-2 leagues. It's really only since 2007 that it's been down. But let's be honest... Penn State will bounce back at some point. They only hung on to a senile coach for too long and are in a rough patch due to a very unusual ordeal. Nebraska is also a top-10 program that won't go away. Michigan has been down more than usual the last few years, but they're not going to go away.

The Big Ten, flat out, is a better league than the ACC. Always has been (as a whole, as not to suggest that it can't or won't be better in a given year); and will be for the forseeable future.

Slightly off topic topic from above. . .The Big 12 GOR Addendum that you secured via FOI referenced the original Big 12 contract in several locations. Did you ever secure the original Big 12 contract as well?

 

[SAMCRO]

Here's the Sagarins ncluding the Big East. RIP BE, the T4th best FB conference over it's last 4 seasons of existence.

2012
1 SOUTHEASTERN = 81.75
2 BIG 12 = 79.99
3 PAC-12 = 76.15
4 BIG TEN = 75.87
5 BIG EAST = 72.16
6 ATLANTIC COAST = 71.64

2011
1 BIG 12 = 83.61
2 SOUTHEASTERN = 80.88
3 BIG TEN = 75.55
4 PAC-12 = 74.72
5 BIG EAST = 72.41
6 ATLANTIC COAST = 71.23

2010
1 PAC-10 = 80.87
2 SOUTHEASTERN = 79.84
3 BIG 12 = 75.42
4 ATLANTIC COAST = 74.32
5 BIG TEN = 74.18
6 BIG EAST = 73.27

2009
1 SOUTHEASTERN= 80.48
2 BIG EAST = 77.33
3 PAC-10 = 76.23
4 ATLANTIC COAST = 76.04
5 BIG 12 = 74.61
6 BIG TEN = 73.74

 

[kyleslamb]

Slightly off topic topic from above. . .The Big 12 GOR Addendum that you secured via FOI referenced the original Big 12 contract in several locations. Did you ever secure the original Big 12 contract as well?

Unfortunately that contract is out of the scope of discovery through state records since it's a private contract between the league, a private corporation, and media partner. I haven't tried to get it, but I already know it's not worth the effort since the only signatories are agents for two private companies.

 

[itgoeslike]

Unfortunately that contract is out of the scope of discovery through state records since it's a private contract between the league, a private corporation, and media partner. I haven't tried to get it, but I already know it's not worth the effort since the only signatories are agents for two private companies.

Thanks for the info. It's been a while since I read the addendum, but I recall wishing I had the original contract that was referenced within the document.

 

[UConn990411]

Anyone trying to hype up ACC football should not be taken seriously.

FSU is obviously a very good program, but the rest of the teams in the conference fluctuate from being no better than decent to an absolute trainwreck. Despite the perception, the Big East was a better conference the last 10 or so years before ESPN aided its destruction.

 

[itgoeslike]

Unfortunately that contract is out of the scope of discovery through state records since it's a private contract between the league, a private corporation, and media partner. I haven't tried to get it, but I already know it's not worth the effort since the only signatories are agents for two private companies.

For this one, I was thinking more black stocking cap, hanging from the ceiling, mission-impossible kind of stuff.

 

[kyleslamb]

Thanks for the info. It's been a while since I read the addendum, but I recall wishing I had the original contract that was referenced within the document.

I will say, I don't believe that document contains any a-ha language in it. It really just spells out the terms of any ordinary media deal... i.e. scope, duration and qualifiers. Basically any media deal is made between the league and the media partner on behalf of all its member schools, which it grants through the bylaws; in this case, the only difference is that the Grant of Rights just extends these rights for a set duration of time rather than indefinitely as a league member. So while it would be nice to get a hold of that contract, it's probably not something that would clarify our curiosity any further.

 

[BC1978]

Congrats on your huge 1 point home win over a PSU team that dressed under 60 scholarship players and saw its kicker miss 4 field goals and an extra point. UVA was definitely legit that Saturday LOL. Spin if you must, but the brand value of the top teams of the B1G eclipses anything the ACC could help to roll out. Small publics, religious privates, and little brother schools. Good luck with all that.

Then a martian just through out the first pitch at Fenway not too long ago.

And this has exactly what to do with who the average Boston sports fan pays attention to?? The Red Sox provide this honor to any team or group in New England that it feels has done something noteworthy. Last year, the Yale hockey team was honored. BC's hockey team has been so honored after each of its National Championships. If, for example, the University of Vermont wins a championship next year, they will also be honored. The other day the Captain of the Women's Olympic hockey team threw out the first pitch. For Earth day this year, two government officials threw out the first pitch (see below). The heroes from the Marathon bombing through out the first pitch as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...throw-first-and-second-pitch-at-red-sox-game/

 

[BC1978]

Are you stating a hard fast rule...because with this one exception your rule would be thrown out in its entirety. My rebuttal, then, is: UConn WBB!!! Explain that to me! And yes I know we were talking football, but you said ANYTHING outside of RT 495.

Really?? If you think the average Boston sports fan follows Uconn WBB...or college basketball at all for that matter (outside of the NCAA tournament), then I don't know what to say!

 

[Nostical]

If you think the average Boston sports fan follows Uconn WBB...

Not exactly sure what the "average Boston Sports fan" is, but there's a huge elder facility in Peabody, Brooksby Village, who's residents petitioned to have them get SNY so they could watch UConn Women's Basketball. UConn Basketball resonates throughout New England, to a degree. To deny that is disingenuous.

 

[Sea Goat]

And this has exactly what to do with who the average Boston sports fan pays attention to?? The Red Sox provide this honor to any team or group in New England that it feels has done something noteworthy. Last year, the Yale hockey team was honored. BC's hockey team has been so honored after each of its National Championships. If, for example, the University of Vermont wins a championship next year, they will also be honored. The other day the Captain of the Women's Olympic hockey team threw out the first pitch. For Earth day this year, two government officials threw out the first pitch (see below). The heroes from the Marathon bombing through out the first pitch as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...throw-first-and-second-pitch-at-red-sox-game/

As a Yankee fan, I can admire how the Red Sox treated our NCAA champion Huskies. Too bad the WBB team wasn't there. I do believe that the Red Sox has always honored NE NCAA championship teams in this manner. I am sure that the BC championship hockey teams have likewise been honored. However, I do think college sports are second fiddle in Boston. Other than college hockey, there is zero buzz regarding the local college teams. This is as much a result of D-1 college sports being dreadful inside 495, except for hockey than "pro sports town" syndrome. BC has been awful for so long in FB, MBB and WBB that it is hard to know if a following could develop by virtue of some success.

What do you think?

 

[Hoophound]

Not exactly sure what the "average Boston Sports fan" is, but there's a huge elder facility in Peabody, Brooksby Village, who's residents petitioned to have them get SNY so they could watch UConn Women's Basketball. UConn Basketball resonates throughout New England, to a degree. To deny that is disingenuous.

This is true. I have several friends that are Waltham natives and they all still live there or in a town nearby. Back in the late 80's to late nineties they were sort of BC fans. They now follow and cheer on UConn. I wouldn't have called them avid fans but when I got a text saying "got 5 FF tix, you coming with us?", I was totally shocked. They had a casual interest because me and a few other college buddies were UConn fans. They have now gone from dislike or indifference to buying FF tickets to see UConn play. I never thought I'd see the day that they would head to Dallas specifically to see UConn in the FF and I would choose to stay home with the wife and kids and watch on tv. First of all, Boston area natives hate travel and second of all, they used to hate UConn. Winning makes fans out of people. If you want a regional basketball program to follow, there is only one.

 

[Dooley]

All I can add to this is that sports fans range in varying demographics. There is a younger demographic that certain sports appeal to and an older demographic that certain sports appeal to. Both sets of demographics have eyeballs and TV sets and money to pay for cable fees. It's hard to label any particular group as "average". But I guess when we're talking about "average", we're referring to what what is covered by the media and blowhards who claim to know a little something about sports. For the most part, the blowhard media types do not cover women's basketball but for the fans of women's basketball, I can't say that they are missing anything. Can you imagine Dick Vitale as a Subway Fresh Hotline "expert" talking about women's basketball? Stephen A Smith? Skip Bayless? These types of idiots only torture the "average" sports fan. I guess the women's basketball fans are on to something in that regard.

 

[upstater]

People are going to kill me for saying this but the popularity of women's bball has a little to do with the belief in the student athlete, the emphasis on amateurism, and race. This is why women's bball might transcend the regional lines and borders we draw around the men's game. It sort of also shows there is an appetite for college sports that is very different than what we're seeing right now from the NCAA's top ranks. Why don't these people watch the men anymore?

 

[uconndogs]

Really?? If you think the average Boston sports fan follows Uconn WBB...or college basketball at all for that matter (outside of the NCAA tournament), then I don't know what to say!

This is a typical BC supporter argument. Yes, Boston is a pro sports town. But, I lived in Boston when Flutie was under center and BC was putting some good basketball on the floor. Boston does have a college sports market if there is something worth watching. BC's leadership has just been so retched at establishing and maintaining excellence that fans have lost interest. You put somebody like DeFellipo in charge of your AD for a prolonged period of time you pretty much tell the world you're second rate.

As for women's basketball, it's popularity has greatly surprised me. I am not a fan of the game, but it hits a demographic very effectively. Geno and UCONN have defined it. It will certainly not define CR, but UCONN holds a property that does have value.

 

[Yawkey Way]

As a Yankee fan, I can admire how the Red Sox treated our NCAA champion Huskies. However, I do think college sports are second fiddle in Boston. . BC has been awful for so long in FB, MBB and WBB that it is hard to know if a following could develop by virtue of some success.

What do you think?

Boston is absolutely a pro sports town... where most casual sports fans around Eastern Mass consider the college basketball and college football teams as minor league preps for the Pros. Its also a front running fan base. They like winners, or contenders and will focus on those teams the most that are winning.

As for BC, I suppose when someone says " BC has been awful for so long " that there time horizon only goes back perhaps only 4 or 5 years. If this is the case, then they do have a point. But if their time horizon is longer than 4 -5 years or so, then it should be pointed out that BC, in football, went to the ACC league Football Championship games in both 2007 and 2008 ( against Virginia Tech ) and in 2006 BC went to the ACC Baskeball Tournament Championship Game vs. Duke ( lost by 2). Since BC has joined the ACC, its combined Basketball and football record in the ACC, is in the upper echelon of the ACC when compared to all the other ACC Schools in the similar time frame. So yes, the BC AD did a crappy job the last 3-4 years hiring coaches ( but he's retired ), but Uconn's Hathaway's hiring of Pasqualoni was a bust that has set back Uconn football too during this similar time frame lets not forget. Both Uconn Fottball and BC Football are coming off bad hires. But both appear to be in the hands of competent coaches, ( BC football did go bowling again last season ) so both fan bases are entitled to feel better about their football futures, imo

 

[Yawkey Way]

This is true. I have several friends that are Waltham natives and they all still live there or in a town nearby. Back in the late 80's to late nineties they were sort of BC fans. They now follow and cheer on UConn. .

I never met anyone that follows Uconn football however in Eastern Mass that is not a Uconn college alum living in the area. But by the same token, I've never met anyone in Connecticut that is not a BC alum that follows BC football, now that Uconn football has moved up to FBS status. Umass basketball when Camby, Calipari were doing well, got some local Boston area buzz, but even Umass might as well be out in the midwest as they get no coverage lately in Eastern Mass. Uconn basketball does have some level of interest to casual sports fans in Boston region, but its probably 5th in interest, in back of the Revolution. BC only gets ink when it wins.. even so, its football home game atendance last season was higher than Uconn's football, although we should be able to agree that both need to get bigger crowd from around their respective stadiums out to their home football games moving forward, as both attendances have taken a dip from what it was just a few short years ago..

 

[pj]

I never met anyone that follows Uconn football however in Eastern Mass that is not a Uconn college alum living in the area. But by the same token, I've never met anyone in Connecticut that is not a BC alum that follows BC football, now that Uconn football has moved up to FBS status. Umass basketball when Camby, Calipari were doing well, got some local Boston area buzz, but even Umass might as well be out in the midwest as they get no coverage lately in Eastern Mass. Uconn basketball does have some level of interest to casual sports fans in Boston region, but its probably 5th in interest, in back of the Revolution. BC only gets ink when it wins.. even so, its football home game atendance last season was higher than Uconn's football, although we should be able to agree that both need to get bigger crowds to their home football games moving forward, as both attendances have taken a dip from what it was just a few short years ago..

Once UConn football is winning championships, we'll have fans throughout New England.

 

[btstimpy]

Congrats on your huge 1 point home win over a PSU team that dressed under 60 scholarship players and saw its kicker miss 4 field goals and an extra point. UVA was definitely legit that Saturday LOL. Spin if you must, but the brand value of the top teams of the B1G eclipses anything the ACC could hope to roll out. Small publics, religious privates, and little brother schools. Good luck with all that.

Thank you. That same Penn State team, which you want to claim as invalid rolled through the mighty Big Ten to a 8-4 season sinking those big public flagships right and left. Shows you how tough that schedule is. I just thought it routine. The last time Penn State came to Charlottesville with Joe Pa they left with a 20-14 loss and a whimper to Al Groh's first team full of freshmen.

Those Top B1G brands do live off the glory of the 1960s and 1970s for sure. We can agree on that. But without playing Notre Dame so much anymore, perhaps we won't have to look at them as much.

 

[Nostical]

we should be able to agree that both (BC and UConn) need to get bigger crowds to their home football games moving forward.

Absolutely right. That's job #1 for both schools.