Rumor: A lot of big east teams to leave

[BlueMAB]

This is looking more and more real every minute.

What's Texas A&M to the SEC looking like?

i am still impressed by your ability to pretend that Quse/Pitt have nothing to do with the situation the big east is in, it's all on Herbst. slow clap for you waylon.

 

[BlueMAB]

More than likely due to football history and certain schools blocking UConn. The Rutgers brand is not as strong as Pitt or Cuse either but UConn is stronger than both. It's not logical that they didn't take us, it's more personal in my opinion. UConn has market share and size whereas Rutgers mainly has market size going for it. We are definitely ahead of Rutgers.

The UConn brand is stronger than Pitt/Cuse? Not in football, not even close. People need to understand the recent events on the field have nothing to do with the football brand name of the UConn/Quse/Pitt. We trail them by decades in that department and that isn't going to change overnight just because we went to a BCS game out of a bad conference.

UConn wasn't added for "personal" reasons? There are billions of dollars at stake. Other than BCU, who is blocking UConn for "personal" reasons?

Are you aware that Virginia Tech and Pitt were also part of that lawsuit? Why was the ACC able to overcome their "personal" reasons for those two schools?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The UConn brand is stronger than Pitt/Cuse? Not in football, not even close. People need to understand the recent events on the field have nothing to do with the football brand name of the UConn/Quse/Pitt. We trail them by decades in that department and that isn't going to change overnight just because we went to a BCS game out of a bad conference.

UConn wasn't added for "personal" reasons? There are billions of dollars at stake. Other than BCU, who is blocking UConn for "personal" reasons?

Are you aware that Virginia Tech and Pitt were also part of that lawsuit? Why was the ACC able to overcome their "personal" reasons for those two schools?

It's not just about football when you are talking about branding. Our overall athletic program has a much better brand than both. Our media following is among the largest of any school.

 

[BlueMAB]

It's not just about football when you are talking about branding. Our overall athletic program has a much better brand than both. Our media following is among the largest of any school.

Then why were they invited and not UConn?

Are you going to address the rest of my post, because it's pretty important. You seem to believe we are more valuable, but were left out for personal reasons. What are the "personal" reasons? Who has "personal" reasons to keep us out? Why didn't that stop V. Tech or Pitt if it's about the lawsuite?

 

[BlueMAB]

UConn will be one of the dominant sports brands in any conference we go to. There are certainly schools in the ACC that may not be comfortable with that.

One one had you say we'll be invited because we're so good and so valuable, on the other you say we weren't already invited because we're so good. You can't have it both ways.

Coach K is campaigning for UConn, I don't think he's scared.

I don't think Florida State and Clemson are worried about UConn becoming dominant in football. In fact, they are likely fighting UConn becuase of the hit the conference would take in football prestige.

I know we're all proud of our recent accomplishments, but they are nothing but a blip on the radar screen of the college football landscape. Otherwise, for that reason (and the rest in your post) Pitt/Quse wouldn't have been invited over UConn.

 

[BlueMAB]

Actually, some of us are proud of our recent accomplishments, others tear them down becuase they don't like the former coach.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I remain convinced that the Big XII sees itself, first and foremost, as a midwestern conference. While Louisville and Cincy can be called "midwest", and WVU marginally so, UConn and Rutgers are not a fit. I don't see UConn to the Big XII in any scenario. I think even the Big Ten would be far more open to expansion to the east.

I agree with WingU that this notion that somehow UConn was blocked by some personal vendetta is absurd. Even BC has no reason to act against their own interest out of some silly grudge. These are adults, and they will do what's best for them. I think the ACC went after Pitt and Syracuse because they needed to expand, and knew that those two schools, both AAU when discussions began (Cuse lost status this year), were likely targets of the Big Ten. They didn't want the academically weak WVU, or Louisville or Cincy. So they made a pre-emptive raid to get the the schools most likely to go to the Big Ten.

Now the other chess moves will play out. The Big Ten may stand pat. Or they may go for UConn and Rutgers, or raid the Big XII for Mizzou, Kansas or Iowa St. The SEC needs at least one, and if it isn't WVU or Mizzou, it has to come from the ACC (I don't think they'd take SFU).

 

[businesslawyer]

I remain convinced that the Big XII sees itself, first and foremost, as a midwestern conference. While Louisville and Cincy can be called "midwest", and WVU marginally so, UConn and Rutgers are not a fit. I don't see UConn to the Big XII in any scenario. I think even the Big Ten would be far more open to expansion to the east.

I agree with WingU that this notion that somehow UConn was blocked by some personal vendetta is absurd. Even BC has no reason to act against their own interest out of some silly grudge. These are adults, and they will do what's best for them. I think the ACC went after Pitt and Syracuse because they needed to expand, and knew that those two schools, both AAU when discussions began (Cuse lost status this year), were likely targets of the Big Ten. They didn't want the academically weak WVU, or Louisville or Cincy. So they made a pre-emptive raid to get the the schools most likely to go to the Big Ten.

Now the other chess moves will play out. The Big Ten may stand pat. Or they may go for UConn and Rutgers, or raid the Big XII for Mizzou, Kansas or Iowa St. The SEC needs at least one, and if it isn't WVU or Mizzou, it has to come from the ACC (I don't think they'd take SFU).

UConn is not being kept out of the ACC because of the lawsuit 7 years ago. It would be neither surprising nor irrational, however, if BC was trying to keep us out of the ACC because they'd prefer not to have the competition.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

UConn is not being kept out of the ACC because of the lawsuit 7 years ago. It would be neither surprising nor irrational, however, if BC was trying to keep us out of the ACC because they'd prefer not to have the competition.

BC knows that all things being equal we will be the dominant college sports brand in New England. IMO we already are.

 

[Hoophound]

Then why were they invited and not UConn?

Are you going to address the rest of my post, because it's pretty important. You seem to believe we are more valuable, but were left out for personal reasons. What are the "personal" reasons? Who has "personal" reasons to keep us out? Why didn't that stop V. Tech or Pitt if it's about the lawsuite?

Redux of an old post I made:

The ACC took Pitt and Syracuse first for 1 and maybe 2 reasons. First, they were the logical geographical adds for the B10. By adding them, they took them from the B10's reach. Now UCONN and Rutgers, which are geographically less appealing to the B10, are available for the ACC whenever they wish. If the ACC took UCONN and Rutty first, the B10 might have grabbed Pitt and SU before the ACC had a chance. Neither conference would add all four at once because they want ND, Texas or both and are saving room for them at this point.

Second, UCONN was loyal to the Big East and didn't ask the ACC for membership. Pitt and SU were opportunisitc and quietly asked for admittance. It was easy for the ACC and a brilliant move.

UCONN is not a small market, it is a med/semi-large market school. It generates big revenue and is a national brand.. It is also the best basketball school (men's and women's) in the country. It is strong academically and has the support of the state. The football program has steadily improved and has been heavily invested in including some of the very best facilities in the country. UCONN is not a lesser add than Pitt or Cuse in any sense. It is a less strategic add at this point. Again, brilliant work by the ACC, but not a knock on UCONN.​

 

[BlueMAB]

Redux of an old post I made:

The ACC took Pitt and Syracuse first for 1 and maybe 2 reasons. First, they were the logical geographical adds for the B10. By adding them, they took them from the B10's reach. Now UCONN and Rutgers, which are geographically less appealing to the B10, are available for the ACC whenever they wish. If the ACC took UCONN and Rutty first, the B10 might have grabbed Pitt and SU before the ACC had a chance. Neither conference would add all four at once because they want ND, Texas or both and are saving room for them at this point.​

Second, UCONN was loyal to the Big East and didn't ask the ACC for membership. Pitt and SU were opportunisitc and quietly asked for admittance. It was easy for the ACC and a brilliant move.​

UCONN is not a small market, it is a med/semi-large market school. It generates big revenue and is a national brand.. It is also the best basketball school (men's and women's) in the country. It is strong academically and has the support of the state. The football program has steadily improved and has been heavily invested in including some of the very best facilities in the country. UCONN is not a lesser add than Pitt or Cuse in any sense. It is a less strategic add at this point. Again, brilliant work by the ACC, but not a knock on UCONN.​

If UConn is more valuable than Pitt/Cuse, then why not let the Big 10 have them, and take UConn/RU? Or take UConn first with one of the others.

It doesn't make sense for the ACC to saddle themselves with inferior products, while leaving a superior product on the shelf, the hopes of gaining ND, who is the cream of the crop.

If they want to add ND, they should have made their conference the most valuable by adding the team you guys believe is most valuable, UConn. Isn't that a stronger incentive to get ND into the ACC than adding inferior products?

If UConn is so valuable, why not take us now and go to 13 like the SEC is doing with A&M?

With UConn/Quse/Pitt in the ACC, the Big East is dead. Take UConn now, and you force the Big 10/ND to make a move. You take the second most valuable product away from the Big 10, giving ND fewer reasons to join the Big 10, and more reason to join the ACC. Following your logic, UConn would already have given notice that we are gone, or will be doing so very soon.

I believe we are valuable, don't misunderstand my point. I also think some posters overvalue UConn with respect to our market. College football is not important in the northeast, and this is about football more than anything else. If that were not true, UConn would be on our way to the ACC already for all of the reasons you guys use to describe our value.

 

[CTFootball]

Let's hope not. Any chance of stopping this exodus evaporated around the time Herbst decided not to show up to the meeting in New York with the other football schools. Now she may be reduced to begging them to drag us along.

I still have more confidence in her abilities than yours......

 

[HartbeatHusky]

College football is not important in the northeast, and this is about football more than anything else. If that were not true, UConn would be on our way to the ACC already for all of the reasons you guys use to describe our value.

College basketall rules the northeast and UConn rules college basketball. Therefore we are pretty much the most valuable college sports brand in the northeast.

 

[BlueMAB]

College basketall rules the northeast and UConn rules college basketball. Therefore we are pretty much the most valuable college sports brand in the northeast.

Yet, here we are on the outside looking in.

Is your refusal to address my points that challenge your opinion a coincidence or an admission?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Yet, here we are on the outside looking in.

Is your refusal to address my points that challenge your opinion a coincidence or an admission?

Just don't really want to write anything too long winded. This is all a matter of opinion anyway. I don't there is any contradiction with saying that we are a threat to dominance so some schools don't want us and we are very valuable so we will not be left homeless. It is definitely not an admission that I agree that we are less valuable than Pitt or Cuse.....

 

[upstater]

The UConn brand is stronger than Pitt/Cuse? Not in football, not even close. People need to understand the recent events on the field have nothing to do with the football brand name of the UConn/Quse/Pitt. We trail them by decades in that department and that isn't going to change overnight just because we went to a BCS game out of a bad conference.

UConn wasn't added for "personal" reasons? There are billions of dollars at stake. Other than BCU, who is blocking UConn for "personal" reasons?

Are you aware that Virginia Tech and Pitt were also part of that lawsuit? Why was the ACC able to overcome their "personal" reasons for those two schools?

Take it up with Blaudschun, he's the guy that reported it. There was a Villanova guy who was saying that the ACC wanted UConn for weeks before the Cuse and Pitt news came up.

 

[Hoophound]

If UConn is more valuable than Pitt/Cuse, then why not let the Big 10 have them, and take UConn/RU? Or take UConn first with one of the others.

It doesn't make sense for the ACC to saddle themselves with inferior products, while leaving a superior product on the shelf, the hopes of gaining ND, who is the cream of the crop.

If they want to add ND, they should have made their conference the most valuable by adding the team you guys believe is most valuable, UConn. Isn't that a stronger incentive to get ND into the ACC than adding inferior products?

If UConn is so valuable, why not take us now and go to 13 like the SEC is doing with A&M?

With UConn/Quse/Pitt in the ACC, the Big East is dead. Take UConn now, and you force the Big 10/ND to make a move. You take the second most valuable product away from the Big 10, giving ND fewer reasons to join the Big 10, and more reason to join the ACC. Following your logic, UConn would already have given notice that we are gone, or will be doing so very soon.

I believe we are valuable, don't misunderstand my point. I also think some posters overvalue UConn with respect to our market. College football is not important in the northeast, and this is about football more than anything else. If that were not true, UConn would be on our way to the ACC already for all of the reasons you guys use to describe our value.

You are being too dramatic about it. Each move creates resulting moves. The ACC wants ND and will wait them out. In the meantime, they have taken the B10's logical geographical and institutional options off the shelf. If ND commits to the B10, Rutgers and UCONN probably go to the ACC. If ND commits to the ACC, either Rutty or UCONN goes to the ACC. If ND remains indy, UCONN and Rutgers sit and wait until the ACC sees the needed revenue in adding them. This was a great power play by the ACC on the B10. It is so simple to see that I don't understand why we have this discussion at this point. If the Big 10 wants to expand in the east they have to fly over their 2 most logical choices (Pitt and Cuse) to do it. The odds of the B10 nabbing Rutgers and UCONN was less than the odds of them adding Cuse and Pitt. Swofford is a smart mother f''r.

 

[BlueMAB]

Just don't really want to write anything too long winded. This is all a matter of opinion anyway. I don't there is any contradiction with saying that we are a threat to dominance so some schools don't want us and we are very valuable so we will not be left homeless. It is definitely not an admission that I agree that we are less valuable than Pitt or Cuse.....

I suppose. I just don't understand the argument that UConn will find a home because we are more valuable than Quse/Pitt, yet we were left out of the ACC for Quse/Pitt. The idea that the ACC took two less valuable teams to keep another conference from getting them doesn't make sense.

With UNC, Duke, Maryland, and some others in the ACC, they are not worried about the strength of basketball and your pronouncement that UConn owns college basketball is pretty silly, IMO. Kansas, UNC, Duke would beg to differ. College basketball has very little to do with realignment. It's a factor, but if it was as important as you want it to be, the big east never would have fallen apart in the first place.

 

[noeynox]

You are underestimating that BC is working real hard to keep UConn out. Also don't forget Donna Shalala statement in 2003 that the U would never play at Rentchler. That is two no votes right there.

 

[weyuo]

Reasons why we would be blocked from the ACC:
1) Women's basketball! We have been spanking NC and Duke on a regular basis the last few years and the others know they wouldn't even stand a dog's chance in hell. Adding UConn women to the ACC would evaporate any hope for a BC or VA. Tech to win an ACC title.
2) Men's basketball! For the next couple years you can pretty much pencil UConn in the ACC title game. The coaching staff will just keep improving and so will the recruiting. That snowball effect Geno had in recruiting is about to start on the men's side.

3) Football! They see what we did in 12 short years. They see we've just brought in a vastly superior coaching staff so for the foreseeable future the program is just going to get better and better and will eventually overtake everyone in the ACC recruiting wise. In saying that I am assuming that Fla. St and Clemson will eventually be sucked into the SEC.
4) I don't think UConn has completely shaken off that "party school" reputation. Some of the ACC schools might not take UConn academics as serious.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The idea that the ACC took two less valuable teams to keep another conference from getting them doesn't make sense.

This is why we don't agree because this makes perfect sense to me. And don't get me wrong, Cuse and Pitt are marquee schools as well. I just don't think we are less valuable than them and are actually more valuable.

 

[BlueMAB]

Take it up with Blaudschun, he's the guy that reported it. There was a Villanova guy who was saying that the ACC wanted UConn for weeks before the Cuse and Pitt news came up.

Was that Villanova guy John Rowland?

If we're allowed to rely on any little rumor you want to believe, over what we know to be true, then there's no point in having these discussions.

Do you have a link from anyone that says UConn was invited to the ACC and turned it down? If so, heads should roll at UConn, and nelson should forever be banned for blaming Herbst on the collapse of the Big East.

 

[BlueMAB]

Reasons why we would be blocked from the ACC:
1) Women's basketball! We have been spanking NC and Duke on a regular basis the last few years and the others know they wouldn't even stand a dog's chance in hell. Adding UConn women to the ACC would evaporate any hope for a BC or VA. Tech to win an ACC title.
2) Men's basketball! For the next couple years you can pretty much pencil UConn in the ACC title game. The coaching staff will just keep improving and so will the recruiting. That snowball effect Geno had in recruiting is about to start on the men's side.

3) Football! They see what we did in 12 short years. They see we've just brought in a vastly superior coaching staff so for the foreseeable future the program is just going to get better and better and will eventually overtake everyone in the ACC recruiting wise. In saying that I am assuming that Fla. St and Clemson will eventually be sucked into the SEC.
4) I don't think UConn has completely shaken off that "party school" reputation. Some of the ACC schools might not take UConn academics as serious.

LOL, great job.

 

[upstater]

I suppose. I just don't understand the argument that UConn will find a home because we are more valuable than Quse/Pitt, yet we were left out of the ACC for Quse/Pitt. The idea that the ACC took two less valuable teams to keep another conference from getting them doesn't make sense.

With UNC, Duke, Maryland, and some others in the ACC, they are not worried about the strength of basketball and your pronouncement that UConn owns college basketball is pretty silly, IMO. Kansas, UNC, Duke would beg to differ. College basketball has very little to do with realignment. It's a factor, but if it was as important as you want it to be, the big east never would have fallen apart in the first place.

The Globe's top college sports reporter said BC blackballed UConn in committee. As for the BE, it was unwieldy. Do I believe basketball figures into the ACCs thinking heavily? Yes. I do. UConn in the ACC would make the conference a one stop shop for the nation's top talent.

 

[BlueMAB]

This is why we don't agree because this makes perfect sense to me. And don't get me wrong, Cuse and Pitt are marquee schools as well. I just don't think we are less valuable than them and are actually more valuable.

Then explain it.

How are you helped by weakening your brand, and leaving stronger/better opportunities available to be obtained your competition?

Why is the ACC stronger with two weaker programs than UConn, instead of with UConn?