Rumor: A lot of big east teams to leave

[upstater]

Was that Villanova guy John Rowland?

If we're allowed to rely on any little rumor you want to believe, over what we know to be true, then there's no point in having these discussions.

Do you have a link from anyone that says UConn was invited to the ACC and turned it down? If so, heads should roll at UConn, and nelson should forever be banned for blaming Herbst on the collapse of the Big East.

Mark Blauschun reported that UConn was the ACC's first selection. You can call him a liar, go ahead.

 

[BlueMAB]

The Globe's top college sports reporter said BC blackballed UConn in committee. As for the BE, it was unwieldy. Do I believe basketball figures into the ACCs thinking heavily? Yes. I do. UConn in the ACC would make the conference a one stop shop for the nation's top talent.

That's one vote.

Who are the other 2/3?

Basketball is important, is it most important? No, it's not.

 

[BlueMAB]

Mark Blauschun reported that UConn was the ACC's first selection. You can call him a liar, go ahead.

If a reporter is told something, and he reports it, and it turns out to be false, the reporter is not a liar. The person who fed him the story is. You're smart enough to know that aren't you?

Why aren't we in the ACC if we were their top choice? Who at UConn was responsible for turning down the ACC?

Did the ACC go back to UConn and say "Quse/Pitt are ready to come, do you want to reconsider?"

 

[orangehomer]

College basketall rules the northeast and UConn rules college basketball. Therefore we are pretty much the most valuable college sports brand in the northeast.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsm...-big-east-schools-in-mens-basketball-revenue/

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Then explain it.

How are you helped by weakening your brand, and leaving stronger/better opportunities available to be obtained your competition?

Why is the ACC stronger with two weaker programs than UConn, instead of with UConn?

You make it seem like I'm calling them dregs. Look, the ACC is a basketball conference like the Big East and I'll admit that Pitt and Cuse have more football credibility than us due primarily to longer history competing at the top level. That football history is also the very reason why Pitt and Cuse would be more likely candidates for the Big 10 than UConn as well as geography. The ACC does not want to Big 10 to enter the northeastern market and also there is already a school in the ACC who views us as a regional threat to their own market and some schools that may feel like our football is ready yet. It's very complex and there are plenty of moving parts but the bottom line is really that UConn has more votes against us compared to Pitt and Cuse so the easiest thing to do was add Pitt and Cuse which is still a damn good get for the ACC.

 

[upstater]

If a reporter is told something, and he reports it, and it turns out to be false, the reporter is not a liar. The person who fed him the story is. You're smart enough to know that aren't you?

Why aren't we in the ACC if we were their top choice? Who at UConn was responsible for turning down the ACC?

Did the ACC go back to UConn and say "Quse/Pitt are ready to come, do you want to reconsider?"

Your logic leaves a lot to be desired. For the umpteenth time, he did NOT report that UConn was offered the ACC and rejected it. he reported that UConn was the first choice and that BC prevented it. Blaudschun is very in tune with college sports. How difficult is this for you to understand anyway?

 

[upstater]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsm...-big-east-schools-in-mens-basketball-revenue/

Totally bogus.

I don't doubt Syracuse makes more revenues given its ticket sales. BUT, Forbes is comparing apples to oranges. Whereas UConn looks at contributions to the AD, Louisville adds them by sports. They even include student fees and direct academic support by sport, including TV revenues. It's an apples to oranges comparison, and Forbes simply is too lazy to break it all down. That actual figures for the publics are available at both IndyStar and USAToday and they tell a very different story.

 

[upstater]

That's one vote.

Who are the other 2/3?

Basketball is important, is it most important? No, it's not.

What 2/3 are you talking about? UConn hasn't applied. We're talking about the expansion committee. Pay attention.

 

[jpm25]

What I dont get is, you know someone is going to 16 and that will start it all. SO why is everyone so slow to do it. There are only so many worthy programs. One of the Big 4 is going to be left with a less than disireable situation if they don't grab the next best thing. It's a game of chicken waiting on Notre Dame.

so slow?

 

[businesslawyer]

You are underestimating that BC is working real hard to keep UConn out. Also don't forget Donna Shalala statement in 2003 that the U would never play at Rentchler. That is two no votes right there.

So let me understand this. Shalala is a liar, and we should believe nothing she ever says. Except bad things she said about UConn almost a decade ago?

 

[upstater]

so slow?

I agree with his logic. If ND agreed to go to the ACC today, the Big10 would be severely limited.

I'm guessing that the Big10 feels it could pull in Maryland, Missouri, Texas, etc., any time it wants. I bet they're wrong. Missouri, for one, is permanently gone to the SEC if they join because you sign away your TV rights in that league. Just like the Big10. We're talking Hotel California here: you can check out any time you like, but you can't ever leave. Maybe if the Big10 loses ND, they're just fine with Maryland, Rutgers, Kansas and Kansas St. (or Texas and Texas Tech).

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

That's one vote (BC). Who are the other 2/3? Basketball is important, is it most important? No, it's not.

Joining all of the other conjecturers pulling speculative facts out of their collective back sides, one SWAG suggests FSU and Miami. Before the latter's dingleberry (BCU) clung along for the ride, Miami and FSU reportedly were in ACC cahoots. Along with speculative media reports and other rumors that FSU may have pushed for a historically traditional football program, it wouldn't be too surprising to learn Shalala's influence remains a factor. Yup, almost as definitive as most of the prior facts in this thread.

 

[BlueMAB]

What 2/3 are you talking about? UConn hasn't applied. We're talking about the expansion committee. Pay attention.

If you're going to be so smug, perhaps you can explain how one school has the power to veto a potential candidate that the rest of the committee wants as it's first choice.

Because you do realize that there are 12 schools in the expansion committee, right? How many schools are in the ACC? 12?

My logic sucks, but you seem to be arguing that BCU didn't want UConn, but the rest of the conference wanted UConn first. At least according to Blaudschun. However, BCU has enough power to prevent the rest from getting their first choice.

And MY logic leaves a lot to be desired?

 

[MTHusky]

The Big XII making a strong move to survive the shakeup can only push other conferences to act quickly. If 16 is a desireable number, and while I don't understand why it should be that seems to be what the networks are saying (because otherwise none of this would be happening), there are not enough tier one programs out there to have 5 sixteen team conferences. The Big XII was supposed to go away in this scenario. An attempt by the Big XII to move east (and if you're going to Morgantown and Cincinnati for the life of me I can't see why you wouldn't go to metro New York -- a long plane ride doesn't change with an extra few hundred miles on the end of it) forces the ACC, and to a lesser degree the SEC and Big Ten, to act now or find it much harder to expand in the future.

Of course, logic has been such a useless tool to explain how we are where we are now ....

Like the thinking and tend to agree that is the Big 12-11-10-9-8 whatever makes a push to expand then the ACC, Big 10 and the SEC will need to move fast

 

[tduconn]

No one is blocking UConn to the ACC or (name your poison) more than UConn itself.

Everyone has to do a gut check and realize these moves are for football. The ACC, no matter how good UConn basketball is, don't need them to upgrade the conference image of ACC BB. They have had their own brand recognition in BB for decades and there was never any talk about that side of the equation suffering. The first raid was to to put successful FB brands in their conference. The second raid was again for FB and megaconferences leading perhaps to a FB playoff system and "mega bucks".

UConn has never been a powerhouse in 1-A football. In fact quite the opposite in terms of offensive production. There was a posting concerning perception of Maryland football after its last loss to Temple. (I give credit to Temple because they have and continue to build a nice program under Golden and Addazio.....they are Not the old BE Temple) What was the perception stated on radio talk shows....."looks like High School football".

What do you think the perception of UConn FB is outside, and perhaps inside CT? I'm sorry to say, more than a handful of my neighbors, co workers, friends (all supporters of UC) do not consider UC a BCS caliber team. As far as offense goes, has it ever been (collectively) in the top 80% of BCS teams? (I'm not talking about the run game......I'm referencing the whole offensive scheme.) I don't think Joe Morehead has been able to assemble an exciting offense since he has been here. (Not criticizing Joe or the other coaches....you can only work with what you have)

Who is blocking UConn from getting an invite to a "super conference".......By the way we play football......it could be any number of the well established FB teams in any conference.......but I think UC's biggest roadblock is UC itself.

This is all about FB......no matter what any other sport brings to the table........and right now UConn will not come close to being in the upper tier of any BCS league other than BE FB.

I'm sorry. I get it....it's a young program. And its growing. As much as I hate to take off my rose colored glasses......UConn FB is not that good. ....... I don't think other conferences and their fans want and/or need an "up and coming" FB program.

And I'm extremely worried as a fan because of the national perception of UC FB. I trust in Herbst, and maybe Burton has influential contacts and "knows the national college FB scene". I hope Herbst can pull it off and get UC into a "mega conference"......it may really be a hard challenge

 

[HuskyHawk]

Good grief, how quickly do you think this can happen? It's not like these leagues are together in a room somewhere, with the SEC saying to the Big XII, I'll trade you an Arkansas for A&M, but I need an FSU from the ACC.

Take Missouri for example. Decent school. Decent athletics. Good markets. Their three biggest rivals are (1) Illinois (2) Kansas and (3) Arkansas. Three different leagues. So who wants them? Big XII does. Does SEC? Maybe? Does B1G? Who knows. Nebraska was a surprise. Would the B1G take Iowa St. or Kansas, or do they prefer UConn or Rutgers? Do they really still want ND? The ACC does, but are the Irish just stringing them along (probably). Would Penn St. defect to the ACC (doubtful)? Every conceivable scenario is in play, and we don't know what these conferences and schools really want. All of this is conjecture.

This is high stakes poker, and nobody wants to put their cards on the table. If you move suddenly you may do well, or you may box yourself in. The ACC made the first move. The Big XII called a bluff from the Pac 12. Why did the ACC make the move? What did they suspect? An SEC raid on FSU and GT? A move by the Big Ten for Pitt and Cuse? Both?

Eventually another domino will fall.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Bladschun has missed the mark or been behind on stories at multiple points throughout this realignment process, so I would not find it hard to believe that a story he wrote lacked complete truth or was blatantly false.

 

[upstater]

If you're going to be so smug, perhaps you can explain how one school has the power to veto a potential candidate that the rest of the committee wants as it's first choice.

Because you do realize that there are 12 schools in the expansion committee, right? How many schools are in the ACC? 12?

My logic sucks, but you seem to be arguing that BCU didn't want UConn, but the rest of the conference wanted UConn first. At least according to Blaudschun. However, BCU has enough power to prevent the rest from getting their first choice.

And MY logic leaves a lot to be desired?

When it comes to voting after a member has applied, that's when the 75% comes into force. As for the ways committees work, it operates on the veto principle. You support a fellow member's veto out of principle for fear that your veto would be disrespected in a similar circumstance. It's the way the world works. Even the EU puts up with crazy requests out of the same consideration. While policies are enacted with 2/3rds of the vote, vetoes are always respected even if they lead to big trouble. The EU has been talking forever about requiring that more than one member needs to support a veto, but they have never managed to get up the courage to actually enact that legislation.

Again, this is based on Blaudschun. The point is, there was never a vote that would have required 3/4s of the ACC to be in favor of UConn.

When I wrote that your logic leaves a lot to be desired, I was referring to how you twice wrote, after I quoted Blaudschun, that UConn was offered but rejected it. That's the logic I couldn't comprehend.

 

[jpm25]

I agree with his logic. If ND agreed to go to the ACC today, the Big10 would be severely limited.

I'm guessing that the Big10 feels it could pull in Maryland, Missouri, Texas, etc., any time it wants. I bet they're wrong. Missouri, for one, is permanently gone to the SEC if they join because you sign away your TV rights in that league. Just like the Big10. We're talking Hotel California here: you can check out any time you like, but you can't ever leave. Maybe if the Big10 loses ND, they're just fine with Maryland, Rutgers, Kansas and Kansas St. (or Texas and Texas Tech).

I agree too, actually, I just don't think this process is moving slowly. It's actually breakneck pace when you consider that decisions are being made by institutions with hundred-year histories.

 

[jpm25]

Actually, some of us are proud of our recent accomplishments, others tear them down becuase they don't like the former coach.

and yet a third group puts our accomplishments into a historical and fact-driven context, while at the same time being no less proud than any group.

 

[noeynox]

Since we are going to infer things no one said bizlaw, your right I am sure shalala is advocating for us as we type.

 

[BlueMAB]

upstater-

Again, I find it hard to believe that 11 of the 12 schools wanted UConn, and instead they took Quse/Pitt just because BCU was against it. And it has nothing to do with how the EU, or UN, or NATO, or your high school model UN operates.

 

[BlueMAB]

and yet a third group puts our accomplishments into a historical and fact-driven context, while at the same time being no less proud than any group.

8ullsh1t

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

You're all assuming an informal vote was taken on UConn and it was flatly unsuccessful, and that is the reason we were not invited. Another very real possibility could have been the ACC wanted to make a pre-emptive move to block the B1G and Big 12 from expanding east, so they took the two most logical B1G and Big 12targets that they (the ACC) was interested in themselves. UConn was never rumored to be a school either the B1G or the Big 12 was interested in, so the smart move in this scenario for the ACC is to take Pitt and SU, knowing that UConn very likely will be there for the picking if they decide to go further, whereas Pitt and SU may very well be in the B1g (SU) or Big 12 (Pitt). Don't forget the multiple reports that came out as saying the Big 12 was very, very close to moving on Pitt before the ACC swooped in. And SU had long been a target of the B1G to move into the NYC area.

 

[BlueMAB]

This was a great power play by the ACC on the B10. It is so simple to see that I don't understand why we have this discussion at this point.

When did I say this was a bad move by the ACC? This was a great power play. I never said otherwise. I'm not being dramatic, I'm being realistic, look at my first post in the thread (page 2) and maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from. Hartbeat Husky, IMO, couldn't defend his position with that information. If you agree with him, maybe you can.