Rough night for Hurley

[NJHoops]

Hurley is still learning how to manage big time games. I was underwhelmed watching Rhody in the NCAAs when he put together a solid team.

When they upset Creighton and beat Oklahoma and barely lost to eventual Final Four team Oregon? The only bad game was Duke, which was the worst possible match-up for an undersized team.

 

[BlueDogs]

When they upset Creighton and beat Oklahoma and barely lost to eventual Final Four team Oregon? The only bad game was Duke, which was the worst possible match-up for an undersized team.

That’s one perspective. He didn’t make it out of week one. Got pounded by Duke. I thought the Oregon game got away from him. Be that as it may, not suggesting he’s a bad coach. Suggesting he has some cycles to go through. Took Calhoun many years to reach the pinnacle.

 

[Bulldog]

That’s one perspective. He didn’t make it out of week one. Got pounded by Duke. I thought the Oregon game got away from him. Be that as it may, not suggesting he’s a bad coach. Suggesting he has some cycles to go through. Took Calhoun many years to reach the pinnacle.

Yeah everybody just take a breath. Calhoun, in my opinion a top 5 coach of all time, won the NIT in 89, and then took a decade to get to a final four. CV is what he is, a hustle player, scrappy, rebounds, usually makes free throws. He is not a point guard. AG was a McDonald AA point guard. He has never been able to play at that in college. Not all his fault. I thought Gaffney would be a little more serviceable than he’s shown. So that’s where we’re at. We don’t have a proven reliable point guard who can be trusted at crunch time. Unfortunately that’s the most important position in college hoops.
So let’s give DH this season to deal with this shortcoming because it’s not going away.
I’m concerned about next year. I think Coles can handle the point but then what. Gaffney needs to up his game. Bouknight and Jackson can each handle the 2 along with BA. So that’s more than covered. I think a high quality PG should be a priority. Recruit or transfer, whatever is available.

 

[David 76]

Could DH benefit from his George Blaney?? A senior level former HC to help him in game

Not a bad idea. But I would hate to lose either of our assistants.

 

[imno1]

Could DH benefit from his George Blaney?? A senior level former HC to help him in game

he's already got one in an unpaid advisor Hurley Sr.

 

[tentoes4rings]

he's already got one in an unpaid advisor Hurley Sr.

And despite not being that old, Tom Moore would qualify I think. Based on the 40 or so games he’s coached at UConn DH has been an average game coach at best. Has 2-3 really good wins but too many games like Xavier and Indiana that we should have never lost. The recruiting is there, program development as well. Let’s just hope his in game coaching catches up.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Could DH benefit from his George Blaney?? A senior level former HC to help him in game

No. He’s a great, experienced coach. He will figure it out. Plus as others noted, Moore is very solid.

My uninformed.02 is that he coached at Wagner and URI where the only way he could win was by relying on veterans. He is reluctant to put freshmen or sophomore guards in key situations and trust them. Akok plays a lot as a freshman but he doesn’t have the ball in his hands. Aside from KEA and Chris Smith I don’t recall JC being fond of that either. DH waits too long to start subbing the starters. If he feels Vital should start, fine, get him out by the 3-4 minute mark. Get Polley out by the five minute mark. By the time AG comes out he can play Gaffney with a rested Vital and Adams as a cushion.

Hurley is adapting to high major basketball. The opponents are better. The freshmen are better. The guys who play four years aren’t your most talented guys in most cases. For this team to be ready for league play he has to get Bouk and Gaffney to the point that he can trust them in key moments of games. Adams too. Vital is what he is and he’s too talent limited to be the lead dog for the offense, even with his improved decision making prior to IU. Bouknight is a much bigger threat when he plays with AG, Akok, Carlton and Polley. They can’t double team him.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Is this something that really needs an explanation?

He asked.
Would it hurt you to answer?
I'd also be interested in your answer.

 

[Huskybass]

And despite not being that old, Tom Moore would qualify I think. Based on the 40 or so games he’s coached at UConn DH has been an average game coach at best. Has 2-3 really good wins but too many games like Xavier and Indiana that we should have never lost. The recruiting is there, program development as well. Let’s just hope his in game coaching catches up.

It's hard to be a great in game coach when your veteran guards play low basketball IQ basketball. I am certain he will look like a much better game coach next season. It is shocking to watch veteran guards who still don't get it after years of playing D1 ball. It's like they both channel their inner John Starks at times. Puzzling to say the least.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

And despite not being that old, Tom Moore would qualify I think. Based on the 40 or so games he’s coached at UConn DH has been an average game coach at best. Has 2-3 really good wins but too many games like Xavier and Indiana that we should have never lost. The recruiting is there, program development as well. Let’s just hope his in game coaching catches up.

With the book still out, srikes me as pretty good for year 2.

 

[Excalibur]

He asked.
Would it hurt you to answer?
I'd also be interested in your answer.

His answer is that everything is coaching.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

He asked.
Would it hurt you to answer?
I'd also be interested in your answer.

Anyone that has coached any level has had to teach players the difference between bad and good shots. And every coach at every level in basketball has also had to have a similar conversation with the team's leading scorer(s).

Coaching shot selection occurs in the first month of practice of the first year of playing town league basketball in 3rd grade. Some players get more flexibility than others, but that is always a relative assessment. In other words, the star may have a bright green light if the team around him (or her) sucks, but if there are other shot makers around the star, then the star needs to cool it with the crazy shots. And even if there aren't other shot makers, sometimes the star needs to give up the ball, work to get open, and get the ball back. Keep the defense honest.

Vital and Gilbert take insane shots, and neither of them is anywhere close to the best option on the team for shot making. Polley and Bouk are better from outside, and Carlton needs touches in the paint. Vital's 33% from deep is misleading because I suspect he is over 40% when he shoots off the catch, and is probably hitting about 1 out of 6 of his pull up 3 point attempts.

None of this is that hard to figure out, and part of coaching is teaching an offense, and then rewarding those who make plays within the offense, and punishing those that don't. Playing time is the easiest reward system there is.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I will add that a lot of "old school" coaches, like Hurley, tend to "let the players play", and are often more tolerant of bad shots. Looking at the extremes, teams like Villanova are heavily influenced by analytics which drives shot selection, while Syracuse has played pickup basketball for my entire lifetime. I am not talking about the offensive construction and movement, but instead about where and when players are told to shoot.

I like Hurley's offensive motion, but he tolerates a lot of bad shots in this offense.

 

[husky429]

Pretty sure calhoun was 47 when he won the 89 NIT. And 57 for the first natty. Hurley is still learning, just like the players. It will come.

 

[Purple Stein]

Hurley is still learning how to manage big time games. I was underwhelmed watching Rhody in the NCAAs when he put together a solid team. I think I see a strong coach developing players, bringing in talent and motivating them. Not sure he is a Hall of Fame in-game tactician. Got to give him some time to adjust and grow too.

Hurley is really just starting down the path we already completed with JC. In the end, we won a lot -- but Calhoun/we lost a lot of big games along the way.

This has nothing to do with Indiana, obviously, but I think we have to accept that DH can't just pick up where JC left off. We're a part of DH's journey now, and hopefully it's going great places. But he has to figure out how bright the lights are and how to win big games. To do that, he's likely going to have to lose -- a lot.

A long way of saying -- you have to get Christian Laettnered before you get to the promised land...

 

[husky429]

I will add that a lot of "old school" coaches, like Hurley, tend to "let the players play", and are often more tolerant of bad shots. Looking at the extremes, teams like Villanova are heavily influenced by analytics which drives shot selection, while Syracuse has played pickup basketball for my entire lifetime. I am not talking about the offensive construction and movement, but instead about where and when players are told to shoot.

I like Hurley's offensive motion, but he tolerates a lot of bad shots in this offense.

Imo you are exactly the opposite of correct. But the reality could be somewhere in the middle.

Old school coaches pull kids for early 3s and things like that because they want to run the offense.

New school is predicated on shooting any time you are open. That you may get the best shot available in a possession at 5 seconds into the shot clock. So take it. That early shot clock 3 we might consider "bad" is a better shot than we might expect analytically speaking. New school guys believe in that.

 

[mauconnfan]

Pretty sure calhoun was 47 when he won the 89 NIT. And 57 for the first natty. Hurley is still learning, just like the players. It will come.

But let's not compare the rosters while saying this. Calhouns 2nd year had baseball and soccer players on the roster to fill in for what should have been schollies.

Still Danny is doing fine, he's young still learning but in a good place as we speak. Players need to step it up for him.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Imo you are exactly the opposite of correct. But the reality could be somewhere in the middle.

Old school coaches pull kids for early 3s and things like that because they want to run the offense.

New school is predicated on shooting any time you are open. That you may get the best shot available in a possession at 5 seconds into the shot clock. So take it. That early shot clock 3 we might consider "bad" is a better shot than we might expect analytically speaking. New school guys believe in that.

There is more to it than that. Moneyball has changed every sport, and I would argue it has changed basketball more than even baseball. Carmelo Anthony would still be a star player in the NBA if it hadn't. Modern coaches, even at the youth level, take a much more statistical driven approach to coaching than coaches used even 10 years ago.

Analytics dictates that all shots should occur at the 3 point line or at the hoop. Mid-range shots are bad, because they are lower percentage but earn the same number of points as a dunk or layup. While there is a little more debate on pull-up jumpers vs. catch-and-shoot, increasingly coaches are pushing players to shoot off the catch rather than the dribble.

I think Hardaway in Memphis takes analytics too far. I have only seen two Memphis games this season, but players were passing up open mid-range shots to take contested 3's.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Anyone that has coached any level has had to teach players the difference between bad and good shots. And every coach at every level in basketball has also had to have a similar conversation with the team's leading scorer(s).

Coaching shot selection occurs in the first month of practice of the first year of playing town league basketball in 3rd grade. Some players get more flexibility than others, but that is always a relative assessment. In other words, the star may have a bright green light if the team around him (or her) sucks, but if there are other shot makers around the star, then the star needs to cool it with the crazy shots. And even if there aren't other shot makers, sometimes the star needs to give up the ball, work to get open, and get the ball back. Keep the defense honest.

Vital and Gilbert take insane shots, and neither of them is anywhere close to the best option on the team for shot making. Polley and Bouk are better from outside, and Carlton needs touches in the paint. Vital's 33% from deep is misleading because I suspect he is over 40% when he shoots off the catch, and is probably hitting about 1 out of 6 of his pull up 3 point attempts.

None of this is that hard to figure out, and part of coaching is teaching an offense, and then rewarding those who make plays within the offense, and punishing those that don't. Playing time is the easiest reward system there is.

Thank you for fleshing out your point of view. It has elevated the subsequent discussion.

"None of this is hard to figure out," however, isn't helpful...whether to a message board audience you'd like to educate, or a coach you'd like to persuade toward your way of seeing things.

And what of those who regard "punishment" as counterproductive, or lesser in value than learning from mistakes and preparing with new awarenesses?

I still see 2019 as getting things ready for 2020. If I'm wrong in being hopeful for the new calendar year, then I'll own it, but also not imagine that it's because Hurley didn't listen to the wide variety of suggestions here.

Somebody's take is going to align with what happens, but I don't think it will be regarded as prescient genius.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Thank you for fleshing out your point of view. It has elevated the subsequent discussion.

"None of this is hard to figure out," however, isn't helpful...whether to a message board audience you'd like to educate, or a coach you'd like to persuade toward your way of seeing things.

And what of those who regard "punishment" as counterproductive, or lesser in value than learning from mistakes and preparing with new awarenesses?

I still see 2019 as getting things ready for 2020. If I'm wrong in being hopeful for the new calendar year, then I'll own it, but also not imagine that it's because Hurley didn't listen to the wide variety of suggestions here.

Somebody's take is going to align with what happens, but I don't think it will be regarded as prescient genius.

When I say "none of this is hard to figure out", I am pointing out that there are statistics for most of what I am saying. Good shot selection is not just an opinion.

I do think there is a role for "old school" approaches with intangibles like confidence, and skills are as or more important than strategy in basketball. That said, the team that takes the most high percentage shots will usually win, particularly if the teams are evenly matched. UConn is taking a lot of low percentage shots, and it is hurting the Huskies in close games.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

When I say "none of this is hard to figure out", I am pointing out that there are statistics for most of what I am saying. Good shot selection is not just an opinion.

I do think there is a role for "old school" approaches with intangibles like confidence, and skills are as or more important than strategy in basketball. That said, the team that takes the most high percentage shots will usually win, particularly if the teams are evenly matched. UConn is taking a lot of low percentage shots, and it is hurting the Huskies in close games.

We are both looking forward to seeing if it improves.
I look forward to more Boneyard posts that strengthen our common bond, emphasize what's good & working, and show continuous improvement where things are sub-optimal.

 

[freescooter]

I think there are a couple of things to consider. Hurley is being paid like a big time coach. So he doesn’t get lots of excuses. There are 3 types of coaches out there. Guys who can recruit, guys who know sixes and os but can’t recruit and those rare types who can recruit and coach the heck out of what they get. I think Hurley is a solid recruiter. It remains to be seen if he can coach. So far 2019-20 bears a pretty good resemblance to 2018-19 and that is sort of scary.

 

[Waquoit]

I just want the coach and his players to figure out how to make winning plays in these games that could go either way.

Keep CV on bench late. Done.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think Hurley's old school ways are hurting Vital. I think Vital is an excellent shooter off the catch, but Vital's long pull up 3's are essentially the first pass of the other team's fastbreak. I like Vital and Gilbert attacking the basket, but they need to be thinking pass instead of shot on those drives. By the time Vital or Gilbert get from 25 feet out to the basket, the help defense is going to be there and they are going to have a very tough finish at the hoop. They need to be dumping off to Carlton or Akok, or kicking out to a spot up shooter on those drives.

The coach's job is to maximize his players' strengths and minimize their weaknesses. That is all any coach can hope to do, but I do not think that is happening right now.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

That’s one perspective. He didn’t make it out of week one. Got pounded by Duke. I thought the Oregon game got away from him. Be that as it may, not suggesting he’s a bad coach. Suggesting he has some cycles to go through. Took Calhoun many years to reach the pinnacle.

You’re criticizing a guy because he couldn’t get URI to the Sweet 16? You realize that’s insane right?