Rothstein: St. John’s/UConn is college basketball’s burgeoning rivalry. | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Rothstein: St. John’s/UConn is college basketball’s burgeoning rivalry.

FfldCntyFan said:
261 posts, you're using that as evidence of something?

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FfldCntyFan talking to himself about the UConn Syracuse "rivalry"

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CTBballfan243 said:
I equate St.John’s to PC. Just little pesky mosquitoes that need to be swatted away occasionally.
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Big diff is that StJ has NYC. That is a very big difference. And now it has a landscape where big backers make a difference, and they have a big one. What StJ showed last year is that the city loves a winner, and it’s been a long time since they’ve had one, especially in basketball. You have Spike Lee showing up. The Jonnies had the city raptured last year. Val is smart by squeezing every ounce of the NYC edge it has.

PC is an afterthought program. Too small to make a mark. Truly a little brother and will always be one. They’d have to pull together a perfect storm to be competitive.

I go back and forth on whether the BE has a lifeline in all this. In the realignment and rev share world it wouldn’t seem so, but then you see articles come out suggesting they have an edge based on NIL because they don’t have to share with football. And with that article you see recruits migrating over, both portal and HS. Follow the money.
 
superjohn said:
There's two threads here at the top of the board about St. John's with 261 posts and another thread below them that turned into a St. John's thread. This will be the 7th straight season we haven't played Syracuse. Nobody is stopping you from talking about Boeheim eating his own boogers.
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Syracuse refusing to play all their old rivals like UConn, St. John’s as well had even further helped to catapult them to irrelevance. It’s not the only reason, but the point is, embracing rivalries for what they are is good for both programs most of the time.
 
Irrelevance is cumulative, as Georgetown fans have learned, but it's also hit Syracuse. One should look no further than the 100th Georgetown-Syracuse game last season at the Carrier Dome. ESPN had the rights and parked it on the ACC Network.
 
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Largest single gift ever to St Johns by Janetschek family -32.5M--25M for new BB practice facility and 7.5M for BB student-athletes. Hope to have operational within two years(2027). The dice are hot for Rick.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I know quite a bit about Bleeding Kansas and I'm old enough to remember Owens as head coach at Kansas and Stewart as head coach at Missouri.

At a time when (living in the northeast) you would normally have the opportunity to see one Big Eight game a year (always a weekend, after college football was done for the season). Kansas-Missouri was often the game we would get.
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Umami Zen said:
Largest single gift ever to St Johns by Janetschek family -32.5M--25M for new BB practice facility and 7.5M for BB student-athletes. Hope to have operational within two years(2027). The dice are hot for Rick.
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Every other major school has had this…. Forever.
 
TheChamps990411 said:
Anyone else not buying the so called "hostility" between the programs and its head coaches? Pitino is a salesman and a bit of percieved bad blood between him and Hurley he knows is good for business. Hurley knows this and is going to shrewdly play along because he knows this can be useful.
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Nobody believes any of this crap; well one person keeps attempting to claim there is a rivalry where no rivalry exists......
 
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RuffRuff said:
Webster definition
competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field.

This is a rivalry. Let’s get off our high horses and stop over indexing in the past. It’s lame.
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So if DePaul starts being good again for the first time since Terry Cummings left for the NBA we will be rivals we ith them?

As our objective in the field of men's D-1 basketball is to compete for the national championship, another are quite a few other programs who realistically have the same objective, we evidently have rivalries with half of the SEC, nearly half of the B1G, a third of the B-12 a quarter of the ACC and a couple BE schools. I guess we have about forty or so rivalries. The school should do a better job of advertising this, it may improve our perception nationally.

We don't have a rival. Super John is being childish by claiming I believe Syracuse is a rival. They were for a good stretch but that has been gone for a while. Nothing has replaced that (we still spend more time poking fun at that school and their fan base than the entirety of the BE combined) and it would take a whole lot more than whatever success Pitino can bring to St John's in the half dozen or so seasons he ends up running the show there.

They will disappear from our radar the second they return to where they were in 2021-2023. That doesn't happen in a rivalry.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
So if DePaul starts being good again for the first time since Terry Cummings left for the NBA we will be rivals we ith them?

As our objective in the field of men's D-1 basketball is to compete for the national championship, another are quite a few other programs who realistically have the same objective, we evidently have rivalries with half of the SEC, nearly half of the B1G, a third of the B-12 a quarter of the ACC and a couple BE schools. I guess we have about forty or so rivalries. The school should do a better job of advertising this, it may improve our perception nationally.

We don't have a rival. Super John is being childish by claiming I believe Syracuse is a rival. They were for a good stretch but that has been gone for a while. Nothing has replaced that (we still spend more time poking fun at that school and their fan base than the entirety of the BE combined) and it would take a whole lot more than whatever success Pitino can bring to St John's in the half dozen or so seasons he ends up running the show there.

They will disappear from our radar the second they return to where they were in 2021-2023. That doesn't happen in a rivalry.
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If DePaul hires a Hof coach, moved to within 2.5 hours, had an arena that we claimed as ours, had a massive backer to build talented teams, had 40 years of league history with us where they were once the dominant team, yeah they would.

It’s a rivalry. Rothstein - objective. UConn past over indexers, not.
 
RuffRuff said:
If DePaul hires a Hof coach, moved to within 2.5 hours, had an arena that we claimed as ours, had a massive backer to build talented teams, had 40 years of league history with us where they were once the dominant team, yeah they would.

It’s a rivalry. Rothstein - objective. UConn past over indexers, not.
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Past over indexers, what does that even mean? We're not UCLA or Indiana. We have national title winning players on the current roster.
 
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I think some folks need to look up “burgeoning.”

Also, what make the concept of a rivalry so enticing is MSG. If the Johnnies are good and we play them at the garden, there are about equal numbers of each team’s fans in a sold out arena. In a typical home game if the visitors score or go on a run, the place gets quiet. Not the case here, as half the place is always going wild no matter what team is scoring/going in a run.

Attended the 99 game in the garden when St John’s was a top ten team (Eric Barkley, Ron Artest (Meta World Peace), Bootsie Thornton) and we we’re either 1 or 2. Was as wild and electric as any game I’ve been to.
 
Inyatkin said:
Past over indexers, what does that even mean? We're not UCLA or Indiana. We have national title winning players on the current roster.
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Past meaning we need this longstanding historic winner to qualify as our rival. As if they aren’t good enough to meet our standards. Rivals aren’t one size fits all. In the current they 1000% a rival.

The juice when we play them the next couple years will absolutely be that of a rivalry.
 
Between Fairfield CTY, NYC, NJ and Long Island there are enormous numbers of Uconn and SJ alumni. As long as we both have very good teams this is a very big plus for both schools and the MSG/ Big East connection. SJ's has 15,000 students which is large by Big East standards so another good reason for the NYC exposure. Wondering if this is also going to help bring about more disciplined HS/AAU players and teams in the area as well as some of the other inner cities in the conference. With the spotlight on the toughness of SJ and Uconn programs if might help in this regard.
 
RuffRuff said:
Past meaning we need this longstanding historic winner to qualify as our rival. As if they aren’t good enough to meet our standards. Rivals aren’t one size fits all. In the current they 1000% a rival.

The juice when we play them the next couple years will absolutely be that of a rivalry.
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Was Louisville our rival back in the good old days?
 
John said:
Was Louisville our rival back in the good old days?
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Not really, as we had other teams considered rivals in that time frame. They’re also not local or a historic BE team. It’s hard to call multiple teams your rival, and we had Cuse/Pitt in that period.

I would definitely have called Pitt a rival in that 5-6 year stretch.
 
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CL82 said:
Lol, Rothstein is a puffer. He blows a lot of smoke about a lot of things.
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Not sure there is a more knowledgeable college hoops guy out there. You call it puff I call it passionate, borderline nuts.
 
RuffRuff said:
Not sure there is a more knowledgeable college hoops guy out there. You call it puff I call it passionate, borderline nuts.
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Give a listen to his team by team reports as the season starts up next. He puffs every team up. That's just his brand. So it's no surprise. He uses hyperbole about what should be some good games next year.
 
CL82 said:
Give a listen to his team by team reports as the season starts up next. He puffs every team up. That's just his brand. So it's no surprise. He uses hyperbole about what should be some good games next year.
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I recall him being pretty critical of us after seeing a summer practice last year. I’m not sure I call it hyperbole as much as he focuses on the good stuff.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
So if DePaul starts being good again for the first time since Terry Cummings left for the NBA we will be rivals we ith them?

As our objective in the field of men's D-1 basketball is to compete for the national championship, another are quite a few other programs who realistically have the same objective, we evidently have rivalries with half of the SEC, nearly half of the B1G, a third of the B-12 a quarter of the ACC and a couple BE schools. I guess we have about forty or so rivalries. The school should do a better job of advertising this, it may improve our perception nationally.

We don't have a rival. Super John is being childish by claiming I believe Syracuse is a rival. They were for a good stretch but that has been gone for a while. Nothing has replaced that (we still spend more time poking fun at that school and their fan base than the entirety of the BE combined) and it would take a whole lot more than whatever success Pitino can bring to St John's in the half dozen or so seasons he ends up running the show there.

They will disappear from our radar the second they return to where they were in 2021-2023. That doesn't happen in a rivalry.
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You’re making assumptions here. Pitino probably has 4-5 years with Repole behind him and NYC/MSG, and he’ll build that brand up to the point where they should have great momentum and be able to attract a solid coach. As we saw with Nova, you’re only as good as your coach. Where would we be without Hurley? Sure they may drop back down, but also a decent chance they maintain form with the right coach. Of all the conference teams, they easily have the best chance of maintaining rivalry status. Shaka is on a descending pattern with his ignorance to the portal, McDermott already has his successor flagged, both are also non historic mid west BE teams. I’m not a buyer of Willard. I’d embrace it, makes sports so much better and brings eyes to the BE.
 
RuffRuff said:
You’re making assumptions here. Pitino probably has 4-5 years with Repole behind him and NYC/MSG, and he’ll build that brand up to the point where they should have great momentum and be able to attract a solid coach. As we saw with Nova, you’re only as good as your coach. Where would we be without Hurley? Sure they may drop back down, but also a decent chance they maintain form with the right coach. Of all the conference teams, they easily have the best chance of maintaining rivalry status. Shaka is on a descending pattern with his ignorance to the portal, McDermott already has his successor flagged, both are also non historic mid west BE teams. I’m not a buyer of Willard. I’d embrace it, makes sports so much better and brings eyes to the BE.
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I don't think Creighton is going anywhere, McDermott created a really good program, they have the resources, and a rabid fanbase. Willard will make Nova good again. Not sure they'll be championship level under him but the guy can recruit and Nova has all the resources and the fanbase. Shaka better snap out of it, he's going against the tide and it's not going to work out for him unless he changes.
 
mussels said:
I think some folks need to look up “burgeoning.”

Also, what make the concept of a rivalry so enticing is MSG. If the Johnnies are good and we play them at the garden, there are about equal numbers of each team’s fans in a sold out arena. In a typical home game if the visitors score or go on a run, the place gets quiet. Not the case here, as half the place is always going wild no matter what team is scoring/going in a run.

Attended the 99 game in the garden when St John’s was a top ten team (Eric Barkley, Ron Artest (Meta World Peace), Bootsie Thornton) and we we’re either 1 or 2. Was as wild and electric as any game I’ve been to.
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There hasn't been a problem getting our road matchups against St John's at the Garden. I'll wager heavily that it's been far more than thirty years since we played a game at Carnesecca. We don't need anything from them.

RuffRuff said:
You’re making assumptions here. Pitino probably has 4-5 years with Repole behind him and NYC/MSG, and he’ll build that brand up to the point where they should have great momentum and be able to attract a solid coach. As we saw with Nova, you’re only as good as your coach. Where would we be without Hurley? Sure they may drop back down, but also a decent chance they maintain form with the right coach. Of all the conference teams, they easily have the best chance of maintaining rivalry status. Shaka is on a descending pattern with his ignorance to the portal, McDermott already has his successor flagged, both are also non historic mid west BE teams. I’m not a buyer of Willard. I’d embrace it, makes sports so much better and brings eyes to the BE.
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They had momentum when Louie retired. Look around the landscape in our conference and every other conference. Finding a quality replacement is not easy. I can list a ton of schools (starting with St John's) that failed miserably, more than once.

It is a far safer assumption to believe that whoever follows Pitino will drop the performance level slightly to considerably than to believe that once Rick hangs it up they'll continue at the same level.

Case in point 1 is Louisville once he was gone. You can look further in his past as a college coach and find a lot of the same.
 
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