Rothstein: St. John’s/UConn is college basketball’s burgeoning rivalry.

[PAHusky]

Sometimes not even then.

Serious question:

Does Penn State football have a true rival?

They've been a very formidable program for about six decades, have been competing for national titles for five and have a few national championship trophies in their display case.

Nobody would consider them a flash in the pan, a poser or any other derogatory label one would give a program that thinks it's something that it isn't. Until about forty years ago Pitt was absolutely a rival and was always their last game of the season. One strange thing about that however was that there was only about a ten year span (mid 1970's to mid 1980's) when both were very good at the same time. From WWI through the early 1960's Pitt was the far superior program but basically once Paterno took over, PSU was very good while Pitt had a terrible decade, followed by a decade where they were as good as any school, followed by a lot of mediocrity.

Penn State football is a storied program that is among the best yet really doesn't have a rival. The same can be said about our basketball program.

100% correct take on this

 

[PAHusky]

I love this space. I love reading about UConn and I love reading from people that love UConn as much as I do. But some of you are flat out . St. John's was relevant last year. They are absolutely going to be a top 5 program NATIONALLY, again this coming year, and they are in the same conference as us. And they beat our a-- every time they played us last year. And the games the year before were ultra competitive. If that is not the very definition of a rivalry I do not know what is.
We complained forever about how the weak nature of the BE was costing us. Well, the BE is a little less weak now, isn't it???

Histrionics aside just no. A two year span of getting beaten and them having a highly ranked team does not a rivalry make. Longevity is a huge component, as is a bunch of other not easily definable aspects, but losing a few times to a better team with a coach who’s not around for a long time is not it.

Great for us and the Big East that St John’s is good. No, that does not make this a rivalry.

 

[Palatine]

All publicity is good publicity. So this is a great piece of pub. Except for that it is meaningless. UConn/SJU has never been a rivalry. It would take a few years to build to that level and by that time Pitino will be gone.

 

[freescooter]

There really would be no better rival than UMass. Neighboring states, short drive, a lot in common, plenty of cause for bad blood. But they'd have to take SPORTS seriously for that to happen.

Fixed it for you

 

[boog204]

Who was that coach they had maybe 5-10 years ago who came from one of those fake high school programs, he ended up landing a top-50 recruit bc he was dating the kids mother? lol.

Tre Mitchell? I think the kid's coach became engaged with the mom and then the coach got hired as an assistant at UMass. Mitchell was a pretty good player, too, that I think we recruited pretty hard for a bit.

 

[freescooter]

Red Sox-Yankees is a rivalry. Harvard-Yale rivalry. BC-BU hockey rivalry. Michigan-Ohio State rivalry. UConn-St John’s is flavor of the month. It isn’t historic. We mostly don’t care about them unless we are playing against them. Some UConn fans event root for them in non-conference games because they are in the NBE. No Red Sox fan rooted for the Yankees in the World Series despite both being in the ALEast. I can tell you that BC hockey fans became Western Michigan fans during the NCAA hockey tournament. And that was despite the fact that a BU victory would have been a feather in Hockey East’s cap. If the Yanks never win another game it will be too many for most Sox fans. If BU goes 0 for the next 10 years BC won’t be happy. No Michigan Man want Ohio State to win anything. Ever. Superjohn and his ilk want St John’s to lose 2 games per year. That’s an opponent, not a rival

 

[freescooter]

Histrionics aside just no. A two year span of getting beaten and them having a highly ranked team does not a rivalry make. Longevity is a huge component, as is a bunch of other not easily definable aspects, but losing a few times to a better team with a coach who’s not around for a long time is not it.

Great for us and the Big East that St John’s is good. No, that does not make this a rivalry.

And your last sentence sums up why this is not a rivalry. North Carolina would never say “Good for the ACC that Duke is good.” And Duke is always good. St John’s has been to the NCAA tournament as many times since 1999 as we have won titles. I think the actually won a game over that span.

 

[Luna]

MSG is going to be on fire when we play them there …especially if we are both ranked high … this is great for the big east

 

[jibsey]

And your last sentence sums up why this is not a rivalry. North Carolina would never say “Good for the ACC that Duke is good.” And Duke is always good. St John’s has been to the NCAA tournament as many times since 1999 as we have won titles. I think the actually won a game over that span.

Yes. And we want to beat them this season if only to shut up their fans who mouth off and come out of their ratholes every generation or so when they field a competitive team.

 

[Iluvsuebird]

Histrionics aside just no. A two year span of getting beaten and them having a highly ranked team does not a rivalry make. Longevity is a huge component, as is a bunch of other not easily definable aspects, but losing a few times to a better team with a coach who’s not around for a long time is not it.

Great for us and the Big East that St John’s is good. No, that does not make this a rivalry.

I am not comparing the "relationship" that exists between us and St. Johns with any other relationship. But you are telling me that a top 5 team for this coming year, a team that we will face at least twice, is not a rival? This may be grammar thing. Maybe the word "rival" means something different to both of us.

 

[John]

I am not comparing the "relationship" that exists between us and St. Johns with any other relationship. But you are telling me that a top 5 team for this coming year, a team that we will face at least twice, is not a rival? This may be grammar thing. Maybe the word "rival" means something different to both of us.

what you're describing are compelling matchups, not a rivalry.

 

[metsfan2323]

what you're describing are compelling matchups, not a rivalry.

LOL, if Rivalry doesn't at least in part mean "compelling matchup" then what does it mean? Usually a long history is involved and league and geography are often part of it but not always.

St john's sure seems to check a lot of boxes.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

LOL, if Rivalry doesn't at least in part mean "compelling matchup" then what does it mean? Usually a long history is involved and league and geography are often part of it but not always.

St john's sure seems to check a lot of boxes.

That's like equating dating someone briefly to being married for a while.

 

[metsfan2323]

That's like equating dating someone briefly to being married for a while.

We have been in a league with St John's for how long? And we like to call their home court our second home. Seems like a marriage, I mean rivalry.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

We have been in a league with St John's for how long? We pretty much have been married. And we like to call their home court our second home. Seems like a marriage, I mean rivalry.

We have never called Carnasecca our second home.

 

[metsfan2323]

We have never called Carnasecca our second home.

Vitriol and sarcastic remarks are also part of a good fan rivalry.

 

[SubbaBub]

We have never called Carnasecca our second home.

St John's could never afford to skip MSG to force us into that gym. They'd rather take their beating in front of 15,000 UConn fans.

This isn't about relevance. They were relevant last season. Every Top 10 team is. That's one year in a row. We expect them to be relevant next year based on their coach and their NIL budget, but UNC expected to be relevant last year. It remains to be seen.

Relevance is not equal to a rivalry. They aren't even the only team competing with us for a BE championship. The games will have juice and we welcome the casual media hyping the matchup, but it's not a rivalry.

 

[John]

LOL, if Rivalry doesn't at least in part mean "compelling matchup" then what does it mean? Usually a long history is involved and league and geography are often part of it but not always.

St john's sure seems to check a lot of boxes.

a rivalry means extended history in every single case. Right now it's a compelling matchup.

 

[John]

We have been in a league with St John's for how long? And we like to call their home court our second home. Seems like a marriage, I mean rivalry.

we've been in the same proximity with Seton Hall, Providence and an ever-flailing Georgetown, . Please don't tell me you think they're a rival too.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Vitriol and sarcastic remarks are also part of a good fan rivalry.

There was neither sarcasm nor vitriol in my post. I was merely stating a fact.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sometimes not even then.

Serious question:

Does Penn State football have a true rival?

They've been a very formidable program for about six decades, have been competing for national titles for five and have a few national championship trophies in their display case.

Nobody would consider them a flash in the pan, a poser or any other derogatory label one would give a program that thinks it's something that it isn't. Until about forty years ago Pitt was absolutely a rival and was always their last game of the season. One strange thing about that however was that there was only about a ten year span (mid 1970's to mid 1980's) when both were very good at the same time. From WWI through the early 1960's Pitt was the far superior program but basically once Paterno took over, PSU was very good while Pitt had a terrible decade, followed by a decade where they were as good as any school, followed by a lot of mediocrity.

Penn State football is a storied program that is among the best yet really doesn't have a rival. The same can be said about our basketball program.

They've embraced it as their motto has been, "Unrivaled" for the last several years.

Like PSU FB, UConn BB has drifted in and out of conferences lacking consistent memberships. PSU after many years as an independent was never going to be the main rival to the other top programs or the various big brother little brother rivalries.

UConn missed the first day of school in the OBE as a doormat when Gt and Cuse, StJ, and even Seton Hall were having their day. By the time UConn became UConn those team declined and others were added before CR tore it all apart.

Rivals, no. UConn's rivals are the guys in suits at the power conferences and the big media companies, and the NCAA. On the court it's whoever is good when we are good. That's how you get Pitt, Lville, Cincy added to various lists.

 

[Lafayette]

Rivalry is one season and a prediction for the next? One program has won 6 nattys and in been relevant for 30 years while another has not progressed to a final four in roughly the same time. This is thin at best.

 

[Gurleyman]

They are good right now and in our way, yes. But calling them our rival gives it permanence and elevates them to our level, and St. John’s only wishes they could get close enough to smell our exhaust fumes from leaving them in the dust.

Let them pass Loyola of Chicago first on the list of major metropolitan Catholic institutions before they are considered a rival of 6-time champions.

 

[Waquoit]

After splitting our first two Big East match-ups, the Johnnies won 17 games in a row. UConn has pretty much pounded them ever since. The two teams have been rarely very good at the same time. The closest SJU came was in 1999 and that ended in tears. It's tough to get a rivalry going under those conditions.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

I don't disagree with you factually. I do think what you describe is more our principal competitor than our rival. A true rival doesn't have to be good or even competitivefor you to actually hate them.

exactly.

Marquette being a rival is foolish. A rival isn't necessarily the one that gives you the most competition. A rival is more about the one that drives fans emotions and excitement for a game. Geography/Proximity also plays a major role. When all of these things are true together it becomes even a bigger rivalry.

A better metric for rivalry IMO would be ticket prices/demand and local market TV ratings.

Two teams in the Big East in my opinion generate widespread emotions/hatred right now for the UConn fanbase - Providence and St. John's. You can even feel it on this board.

Creighton? Yawn
Marquette? Yawn

Villanova? Too much mutual respect among both fanbases for this to feel like true rivalry.


The issue that I have with the Boneyard fanbase is the arrogance and this idea that to be a current rival you have to have the same level of historical success. If that were the case then the Red Sox have no business being Yankee rivals (FYI - I'm not a Yankee fan)