Rothstein: St. John’s/UConn is college basketball’s burgeoning rivalry.

[John]

I am not comparing the "relationship" that exists between us and St. Johns with any other relationship. But you are telling me that a top 5 team for this coming year, a team that we will face at least twice, is not a rival? This may be grammar thing. Maybe the word "rival" means something different to both of us.

what you're describing are compelling matchups, not a rivalry.

 

[metsfan2323]

what you're describing are compelling matchups, not a rivalry.

LOL, if Rivalry doesn't at least in part mean "compelling matchup" then what does it mean? Usually a long history is involved and league and geography are often part of it but not always.

St john's sure seems to check a lot of boxes.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

LOL, if Rivalry doesn't at least in part mean "compelling matchup" then what does it mean? Usually a long history is involved and league and geography are often part of it but not always.

St john's sure seems to check a lot of boxes.

That's like equating dating someone briefly to being married for a while.

 

[metsfan2323]

That's like equating dating someone briefly to being married for a while.

We have been in a league with St John's for how long? And we like to call their home court our second home. Seems like a marriage, I mean rivalry.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

We have been in a league with St John's for how long? We pretty much have been married. And we like to call their home court our second home. Seems like a marriage, I mean rivalry.

We have never called Carnasecca our second home.

 

[metsfan2323]

We have never called Carnasecca our second home.

Vitriol and sarcastic remarks are also part of a good fan rivalry.

 

[SubbaBub]

We have never called Carnasecca our second home.

St John's could never afford to skip MSG to force us into that gym. They'd rather take their beating in front of 15,000 UConn fans.

This isn't about relevance. They were relevant last season. Every Top 10 team is. That's one year in a row. We expect them to be relevant next year based on their coach and their NIL budget, but UNC expected to be relevant last year. It remains to be seen.

Relevance is not equal to a rivalry. They aren't even the only team competing with us for a BE championship. The games will have juice and we welcome the casual media hyping the matchup, but it's not a rivalry.

 

[John]

LOL, if Rivalry doesn't at least in part mean "compelling matchup" then what does it mean? Usually a long history is involved and league and geography are often part of it but not always.

St john's sure seems to check a lot of boxes.

a rivalry means extended history in every single case. Right now it's a compelling matchup.

 

[John]

We have been in a league with St John's for how long? And we like to call their home court our second home. Seems like a marriage, I mean rivalry.

we've been in the same proximity with Seton Hall, Providence and an ever-flailing Georgetown, . Please don't tell me you think they're a rival too.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Vitriol and sarcastic remarks are also part of a good fan rivalry.

There was neither sarcasm nor vitriol in my post. I was merely stating a fact.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sometimes not even then.

Serious question:

Does Penn State football have a true rival?

They've been a very formidable program for about six decades, have been competing for national titles for five and have a few national championship trophies in their display case.

Nobody would consider them a flash in the pan, a poser or any other derogatory label one would give a program that thinks it's something that it isn't. Until about forty years ago Pitt was absolutely a rival and was always their last game of the season. One strange thing about that however was that there was only about a ten year span (mid 1970's to mid 1980's) when both were very good at the same time. From WWI through the early 1960's Pitt was the far superior program but basically once Paterno took over, PSU was very good while Pitt had a terrible decade, followed by a decade where they were as good as any school, followed by a lot of mediocrity.

Penn State football is a storied program that is among the best yet really doesn't have a rival. The same can be said about our basketball program.

They've embraced it as their motto has been, "Unrivaled" for the last several years.

Like PSU FB, UConn BB has drifted in and out of conferences lacking consistent memberships. PSU after many years as an independent was never going to be the main rival to the other top programs or the various big brother little brother rivalries.

UConn missed the first day of school in the OBE as a doormat when Gt and Cuse, StJ, and even Seton Hall were having their day. By the time UConn became UConn those team declined and others were added before CR tore it all apart.

Rivals, no. UConn's rivals are the guys in suits at the power conferences and the big media companies, and the NCAA. On the court it's whoever is good when we are good. That's how you get Pitt, Lville, Cincy added to various lists.

 

[Lafayette]

Rivalry is one season and a prediction for the next? One program has won 6 nattys and in been relevant for 30 years while another has not progressed to a final four in roughly the same time. This is thin at best.

 

[Gurleyman]

They are good right now and in our way, yes. But calling them our rival gives it permanence and elevates them to our level, and St. John’s only wishes they could get close enough to smell our exhaust fumes from leaving them in the dust.

Let them pass Loyola of Chicago first on the list of major metropolitan Catholic institutions before they are considered a rival of 6-time champions.

 

[Waquoit]

After splitting our first two Big East match-ups, the Johnnies won 17 games in a row. UConn has pretty much pounded them ever since. The two teams have been rarely very good at the same time. The closest SJU came was in 1999 and that ended in tears. It's tough to get a rivalry going under those conditions.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

I don't disagree with you factually. I do think what you describe is more our principal competitor than our rival. A true rival doesn't have to be good or even competitivefor you to actually hate them.

exactly.

Marquette being a rival is foolish. A rival isn't necessarily the one that gives you the most competition. A rival is more about the one that drives fans emotions and excitement for a game. Geography/Proximity also plays a major role. When all of these things are true together it becomes even a bigger rivalry.

A better metric for rivalry IMO would be ticket prices/demand and local market TV ratings.

Two teams in the Big East in my opinion generate widespread emotions/hatred right now for the UConn fanbase - Providence and St. John's. You can even feel it on this board.

Creighton? Yawn
Marquette? Yawn

Villanova? Too much mutual respect among both fanbases for this to feel like true rivalry.


The issue that I have with the Boneyard fanbase is the arrogance and this idea that to be a current rival you have to have the same level of historical success. If that were the case then the Red Sox have no business being Yankee rivals (FYI - I'm not a Yankee fan)

 

[ucp990411]

After splitting our first two Big East match-ups, the Johnnies won 17 games in a row. UConn has pretty much pounded them ever since. The two teams have been rarely very good at the same time. The closest SJU came was in 1999 and that ended in tears. It's tough to get a rivalry going under those conditions.

The 2 teams have rarely been good at the time since 1999. In other words they have rarely been good since 1999. Accurate statement

 

[ucp990411]

If Providence could ever be decent they would be our rival. And there is a big difference between rival and arch rival.

 

[mauconnfan]

You have to do more than just beat us on occasion to be a rival. Hell we are providences Super Bowl and they beat us once in a while. Maybe win something more than a 2-15 game in the dance then talk to me about a rivalry!

 

[superjohn]

After splitting our first two Big East match-ups, the Johnnies won 17 games in a row. UConn has pretty much pounded them ever since. The two teams have been rarely very good at the same time. The closest SJU came was in 1999 and that ended in tears. It's tough to get a rivalry going under those conditions.

That's why we got it going now. They're the two best teams in the Big East and they're going to be two of the 5 best teams in the country next season. The coaches can't stand each other, the fans can't stand each other, they both have realistic goals of winning the Big East regular season, Big East tournament, and National Championship. They pounded us last year and ran away with the Big East regular season and Big East Tourny. Their fans are puffing their chests. UConn will want revenge.

 

[DRBackup]

There really would be no better rival than UMass. Neighboring states, short drive, a lot in common, plenty of cause for bad blood. But they'd have to take basketball seriously for that to happen.

That's the basis for most rivalries. VA Tech and UVA are like that, just like the Big 10 football rivalries.

 

[lateralous]

If both teams can navigate the OOC schedule it feels like the hype for the two conference games between them could be at a level that the conference frankly hasn’t seen in decades.

A lot of it really is about the coaches anymore. I hate the SEC but I watched Arkansas at Kentucky this year for the Calipari vs UK storylines. Hurley vs Patino w/ both teams ranked in the top 5 would be that x10

 

[RuffRuff]

If both teams can navigate the OOC schedule it feels like the hype for the two conference games between them could be at a level that the conference frankly hasn’t seen in decades.

A lot of it really is about the coaches anymore. I hate the SEC but I watched Arkansas at Kentucky this year for the Calipari vs UK storylines. Hurley vs Patino w/ both teams ranked in the top 5 would be that x10

Anyone that wants to poopoo the gravity of this one is just an insecure UConn tribester.

Good rivals are built on the other side having something they don’t. StJ has NYC, Pitino and a billionaire funding them. UConn has Hurley and rings.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

That's why we got it going now. They're the two best teams in the Big East and they're going to be two of the 5 best teams in the country next season. The coaches can't stand each other, the fans can't stand each other, they both have realistic goals of winning the Big East regular season, Big East tournament, and National Championship. They pounded us last year and ran away with the Big East regular season and Big East Tourny. Their fans are puffing their chests. UConn will want revenge.

Are Georgia and Texas rivals in football? Entering the CFP Georgia was #2 and Texas was #5. Pretty much the criteria that you are using to label our relationship with St John's a rivalry.

A quick question: over the past six months approximately how many posts have we had had on this board making fun of Syracuse and their current situation? My guess would be well in the thousands (I saw two this afternoon alone). St John's has had quite a bit to poke fun at over the past quarter century. How often have we poked fun at them or their situation over that time frame?

I could be wrong but the way I see it, if an opponent doesn't move the needle at all unless they are competitive they aren't a rival.

 

[NJHusky]

And your last sentence sums up why this is not a rivalry. North Carolina would never say “Good for the ACC that Duke is good.” And Duke is always good. St John’s has been to the NCAA tournament as many times since 1999 as we have won titles. I think the actually won a game over that span.

Not just appearances, We have more titles than they have tourney games won since 1999!

 

[Kolumbo]

SJU was a big rival back in the late '90's, 1998-1999 specifically with Thornton, Barkley, Postell, Grant, and MWP. I hated that team more than any other Big East team, except perhaps some cuse squads. Then they added Omar Cook a couple years later. It was so intense I believe Jarvis had the MSG games moved to weekdays to try to quell our 6th Borough Advantage.

1998-99 UConn finished 1st, Miami 2nd, SJU 3rd, cuse and nova 4th. UConn of course went on to glory that year.

I don't think SJUs run will be particularly long. How long is Pitino going to coach?

 

[RuffRuff]

SJU was a big rival back in the late '90's, 1998-1999 specifically with Thornton, Barkley, Postell, Grant, and MWP. I hated that team more than any other Big East team, except perhaps some cuse squads. Then they added Omar Cook a couple years later. It was so intense I believe Jarvis had the MSG games moved to weekdays to try to quell our 6th Borough Advantage.

1998-99 UConn finished 1st, Miami 2nd, SJU 3rd, cuse and nova 4th. UConn of course went on to glory that year.

I don't think SJUs run will be particularly long. How long is Pitino going to coach?

You do wonder who they can attract once Pitino is gone. If he can build that brand back up, and have that level of financial backing as NYCs team, if they can sustain after he is gone. With how things are changing, it may be enough to draw someone good once he retires in 2-4 years.

I recall some talk of little Pitino succeeding him. StJ would likely benefit by staying on brand with a NY personality. A guy like Anderson from Alabama was such a total non fit on too many levels.

 

[superjohn]

Are Georgia and Texas rivals in football? Entering the CFP Georgia was #2 and Texas was #5. Pretty much the criteria that you are using to label our relationship with St John's a rivalry.

A quick question: over the past six months approximately how many posts have we had had on this board making fun of Syracuse and their current situation? My guess would be well in the thousands (I saw two this afternoon alone). St John's has had quite a bit to poke fun at over the past quarter century. How often have we poked fun at them or their situation over that time frame?

I could be wrong but the way I see it, if an opponent doesn't move the needle at all unless they are competitive they aren't a rival.

There's two threads here at the top of the board about St. John's with 261 posts and another thread below them that turned into a St. John's thread. This will be the 7th straight season we haven't played Syracuse. Nobody is stopping you from talking about Boeheim eating his own boogers.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Rothstein resides in Manhattan so I'm not surprised he's pushing this. This has a 90s UConn/UMass feel to it though so it will be interesting.

What happens when UConn leaves the Big East, and they will leave the Big East sooner than later. Rothstein wrote it but the Big East is pushing this, the league as a whole is still on life support, if you ask me.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

There's two threads here at the top of the board about St. John's with 261 posts and another thread below them that turned into a St. John's thread. This will be the 7th straight season we haven't played Syracuse. Nobody is stopping you from talking about Boeheim eating his own boogers.

261 posts, you're using that as evidence of something?

 

[jibsey]

What happens when UConn leaves the Big East, and they will leave the Big East sooner than later. Rothstein wrote it but the Big East is pushing this, the league as a whole is still on life support, if you ask me.

The BE was Uconn‘s pathway back from purgatory and while I’m sure Hurley and our AD like the BE Tourney with its cachet, MSG etc, we need to be in a stronger league. Our football needs a league. Goodbye St. John’s.