Reggie Miller is better than Steph Curry

[BleedHuskyBlu]

And Steve Kerr would be James Harden if he played in this era.

The hate that this era of players get from Old folks is too disrespectful. Steph is 10X better and even Reggie Miller or Ray Allen and they probably would admit that.

 

[Deepster]

And Steve Kerr would be James Harden if he played in this era.

The hate that this era of players get from Old folks is too disrespectful. Steph is 10X better and even Reggie Miller or Ray Allen and they probably would admit that.

Two things.....

1) The difference in comparing the players from different eras is....older people have actually seen the careers of both in real time. I wonder how many posters taking Curry's side actually even saw Reggie live once. I used to stay up late in college watching him with Pooh Richardson at PG.

2) I have other opinions taking the other side. I felt like Karl Malone looked stiff and immobile and wondered how the hell he was ever "that good". Dr J was my idol growing up, but I don't know that I'd put him in the top 25 players of all time anymore? I'd have to really think about it.

 

[mauconnfan]

And Steve Kerr would be James Harden if he played in this era.

The hate that this era of players get from Old folks is too disrespectful. Steph is 10X better and even Reggie Miller or Ray Allen and they probably would admit that.

Steph would've been Steph 20-30 years ago and Reggie could be the same now. Stephs a better player overall no matter how old you are but it's a tough comparison due to different positions. But to blame age on it then spew "10X better" tells us the 12 year olds are TOO respectful for todays players.

 

[Excalibur]

I wonder how many posters taking Curry's side actually even saw Reggie live once.

Being 43, I saw him plenty. There's no reasonable argument that Miller is better.

 

[Dean Wormer]

Two things.....

1) The difference in comparing the players from different eras is....older people have actually seen the careers of both in real time. I wonder how many posters taking Curry's side actually even saw Reggie live once. I used to stay up late in college watching him with Pooh Richardson at PG.

2) I have other opinions taking the other side. I felt like Karl Malone looked stiff and immobile and wondered how the hell he was ever "that good". Dr J was my idol growing up, but I don't know that I'd put him in the top 25 players of all time anymore? I'd have to really think about it.

One player who’s never gotten the credit he’s deserved has always been Tim Duncan. He’s the only guy I’d put ahead of the Mailman at the power forward position all-time.
And I also remember Reggie at UCLA, back when he was known as nothing more than Cheryl Miller’s little brother. No knock on him but he’s never been as good as Steph Curry. Just never.

 

[Chin Diesel]

One player who’s never gotten the credit he’s deserved has always been Tim Duncan. He’s the only guy I’d put ahead of the Mailman at the power forward position all-time.
And I also remember Reggie at UCLA, back when he was known as nothing more than Cheryl Miller’s little brother. No knock on him but he’s never been as good as Steph Curry. Just never.

I think Timmy is slotted correctly in the bottom half of top ten all-time and as the #1 PF on the list.
Once you get inside the top 7 or 8 you are talking transcendent talent that changed the way the game was thought possible.
Love me some Big Fundamental but he didn't revolutionize anything; he perfected the back to the basket 4/5.

 

[Dean Wormer]

I think Timmy is slotted correctly in the bottom half of top ten all-time and as the #1 PF on the list.
Once you get inside the top 7 or 8 you are talking transcendent talent that changed the way the game was thought possible.
Love me some Big Fundamental but he didn't revolutionize anything; he perfected the back to the basket 4/5.

Kobe once described studying Duncan’s game when the Lakers were looking for ways to defend him. He said Duncan was the guy who would do everything “right”. If the play called for a bounce pass to the corner, or a rebound outlet, or a block out on a missed shot, Tim-aaay would always make the correct play. So as a defender you’d have to anticipate more then with any other player and think “where is the next pass gonna go to make this the best play”? He said very few players could think like that, all game, every game, and that’s what made him different.
He wasn’t called “The Big Fundamental” for nothing! Lol

 

[Lefty2one]

The difference in comparing the players from different eras is....older people have actually seen the careers of both in real time. I wonder how many posters taking Curry's side actually even saw Reggie live once.

This thread is littered with older posters, including myself, who have been supporting MJ and a slew of 90s guys (and the era in general) in the other two busy threads in here over the last two weeks. Most of us have liked/agreed on many posts you've made in those threads. All of us saw Reggie play. None of us are agreeing with you on this topic and that should tell you something.

I've been a Knicks fan for three decades. I saw all of Reggie's big moments live. Reggie was a gnat. An annoying kid brother who punched above his weight class. He was a good player who could get ridiculous hot at times. He was probably the streakiest player of the 90s but he was clearly a tier below the best players of his day.

As I've said many times over the past few weeks, Reggie was one of those few guys who had zero expectations. It was fun when he exceeded them and challenged the best teams of that era but no one batted an eye or gave him any flack when he came up short because everyone knew he wasn't that good. This was not a case of a superstar carrying a subpar supporting cast.

 

[UConn990411]

I’m not sure there’s a single thing Reggie was better at than Curry. Steph has him beat in every statistical category across the board including:

• Better shooting percentages across the boa
• Better regular season numbers
• Better playoff numbers
• Better from an advanced stats perspective
• Better per 36
• More individual accolades and NBA all-team selections
• More team success

Reggie was only really great at shooting and scoring, and Curry is better in both aspects. Part of that is volume - overall shots and 3-pointers are higher these days compared to Reggie’s era - but the fact that Curry’s percentages are better despite higher volume makes it clear who the better shooter is/was.

You might be able to make an argument for Reggie over Ray (though I certainly wouldn’t), but Curry blew past him as a player years ago.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Now I'm actually curious @Deepster , is Reggie in your top 10? 15? Where is Curry on your all time players list?

 

[Lefty2one]

I’m not sure there’s a single thing Reggie was better at than Curry.

Some analytics love Reggie but all of those stats have to be taken in context.

Reggie is an OWS darling. In 1993-94 he finished 4th. This was Hakeem Olajuwon's MVP season. Hakeem is generally considered the second-best player of the 90s after MJ. The Dream finished 10th in OWS. You know who finished one spot ahead of him? AC Green.

ORtg is another one. Reggie led the league with an ORtg of 122.8 in 1993-94. Hakeem didn't even finish in the Top 20 but do you know who did? Dennis Rodman, who averaged 4.7 ppg. Steve Kerr finished 4th that year.

None of these stats can be used as a singular thing to point to who is/was a better player. You can't say "Player X is better than Player Y because of this one advanced stat" but man do a lot of younger people try these days.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Two things.....

1) The difference in comparing the players from different eras is....older people have actually seen the careers of both in real time. I wonder how many posters taking Curry's side actually even saw Reggie live once. I used to stay up late in college watching him with Pooh Richardson at PG.

Many of us never watched Ted Williams play. Does that mean we have no recourse to judge his greatness against current players?

This is the absolute saddest argument ever. We record wins/losses and compile stats for a reason.

 

[UConn990411]

Some analytics love Reggie but all of those stats have to be taken in context.

Reggie is an OWS darling. In 1993-94 he finished 4th. This was Hakeem Olajuwon's MVP season. Hakeem is generally considered the second-best player of the 90s after MJ. The Dream finished 10th in OWS. You know who finished one spot ahead of him? AC Green.

ORtg is another one. Reggie led the league with an ORtg of 122.8 in 1993-94. Hakeem didn't even finish in the Top 20 but do you know who did? Dennis Rodman, who averaged 4.7 ppg. Steve Kerr finished 4th that year.

None of these stats can be used as a singular thing to point to who is/was a better player. You can't say "Player X is better than Player Y because of this one advanced stat" but man do a lot of younger people try these days.

Yup, stats always need context around them. I know some of the advanced stats like PER are designed to give us a snapshot of how good a player was, but even advanced stats are more effective when they’re accompanied by the proper context.

The problem for Reggie is that adding context to his numbers makes him look worse, not better. He was a pretty one-dimensional player, and Curry has him beat in that one dimension.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

You say it's a ridiculous argument....then your counterpoint is who you'd take in a pickup game?

It's not a counterpoint, so much as an additional ridiculous argument.

 

[UofCT]

A) If they both played during Miller's prime, I think Miller would have been the better player. If you look at games played, Miller played 79+ games in 13 different seasons. He was more durable, tougher physically and for the game on the floor at that time? No different. Curry's body is already showing signs of breaking down somewhat.

B) If they both played in Curry's prime, I think Miller would be equal to him in every regard. Miller was a great catch and shooter, came off screens and would have NO problem assimilating into today's drive and kick 3 game.

No doubt history will likely crown Curry as the best 3 pt shooter ever and that's a hard argument to discredit. But the timing of Miller's career and his overall game makes it an interesting debate.

I agree 1000%

 

[UofCT]

Also, even just statistically, Steph is a better 3PT shooter on much greater volume while taking far more difficult shots than Reggie did.

Read into the hand check rule.

 

[EBonz30]

Reggie Miller is one of my favorite players of all-time & I don’t like Curry.

With that said, this is silly Curry is by far the better player, not even close.

Now if you want to argue that the ESPN Top 74 players post from last week in where they put Curry at number 13 all-time was a bit of a stretch- I am with you on that one.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I agree 1000%

Why? What empirical evidence exists that could possibly support his point (B), which is that if Reggie Miller played in today's era he'd miraculously become a completely different player than he was?

 

[Deepster]

Why? What empirical evidence exists that could possibly support his point (B), which is that if Reggie Miller played in today's era he'd miraculously become a completely different player than he was?

You mean, instead of taking a handful of 3's a game and playing against the Knicks, Bulls and Pistons in brutally physical sub-100 pt games......that he had open license to shoot as many 3's as he wanted in a wide open offense with 135-133 type games? Sure. Why would he be any different?

 

[huskyinfl]

Shooting a ton of 3's used to be viewed as taboo and selfish. It wasn't done.

Just like in the Jordan documentary those guys calling each other soft in the 80s and 90s. Curry isn't hitting those shots when he's getting punched in the face

 

[UofCT]

Why? What empirical evidence exists that could possibly support his point (B), which is that if Reggie Miller played in today's era he'd miraculously become a completely different player than he was?

For the majority of Reggie Millers career he played in an era when it was legal for defenders to hand check at the perimeter. Reggie's numbers would have improved monumentally if he had the same freedom that Ray, Steph, Klay, etc had.

 

[husky429]

You mean, instead of taking a handful of 3's a game and playing against the Knicks, Bulls and Pistons in brutally physical sub-100 pt games......that he had open license to shoot as many 3's as he wanted in a wide open offense with 135-133 type games? Sure. Why would he be any different?

You keep saying that the NBA has 135pt games. Have you actually looked up the stats? Because that's rare. Most teams are not the Wizards or Rockets.

Average team points per game in Reggie's first 11 seasons: 103.3PPG
Average team points per game in Steph's first 11 seasons: 103.7PPG

Interesting argument. But let's not make things up to try to win it.

Reggie era pace: 95.4
Steph era pace: 95.1

It isn't until the last couple years that PPG and pace has skyrocketed. Early 80s basketball (before Reggie) was high scoring and fast. As you'd expect both plummeted in the late 90s/early 2000s iso-era.

 

[Lefty2one]

For the majority of Reggie Millers career he played in an era when it was legal for defenders to hand check at the perimeter. Reggie's numbers would have improved monumentally if he had the same freedom that Ray, Steph, Klay, etc had.

Reggie's main offense was as a catch-and-shoot guy. Hand checking didn't have a huge impact on those guys, it primarily hindered guys whose game was built around penetration. Sure, he'd be able to penetrate more in today's game because every and their mother can. Players in today's league have the red carpet into the paint.

Ray Allen played 8 seasons in the NBA before hand-checking was outlawed.

But hey, thanks for telling me to read into the rule.

 

[Lefty2one]

Why? What empirical evidence exists that could possibly support his point (B), which is that if Reggie Miller played in today's era he'd miraculously become a completely different player than he was?

Right. Reggie and Klay are stylistically very similar. Reggie dropped in today's game would be a better version of Klay but he wouldn't turn into Harden or Steph or any of these new age playmakers who handle the ball all night and run a thousand high PnRs.

I have no doubt that Reggie would be near the top 3PA every year (doubtful he'd out-chuck Harden) and get into the lane more frequently because it's so easy to do so but he's not going to magically morph into some totally new player.

 

[UofCT]

Reggie's main offense was as a catch-and-shoot guy. Hand checking didn't have a huge impact on those guys, it primarily hindered guys whose game was built around penetration. Sure, he'd be able to penetrate more in today's game because every and their mother can. Players in today's league have the red carpet into the paint.

Ray Allen played 8 seasons in the NBA before hand-checking was outlawed.

But hey, thanks for telling me to read into the rule.

the 8 season in Milwaukee and Seattle when he had minimal success and in the other thread you said he was overlooked.