Recycling mediocre coaches

[HuskyNan]

Why? If the school is stingy and the team really stinks, what's the harm in trying a highly successful local AAU or high school coach for a few years? I don't understand this business of rehiring mediocre coaches.

Lisa Stone appears to be getting back in the coaching game.​

Stone, the former University of Wisconsin women's basketball coach, is expected to be announced this week as the new women's coach at Saint Louis University, according to sources involved in college women's basketball.​

Stone coached the Badgers for eight years, compiling a 128-119 record (.518). Her teams had a 95-68 record (.583) over her final five seasons.​

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Lisa Stone expected to be named SLU coach​

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[Wonkster]

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I've been b*tching about this for years. The answer is to get rid of lazy or gutless Athletic Directors who look to make 'safe' decisions.

Unfortunately, wcbb is a veritable laboratory for demonstrating the Peter Principle.
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[speedoo]

Well, even the the B1G does not compare very favorably to the other "BCS" conferences right now, whatever league St. Louis is in has to be even less competitive. So you could expect her to achieve a better WL record than she did at Wisconsin.

I'm not disagreeing with your point at all, nan, just pointing out why they might have hired her.

 

[HuskyNan]

Well, even the the B1G does not compare very favorably to the other "BCS" conferences right now, whatever league St. Louis is in has to be even less competitive. So you could expect her to achieve a better WL record than she did at Wisconsin.

I'm not disagreeing with your point at all, nan, just pointing out why they might have hired her.

I understand. It's just such a low bar to set for a school whose AD is quoted as saying:

"Women's basketball is a premier athletic program at SLU for which we have high expectations," May said. "With the unmatched St. Louis University education, the state-of-the-art Chaifetz Arena and fertile recruiting grounds in St. Louis and the Midwest, SLU women's basketball has all of the tools required to compete on a national level."​

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[speedoo]

I understand. It's just such a low bar to set for a school whose AD is quoted as saying:

"Women's basketball is a premier athletic program at SLU for which we have high expectations," May said. "With the unmatched St. Louis University education, the state-of-the-art Chaifetz Arena and fertile recruiting grounds in St. Louis and the Midwest, SLU women's basketball has all of the tools required to compete on a national level."​

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Yup, certainly not the first time an AD's actions did not match their words and it won't be the last either.

 

[EricLA]

it's funny when i first read the subject line, i thought it was a commentary on the recent tennessee hire...

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Mediocre coaches? I think you need to qualify this term or check to see how it is being applied.

Some coaches are better suited to mid-major programs. Maybe they are great teachers of the game but bad recruiters. So a smaller, non-BCS conference is the way to go. Look at Beth Burns. She had great success at SDSU, went to Ohio State but got fired after five years for not making the NCAA Tournament. She eventually went back to SDSU and led the school to the Sweet 16. Does her lack of success at Ohio State make her a mediocre coach?

This was Lisa Stone's record before her tenure at Wisconsin:


1988-89 UW-Eau Claire 24-4 NCAA Division III Elite Eight
1989-90 UW-Eau Claire 21-6 NCAA Division III Regional
1990-91 UW-Eau Claire 15-10
1991-92 UW-Eau Claire 23-5 NCAA Division III Elite Eight
1992-93 UW-Eau Claire 22-4 NCAA Division III Sweet 16
1993-94 UW-Eau Claire 23-6 NCAA Division III Final Four
1994-95 UW-Eau Claire 24-5 NCAA Division III Elite Eight
1995-96 UW-Eau Claire 25-4 NCAA Division III Elite Eight
1996-97 UW-Eau Claire 27-4 NCAA Division III Championship Game
1997-98 UW-Eau Claire 22-5 NCAA Division III Regional
1998-99 UW-Eau Claire 23-5 NCAA Division III Regional
1999-00 UW-Eau Claire 28-1 NCAA Division III Sweet 16
12 years 277-59 (.824)

2000-01 Drake 23-7 NCAA First Round
2001-02 Drake 25-8 NCAA Sweet 16
2002-03 Drake 16-12
3 years 64-27 (.703)

She clearly had success. She just did not have success at Wisconsin. Does that make her a mediocre coach? No. It made her a bad coach for Wisconsin but a better coach at a smaller program.

 

[HuskyNan]

Mediocre coaches? I think you need to qualify this term or check to see how it is being applied.

OK, I'll qualify it - mediocre Division I coach.

Yes, Drake went 23-7 in 2000-01, but the Bulldogs also went 23-7 and won the MVC Championship in 1999-2000 under Lisa Bluder before Bluder left to go to Iowa. Presumably much of the team returned the next year.

 

[DaddyChoc]

some weird way of why I dont think Jen is no better than Shea... if a AAU/HS coach can make the jump to even a "mid- major" etc. why cant a "well-groomed" elite asst coach make the jump (just thinking outloud)

 

[Icebear]

some weird way of why I dont think Jen is no better than Shea... if a AAU/HS coach can make the jump to even a "mid- major" etc. why cant a "well-groomed" elite asst coach make the jump (just thinking outloud)

Because mid-majors have more in common with great high school programs than a shift of responsibility from assistant to head coach.

 

[UcMiami]

I'm not sure this was a bad hire. So she was not great at Wisc. - she still had a winning record for a program that has seldom if ever made any noise. And even at small programs ADs like to hire someone who has HC experience at the college level - there is still a budget to be managed. The kind of hire that Oklahoma did with Cole is very rare in college at any level.

 

[ThisJustIn]

As a coach you have to find where you fit and feel right. Not everyone is meant for DI - and that doesn't make'em a "good" or "bad" coach. Heck, some DI coaches probably would flip at the restrictions and duties of the DII level.

Every level has its foibles -- just look at the successful men's college football coaches and their many unsuccessful stints in the NFL.

There's a bias surrounding the Divisions in basketball, as if one is more important than another. No, one gets more ATTENTION than the other.

I see that in education. Professors are "all that" and early childhood teachers are "ain't that cute." Most folks wouldn't last a week in a early childhood/elementary classroom.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

OK, I'll qualify it - mediocre Division I coach.

Yes, Drake went 23-7 in 2000-01, but the Bulldogs also went 23-7 and won the MVC Championship in 1999-2000 under Lisa Bluder before Bluder left to go to Iowa. Presumably much of the team returned the next year.

Even if that were the case, she improved on the team the year after, winning 25 games and making the Sweet 16.

 

[Vowelguy]

This is hardly unique to women's basketball though.

Exhibit A: the NFL, where coaches fail miserably and then get rehired again and again.

 

[Icebear]

Most folks wouldn't last a week in a early childhood/elementary classroom.

Perspective, dear TJI, perspective, I'm thinking most of those early elementary kids wouldn't survive in my classes.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Perspective, dear TJI, perspective, I'm thinking most of those early elementary kids wouldn't survive in my classes.

Well, we all know why....

And it's not the kids I'm talking about, it's the teachers... ;-)

 

[vtcwbuff]

SLU hired a WCBB coach - why not wait and see how she performs before labeling her mediocre?

 

[Bestiarius]

The primary requirement for Division 1 coaching is to look good on TV. Pretty, handsome, flashy dresser. Lisa Stone is a nice looking woman. Kim Mulkey, Nikki Caldwell, Matthew Mitchell, Geno, Muffet McGraw, Suzy Merchant, Harry Perretta ,,, er..never mind.

 

[HuskyNan]

Even if that were the case, she improved on the team the year after, winning 25 games and making the Sweet 16.

And went 16-13 in the third year with her recruits.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

And went 16-13 in the third year with her recruits.

And how many recruiting cycles would that have been? One, likely (meaning they would have been freshmen, adjusting to college ball).

 

[Dairyair]

This is hardly unique to women's basketball though.

Exhibit A: the NFL, where coaches fail miserably and then get rehired again and again.

And MLB, And MCBB, And College football and on and on...

 

[Brad Palmer]

Brian Giorgis (Marist)...successful HS and AAU coach went directly to D1. Joe Frager (Fairfield)...successful HS and AAU coach went directly to D2, won a national championship, then on to D1. Beryl Piper (CCSU)...successful HS and AAU coach went directly to D1.

All have been successful in college. On the women's side, name an example of someone going right from HS to D1 where it didn't work out?

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

As an aside, Stone was Big Ten Coach of the Year in 2009-10. She may not be the best coach, but she previously had success at the small school and mid-major levels and did nigh to garner a coaching award in a BCS conference. The return to mid-major status may turn out like Beth Burns at SDSU.