Recruiting has to get better

[Horatio]

Outside of our big three, the whole team is 3 stars.

Exactly and that's always been the Uconn way.

 

[superjohn]

That's the problem. You're a harpy.

You posit an argument that is obvious to everyone, imply that KO is unaware of what creates success and imply that people in this forum think it's better to not have talented players. In an of itself these points are ridiculous, but you conveniently overlook the two top ten classes KO recruited in 2016 and 2017 that had lots of star power. They just didn't pan out.
Zach Brown, Juwan Durham, Steve Enoch and MAL were all top four or five star players that, had they lived up to their potential and played yesterday, would have been the pieces to go toe to toe with Michigan State. We would not have had to band aid the team with David O., Kwintin W., Cobb and Anderson.

Every bad game you come to this forum and feel the need to blame someone or something for the loss. Worse is you dish it out but don't like the posters who take you to task over it. I understand the rotten feeling of losing and the potential danger of a program never recovering. Does it have to be thrown in people's faces every time?

So I agree with @MadDogRevival that you are Captain Obvious and you are reactionary at least with regards to this program.

One more point: If the players ever exhibited the attitude that some of the posters in this forum exhibit, the fan base would be all over them. And guess which posters would lead the charge?

It's not obvous to everyone though. We've had all sorts of posters saying they like our chances against anyone with a roster full of Polley's, Carlton's, and Akinjo's.

 

[superjohn]

Exactly and that's always been the Uconn way.

That's not true.

 

[8893]

That's the problem. You're a harpy.

You posit an argument that is obvious to everyone, imply that KO is unaware of what creates success and imply that people in this forum think it's better to not have talented players. In an of itself these points are ridiculous, but you conveniently overlook the two top ten classes KO recruited in 2016 and 2017 that had lots of star power. They just didn't pan out.
Zach Brown, Juwan Durham, Steve Enoch and MAL were all top four or five star players that, had they lived up to their potential and played yesterday, would have been the pieces to go toe to toe with Michigan State. We would not have had to band aid the team with David O., Kwintin W., Cobb and Anderson.

Every bad game you come to this forum and feel the need to blame someone or something for the loss. Worse is you dish it out but don't like the posters who take you to task over it. I understand the rotten feeling of losing and the potential danger of a program never recovering. Does it have to be thrown in people's faces every time?

So I agree with @MadDogRevival that you are Captain Obvious and you are reactionary at least with regards to this program.

One more point: If the players ever exhibited the attitude that some of the posters in this forum exhibit, the fan base would be all over them. And guess which posters would lead the charge?

My favorite is when we do well and he comes on here and says he told everyone we were better and the other team was worse.

He always has among the hottest of the hot takes, but like the magic man he combines it with saying enough different—and directly contradictory—things that he can always claim “I told you so” in one way or another.

 

[Bonk]

In order to improve recruiting Ollie needs to put a couple people into the league. Recruits want results. I hate to say it but that is why Calipari is so successful. All he has to say is, "I can do for you what I did for___".

 

[MadDogRevival]

Conference affiliation hasn't held back programs like Wichita State and Gonzaga.

Shockers - 13 Tournis, 2 , 0 Natties.
Gonzaga - 19 Tournis, 0 , 0 Natties.

Notwithstanding their national recognition and tournament footprints, it's a very easy counter argument that either of these programs would have more hardware if they were in P5 conferences.

 

[superjohn]

My favorite is when we do well and he comes on here and says he told everyone we were better and the other team was worse.

He always has among the hottest of the hot takes, but like the magic man he combines it with saying enough different—and directly contradictory—things that he can always claim “I told you so” in one way or another.

I said a bunch of times before we played Oregon that I expected us to win (Jalen will be the most talented player on the court) Oregon lost everyone from last year except for Prichard and it was ridiculous how many Uconn fans were predicting us to get blown out.

I love it when you make up things about me.

 

[8893]

I said a bunch of times before we played Oregon that I expected us to win (Jalen will be the most talented player on the court) Oregon lost everyone from last year except for Prichard and it was ridiculous how many Uconn fans were predicting us to get blown out.

I love it when you make up things about me.

Thank you.

Perfect.

Tell me again how MSU isn’t that good.

 

[ASweet3781]

Isn't it fair to ask how "recruiting can get better" when we lost Big Monday and BET at MSG as 2 huge tools to sell?

 

[superjohn]

Thank you.

Perfect.

Tell me again how MSU isn’t that good.

I think we win.

Seriously, this thread is depressing. People acting like we have no chance and are going to get blown out. Oregon lost pretty much everyone from last year and Jalen should be the best player on the court. The fan base is absolutely shook, from these posts you would think we were playing the Warriors instead of some mediocre Oregon team.

I don't think MSU is that good right now, it's your typical Izzo team where they will be a lot better come March. Last night was a big opportunity for us and we didn't play well. With their two big guys in foul trouble and sitting the whole first half we should have built up some sort of a lead by halftime.

 

[Wordbomar]

I think Ollie has done a good job setting a solid foundation and still think this is a 22 win or so team but we need to replace Jalen and Terry because the guys we have coming in are good players but not guys that will lead us back to consistent Second weekend program. I hope he can do it because it would be a disaster if we have to find another coach and people need to realize that him leaving is the worst possible scenario

 

[ctchamps]

It's not obvous to everyone though. We've had all sorts of posters saying they like our chances against anyone with a roster full of Polley's, Carlton's, and Akinjo's.

Some of these people are hopeful. They want to be positive but are not invested in that positive opinion. And yes there are some people who make claims with little or no evidence to support their contentions. Worse yet, some of this latter group makes those claims and then when reality proves otherwise they blame the object instead of realizing the problem came from unrealistic expectations. So what? How does that cause any impact in the team's results. Or on you for that matter unless you let it?

Certainly the world would be a better place with more rational thinking. However, if one is rational about this one would conclude that forcing people to think rationally won't work. If anything the lines become drawn and the positions become entrenched. And nothing gets accomplished.

 

[BUConn10]

It's not obvous to everyone though. We've had all sorts of posters saying they like our chances against anyone with a roster full of Polley's, Carlton's, and Akinjo's.

Dude drop it. You won't win this.

You are telling posters here their kid is ugly.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

It's about recruiting and coaching. Ollie needs to be better in both. That #8 class he brought in was a disaster. He needs to do a better job with what we have, need to make the tournament this year and he needs to bring in some top 50's for 2019.

That's 20-20 hindsight. Everyone on the board was thrilled with the 2016 class.

I'll agree that he needs to do a better job with what we have, but what we have is Larrier who hasn't played really in 2 years, Gilbert and Diarra coming of injury lost seasons, three solid freshmen who are ... freshmen, Williams who hasn't really played organized ball, 2 solid grad transfers and a Juco transfer, two of whom aren't offensive threats. We're five games into the season, and we've won three games we were supposed to win, and one we weren't. Patience is a virtue, give him a chance to do a better job.

Now, if they're looking the same at the end of January ... Houston we have a problem.

 

[August_West]

Shockers - 13 Tournis, 2 , 0 Natties.
Gonzaga - 19 Tournis, 0 , 0 Natties.

Notwithstanding their national recognition and tournament footprints, it's a very easy counter argument that either of these programs would have more hardware if they were in P5 conferences.

Gonzaga was national runner up last year

 

[Spaceman213J]

The recruiting is solid. The program needs to develop the talent to be successful. Napier was the last guy I can really remember whose game continued to develop over time. Hell, I think Brimah even regressed his senior year. Polley, Gilbert, Carlton all have chances to be really good players, but they must be developed. Adams need to improve his outside game like Kemba did.

 

[James]

No way this is a normal msu team , they have two lotto picks surrounded by numerous five stars. I’m happy with the effort in the first half, the bigs just need to get a bit better throughout the year and we need to pick up the shooting obviously.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Gonzaga was national runner up last year

Whoops! Shows two things - 1. My source wasn't updated. 2. My interest in NCAA basketball was at a lifetime low by March of last year. Lol.

 

[superjohn]

No way this is a normal msu team , they have two lotto picks surrounded by numerous five stars. I’m happy with the effort in the first half, the bigs just need to get a bit better throughout the year and we need to pick up the shooting obviously.

It's a typical Izzo MSU team in that they will look way better come March. They will lose more games early.

 

[8893]

It's a typical Izzo MSU team in that they will look way better come March. They will lose more games early.

It may be the most talented roster he’s ever had.

Saying they will be better in March is a qualifier that applies to more than 99% of teams.

We did not aquit ourselves well in the last ten minutes but you are selling short the talent on that MSU team imo, which actually seemed to be the main point of your harpy thread, i.e. we need to do a better job recruiting in order to compete with the likes of MSU. Doesn’t that assume that we are outmanned from the tip?

 

[superjohn]

It may be the most talented roster he’s ever had.

Saying they will be better in March is a qualifier that applies to more than 99% of teams.

We did not aquit ourselves well in the last ten minutes but you are selling short the talent on that MSU team imo, which actually seemed to be the main point of your harpy thread, i.e. we need to do a better job recruiting in order to compete with the likes of MSU. Doesn’t that assume that we are outmanned from the tip?

Get over yourself. Yes, Michigan State has way more talent from top to bottom than us and I don't think they are some juggernaut right now. There was an opportunity last night and we didn't play nearly well enough to take advantage of the opportunity.

By making the 99% of teams comment you are either being disingenuous or don't follow college basketball. Izzo's teams always drop games early and never looks all that good out of the gates, almost always a completely different team come March. He's similar to Calhoun in the regard. Where Boeheim's teams usually look like world beaters early and level off late.

 

[David 76]

They mor

They more than made up for the transfers when they got Wilson. I don't think talent is the problem. They have enough to the point that coaching is way more important.

Explain to me how a kid who can't play more than makes up for losing three highly recruited players and our top incoming recruit.

 

[David 76]

I like the kids we have now and the kids coming in but we simply have to get some 5 star type talents again. I see a ton of complimentary pieces with no real star power or players with ceilings that lead me to believe they can become stars (outside of Gilbert.) If Jalen and Terry are gone after this season, I worry we will be back to square one.

Remind me, is Ollie bad because he lets good players go while he is trying for a five star or is he bad because he doesn't get 5 star players?
At any rate, we were not about to get any 5 star players this last recruiting season.

If you want to criticise our lack of options on offense, that is a legitimate concern even five games into the season

 

[David 76]

Finally a voice of reason.
Our recruiting is vastly substandard and that includes next year's batch of 80 to 200 crew. Period.

Expect nothing more than an at large 12 seed at best. We aren't beating Cincinnati nor witch state at this rate.

You thought we were winning our conference and going to the Final.Four?

 

[TheChamps990411]

I think right now we have some nice pieces in place (Polley, Carlton, Gilbert) and more coming in. I think this season is about turning the ship around and getting it headed in the right direction. Next year you pick up some speed and hope you over achieve a bit. The following year is when you want to make a big leap and hopefully you can land a big recruit or two to compliment the guys you have that will have a season or two under their belts. I fully expect us to be back in final four picture by `19.

 

[Sea Goat]

Sure recruiting could always be better. Howoverever, the hallmark of our great UConn teams was the achieving player that Calhoun had recruited, nurtured and developed into a solid, if not spectacular, performer. His best teams became impressive cohesive units. Our championship teams, like their coach, had a "chip on their shoulders". Someone mentioned Napier earlier. He is a textbook example of what I'm talking about.

I think KO is a good recruiter, but as I have said before, he needs better assistants to help get the most out of his teams.
We don't have "complete players" knocking on our door. We have raw talent that needs work. They need to be molded and honed into better players. Calhoun excelled at that!
I think KO would be well served by some additional horsepower in the assistant coaching position to help do the same.

 

[Towney007]

This thread is a bummer, but let's be realistic for a second.

1.) This was a program coming off a loss of scholarships. Even with that, they somehow salvaged a national title AND landed some big recruiting classes rankings-wise. These guys have had a lot of obstacles and it's clear they can GET talented guys. Now coaching/developing, sure - we can talk all day about that, but they can get those guys.

2.) I don't care who you are or who you come up under or what program you have. Recruiting is hard and for a lot of coaches, it can take 4-5 years just to get some sort of idea of what you CAN get, what you SHOULD get and what you can and should get that you can get the most out of. Ollie's had some huge hits (Hamilton, Gilbert probably ends up being that, grad transfers have been useful almost across the board) and has had some embarrassing misses (name one).

But for him and every coach - it's finding a balance between reality and what actually, really works - and the kind of style you want to play. I think Ollie's getting closer to that. He's brought in some guys with the TALENT to play his style, but in terms of their mental makeup and Uconn-y ness... they weren't there. He's found some kids with bigtime UConn-y ness, but short on talent. This is the closest he's come in any year to finding a better balance throughout his roster. This is a dramatically better team than a year ago. World's better.

But

3.) This year, Ollie seems to have a team that, well - he likes and thinks he can coach - and so far - has done well with. He wants to play a style where guards can create. I'm not sure how effective that style will ultimately be - but it's clear that's what he's looking for. And he's got that. He's got older, rock solid players who he's either cultivated or grabbed as grad transfers/transfers that are good pieces. He did a good job making us serviceable up front this year - it's clearly an area we need to get better in. Defensively, you really can't argue with the results sans last year - Ollie's passed with flying colors in getting guys who can play D.

All things considered, this is the first year i've sat back, watched games and said - 'ok, I don't love everything, but there's a foundation here and an actual road map to what we need to get to take that next step.' These are UConn style kids - maybe not the talent level we had with Callhoun - but the opportunity to build back towards that is clearly there this year in a way it just hasn't been in the past few years. So a whopping four games into a season, I feel better now about the program than I have in a long, long time and where it's overall trajectory could be.

What's better is business/Dollars and cents aside, the AAC seems to be committed to getting better at hoops. Wichita will help. SMU has maintained in spite of challenges. Cincinnati is good. Houston is building to something, and even though Temple and Memphis are solid/unspectacular programs, they're not less offensive than say - a St John's in the Big East. The competition will be good and if we can keep our non-conference schedule challenging, we'll get the looks we need to keep the program's profile in an OK spot for a few more years.

We need bigs. And a Thabeet, Okafor kind of big... we need a shooter, maybe two. But all the other pieces are kind of there.

My question mark is whether Ollie's NBA style one on one, guards have the freedom to create individually philosophy can translate at the college level. I'm skeptical for a few reasons - but first and foremost because college kids aren't NBA kids and you need a very specific kind of kid to be able to run in that system. The second thing, is that you have to keep your recruiting at an incredibly high level at the guard position to do that - and expecting Gilberts and Adams type players every year isn't realistic. The third problem is that if you're a big or a scoring wing, i'm not sure how excited i'd be about coming to a program where everything is going to depend on someone else's creativity. The other part of me says that the one and done type kids might see some success here and say - 'hey, this guy is running a system that's going to help me at the next level' and might be tempted. Who knows. I'm more skeptical than I am optimistic, but nowhere near to the degree that i'd dismiss it outright. I'm willing to give it a shot.

So I dunno - I think we'll ultimately be OK - but we're a gun slinging, fun team... we'll probably play over our heads. We'll win some games we have no business winning. We'll lose some that'll be total head scratchers... all for the same reasons. We'll see.

But what I do know - is there's a road map. It's really, really, really clear what we do well. It's really clear what we've got a chance to do better. It's clear we've got a chance to get a lot better and turn a few heads in March... it's also clear we're really flawed and the wrong match ups will spell long nights. Plain and simple.

But i'm ok with that. That's a big step forward considering 2 of the last 3 years.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Also, CV is 0-9 from the field in this tournament. Missed another fast break layup last night. We’re really hurting for complimentary scoring and he, unfortunately, hasn’t provided it. Pulling for him to show up against Arky.

Vital gets this year's Amida Brimah award: 40 points against Coppin State followed by 1 point against a real opponent, Duke. CV gets 30 against Boston University and follows with zero against two better opponents in Oregon and Michigan State. Geez. No one expected him to be Mr 30 PPG, but how about 8-12?

 

[4in16]

He had 5 pts and 6 rbs vs Oregon, all from the line but not a 0. I do agree he’s gonna need to contribute more, we’ll see how he rebounds vs Arkansas shooting wise.

Vital gets this year's Amida Brimah award: 40 points against Coppin State followed by 1 point against a real opponent, Duke. CV gets 30 against Boston University and follows with zero against two better opponents in Oregon and Michigan State. Geez. No one expected him to be Mr 30 PPG, but how about 8-12?

 

[champs99and04]

I can understand the OP's point in that we should have had a better team on the floor yesterday. Gilbert, Adams, and Larrier, for the most part, played to script. They might not have been as good as MSU's top guys but they belonged. As fans that's all we can ask for.

I can understand the resistance to that point in that the damage is done and that all we can do is look forward. Nobody wanted to be in the situation we were in a few months ago, but in the time since, everybody within the program has made the most of what they've had. In a way, it's a refreshing return to a familiar beginning - things are far from ideal, but maybe being forced to simplify things isn't so bad. It's served them well in the past.

If we're telling the tale objectively, I think both perspectives have to be included. And if we're doing that, re-visiting the timeline that brought us here should be painful. Theoretically, our two upperclassmen building blocks - Adams and Larrier - were supposed to reach their apexes right as our top recruiting class - "the top five" - developed into something reliably formidable. Michigan State, last night, showcased their all-world sophomore class on the same court we were supposed to do the same. Only difference is, their class - consisting of the #10, #20, #29, and #41 recruits, per Rivals - progressed as expected, without any hiccups.

Now, their class was more talented than ours and better suited to make an immediate impact on the CBB world, but the the presence of our junior class - which would have been the first full class of upperclassmen post sanctions and included somebody like Steve Enoch - would have helped offset that disparity. Provided everything had unfolded in accordance with expectation, last night's tilt would have been an evenly matched bout between heavy-weights, and that's without accounting for the assortment of other things that have gone wrong - the Durham ACL tears, the Diarra knee issues, the MAL de-commitment, the Diallo fiasco - in the process of us arriving to this point.

The bottom line is that the two programs follow trajectories that are more fickle than most will admit. Fickle does not mean there is no component of accountability, but from afar I am more inclined to view these developments as among our great modern tragedies rather than an urge to reform our recruiting strategy.