Rebecca's and Kara's Top 5

[UConnCat]

Rebecca and Kara revealed their top 5 during tonight's First Night broadcast. They both picked the same 5 teams but the order after UConn and Duke differ slightly.

Rebecca

1. UConn
2. Duke
3. Tennessee
4. Maryland
5. Louisville

Kara

1. UConn
2. Duke
3. Maryland
4. Louisville
5. Tennessee

Kara said Stewart is the most talented player in the country.

 

[stwainfan]

I think Maryland will be interesting to see. They get some injured players back this year. They had a good year last year even with injuries. I do agree with that group but Notre Dame is the one other team I would put in there.

 

[UConnCat]

Rebecca and Kara preview UConn:

http://espn.go.com/espnw/video/9846111/uconn-midnight-madness

 

[pap49cba]

Interesting that neither of them picked ND for their top five.

 

[Phil]

Interesting that neither of them picked ND for their top five.

Heh, I was just about to say that.

 

[doggydaddy]

I think many here, including myself was burned with early season prediction on ND. Many thought the graduation of Peters, et al, would be tough to overcome.

So, now it comes down to how much you think the loss of Diggins means.

I'm thinking a big loss and a big adjustment for the players. And with a freshman point guard, there is no way they are as good as last year.

 

[Phil]

I think many here, including myself was burned with early season prediction on ND. Many thought the graduation of Peters, et al, would be tough to overcome.

So, now it comes down to how much you think the loss of Diggins means.

I'm thinking a big loss and a big adjustment for the players. And with a freshman point guard, there is no way they are as good as last year.

Count me among those who counted out ND last year after the prior year graduation. I think they lost less with the loss of Diggins than they did with the loss of Novosel and Peters. Couple that with the usual improvement of underclassmen, and a decent frosh class, and I'm expecting another FF.

 

[chrissaran]

Notre Dame lost three starters; they also lost Brittany Mallory. Notre Dame will be better than Louisville, without question. Who would you rather have McBride or Shimmel? Shimmel is all flash and no consistency. Another volume shooter. Who would you rather have Ochonwa or Hammond? Again no contest. Lloyd will be even better and they have a strong freshman class. It is difficult to win an NC with a freshman guard. UConn found that out. However, other than Maya, this ND team is better than UConn during Maya's senior season.

 

[UcMiami]

Notre Dame lost three starters; they also lost Brittany Mallory. Notre Dame will be better than Louisville, without question. Who would you rather have McBride or Shimmel? Shimmel is all flash and no consistency. Another volume shooter. Who would you rather have Ochonwa or Hammond? Again no contest. Lloyd will be even better and they have a strong freshman class. It is difficult to win an NC with a freshman guard. UConn found that out. However, other than Maya, this ND team is better than UConn during Maya's senior season.

ummm I would take Kelly from that year over anyone on NDs roster, and Tiff, Stef, and Bria weren't exactly chopped liver either. You must thing that ND has 4 or 5 AAs in the making this year to match that. Me ... I am not that sure.

 

[Sonny44]

Put ND in the top 5, remove Louisville.

 

[chrissaran]

UcMiami, do you remember the semifinal game against Notre Dame? Tiffany had four points, two on a layup in the last minute. It was Maya on five for the most part. Kelly couldn't shoot at all from outside. Stef was not in shape and Bria was a freshman. This Notre Dame team, outside of Maya, is better than UConn's other four from Maya's senior season. Tiffany was much better when Maya, Tina and Kaleena were there to carry the burden. She was a supporting player, not a star player. To say you would take Kelly during her freshman season over Kayla McBride in her senior season speaks of UConn prejudice. Sorry to say that McBride is a much better overall player as a senior than Kelly was as a freshman, by far. Why was she able to burn us for the past three years?

 

[UcMiami]

UcMiami, do you remember the semifinal game against Notre Dame? Tiffany had four points, two on a layup in the last minute. It was Maya on five for the most part. Kelly couldn't shoot at all from outside. Stef was not in shape and Bria was a freshman. This Notre Dame team, outside of Maya, is better than UConn's other four from Maya's senior season. Tiffany was much better when Maya, Tina and Kaleena were there to carry the burden. She was a supporting player, not a star player. To say you would take Kelly during her freshman season over Kayla McBride in her senior season speaks of UConn prejudice. Sorry to say that McBride is a much better overall player as a senior than Kelly was as a freshman, by far. Why was she able to burn us for the past three years?

Kelly's sophmore season and gee ... let me chose one game to base my evaluation on - McBride and Loyd were a combined 10 of 37 in the final four last year - why would you want such ball hog bad shooters over a player like Kelly?
2011 Stats
Kelly 2011 stats - 7.8 ppg at 42.5%, 6.7 rpg, 142 A, 86 TO, 22 Blk, 70 stls 1.65 A/TO
McBride 2013 stats - 15.9 ppg at 45.3%, 4.6 rpg, 88 A, 73 TO, 8 Blk, 57 stls, 1.2 A/TO
Obviously McBride scores more, but Kelly as we know is more important for all the other things she does and between rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals and being the superior defender the overall effect on the final score is probably a wash between the two.
As for the other pieces (excepting Maya)
Stef 2011 - 10.2 ppg 61.6%, 6.1 rpg, 60 A, 78 TO, 46 Blk, 20 stls
Achonwa 2013 - 13.8 ppg 52%, 9.5 rpg, 85 A, 82 TO, 34 Blk, 41 stls
Bria 2011 - 12.4 ppg 46.8%, 3.6 rpg, 110 A, 100 TO, 2 Blk, 45 stls
Loyd 2013 - 12.5 ppg 44.7%, 5.2 rpg, 76 A, 76 TO, 11 Blk, 35 stls
Tiff 2011 - 13.7 ppg 43.6%, 4.6 rpg, 139 A, 91 TO, 15 Blk, 52 stls
Braker 2013 - 5.4 ppg 58.1%, 5.4 rpg, 61 A, 34 TO, 45 Blk, 39 stls

So ... I would say based on last years stats the ND starters might have a little edge but are pretty comparable to the 2011 Uconn starters with your little exception of Maya Moore - the only 3 time Wade trophy winner in the history of WCBB and the winningest player in WBB over the last 10 years. I agree that is a minor exception barely worth mentioning and I am sure that the returning ND players will improve dramatically now that they have lost their two time AA point guard and emotional leader and have turned to a freshman point guard, and that improvement plus their great freshman class will easily offset the minor contributions Maya made her senior year.
Players like Maya, Parker, and DT and to a lesser extent Diggins exert an incredible influence on their teams and I honestly do not see who steps in for Diggins this year at ND. McBride is a very good player but I don't see her as a 'facilitator' but more as a complementary player who depends on other teammates to be effective. I may be wrong and she and ND may surprise, but I certainly do not see them as better than the 2011 version of Uconn because that team had very good complementary pieces and they had Maya.

 

[UConnCat]

I think many here, including myself was burned with early season prediction on ND. Many thought the graduation of Peters, et al, would be tough to overcome.

So, now it comes down to how much you think the loss of Diggins means.

I'm thinking a big loss and a big adjustment for the players. And with a freshman point guard, there is no way they are as good as last year.

I agree with you. If Allen struggles as is often the case with freshman pgs, where does Muffet turn? The back-up is apparently McBride which changes things in a big way.

Muffet has scheduled smartly, no elite-level challenge until Jan 20 vs Tenn. The young pg will have time to gain some confidence.

 

[EricLA]

You guys make some interesting and good points, and certainly the debate is interesting. How much of an impact will the loss of Skyler have on ND? No sane person would say she won't be missed. BUT she had a solid but unepectacular rookie campaign in the WNBA

Started only 21 of 35 games and was removed as a starter for the last portion of the season in favor of fellow rookie Angel Goodrich. She ended the season 3rd in rookie scoring, but her numbers were very close to Alex Bentley's, and if you take into consideration production per minute, she is no better than 5th or 6th among rookies. Not bad, but not great.

My point is, how much WILL she be missed? Yes a fantastic leader for her team in college, but I think the jury is still out on whether her production can be replaced. I think her leadership might be more difficult to replace, but Jewel Loyd had a chance to start 35 out of 36 games as a freshman and Kayla and Natalie certainly have it in them to be vocal leaders as well. And Bracker and Wright were also big contributors last year and both are upper classmen.

Muffett gave a LOT of PT to everyone on team. The least went to Huffman, who was just over 8 minutes per game. Every other player averaged double digit minutes. ND may not have the "star power" of some teams (I bet outside of ND fans, not many people could tell you much about Braker), but ND is going to be really good this year (IMHO)...

I do agree that "penciling in" Lindsey Allen, a freshman, as the starting PG is a huge question mark. but ND has a lot of guards (7 per their roster) and Muffett has a lot of options to choose from.

To me, Notre Dame, Maryland, and Tennessee are some of the most interesting non-UCONN stories this year as all 3 teams have huge unknowns they plan to rely heavily on.

 

[UConnCat]

You guys make some interesting and good points, and certainly the debate is interesting. How much of an impact will the loss of Skyler have on ND? No sane person would say she won't be missed. BUT she had a solid but unepectacular rookie campaign in the WNBA

My point is, how much WILL she be missed? Yes a fantastic leader for her team in college, but I think the jury is still out on whether her production can be replaced. I think her leadership might be more difficult to replace, but Jewel Loyd had a chance to start 35 out of 36 games as a freshman and Kayla and Natalie certainly have it in them to be vocal leaders as well. And Bracker and Wright were also big contributors last year and both are upper classmen.

Muffett gave a LOT of PT to everyone on team. The least went to Huffman, who was just over 8 minutes per game. Every other player averaged double digit minutes. ND may not have the "star power" of some teams (I bet outside of ND fans, not many people could tell you much about Braker), but ND is going to be really good this year (IMHO)...

I do agree that "penciling in" Lindsey Allen, a freshman, as the starting PG is a huge question mark. but ND has a lot of guards (7 per their roster) and Muffett has a lot of options to choose from.

Diggins' success or lack of success in the WNBA is not relevant to how ND will do without her. It was not surprising to see her struggle in the WNBA because the way she played at ND (the ball in her hands a lot) was never going to be successful in the WNBA. I watched some of her games where she kept dribbling the ball and was unable to get by average WNBA defenders which was never the case at ND. Diggins' struggles were reminiscent of Renee's struggles; both are small and in college their coaches put the ball in their hands a lot. That approach doesn't work in the WNBA.

ND's other players benefited from Diggins' ability to handle the ball and create shots for herself and for them. That's not going to happen with Allen so everyone on the team will need to adjust. As for ND's plethora of guards, Muffet announced before the European tour that 3 players would compete for the starting pg spot (Allen, Holloway and Mabrey) and after the tour Allen won the job and the other 2 didn't impress enough to be the backup (Allen struggled against the better European competition as well) as McBride is now the back-up pg going in to the season.

ND will be very good because it still has an excellent coach and 3 very good players (Loyd, McBride and Achonwa) and will have a good shot at the FF with a favorable match-up and the benefits of homecourt.

 

[semper]

I think ND in the top five....but the year after that, they will be "really" interesting, and could give us serious trouble once again.

 

[chrissaran]

UcMiami, I can't stand when people can't read. Who said that Maya was a little or minor exception? You because you can't read. Did Notre Dame beat us with Maya in the semi finals of her senior season? Question asked and answered. Has Notre Dame won the majority of its games with UConn over the past three years? Question asked and answered. When you learn how to read, you can criticize me. Until then, keep your posts to yourself. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[UcMiami]

UcMiami, I can't stand when people can't read. Who said that Maya was a little or minor exception? You because you can't read. Did Notre Dame beat us with Maya in the semi finals of her senior season? Question asked and answered. Has Notre Dame won the majority of its games with UConn over the past three years? Question asked and answered. When you learn how to read, you can criticize me. Until then, keep your posts to yourself. You're embarrassing yourself.

Quote: This Notre Dame team, outside of Maya, is better than UConn's other four from Maya's senior season. - So your argument being that ND will obviously be a FF team only make sense if you feel that Maya is not much of a factor when compared to the incoming freshman and last years bench for ND. Personally - I do not see a whole bunch of difference between the other 4 players and yes, I think Kelly's sophomore year compares pretty closely to McBride's junior year which might turn out to be her best year now she no longer has Diggins drawing so much attention and setting her up.
Did ND win a majority of their games against Uconn that year? No. And have they won any NCs with their current players. No. Questions answered. I read what was written and posted some facts. And some opinions. Don't see ND being a favorite for a FF berth but anything can happen, and certainly do not see them as a likely NC

 

[chrissaran]

UcMiami, either you can't read or you need glasses. I never said Notre Dame won a majority of their games over UConn during Maya's senior year, but they did win the most important game, the semi final game. What I said was has Notre Dame won the majority of their games over UConn during the last three years. Yes, they have. We won the most important one against Notre Dame this year like they won the most important game during Maya's senior year. Notre Dame being a Final Four team is a possibility. While Diggins was excellent, they will be a more complete team, not having to rely so much on one player. If they didn't have McBride and Ochonwa it might be a different story. They have as much talent as most of the teams that will challenge for the championship. The experts aren't always right. Look at the picks of the people on the football shows. They are wrong more than you would think considering they're coaches and former players. Just because Rebecca and Kara didn't pick Notre Dame for their top five doesn't make it so. At the beginning of last year I said that the double post offense wouldn't work. I heard all the, "So you know more than Geno does." The double post offense didn't work. Stef and Breanna were often in the same place at the same time. The offense was much better when Breanna was allowed to roam around. Knowing that Breanna was not a traditional post player, too small of frame, made it an easy read. She's not a post player. Her strength is her ability to keep moving. All the naysayers were wrong. UConn won because Breanna did what she does best. No, it was not Breanna alone. If not for her, UConn would not have defeated Notre Dame in the semi finals. She impacted the defense as well as the offense.

 

[Icebear]

Chris, why do you feel it necessary to start with an insult? Why not just clarify yourself or the misunderstanding? The insult adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[meyers7]

At the beginning of last year I said that the double post offense wouldn't work. I heard all the, "So you know more than Geno does." The double post offense didn't work.

ummm, they don't/didn't run a double post offense last year (or ever that I can remember). They run a motion offense. Usually either a 4-1 or 5-0. However within that system they will utilize a hi-lo option (usually Dolson hi and Stewart lo), which they did to devastating effect.

 

[doggydaddy]

ummm, they don't/didn't run a double post offense last year (or ever that I can remember). They run a motion offense. Usually either a 4-1 or 5-0. However within that system they will utilize a hi-lo option (usually Dolson hi and Stewart lo), which they did to devastating effect.

Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[chrissaran]

Icebear, the insult is when people misread what I post and then put words in my mouth when it's not what I said. It has nothing to do with a misunderstanding. They read what they wanted to read, not what I posted. All the criticism I took last year about the double post offense proved to be wrong. Time proved that. I knew what I was talking about, but if you doubt anything that UConn does your being negative. Those who believe everything they're told and those who don't believe anything they're told I don't want to hear from because their voice has no merit.

 

[Icebear]

No, you unnecessarily insulted other's ability to read. True or not it was unnecessary. All you needed to do was clarify. It is incumbent on the person stating something to clarify not a reader to guess at possible meanings.

Your understanding of UCONN offense is as wrong now as it was then.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Icebear, the insult is when people misread what I post and then put words in my mouth when it's not what I said. It has nothing to do with a misunderstanding. They read what they wanted to read, not what I posted. All the criticism I took last year about the double post offense proved to be wrong. Time proved that. I knew what I was talking about, but if you doubt anything that UConn does your being negative. Those who believe everything they're told and those who don't believe anything they're told I don't want to hear from because their voice has no merit.

Read Meyers7's post above, take 2 aspirin and call us in the morning. We can all have a bad day.