Really? Is it that much worse?

[doggydaddy]

2012-13 big east

75-48
85-51
87-52
67-31
76-43
94-37
91-44
105-49
90-30
76-36
85-51
94-61

Worst 12 league games. Average game 85.4-44.4


2013-14 AAC

67-34
77-49
90-49
90-40
80-36
83-49
81-53
93-56
86-29
102-41
83-35
92-41

Worst 12 league games. Average game 85.3-42.7

Sure, the 2012-13 regular season had more competitive games with 3 against ND and the close game against SJU and AAC loses Louisville and RU next year, but comparing bottom to bottom, in 75% of the worst games, there is no difference.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Enough with your stats and logic!!! We are dooooooomed!!!

 

[HoopsFan21]

The school is actively trying to get itself out of this conference. I wonder why. I guess some of you know better than president Herbst? You guys should give her a call and let her know that this conference isn't so bad.

 

[doggydaddy]

The school is actively trying to get itself out of this conference. I wonder why. I guess some of you know better than president Herbst? You guys should give her a call and let her know that this conference isn't so bad.

That's what you got from my post?

The conference is horrible. My point is that except for a couple of teams, it was equally as bad in the Big East last year and if I looked back further, the same would apply to prior years.

I'll mention you to Susan next time I see her.

On edit - women's basketball has NOtHING to do with conference realignment. It's all about football.

 

[ThisJustIn]

The school is actively trying to get itself out of this conference. I wonder why. I guess some of you know better than president Herbst? You guys should give her a call and let her know that this conference isn't so bad.

I appreciate you missing the point....

 

[meyers7]

Sure, the 2012-13 regular season had more competitive games with 3 against ND and the close game against SJU and AAC loses Louisville and RU next year, but comparing bottom to bottom, in 75% of the worst games, there is no difference.

And there is where the difference is. Next year (and that's what we have always been talking about) there is no top couple of teams and the bottom. Next year it's just the bottom.

 

[doggydaddy]

And there is where the difference is. Next year (and that's what we have always been talking about) there is no top couple of teams and the bottom. Next year it's just the bottom.

And hopefully an additional top OOC game to help make up for it.

Sorry, maybe that is what you have been talking about. But in the Houston game thread, it looked like posters have never seen games that bad. It's nothing new and the majority of games in prior years were just like it.

 

[msf22b]

Doggy

I understand your point and can't argue with your research.

Perhaps the real problem is that this team (our team)
is so potentially splendid
That its true impact
can only be appreciated through real competition.
Of which there has been precious little this season.
(I sympathize with Stewie's boredom in events such as yesterday's).
At least, a decent crowd would have helped.
But even that was lacking.

Perhaps even the NCAA's will be a cakewalk.
That even mighty ND will be no match.
But that, I would enjoy seeing.

 

[UcMiami]

The school is actively trying to get itself out of this conference. I wonder why. I guess some of you know better than president Herbst? You guys should give her a call and let her know that this conference isn't so bad.

Really has nothing to do with WCBB. Football drives the bus followed by Men's basketball. WCBB will end up where those two want to be (and can get.)

 

[EricLA]

DD is right. This year the bottom of the AAC was no worse than the bottom of the Big East. Next year will be different - I believe we add Tulsa, Tulane and East Carolina. Here's a positive spin. UCONN now has 2 games every year in talent rich Texas. One game in Louisiana (Kalani Brown anyone?). And one in North Carolina. Again, I'm not advocating that the conference is strong, or even very good. But Tulane and ECU are 19-7, and 21-5. But in 2015, those 2 along with SMU, Memphis, USF, Cinci and Temple will all be battling for 2nd place behind UCONN.

The problem obviously is at the top of the conference. UCONN will likely be the only team ranked for the foreseeable future means it will be hard for UCONN to have any competitive game once the conference play starts. Look at the ACC - almost every game is meaningful. Same in the SEC. Starting next year, UCONN won't have an interesting game after about Jan 15. That's 2 months of boredom for fans and players.

Don't get me wrong - I love the blowouts. But just like the players get antsy for the season so start in November because all they play is each other and the male practice players, so will next season be that way from about mid January till the NCAA's start in mid March.

Equally concerning for the AAC is that not a single team outside of UCONN recruiting a single player in the top 100. Not one single school. Pretty pathetic for a conference that is anchored by UCONN and has 2 other head coaches who are former UCONN players and asst coaches.

Let's be honest. The conference sucks. Hopefully sooner rather than later UCONN is invited by another conference and can leave. But for now we have to hope that our fellow conference mates improve their programs. And schedule a TON of competitive OOC games.

I honestly say it's time to say no if possible to Hartford, Monmouth, BU, Hofstra, St. Bonnie, UC Davis, etc. But this year UCONN actually played Stanford, Maryland, PSU, Oregon, Ohio State, Baylor, Duke, Cal, etc. Our OOC slate was excellent. We need even more of that next year if possible while dropping 3 or so of the cupcakes...

 

[geordi]

"Perhaps the real problem is that this team (our team)
is so potentially splendid
That its true impact
can only be appreciated through real competition.
Of which there has been precious little this season."

I don't know how you can say that. There is no conference in America in which UConn wouldn't be undefeated and winning by 37 or more. They have scheduled, played, and beaten #3 Louisville (17), #5 Stanford (19), #6 Baylor (11), #7 Duke (22), #8 Maryland (17), #9 Penn State (19), #18 California (33), and Rutgers (30). Even if that were the conference we were in we would be beating them by 21 points average. No other team in the country has as difficult a schedule as we do. We are just damn, damn good.

 

[msf22b]

"Perhaps the real problem is that this team (our team)
is so potentially splendid
That its true impact
can only be appreciated through real competition.
Of which there has been precious little this season."

I don't know how you can say that. There is no conference in America in which UConn wouldn't be undefeated and winning by 37 or more. They have scheduled, played, and beaten #3 Louisville (17), #5 Stanford (19), #6 Baylor (11), #7 Duke (22), #8 Maryland (17), #9 Penn State (19), #18 California (33), and Rutgers (30). Even if that were the conference we were in we would be beating them by 21 points average. No other team in the country has as difficult a schedule as we do. We are just damn, damn good.

I think you confirm my point

 

[DobbsRover2]

For all those who are busy rending their drab American garments, and shrieking hysterically about the coming nuclear winters for UConn ahead in the AAC while they dig deeply the moribund conference's grave, I know this isn't the best time to break into your profound gloom with some cheery news, but I just wanted to share some unfortunately happy tidbits about a certain team that's starting to look fairly bullish after rising from the ashes. I know no one wants to take any notice of this particular team, even though in the Massey and Sagarin ratings it has zoomed well above some overrated teams that Charlie Creme is still mindlessly stuck on. But the good news for those who want to throw off the sackcloths and ashes is that it's an AAC team, impossible as it is to believe.

This resurgent team actually was in the NCAA tourney last year and won a game there before losing a nailbiter to a Cal team that went on to the FF. This year things did not start out well for them and at the end of December they were 6-7 and coming off a recent four-game skid. But since then they've gone 9-4, with the only losses coming to two teams now ranked #1 and #3 in the nation. Sagarin has recently boosted the Bulls' rank to #42, well into the tourney selection area, and Massey has them rated at #52 with a delta score of +21 for their 21-place leap recently. Going into a regular season finale three games hence at Rutgers, they are projected to be 12-5 in the AAC and 17-11 overall. Not a bad resume, but Creme has sad sack teams like Indiana, 5-9 in the B10 but 17-9 overall ahead of them because of one of the most horrendously bad OOC schedules you could draw up. Just sad.

So maybe USF's fate does come down to winning the rematch at the RAC and tying the Knights for 3rd in the AAC. But if USF can reel off a bunch more wins and get an invite to the NCAA tourney, the doom-and-gloomers will just have to be in a foul mood about a next year's conference mate doing well. Maybe dd will be able to give Sue a call and give her the message, "Don't worry, be happy. A crack of light has appeared on the horizon, and we are not alone anymore."

 

[HuskyNan]

Watching UConn play UCF the other night was painful, like watching someone kick a kitten (sorry for that imagery). I had to turn the game off at half time.

 

[Kibitzer]

"The American," as they are wont to call themselves, is not presently a good wcbb conference. In years to come, some teams will develop and become competitive, some will fall by the wayside. Development starts at the top. The administrations at Seton Hall and Providence, in the old Big East, were clearly not committed to excellence in wcbb. Rutgers and Louisville were.

Let's pause a moment and consider possibly a worst case situation: Houston University (wcbb only). At present, they are a doormat. Their arena is ancient, tradition non-existent, fan base invisible, and coaching a mystery. The former head coach (mediocrity exemplified) resigned in December for as yet inexplicable reasons. His long-time assistant took over the reins (certainly not the reigns!) and he gives no indication of being a ball of fire, courtside or out recruiting regionally against Baylor, UT, or Texas A&M, let alone Duke, Notre Dame, Stanford or UConn.

So, Houston has a problem. It's a mess.

Now, let's watch and see what, if anything, Houston U. officials do about it. If, in the next few months, we see no commitment to either upgrade their arena or their coaching staff (at least one!), you can write them off as doormats in the American for the forseeable future.

I cannot imagine that any university in Texas would be so lacking in pride that they would allow this to happen.

We'll watch and see, at Houston and other poor performers in the UConn wcbb conference.

 

[diggerfoot]

DD is right. This year the bottom of the AAC was no worse than the bottom of the Big East. Next year will be different - I believe we add Tulsa, Tulane and East Carolina. Here's a positive spin. UCONN now has 2 games every year in talent rich Texas. One game in Louisiana (Kalani Brown anyone?). And one in North Carolina. Again, I'm not advocating that the conference is strong, or even very good. But Tulane and ECU are 19-7, and 21-5. But in 2015, those 2 along with SMU, Memphis, USF, Cinci and Temple will all be battling for 2nd place behind UCONN.

The problem obviously is at the top of the conference. UCONN will likely be the only team ranked for the foreseeable future means it will be hard for UCONN to have any competitive game once the conference play starts. Look at the ACC - almost every game is meaningful. Same in the SEC. Starting next year, UCONN won't have an interesting game after about Jan 15. That's 2 months of boredom for fans and players.

Don't get me wrong - I love the blowouts. But just like the players get antsy for the season so start in November because all they play is each other and the male practice players, so will next season be that way from about mid January till the NCAA's start in mid March.

Equally concerning for the AAC is that not a single team outside of UCONN recruiting a single player in the top 100. Not one single school. Pretty pathetic for a conference that is anchored by UCONN and has 2 other head coaches who are former UCONN players and asst coaches.

Let's be honest. The conference sucks. Hopefully sooner rather than later UCONN is invited by another conference and can leave. But for now we have to hope that our fellow conference mates improve their programs. And schedule a TON of competitive OOC games.

I honestly say it's time to say no if possible to Hartford, Monmouth, BU, Hofstra, St. Bonnie, UC Davis, etc. But this year UCONN actually played Stanford, Maryland, PSU, Oregon, Ohio State, Baylor, Duke, Cal, etc. Our OOC slate was excellent. We need even more of that next year if possible while dropping 3 or so of the cupcakes...

ESD: To me you fly under the radar as one of the "researchers" on the BY, perhaps because your volume of posts puts you in virtually all categories. I know I've never expressed my appreciation for the information you often bring to the table. This seems like a good opportunity to do that to additionally express my support for your "let's make the best of the present and hope for the future" approach to our regrettable conference situation.

 

[UcMiami]

Not unlike Seton Hall and Providence for the last 20 years, Nan. And the interesting thing is that UCF might actually improve - they were certainly a much better team before their lost their best player.

 

[UcMiami]

"The American," as they are wont to call themselves, is not presently a good wcbb conference. In years to come, some teams will develop and become competitive, some will fall by the wayside. Development starts at the top. The administrations at Seton Hall and Providence, in the old Big East, were clearly not committed to excellence in wcbb. Rutgers and Louisville were.

Let's pause a moment and consider possibly a worst case situation: Houston University (wcbb only). At present, they are a doormat. Their arena is ancient, tradition non-existent, fan base invisible, and coaching a mystery. The former head coach (mediocrity exemplified) resigned in December for as yet inexplicable reasons. His long-time assistant took over the reins (certainly not the reigns!) and he gives no indication of being a ball of fire, courtside or out recruiting regionally against Baylor, UT, or Texas A&M, let alone Duke, Notre Dame, Stanford or UConn.

So, Houston has a problem. It's a mess.

Now, let's watch and see what, if anything, Houston U. officials do about it. If, in the next few months, we see no commitment to either upgrade their arena or their coaching staff (at least one!), you can write them off as doormats in the American for the forseeable future.

I cannot imagine that any university in Texas would be so lacking in pride that they would allow this to happen.

We'll watch and see, at Houston and other poor performers in the UConn wcbb conference.

During yesterdays game I believe they said the school is already building a new training facility for Men's and Women's basketball and once that is complete then the arena is getting a complete overhaul.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

That's what you got from my post?

The conference is horrible. My point is that except for a couple of teams, it was equally as bad in the Big East last year and if I looked back further, the same would apply to prior years.

I'll mention you to Susan next time I see her.

On edit - women's basketball has NOtHING to do with conference realignment. It's all about football.

It's unfortunate, but if your football team isn't bringing in big bucks, the other sports will suffer. Men's basketball makes money, too, but even the top schools don't make as much as schools with average football programs.

 

[DobbsRover2]

It's unfortunate, but if your football team isn't bringing in big bucks, the other sports will suffer. Men's basketball makes money, too, but even the top schools don't make as much as schools with average football programs.

Ah, but the key is they also often don't spend as much either. And you can run up huge deficits pursuing the almighty football dollar, especially when you step way over the ethical boundaries like USC, PSU, UNC, Michigan, Miami, Ohio State, yada yada in the chase for the football dollars. Plus, whoever said you had to have a good football program to bring in revenue? Duke, KY, Minnesota, and Illinois are just a few of the programs who pull in nice enough revenue margins without a history of good football teams (post Red Grange). Meanwhile the the revenues and expenses figures for many of the top programs are basically even, as the free-spending monsters eats up its school's revenues in the chase for football prominence while the other programs get chopped. Teams like OK State are reporting huge deficits in support of football, and many of the football programs require huge subsidies. And sure UCF had revenues that were less than half of any team in the SEC, but that didn't keep them from being a Top 10 team.

Avarice and success do not necessarily walk hand in hand.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

Granted that the bottom of the old Big East was pretty weak (Seton Hall,
Providence, etc.) the middle and top of that conference were, over the last
half dozen years or so, arguably stronger than the middle and top of any
other conference.

The Big East had nine teams in the 2011 NCAA tournament, and after the
first round games, they still had nine teams in the tournament. I believe
that 9 -0 mark in first round games must surely be a record for any
conference.

The conference went 7 - 1 and 5 - 3 in first round games in 2012 and 2013,
respectively.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I know we tend to that think everything is set in stone and that everything remains the same in WCBB, but there is actually a huge amount of fluctuation. Next year Louisville and Rutgers depart and the AAC grows to 11 teams. Now if I asked how many of next year's teams have been in the NCAA tourney during the last four years, I'm sure half of the BY would say 1, UConn. The rest might remember USF's appearance last year and say 2.

But the answer is 7, and some have been multiple times. The list includes UConn, USF, Temple, Tulsa, Tulane, UCF, and Houston (26-6 in 2010-11). Of the other four teams, East Carolina is 21-5 this year and SMU has shown some promise with a 16-10 record. Sure, most of the teams got in from the A-10 or CUSA, but they got in.

So yeah, there is certainly some room for both moaners and a cheering squad in the audience of American basketball games. And damn Navy's football-only status, because they would have made it 8 0f 12.

 

[David 76]

We need to get some OOC games embedded in our Conference schedule. We haven't played anyone great in months and next year it gets much worse. We can't have USF be the best team we play from January until March.

 

[Fightin Choke]

There are 11 teams in the AAC next season, so does that mean there will be 20 conference games? If so, that leaves precious few OOC games. Teams usually schedule cupcakes because those teams will not demand a home-and-home; they will accept a game with a much better team just for the paycheck, allowing the home team to pocket the lion's share of the revenue. Teams from power conferences require home-and-homes, which reduces revenue for the big teams. So what will happen next season if the conference schedule requires 20 games? That leaves 9 or 10 games to be split among strong OOC teams, revenue-boosting cupcakes, and early season (exempt?) tournaments. Or am I missing something?

 

[DobbsRover2]

UConn almost certainly goes back to having one or two OOC games January or February as they always did in the past up until this year's transition period, so probably no reason for fans to freak out about getting no competition in the second half.

UConn's already getting the big OOC contests set up for the next few years, so not many worries for the Huskies who have a lot of clout and connections there. The media wants them on the tube, and a lot of teams want to grab some of the shared spotlight.

The situation for the other AAC teams is much different, but again I can't see why there should be any big worries. From what I understand from the BY posters, most of these teams are supposedly cupcakes that the P5 teams may want to schedule, right? Easy win over Houston or Tulsa, so load them on the schedule I guess. As the AAC teams start to develop into more powerful teams, they will get to develop more choices, and I'm guessing that playing the MTSU, Marist, Green Bay tougher types of teams that the P5 teams want to avoid will help in the AAC development while many of the P5 teams continue to slide into oblivion.

The trends are disturbing about the P5 OOC scheduling as more and more teams are scheduling all home games and have really abysmal OOC SOS. I'm not sure what can be done to reverse the trend other than instituting some rating and ranking rules that discourage the practice. But again, the charlatan P5 teams will end up suffering for these actions because if you're 20-10 overall but 6-10 in conference, you're just NIT bait and not really fooling anyone. Plus your fans get grumpy because they have 16 burnt marshmallows to ingest before watching their team slide into mediocrity when the action is heating up.