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Realignment and expansion on hold, for now (WVSports.com)

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FDNY99 said:
I can see the B1G/Jim Delany end game of OU, Texas, ND and UNC or UVA (I say UNC to help his alma mater) to get to 20. That leaves the SEC to scoop up schools like NC st and Va Tech. FSU and Clemson will have trouble getting UF and USC east to say yes..especially Clemson. If you glom together the ACC and B12 left overs and add UConn, Cincy and Houston to it it is a good football conference that would be a very good competitive basketball conference as well. I came up with the following group of schools: BC, UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UVA, Va Tech, Duke, NC State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, FSU, Miami, Kansas, K State, Ok State, Louisville, Cincy, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech and Houston. Take out 4 of those schools if the SEC wants to go to 20 (I'm not sure they really need to do that...and if they do schools like Clemson and FSU are non-starters due to UF and USC east).
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or the sec goes to 20, the big goes to 20, the pac goes to 16 and the rest of the country folds football. its equally as plausible.
 
djct1999 said:
or the sec goes to 20, the big goes to 20, the pac goes to 16 and the rest of the country folds football. its equally as plausible.
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There needs to be 4 football conferences based on the current playoff alignment. Plus with just 46 'top tier' conference slots, some schools with significant political weight are going to get snubbed and will raise holy heck in DC and elsewhere. Having 64 to 80 top tier members reduces that litigation risk.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
There needs to be 4 football conferences based on the current playoff alignment. Plus with just 46 'top tier' conference slots, some schools with significant political weight are going to get snubbed and will raise holy heck in DC and elsewhere. Having 64 to 80 top tier members reduces that litigation risk.
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I agree. Right now the P5 has become the P2.5 with the B1G and SEC being 2 and the Pac-12 being 0.5. I think we need one more round of musical chairs to allow the P2.5 to expand and the remaining teams to form the 4th football conference. The B1G and SEC will still be ahead of the rest, but the Pac-12 and 'Misfit Toys' conferences would be ahead of everyone else.
 
BlueHen said:
I agree. Right now the P5 has become the P2.5 with the B1G and SEC being 2 and the Pac-12 being 0.5. I think we need one more round of musical chairs to allow the P2.5 to expand and the remaining teams to form the 4th football conference. The B1G and SEC will still be ahead of the rest, but the Pac-12 and 'Misfit Toys' conferences would be ahead of everyone else.
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It's the misfit toys conference that UConn has a really good shot at being in.
 
FDNY99 said:
It's the misfit toys conference that UConn has a really good shot at being in.
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It would still be much better than the AAC and could actually be pretty good. I don't think that there are enough spots in the B1G, SEC and Pac-12 to accommodate all of the good schools in the ACC and Big 12. Schools like Florida St, Clemson, Duke, Oklahoma St, West Virginia, Miami, and Kansas St could easily end up in that conference.
 
The SEC wants Duke and North Carolina. You can add Oklahoma to the list now, probably.

If the SEC succeeds in adding UNC, we'd probably be a lock for the Big Ten. As someone mentioned, UMD alumni do actually fear UConn.
 
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dwalks93 said:
Wow, this is the end of the P5. It is now the P2 with the only conference that even has an outside chance to compete in the future being the PAC. The conferences without networks (ACC/Big12) just got moved to second tier.

One has to think that the BIG and SEC will eventually want a presence in NC and Virginia. Those are populous states which can support network sales. In addition. based on population, football recruiting, and now a ban on satellite camps, the BIG has to desire a Florida presence. It is no longer whether the BIG/SEC can lure ACC/Big12 schools but only how long until they do.

The irony is with this new BIG deal a school like Illinois or Rutgers is now bringing in money like a Notre Dame or UT. Kinda makes you wonder whether ND will realize they cannot fight on alone and will finally surrenders at Appomattox Courthouse. Moreover, Texas has to realize even they cannot outperform this new BIG contract.

Gotta agree with Fishy that the competition for the BIG just got a lot stiffer. But the good news is there will be ACC/Big12 defections and UConn is positioned to fill those vacancies. Is it the dream scenario? No, but it is not hard to envision a new ACC which looks a lot like the old BE and earns about $25-30 million a program. If we were in a conference with Cuse, BC, Pitt, WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati the world would look a lot brighter even if we were in the second tier of sports revenue (currently we are in the nonexistent third tier with a bunch of teams who I can barely name their mascots.)

Now comes the fun part. Every team in the ACC has to know the writing is on the wall. Time to drop the knife, chainsaw, and axe in the middle of the ACC ring and see who fights their way out to the SEC/BIG. In a Mexican standoff first man to pull the trigger wins...who from the ACC/Big12 pulls the trigger first?
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I know that it is conventional wisdom that every school would do all it could to join the Big Ten money trough.

Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, et al already made more than ND in TV money prior to the new Big Ten deal. ND knew that when it decided to go to the ACC in 2012.

ND makes about $22-23 million from NBC (it is so rumored, no FOIA since ND is private) and $3-4 million from the ACC/ESPN deal. So, that is about $25-27 million/year from TV until 2025.

So, the Big Ten schools will make somewhere between $14-19 million a year more in TV money than ND after the new Big Ten deal kicks in.

If ND were so concerned about increasing athletic revenues to the point of re-considering independence as a panic move, it could be adding way more than 3,000-4,000 extra seats to ND Stadium with that $400 million dollar expansion to the stadium that it is currently doing.

Instead, mostly all of that money is going into adding academic and student facilities grafted on to the stadium.

If extra athletic revenues were that crucial, ND could have used that $400 million to add 25,000 seats to the stadium to take the seating capacity up to 106,000 or so.

I am pretty sure that they could have sold those extra 25,000 seats (they have a huge waiting list right now) and made quite a lot more money at $85.00/seat per game x 6 home games per year. That is $12,750,000 per year more right there, not counting concessions, extra bookstore purchases, personal seat licenses, etc...

But....it didn't. It had the perfect opportunity to add more football revenues, but declined to do so. It is investing a ton of money in the stadium development but declined to add a lot of seats when it could have easily done so to generate more football cash.

The Project // Campus Crossroads Project // University of Notre Dame

I am not saying that ND would not love to be making $40 million or so a year in TV money. Sure, it would. What I am saying is that I don't think that anyone at ND is in a panic mode over the Big Ten deal and seriously considering the jettisoning of football independence any time soon.

(Now, watch ND announce its move to the Big Ten after I write this, lol)...
 
B-12 + ACC will have to battle it out. 1 conference will get picked apart. B1G wants ND + Texas. Get them , and they can / will add N.Carolina + Virginia. Last 2 slots are up for grabs, many factors and politics will decide. SEC will take a few more teams. Left over B-12 + ACC will merge. Not a good situation for UC.
 
I am not saying that ND would not love to be making $40 million or so a year in TV money. Sure, it would. What I am saying is that I don't think that anyone at ND is in a panic mode over the Big Ten deal and seriously considering the jettisoning of football independence any time soon.

(Now, watch ND announce its move to the Big Ten after I write this, lol)...[/QUOTE]


I won't pretend to be a ND expert but it seems ND's independence is contingent on 2 factors:
1. A competitive conference to put their non-football sports in
2. The opportunity to compete for the Playoff and National Championship in Football

If the BIG/SEC pick off enough ACC/Big12 power football schools there may be a complete restructuring of the playoff system. Imagine a BIG and SEC conference which includes FSU, GT, UNC, UVA, VT, UT, Clemson and OU. Factor in the PAC grabbing some of the other Big12 schools and the remaining ACC teams may not have a path to the playoff.

Would ND stay in the ACC if there was not a path to the playoff? Using the above super conferences I could see the 2nd place team in the BIG or SEC bumping out an undefeated ACC champion.

Expansion has always been about money and control. If the BIG/SEC/PAC gain more control you can bet their teams will receive even more favorable treatment. Hard to imagine ND getting special consideration under this new world order.

ND may have to choose between being one of the big boys or being excluded from the club. Money may not be the primary motivator for ND but retaining access to a championship would have to be a major concern.
 
dwalks93 said:
I am not saying that ND would not love to be making $40 million or so a year in TV money. Sure, it would. What I am saying is that I don't think that anyone at ND is in a panic mode over the Big Ten deal and seriously considering the jettisoning of football independence any time soon.

(Now, watch ND announce its move to the Big Ten after I write this, lol)...
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I won't pretend to be a ND expert but it seems ND's independence is contingent on 2 factors:
1. A competitive conference to put their non-football sports in
2. The opportunity to compete for the Playoff and National Championship in Football

If the BIG/SEC pick off enough ACC/Big12 power football schools there may be a complete restructuring of the playoff system. Imagine a BIG and SEC conference which includes FSU, GT, UNC, UVA, VT, UT, Clemson and OU. Factor in the PAC grabbing some of the other Big12 schools and the remaining ACC teams may not have a path to the playoff.

Would ND stay in the ACC if there was not a path to the playoff? Using the above super conferences I could see the 2nd place team in the BIG or SEC bumping out an undefeated ACC champion.

Expansion has always been about money and control. If the BIG/SEC/PAC gain more control you can bet their teams will receive even more favorable treatment. Hard to imagine ND getting special consideration under this new world order.

ND may have to choose between being one of the big boys or being excluded from the club. Money may not be the primary motivator for ND but retaining access to a championship would have to be a major concern.[/QUOTE]



Oh, it absolutely is. Look, I am realist.

I understand that the money plus playoff access being eliminated structurally for ND will drive it unwillingly to the Big Ten.

I am just not convinced that Doomsday Scenario is set in stone. Again, that may just be due to my huge anti-Big Ten attitude as a fifty plus year ND fan. We shall see.
 
huskymedic said:
GeorgeSchroeder11:25am via TweetDeck
With Kirk Schulz’s departure for Washington State, Bowlsby says Oklahoma’s David Boren will move up to chair Big 12’s Board of Directors.

BDavisAAS 11:27am via TweetDeck
So the biggest advocate of Big 12 expansion is now the league's biggest voice.
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Why does this picture come to mind?

nuke.png
 
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It still drives me crazy that schools like Purdue and Northwestern and Rutgers get to make gobs of money while accomplishing a whole lot of nothing. I can't see how when all this settles in 10 plus years that those schools are still invited to the table. I guess Rutgers and Northwestern might because of cable boxes but I'd imagine other schools in the ACC or Big 12 might draw more dollars next tv go round and force some lower performing schools out.

That all bring said, UCONN will be left out no matter what I've finally come to accept. I'll be glad to mix back in with the leftovers though. It's still an upgrade over our current ordeal.
 
All you need to know about this insanity is that Rutgers, a school that has won absolutely nothing of any merit in any sport and whose name generally inspires laughter, will soon be making double what Notre Dame and Florida State make.
 
Fishy said:
All you need to know about this insanity is that Rutgers, a school that has won absolutely nothing of any merit in any sport and whose name generally inspires laughter, will soon be making double what Notre Dame and Florida State make.
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Which is why the ACC is operating on borrowed time. You think UNC and FSU are going to just sit around letting Rutgers cash those kind of checks?
 
HartbeatHusky said:
Which is why the ACC is operating on borrowed time. You think UNC and FSU are going to just sit around letting Rutgers cash those kind of checks?
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They could care less about Rutgers cashing those checks. They've demonstrated their futility. It's schools like OSU. Michigan & Michigan St that they care about. Those are the schools they are trying to keep up with
 
HartbeatHusky said:
Which is why the ACC is operating on borrowed time. You think UNC and FSU are going to just sit around letting Rutgers cash those kind of checks?
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What choice do they have?

Maybe North Carolina can move, but what's FSU going to do? Stamp their feet?
 
I'm not buying Terry's argument at all. $15m is a lot of money for a school. Don't look at the billion dollar budgets. Look at the operating budgets. The rest of the money is not fungible. When people hear about a $3m or $4m shortfall, you start seeing administrators banging their heads against tables.

A school like Virginia, for instance, thinks $15m a year is a very big deal.

Also, the B12 ended expansion right when the B1G numbers came out. They are anticipating a shakeup, and hoping it's not the B12 that will quake.
 
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We need to focus on what we can control, even if we were added it would take a couple years transition anyways where we would have to keep playing in the AAC for the time being. Let's go and run the table in the AAC for the next 2-3 years and let the chips fall where they may.
 
Also I try to look at it this way: life is cyclic, we've been held down for so long (CT college/pro sports) it's only a matter of time until we catch a break. Glass half full.
 
Until someone proves otherwise, I am convinced that the B1G and SEC are sitting tight. They won. It is like being a partner at Goldman Sachs before it went public. Do you think Goldman partners would sit around giving two spits what some MD at Citibank did, or worrying about who they should recruit? They were freaking Goldman Sachs. The B1G and SEC are the college athletics equivalent of Goldman Sachs in the 90's.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Until someone proves otherwise, I am convinced that the B1G and SEC are sitting tight. They won. It is like being a partner at Goldman Sachs before it went public. Do you think Goldman partners would sit around giving two spits what some MD at Citibank did, or worrying about who they should recruit? They were freaking Goldman Sachs. The B1G and SEC are the college athletics equivalent of Goldman Sachs in the 90's.
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Except Goldman Sachs didn't stop trying to make money in the 90s, which is to say that if other opportunities become available (UNC, UVA or ND for instance) that will add to their portfolio, they aren't gonna let them slip through their fingers.
 
NYUConn said:
Except Goldman Sachs didn't stop trying to make money in the 90s, which is to say that if other opportunities become available (UNC, UVA or ND for instance) that will add to their portfolio, they aren't gonna let them slip through their fingers.
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If the B1G were Goldman Sachs, they would bring in UNC, UVA and ND, kick out Northwestern, then assassinate Mike Slive.
 
upstater said:
If the B1G were Goldman Sachs, they would bring in UNC, UVA and ND, kick out Northwestern, then assassinate Mike Slive.
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If the B1G was devoted to athletics only like the XII, SEC, and ACC (sorry ACC, after adding Louisville, its clear how important academics are to that conference) then yes. But, academic are very important to the B1G and no way would they ever consider kicking out a founding member that is a top 10 university in the US that generates over $500 million in research grants annually (2013).
 
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Mr. Conehead said:
If the B1G was devoted to athletics only like the XII, SEC, and ACC (sorry ACC, after adding Louisville, its clear how important academics are to that conference) then yes. But, academic are very important to the B1G and no way would they ever consider kicking out a founding member that is a top 10 university in the US that generates over $500 million in research grants annually (2013).
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Not to mention is their sole outpost in the Chicago metro area.
 
pj said:
Not to mention is their sole outpost in the Chicago metro area.
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I mean to be fair there are two other B1G schools 2 hours from Chicago and 2 others within a 4 hour drive.

Also, Chicago is hardly a Northwestern town as it is.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
If the B1G was devoted to athletics only like the XII, SEC, and ACC (sorry ACC, after adding Louisville, its clear how important academics are to that conference) then yes. But, academic are very important to the B1G and no way would they ever consider kicking out a founding member that is a top 10 university in the US that generates over $500 million in research grants annually (2013).
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How much of that 500m is shared with other B1G schools. That's 10x what they will get with the new TV deal.
 
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