Realignment and expansion on hold, for now (WVSports.com)

[nelsonmuntz]

Gee making those comments is really, really bad. We can think whatever we want about the various parties motivations, but the only part that impacts us is whether the Big 12 adds teams or not. If the answer is "no", then the door is closed at all the P5 for about 8-9 years, and UConn needs to take a hard look at how it is funding its athletic program.

 

[UConnJim]

Gee making those comments is really, really bad. We can think whatever we want about the various parties motivations, but the only part that impacts us is whether the Big 12 adds teams or not. If the answer is "no", then the door is closed at all the P5 for about 8-9 years, and UConn needs to take a hard look at how it is funding its athletic program.

Disagree. Big 12 won't survive without expansion. And, they probably need a conference network to survive as the money differentials between conferences will increase. If the Big 12 doesn't expand and get a conference network, I would think Some of the valuable schools will start plotting their exit strategies.

If the Big 12 doesn't expand this year, the next announced moves will be in 3 to 5 years as as schools give their conferences notice. We can wait if needed.

Finally, what is Gee supposed to say? "Yes, we are going to expand" even though the conference hasn't made a decision yet? There are only two schools that matter when it comes to Big 12 expansion, Texas and Oklahoma. The other schools are hoping and praying that they will be OK when the dust settles.

 

[UC1995]

Gee making those comments is really, really bad. We can think whatever we want about the various parties motivations, but the only part that impacts us is whether the Big 12 adds teams or not. If the answer is "no", then the door is closed at all the P5 for about 8-9 years, and UConn needs to take a hard look at how it is funding its athletic program.

One comment and your on the edge of the cliff again Nelson. And where did 8-9 years come from? We know dropping football is not an option back down to D2 since that will permanently move us from any consideration for the BIG or what is left of ACC or Big 12 if they get picked apart. Big East will not take us as a basketball only. I need to know what you expect UConn to do if this is the case? I get your passion for Uconn Hoops, but I think you are too quick to pull the plug on our chances when everything we hear is from backyard hill billy's and one president who is trying to keep everything quiet right now.

It's too the BIG and Big 12 advantage to say nothing is going to happen if the ACC is going to get picked apart in the future.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

One comment and your on the edge of the cliff again Nelson. And where did 8-9 years come from? We know dropping football is not an option back down to D2 since that will permanently move us from any consideration for the BIG or what is left of ACC or Big 12 if they get picked apart. Big East will not take us as a basketball only. I need to know what you expect UConn to do if this is the case? I get your passion for Uconn Hoops, but I think you are too quick to pull the plug on our chances when everything we hear is from backyard hill billy's and one president who is trying to keep everything quiet right now.

It's too the BIG and Big 12 advantage to say nothing is going to happen if the ACC is going to get picked apart in the future.

The athletic department has about a $20 to $30 million a year hole. Neither UConn nor the state is interested in funding that for the next 8 years, The ONLY evidence we have that something may change on the conference or revenue front is that Herbst continues to invest in the athletic program because that investment doesn't make a lot of sense right now on the surface of it, and with state funding getting cut, I do not see how this funding is viable long term.

 

[jostar1]

I hope that you're being facetious. If the B-XII dies, then UCONN has drawn the short straw yet again. The remaining P-4 would back fill with XII carcass remains & the Huskies would be relegated to CR purgatory once again.

If the Big 12 isn't expanding, then we are doomed for years. I don't think we can survive it. Let them die and let some other schools suffer with us. I'm bitter.

As BlueHen said, some of those schools might join the AAC.

 

[Adios]

The athletic department has about a $20 to $30 million a year hole. Neither UConn nor the state is interested in funding that for the next 8 years, The ONLY evidence we have that something may change on the conference or revenue front is that Herbst continues to invest in the athletic program because that investment doesn't make a lot of sense right now on the surface of it, and with state funding getting cut, I do not see how this funding is viable long term.

You know the NBA is adding ads to their jerseys? You're a little behind. As always.

 

[UConnJim]

The athletic department has about a $20 to $30 million a year hole. Neither UConn nor the state is interested in funding that for the next 8 years, The ONLY evidence we have that something may change on the conference or revenue front is that Herbst continues to invest in the athletic program because that investment doesn't make a lot of sense right now on the surface of it, and with state funding getting cut, I do not see how this funding is viable long term.

I hate when Nelson throws out #s with no real sources that are accurate. In the non-key tweets thread, I layed out the AD financial numbers. Again, about $9 million of the "athletic subsidy" is for student activities and intramurals. This money does not go to intercollegiate sports and it would exist no matter what conference UConn was involved in. You CAN'T count this $9 million as subsidizing UConn athletics. UConn is one of the few schools, if any, that includes student activities and intramurals in the AD budget which is one of the reasons UConn show up on "lists" of high subsidies.

Don't get me wrong, UConn does subsidize athletics to the tune of $12 to $15 million per year which is a far cry from Nelson's $20 to $30 million figure. In fact, UConn football, and men's and women's basketball make money. I guess if you amortized the football infrastructure costs (stadium and on campus facilities), UConn would break even or lose money on football, but the facilities upgrades are a sunk cost and don't impact current cash flow at all. By the way, UConn doesn't own the Rent, so they wouldn't be amortizing the cost anyway. Men's hockey could be close to break even with the move to HE. The problems for UConn as they are for every college AD budget is the non-revenue sports.

 

[FDNY99]

I hate when Nelson throws out #s with no real sources that are accurate. In the non-key tweets thread, I layed out the AD financial numbers. Again, about $9 million of the "athletic subsidy" is for student activities and intramurals. This money does not go to intercollegiate sports and it would exist no matter what conference UConn was involved in. You CAN'T count this $9 million as subsidizing UConn athletics. UConn is one of the few schools, if any, that includes student activities and intramurals in the AD budget which is one of the reasons UConn show up on "lists" of high subsidies.

Don't get me wrong, UConn does subsidize athletics to the tune of $12 to $15 million per year which is a far cry from Nelson's $20 to $30 million figure. In fact, UConn football, and men's and women's basketball make money. I guess if you amortized the football infrastructure costs (stadium and on campus facilities), UConn would break even or lose money on football, but the facilities upgrades are a sunk cost and don't impact current cash flow at all. By the way, UConn doesn't own the Rent, so they wouldn't be amortizing the cost anyway. Men's hockey could be close to break even with the move to HE. The problems for UConn as they are for every college AD budget is the non-revenue sports.

UConnJim nice job with this post. DOn't let nelson get to you...take him for what he is..The Boneyard's resident kook.

 

[whaler11]

I just don't get it. The way the Big 12 is set up up right now...it won't survive. Ten teams, small, demographically challenged footprint and it is tremendously top heavy. The ACC is seen to be less stable because, frankly, most of its schools have more value than most of the schools in the Big 12. Outside of Texas, Oklahoma and perhaps Kansas, no one is clamoring for Big 12 schools. VA, VT, UNC, NC St, Duke, Miami, Clemson, Louisville, G Tech and FSU are all more desirable properties than almost all of the Big 12's. I just don't see how the Big 12 can expect to survive without aggressively building value by expansion.

There isn't anyone they can recruit that can fix the problem.

The contracts are too huge to add teams, since they are already overpaid.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

The worst thing about CR is that we hang on the words of a Mountaineer.
UConn is such a superior university to be in this position.

(BTW, if we are not settled in the P-5 by election day, remember that when you are tempted to pull the lever for Blumenthal. His BS lawsuit against all those individuals associated with the ACC continues to be a factor in our predicament. Rightfully or wrongfully, we were denied ACC membership in 2011, at least in part, because of that damn lawsuit.)

Serious question to the entire BY...no one really believes this, right?

 

[tiger paw]

maybe big-12 expansion on hold because they can not come to an agreement on what teams to add. every potential school has strong + weak points. they want more time to let a clear scenario play out. UC biggest drawback is location + distance.

 

[hardcorehusky]

If the meetings are in May and we are in April, Gee is correct. I doubt the info is all in and hasn't been totally disseminated yet. Additionally, Boren would have spouted by now if this was true. He is too far out on the limb to wimper back. Put me in this is a smokescreen crowd for now.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

If the meetings are in May and we are in April, Gee is correct. I doubt the info is all in and hasn't been totally disseminated yet. Additionally, Boren would have spouted by now if this was true. He is too far out on the limb to wimper back. Put me in this is a smokescreen crowd for now.

This. Boren has spearheaded the expansion debate. He will have the last word whether it's positive or negative.

 

[huskymike]

Read an article, FSU is trying to keep in quiet but they already have attorneys working on the validity of the GOR, they're arguing is that it's not enforceable.

 

[TerryD]

Read an article, FSU is trying to keep in quiet but they already have attorneys working on the validity of the GOR, they're arguing is that it's not enforceable.

Are you sure that it wasn't an article rehashing the tweets from Bluevod? He is the only one out there (to my knowledge) saying that FSU's attorneys are looking at the GOR.

As an attorney, I have my doubts about all of his statement on the GOR, especially that any lawyer would tell a client that the GOR is "toast".

Time will tell, I guess, since he is predicting six schools currently bound by GOR's to announce their move to the Big Ten this summer.

 

[huskymike]

Are you sure that it wasn't an article rehashing the tweets from Bluevod? He is the only one out there (to my knowledge) saying that FSU's attorneys are looking at the GOR.

As an attorney, I have my doubts about all of his statement on the GOR, especially that any lawyer would tell a client that the GOR is "toast".

Time will tell, I guess, since he is predicting six schools currently bound by GOR's to announce their move to the Big Ten this summer.

It could have been, I don't remember specifics. If anything it's a conversation starter.

 

[IMind]

Serious question to the entire BY...no one really believes this, right?

Some... probably the exact same number of people also want to audit the fed...

 

[CL82]

The more I read the quotes below the more I think that they, albeit vaguely, confirm that the review of expansion continues and thus it "makes sense."

“I think we’re a very stable league,” Gee said. “And I think that we’d only speak about expansion if it makes sense.”

“We’ve done all the analytics of what adding several teams would mean and what it would look like going into subdivisions,” Gee added.​

 

[junglehusky]

If the B12 stays pat this summer, I expect the realignment talk to resurface in about a year. We thought the door was slammed shut, then it cracked open. For Boren to bust it wide open and let the Huskies and Bearcats through, he might have to back up a few feet and throw OU's and a couple other's school into the door to dislodge the Longhorns and Frogs that are holding the door closed. In the long run he might succeed, he might fail.

(This is my way of hedging like a WV tweeter... I'm not saying it's happening, but I'm also not saying it isn't being discussed).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

With the B1G TV contract, the Big 12 is basically toast no matter what it does. Why would Oklahoma and Texas bother to save the Big 12 if either could move to the B1G? I don't know if the B1G would put up with Texas' crap, but for $50MM a year in rights fees, I suspect Texas will be on its best behavior.

I bet this is why the Big 12 momentum stopped. The league is dead and everyone knows it.

 

[Fishy]

With the B1G TV contract, the Big 12 is basically toast no matter what it does. Why would Oklahoma and Texas bother to save the Big 12 if either could move to the B1G? I don't know if the B1G would put up with Texas' crap, but for $50MM a year in rights fees, I suspect Texas will be on its best behavior.

Why would the Big Ten even want Oklahoma at this point?

With that kind of money, they can just hunt bigger states - Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia.

Oklahoma is small potatoes.

 

[djct1999]

Why would the Big Ten even want Oklahoma at this point?

With that kind of money, they can just hunt bigger states - Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia.

Oklahoma is small potatoes.

Exactly right. It's all about markets now for the Big10. They have already proven the quality of programs is meaningless.

 

[djct1999]

With the B1G TV contract, the Big 12 is basically toast no matter what it does. Why would Oklahoma and Texas bother to save the Big 12 if either could move to the B1G? I don't know if the B1G would put up with Texas' crap, but for $50MM a year in rights fees, I suspect Texas will be on its best behavior.

I bet this is why the Big 12 momentum stopped. The league is dead and everyone knows it.

The acc is not far behind.

 

[Fishy]

It may mean nothing for the Big 12 or the ACC.

With revenue that high, the impetus to expand further might not exist - at some point, the law of big numbers comes into play and they simply might not be able to generate enough additional revenue to warrant expanding.

I think it likely pops a cap into any remaining UConn-Big Ten fantasies - it's just not in the cards. There's nothing we can do in a state of 3,000,000 people to move the needle enough - basic math.

The only slim threads we can cling to is that the huge numbers, 1) causes the Big 12 to reverse the non-expansion course they seem to be on and that our market is large enough for them to ignore either Cincy or BYU; or 2) causes the SEC to try to poach from the ACC when their contract is up in 2020-whatever.

In any event, whoever's left in the American after the next shuffle - if there is a shuffle - is in the American for the foreseeable future.

 

[JMick]

It may mean nothing for the Big 12 or the ACC.

With revenue that high, the impetus to expand further might not exist - at some point, the law of big numbers comes into play and they simply might not be able to generate enough additional revenue to warrant expanding.

I think it likely pops a cap into any remaining UConn-Big Ten fantasies - it's just not in the cards. There's nothing we can do in a state of 3,000,000 people to move the needle enough - basic math.

The only slim threads we can cling to is that the huge numbers, 1) causes the Big 12 to reverse the non-expansion course they seem to be on and that our market is large enough for them to ignore either Cincy or BYU; or 2) causes the SEC to try to poach from the ACC when their contract is up in 2020-whatever.

In any event, whoever's left in the American after the next shuffle - if there is a shuffle - is in the American for the foreseeable future.

The conferences blowing up again would be the best thing for us. Big XII dissolves, FSU and another couple teams leave the ACC, and we finally end up where we belong, in the ACC, or we take the likes of Syracuse, Louisville, WVU and go make our own conference/add to the American for a Big East. v2 Electric Boogaloo

 

[huskypantz]

As a sane human being, I have my doubts about all of his statement on the GOR,

FIFY

 

[whaler11]

Why would the Big Ten even want Oklahoma at this point?

With that kind of money, they can just hunt bigger states - Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia.

Oklahoma is small potatoes.

Texas and North Carolina. That's been the end game since day 1.

Recruting plus can carry their weight.

 

[dwalks93]

Wow, this is the end of the P5. It is now the P2 with the only conference that even has an outside chance to compete in the future being the PAC. The conferences without networks (ACC/Big12) just got moved to second tier.

One has to think that the BIG and SEC will eventually want a presence in NC and Virginia. Those are populous states which can support network sales. In addition. based on population, football recruiting, and now a ban on satellite camps, the BIG has to desire a Florida presence. It is no longer whether the BIG/SEC can lure ACC/Big12 schools but only how long until they do.

The irony is with this new BIG deal a school like Illinois or Rutgers is now bringing in money like a Notre Dame or UT. Kinda makes you wonder whether ND will realize they cannot fight on alone and will finally surrenders at Appomattox Courthouse. Moreover, Texas has to realize even they cannot outperform this new BIG contract.

Gotta agree with Fishy that the competition for the BIG just got a lot stiffer. But the good news is there will be ACC/Big12 defections and UConn is positioned to fill those vacancies. Is it the dream scenario? No, but it is not hard to envision a new ACC which looks a lot like the old BE and earns about $25-30 million a program. If we were in a conference with Cuse, BC, Pitt, WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati the world would look a lot brighter even if we were in the second tier of sports revenue (currently we are in the nonexistent third tier with a bunch of teams who I can barely name their mascots.)

Now comes the fun part. Every team in the ACC has to know the writing is on the wall. Time to drop the knife, chainsaw, and axe in the middle of the ACC ring and see who fights their way out to the SEC/BIG. In a Mexican standoff first man to pull the trigger wins...who from the ACC/Big12 pulls the trigger first?

 

[Ldandy]

I think the design of The B1G's new contract tells the tale. Six years. Just enough time for the current 14 members to make a bushel of dough, and just long enough for the schools currently situated in The ACC and Big 12 to fully comprehend the revenue disparity. If you are North Carolina and you watch Purdue or Northwestern pocket 100+ million dollars more than you did over that time period, it has got to make you question why you are holding on to the place you currently call home.

This type of money is a game changer. Good, bad, or indifferent, The ACC and Big 12 as they are currently constituted will most likely be markedly different 10 years from now. That's assuming they exist at all. This is likely the real dawning of the super conferences. It may be called The P5, but very soon it will be The P2 and a bunch of schools they agree to play nice with. JMO, but this sucks for college sports. I prefer smaller regional conferences with real geographic rivalries and accessible away games. That said this was never about what fans desire, or what's best for student athletes. This is simply about maximizing every cent that you an out of your TV deal. I hope that when The B1G finally does whatever it is they have been setting up to do, that UCONN finds a better home in the aftermath. Your athletic dept deserves a better situation than The AAC. You guys have earned that the right way, with results on the field.

 

[FDNY99]

Wow, this is the end of the P5. It is now the P2 with the only conference that even has an outside chance to compete in the future being the PAC. The conferences without networks (ACC/Big12) just got moved to second tier.

One has to think that the BIG and SEC will eventually want a presence in NC and Virginia. Those are populous states which can support network sales. In addition. based on population, football recruiting, and now a ban on satellite camps, the BIG has to desire a Florida presence. It is no longer whether the BIG/SEC can lure ACC/Big12 schools but only how long until they do.

The irony is with this new BIG deal a school like Illinois or Rutgers is now bringing in money like a Notre Dame or UT. Kinda makes you wonder whether ND will realize they cannot fight on alone and will finally surrenders at Appomattox Courthouse. Moreover, Texas has to realize even they cannot outperform this new BIG contract.

Gotta agree with Fishy that the competition for the BIG just got a lot stiffer. But the good news is there will be ACC/Big12 defections and UConn is positioned to fill those vacancies. Is it the dream scenario? No, but it is not hard to envision a new ACC which looks a lot like the old BE and earns about $25-30 million a program. If we were in a conference with Cuse, BC, Pitt, WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati the world would look a lot brighter even if we were in the second tier of sports revenue (currently we are in the nonexistent third tier with a bunch of teams who I can barely name their mascots.)

Now comes the fun part. Every team in the ACC has to know the writing is on the wall. Time to drop the knife, chainsaw, and axe in the middle of the ACC ring and see who fights their way out to the SEC/BIG. In a Mexican standoff first man to pull the trigger wins...who from the ACC/Big12 pulls the trigger first?

I can see the B1G/Jim Delany end game of OU, Texas, ND and UNC or UVA (I say UNC to help his alma mater) to get to 20. That leaves the SEC to scoop up schools like NC st and Va Tech. FSU and Clemson will have trouble getting UF and USC east to say yes..especially Clemson. If you glom together the ACC and B12 left overs and add UConn, Cincy and Houston to it it is a good football conference that would be a very good competitive basketball conference as well. I came up with the following group of schools: BC, UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UVA, Va Tech, Duke, NC State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, FSU, Miami, Kansas, K State, Ok State, Louisville, Cincy, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech and Houston. Take out 4 of those schools if the SEC wants to go to 20 (I'm not sure they really need to do that...and if they do schools like Clemson and FSU are non-starters due to UF and USC east).