Race for 1 Seed (2/5) | Page 16 | The Boneyard
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Race for 1 Seed (2/5)

2 in the East w/Duke vs 1 in the South w/Florida is an interesting argument. Let's not forget Florida played Duke down to the wire in Cameron this year.

W/Duke - Scheyer hasn't seen us, isn't as a good a coach as Golden. Gets us a favorable geo.

W/Florida - we're not surprising Golden at this point, would be a revenge game, and it's out in Houston/no man's land.
I agree it’s a coin flip regarding which is a better match up. I just don’t think there’s any way we’re in the East unless we go 0-2 in next 2. And even then, probably still the best 2 seed. Never know.
 
Graham Doeren Bracketology
@GrahamDoeren


3-loss UConn's five most valuable WAB wins: Florida (N), Illinois (N), at Kansas, at Villanova, BYU (N)
6-loss Florida's: at Vandy, at Texas A&M, at UGA, at Texas, at Oklahoma
Much stronger top wins and half as many losses for UConn.

This pretty much sums it up. Again, if you want to give Florida the 1 seed go ahead, they are a great team, but stop playing the games then.
The only path is Florida winning out and winning the SECT, which gives them another 3 Q1A wins and a Q1. Q1A at Kentucky (.72), Q1 n-Kentucky (.57), Q1A n-Tennessee (.73), (Q1A n-Alabama (.71) or Q1A n-Arkansas (.67)).
 
The only path is Florida winning out and winning the SECT, which gives them another 3 Q1A wins and a Q1. Q1A at Kentucky (.72), Q1 n-Kentucky (.57), Q1A n-Tennessee (.73), (Q1A n-Alabama (.71) or Q1A n-Arkansas (.67)).
@auror if Florida wins out, what would UConn's "magic number" be in your opinion to clinch the last 1 seed.
 
@auror if Florida wins out, what would UConn's "magic number" be in your opinion to clinch the last 1 seed.
A loss to anyone not named Villanova or St John’s would probably mean a #2 seed. In the same region. As Florida.

This really is a discussions about who is the #4 vs the #5 out of 68.
 
@auror if Florida wins out, what would UConn's "magic number" be in your opinion to clinch the last 1 seed.
Florida is nicely set up, as they are a superior team in a conference full of second rate Q1 teams. I'd expect them to win out. They have the one remaining game against Miss St at home, then @ UK.

They'll then get 3 games against tourney teams in the SECT - the 8/9, a 4 and then winner of the other side. That's looking kinda like a Vandy, UK then Bama. Meanwhile, we may only have a Hall to StJ. It'll be razor thin if we don't win out.
 
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I still don't get why so many are putting so much importance in what seed we end up with and which region we end up in.

Whether we are a one or a two, regardless of region, if we don't make it to the regional finals, we would have gotten knocked off by a team that wasn't as good as us. That will be entirely our fault, whether we lost as a one or a two, anywhere in the country.

If for example we make it to the regional finals as the last one seed, facing the top two seed, or the top two seed facing the last one seed, the only difference would be color of the uniforms we wear. Does anyone believe that the outcome of the game would depend on whether we are wearing blue or white?

Whatever happens from here on out will be entirely on us.
 
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Florida is nicely set up, as they are a superior team in a conference full of second rate Q1 teams. I'd expect them to win out. They have the one remaining game against Miss St at home, than @ UK.

They'll then get 3 games against tourney teams in the SECT - the 8/9, a 4 and then winner of the other side. That's looking kinda like a Vandy, UK then Bama. Meanwhile, we may only have a Hall to StJ. It'll be razor thin if we don't win out.
Per the graphic from the show, Florida has 1 more Quad 1 win than UConn, but took them 4 more games to do it.

Florida loses at Rupp, and 9 Q1s in 15 attempts versus 8 Q1s in 10 attempts means the committee doesn’t even need to worry about the tourney games with the head to head already there.
 
I still don't get why so many are putting so much importance in what seed we end up with and which region we end up in.

Whether we are a one or a two, regardless of region, if we don't make it to the regional finals, we would have gotten knocked off by a team that wasn't as good as us. That will be entirely our fault, whether we lost as a one or a two, anywhere in the country.

If for example we make it to the regional finals as the last one seed, facing the top two seed, or the top two seed facing the last one seed, the only difference would be color of the uniforms we wear. Does anyone believe that the outcome of the game would depend on whether we are wearing blue or white?

Whatever happens from here on out will be entirely on us.
One reason is that you can have a Iowa State, Houston, and/or Michigan State as a 3. Not an easy 16 game. I think the 4 seeds are noticeably weaker than the 3 seeds.
 
I still don't get why so many are putting so much importance in what seed we end up with and which region we end up in.

Whether we are a one or a two, regardless of region, if we don't make it to the regional finals, we would have gotten knocked off by a team that wasn't as good as us. That will be entirely our fault, whether we lost as a one or a two, anywhere in the country.

If for example we make it to the regional finals as the last one seed, facing the top two seed, or the top two seed facing the last one seed, the only difference would be color of the uniforms we wear. Does anyone believe that the outcome of the game would depend on whether we are wearing blue or white?

Whatever happens from here on out will be entirely on us.
Always nice to get a 1 for notoriety. Affords the presumed easiest path to the F4.

These tourneys are often about matchups. Also, I'd say we want to avoid UM, AZ and Duke as long as possible.
 
Where I believe we stand as of 3/1. Again, I am basing this of where we were a little over a week ago from the committee.

1. Duke
2. Michigan
3. Arizona
4. UConn

5. Florida
6. Houston
7. Nebraska
8. Michigan St.

9. Iowa St.
10. Illinois
11. Purdue
12. Gonzaga

13. Texas Tech
14. Kansas


Couple of note:

A. Michigan and Arizona could swap, but they are set as the 2nd and 3rd 1 seed.

Gets tough to rank the teams after Florida as Houston, Iowa St, Illinois, and Kansas have lost twice since the reveal, with Purdue and Gonzaga also losing.

They will try and avoid putting Nebraska/Michigan St/Purdue with Michigan. Same with Houston/Iowa St/Kansas with Arizona.
 
Florida is nicely set up, as they are a superior team in a conference full of second rate Q1 teams. I'd expect them to win out. They have the one remaining game against Miss St at home, then @ UK.

They'll then get 3 games against tourney teams in the SECT - the 8/9, a 4 and then winner of the other side. That's looking kinda like a Vandy, UK then Bama. Meanwhile, we may only have a Hall to StJ. It'll be razor thin if we don't win out.
Big question is how the Committee handles the seeding. Last year, the 1 seeds sounded like they were locked in before the conference tournaments. If they do that, I think you see UConn as the likely 1 unless they are upset by Marquette. If they want to hold out the last 1 seed to see how the tournaments go that's their call, but based on last year they looked at the entire season, and although I think Florida is a great team, the did not have any big Non-Conference wins and get beat head up by UConn.
 
Where I believe we stand as of 3/1. Again, I am basing this of where we were a little over a week ago from the committee.

1. Duke
2. Michigan
3. Arizona
4. UConn

5. Florida
6. Houston
7. Nebraska
8. Michigan St.

9. Iowa St.
10. Illinois
11. Purdue
12. Gonzaga

13. Texas Tech
14. Kansas


Couple of note:

A. Michigan and Arizona could swap, but they are set as the 2nd and 3rd 1 seed.

Gets tough to rank the teams after Florida as Houston, Iowa St, Illinois, and Kansas have lost twice since the reveal, with Purdue and Gonzaga also losing.

They will try and avoid putting Nebraska/Michigan St/Purdue with Michigan. Same with Houston/Iowa St/Kansas with Arizona.
In that scenario, being a 1 is huge cause you really want to avoid having to play Iowa State, Illinois, and Purdue as 3 seeds. Having to win those games and then play the 1 is not easy.
 
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Big question is how the Committee handles the seeding. Last year, the 1 seeds sounded like they were locked in before the conference tournaments. If they do that, I think you see UConn as the likely 1 unless they are upset by Marquette. If they want to hold out the last 1 seed to see how the tournaments go that's their call, but based on last year they looked at the entire season, and although I think Florida is a great team, the did not have any big Non-Conference wins and get beat head up by UConn.
The I would assume they do is this - they would have Florida/Uconn set for the same region, and have their hypothetical play out based on how each performs in their conference tourney. Uconn wins out, they are 1 in the south, Florida 2 in the south, Uconn trips up and they flip. That is my assumption.
 
Florida is nicely set up, as they are a superior team in a conference full of second rate Q1 teams. I'd expect them to win out. They have the one remaining game against Miss St at home, then @ UK.

They'll then get 3 games against tourney teams in the SECT - the 8/9, a 4 and then winner of the other side. That's looking kinda like a Vandy, UK then Bama. Meanwhile, we may only have a Hall to StJ. It'll be razor thin if we don't win out.
Didn't you think UConn was a safely a 1 seed as of last night? Not surprised you are flip flopping.

The people who are loving Florida as a 1 seed are in the "what have you done for me recently." The committee, at least according to the criteria, is not supposed to bring that into play.

UConn's WAB is 8.8 to Florida' 7.0.
Q1/Q2 record: UConn 17-2 v.s. Florida 16-6
UConn beat Florida on a neutral court.

IMO, UConn would have to lose to Marquette AND lose before the final for the BE tournament plus Florida would need to win out for them to pass us. 6 losses to 3 losses, and WE BEAT THEM ON A NEUTRAL COURT.
 
In that scenario, being a 1 is huge cause you really want to avoid having to play Iowa State, Illinois, and Purdue as 3 seeds. Having to win those games and then play the 1 is not easy.
The South according to this 1-14 would be Gonzaga.

The Huskies have historically liked seeing the bulldogs. Don’t know if they want to see some Red Raiders, hobbled or not.
 
Didn't you think UConn was a safely a 1 seed as of last night? Not surprised you are flip flopping.

The people who are loving Florida as a 1 seed are in the "what have you done for me recently." The committee, at least according to the criteria, is not supposed to bring that into play.

UConn's WAB is 8.8 to Florida' 7.0.
Q1/Q2 record: UConn 17-2 v.s. Florida 16-6
UConn beat Florida on a neutral court.

IMO, UConn would have to lose to Marquette AND lose before the final for the BE tournament plus Florida would need to win out for them to pass us. 6 losses to 3 losses, and WE BEAT THEM ON A NEUTRAL COURT.
I'm torn on whether Uconn gets to the final and loses, and Florida runs it, whether Uconn keeps it. Florida is going to have 4 wins against tourney teams, which would be to our 0, from here on out. That is material. I didn't play out their SECT run last night.

This is also presuming Creighton loses to Butler and PC jumps them, so we get the Hall in the Semis.
 
Didn't you think UConn was a safely a 1 seed as of last night? Not surprised you are flip flopping.

The people who are loving Florida as a 1 seed are in the "what have you done for me recently." The committee, at least according to the criteria, is not supposed to bring that into play.

UConn's WAB is 8.8 to Florida' 7.0.
Q1/Q2 record: UConn 17-2 v.s. Florida 16-6
UConn beat Florida on a neutral court.

IMO, UConn would have to lose to Marquette AND lose before the final for the BE tournament plus Florida would need to win out for them to pass us. 6 losses to 3 losses, and WE BEAT THEM ON A NEUTRAL COURT.
Pending Arizona/Duke/Michigan games, we are the 4th 1 and relegated to the South as the #4 1 seed.

We are supposed to get the hardest two seed, which ostensibly should be the 5th best team in our bracket.

Houston and Iowa St were 1-1 in the week. Even Gonzaga lost. Kansas lost, so we should leap to #4 and make it pretty clear though with 27-3 record I don't know how anyone could doubt we belong up there.
 
@auror if Florida wins out, what would UConn's "magic number" be in your opinion to clinch the last 1 seed.
How the committee might look at it (in a pairwise fashion):

Predictive edge - Florida **
Resume edge (tbd)
Head to head - UConn *
Top end wins - UConn **
Bad losses - Florida *

Comparison - 3-3 without the resume component.

UConn has the 3 best wins by WAB between the two (but at Vandy is essentially right behind them), even adding in the wins Florida could get in the SECT. If we discount Florida's potential game on Sunday because essentially all of the committee's scrubbing and discussions will be done before then, they can add about 2 WAB to their resume. They're at 7.4 now, so call it 9.5 WAB. Because of Florida's predictive metrics edge (around 5 rank lead in most) and lack of bad losses, UConn needs at least some edge in the resume category.

If UConn loses to Marquette, it would drop to 8.4 WAB, and then beating someone like Marquette or DePaul in 8/9 game gets you ~0.3, and Nova or Seton Hall on neutral gets you 0.4 or 0.5. Losing to St. John's in the final would be a 0.2 deficit (considered road) for a total of around 9.

So I don't think they can lose to Marquette and then not win the BET in this Florida wins out scenario. Beating Marquette is essential.

After that, assuming a Marquette win, that puts the WAB around 9.4, you're basically at the goal. So a win and a loss would mostly cancel out and you're basically where you need to be. Losing the first game gets you a pretty hefty -0.7 WAB and puts you below where you need to be.

I think beating Marquette and getting to the final would lock up the 1 seed. Beating Marquette and winning the first game gets you pretty safe, the only risk is Florida running the table and at that point it would be committee preference (do they value "hot" teams or double champions?).

So nominally the number is 3. 2 is risky but still could be fine. 1 would make me worried. 0 and I'm contacting Etsy witches.
 
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Where I believe we stand as of 3/1. Again, I am basing this of where we were a little over a week ago from the committee.

1. Duke
2. Michigan
3. Arizona
4. UConn

5. Florida
6. Houston
7. Nebraska
8. Michigan St.

9. Iowa St.
10. Illinois
11. Purdue
12. Gonzaga

13. Texas Tech
14. Kansas


Couple of note:

A. Michigan and Arizona could swap, but they are set as the 2nd and 3rd 1 seed.

Gets tough to rank the teams after Florida as Houston, Iowa St, Illinois, and Kansas have lost twice since the reveal, with Purdue and Gonzaga also losing.

They will try and avoid putting Nebraska/Michigan St/Purdue with Michigan. Same with Houston/Iowa St/Kansas with Arizona.
I have to imagine that Tech is going to be on the 3-line. Their top end wins beat most others.

And that's one of the reasons you want a 1-seed. The difference between the 3-line and the 4-line seems quite strong this year.
 
I have to imagine that Tech is going to be on the 3-line. Their top end wins beat most others.

And that's one of the reasons you want a 1-seed. The difference between the 3-line and the 4-line seems quite strong this year.
Wish I could love this post @tzznandrew. This is why I think it's huge to get on the 1 line.
 
One reason is that you can have a Iowa State, Houston, and/or Michigan State as a 3. Not an easy 16 game. I think the 4 seeds are noticeably weaker than the 3 seeds.
Why does it have to be easy?

Isn't the hardware valuable because getting it Isn't easy?

The last thing I want to think is that we were able to accomplish something because it wasn't hard.
 
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The I would assume they do is this - they would have Florida/Uconn set for the same region, and have their hypothetical play out based on how each performs in their conference tourney. Uconn wins out, they are 1 in the south, Florida 2 in the south, Uconn trips up and they flip. That is my assumption.
I understand if they do that, but then who cares about the Non-Conference. There has to be some consistency, and last year the Committee talked about the importance of Non-Conference games and teams like UConn scheduled accordingly. Not UConn's fault the Big East is not as good as the SEC (but the SEC is not that great this year), and they beat Florida. I just don't see how winning the conference tournament should matter in the end based on last year. Don't get me wrong, I see your point and you play who you play, but that would seem inconsistent with everything they said last year.
 

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