Race for 1 Seed (2/5) | Page 14 | The Boneyard

Race for 1 Seed (2/5)

Didn't you think UConn was a safely a 1 seed as of last night? Not surprised you are flip flopping.

The people who are loving Florida as a 1 seed are in the "what have you done for me recently." The committee, at least according to the criteria, is not supposed to bring that into play.

UConn's WAB is 8.8 to Florida' 7.0.
Q1/Q2 record: UConn 17-2 v.s. Florida 16-6
UConn beat Florida on a neutral court.

IMO, UConn would have to lose to Marquette AND lose before the final for the BE tournament plus Florida would need to win out for them to pass us. 6 losses to 3 losses, and WE BEAT THEM ON A NEUTRAL COURT.
I'm torn on whether Uconn gets to the final and loses, and Florida runs it, whether Uconn keeps it. Florida is going to have 4 wins against tourney teams, which would be to our 0, from here on out. That is material. I didn't play out their SECT run last night.

This is also presuming Creighton loses to Butler and PC jumps them, so we get the Hall in the Semis.
 
Didn't you think UConn was a safely a 1 seed as of last night? Not surprised you are flip flopping.

The people who are loving Florida as a 1 seed are in the "what have you done for me recently." The committee, at least according to the criteria, is not supposed to bring that into play.

UConn's WAB is 8.8 to Florida' 7.0.
Q1/Q2 record: UConn 17-2 v.s. Florida 16-6
UConn beat Florida on a neutral court.

IMO, UConn would have to lose to Marquette AND lose before the final for the BE tournament plus Florida would need to win out for them to pass us. 6 losses to 3 losses, and WE BEAT THEM ON A NEUTRAL COURT.
Pending Arizona/Duke/Michigan games, we are the 4th 1 and relegated to the South as the #4 1 seed.

We are supposed to get the hardest two seed, which ostensibly should be the 5th best team in our bracket.

Houston and Iowa St were 1-1 in the week. Even Gonzaga lost. Kansas lost, so we should leap to #4 and make it pretty clear though with 27-3 record I don't know how anyone could doubt we belong up there.
 
@auror if Florida wins out, what would UConn's "magic number" be in your opinion to clinch the last 1 seed.
How the committee might look at it (in a pairwise fashion):

Predictive edge - Florida **
Resume edge (tbd)
Head to head - UConn *
Top end wins - UConn **
Bad losses - Florida *

Comparison - 3-3 without the resume component.

UConn has the 3 best wins by WAB between the two (but at Vandy is essentially right behind them), even adding in the wins Florida could get in the SECT. If we discount Florida's potential game on Sunday because essentially all of the committee's scrubbing and discussions will be done before then, they can add about 2 WAB to their resume. They're at 7.4 now, so call it 9.5 WAB. Because of Florida's predictive metrics edge (around 5 rank lead in most) and lack of bad losses, UConn needs at least some edge in the resume category.

If UConn loses to Marquette, it would drop to 8.4 WAB, and then beating someone like Marquette or DePaul in 8/9 game gets you ~0.3, and Nova or Seton Hall on neutral gets you 0.4 or 0.5. Losing to St. John's in the final would be a 0.2 deficit (considered road) for a total of around 9.

So I don't think they can lose to Marquette and then not win the BET in this Florida wins out scenario. Beating Marquette is essential.

After that, assuming a Marquette win, that puts the WAB around 9.4, you're basically at the goal. So a win and a loss would mostly cancel out and you're basically where you need to be. Losing the first game gets you a pretty hefty -0.7 WAB and puts you below where you need to be.

I think beating Marquette and getting to the final would lock up the 1 seed. Beating Marquette and winning the first game gets you pretty safe, the only risk is Florida running the table and at that point it would be committee preference (do they value "hot" teams or double champions?).

So nominally the number is 3. 2 is risky but still could be fine. 1 would make me worried. 0 and I'm contacting Etsy witches.
 
I still don't get why so many are putting so much importance in what seed we end up with and which region we end up in.
It's fun to speculate about, and it's good for bragging rights and historical counting stats.
 
Where I believe we stand as of 3/1. Again, I am basing this of where we were a little over a week ago from the committee.

1. Duke
2. Michigan
3. Arizona
4. UConn

5. Florida
6. Houston
7. Nebraska
8. Michigan St.

9. Iowa St.
10. Illinois
11. Purdue
12. Gonzaga

13. Texas Tech
14. Kansas


Couple of note:

A. Michigan and Arizona could swap, but they are set as the 2nd and 3rd 1 seed.

Gets tough to rank the teams after Florida as Houston, Iowa St, Illinois, and Kansas have lost twice since the reveal, with Purdue and Gonzaga also losing.

They will try and avoid putting Nebraska/Michigan St/Purdue with Michigan. Same with Houston/Iowa St/Kansas with Arizona.
I have to imagine that Tech is going to be on the 3-line. Their top end wins beat most others.

And that's one of the reasons you want a 1-seed. The difference between the 3-line and the 4-line seems quite strong this year.
 
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I have to imagine that Tech is going to be on the 3-line. Their top end wins beat most others.

And that's one of the reasons you want a 1-seed. The difference between the 3-line and the 4-line seems quite strong this year.
Wish I could love this post @tzznandrew. This is why I think it's huge to get on the 1 line.
 
One reason is that you can have a Iowa State, Houston, and/or Michigan State as a 3. Not an easy 16 game. I think the 4 seeds are noticeably weaker than the 3 seeds.
Why does it have to be easy?

Isn't the hardware valuable because getting it Isn't easy?

The last thing I want to think is that we were able to accomplish something because it wasn't hard.
 
The I would assume they do is this - they would have Florida/Uconn set for the same region, and have their hypothetical play out based on how each performs in their conference tourney. Uconn wins out, they are 1 in the south, Florida 2 in the south, Uconn trips up and they flip. That is my assumption.
I understand if they do that, but then who cares about the Non-Conference. There has to be some consistency, and last year the Committee talked about the importance of Non-Conference games and teams like UConn scheduled accordingly. Not UConn's fault the Big East is not as good as the SEC (but the SEC is not that great this year), and they beat Florida. I just don't see how winning the conference tournament should matter in the end based on last year. Don't get me wrong, I see your point and you play who you play, but that would seem inconsistent with everything they said last year.
 
Why does it have to be easy?

Isn't the hardware valuable because getting it Isn't easy?

The last thing I want to think is that we were able to accomplish something because it wasn't hard.
No one said it has to be easy. You play who you play, but if you polled coaches and asked would you rather play Houston or Nebraska in the 16s, every single one of them would say Nebraska.
 
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Didn't you think UConn was a safely a 1 seed as of last night? Not surprised you are flip flopping.

The people who are loving Florida as a 1 seed are in the "what have you done for me recently." The committee, at least according to the criteria, is not supposed to bring that into play.

UConn's WAB is 8.8 to Florida' 7.0.
Q1/Q2 record: UConn 17-2 v.s. Florida 16-6
UConn beat Florida on a neutral court.

IMO, UConn would have to lose to Marquette AND lose before the final for the BE tournament plus Florida would need to win out for them to pass us. 6 losses to 3 losses, and WE BEAT THEM ON A NEUTRAL COURT.
The sec does not have really good second team. Florida is beating inferior teams so not picking much imo. Arkansas and Alabama severely flawed. It will be interesting to see how they handle a close game against the big boys. I suspect they will choke similar to duke last year. Right now st johns would be second best in sec.
 
If Houston is on the 3 line, do they still put them in Houston? Then you are screwing the Top 2 seeds potentially.
All 5 of Houston’s losses have been to top NET 20 teams. I could see them getting a 2 but getting shipped out of the South.
 
No one said it has to be easy. You play who you play, but if you polled coaches and asked would you rather play Houston or Nebraska in the 16s, every single one of them would say Nebraska.
If you polled coaches in 1999 and asked "would you rather play Stanford or Gonzaga in the regional final" what would the answer have been? I will go to my grave believing we would have beaten Stanford comfortably. Gonzaga ended up giving us fits for the entirety of the game.

Did we catch a break facing Mississippi St instead of UCLA in 1996?

Did we catch a break in 2006 when seven seed Wichita St knocked off two seed Tennessee? When eleven seed George Mason knocked off better seeded Wichita St?

My point is it's useless to worry about what most are worrying about as it will be completely within our control whether we succeed or fail.
 
No way
Agreed. That would really be penal to the 2 seed and the 1 for that matter to have 3 seed potentially getting 2 home games. Seems Houston may likely be a 2 and get shipped out to another region.
 
I have to imagine that Tech is going to be on the 3-line. Their top end wins beat most others.

And that's one of the reasons you want a 1-seed. The difference between the 3-line and the 4-line seems quite strong this year.
They have some ridiculous wins this year - credit that coach. Yesterday's dominating win seemed so improbable. It makes you wonder if they had Toppin if they could have been in that contender box.
If you polled coaches in 1999 and asked "would you rather play Stanford or Gonzaga in the regional final" what would the answer have been? I will go to my grave believing we would have beaten Stanford comfortably. Gonzaga ended up giving us fits for the entirety of the game.

Did we catch a break facing Mississippi St instead of UCLA in 1996?

Did we catch a break in 2006 when seven seed Wichita St knocked off two seed Tennessee? When eleven seed George Mason knocked off better seeded Wichita St?

My point is it's useless to worry about what most are worrying about as it will be completely within our control whether we succeed or fail.
So much more data and information out these days to assess/evaluate and understand opponents and match ups. Match ups are everything.
 
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If Houston is on the 3 line, do they still put them in Houston? Then you are screwing the Top 2 seeds potentially.

Cuse was a two seed, and they made OK St as a one seed play them in Albany

They made us as a 1 play George Mason as a 12 in DC. I was there, it was 18,000 to 2,000

They made MSU play us as a 7 in MSG

Although they probably didn't think Mason or us would get there, and we won the whole damn thing anyway
 
If you polled coaches in 1999 and asked "would you rather play Stanford or Gonzaga in the regional final" what would the answer have been? I will go to my grave believing we would have beaten Stanford comfortably. Gonzaga ended up giving us fits for the entirety of the game.

Did we catch a break facing Mississippi St instead of UCLA in 1996?

Did we catch a break in 2006 when seven seed Wichita St knocked off two seed Tennessee? When eleven seed George Mason knocked off better seeded Wichita St?

My point is it's useless to worry about what most are worrying about as it will be completely within our control whether we succeed or fail.
That I agree with. In the end you have to beat good teams, don't get me wrong. But I still think, especially with UConn likely being in the South, you would prefer to be the 1 seed rather than the 2.
 
So much more data and information out these days to assess/evaluate and understand opponents and match ups. Match ups are everything.
Yes, there is far more data available, but I doubt it would have changed any of the seeds in prior tournaments that I referenced if the data had been then.

I still stand fully behind this:

My point is it's useless to worry about what most are worrying about as it will be completely within our control whether we succeed or fail.
 
If Houston is on the 3 line, do they still put them in Houston? Then you are screwing the Top 2 seeds potentially.
They shouldn’t but they will. It’ll be a make up for last year when they had to play 4 seed Purdue in Indianapolis
 
They made us as a 1 play George Mason as a 12 in DC. I was there, it was 18,000 to 2,000
They didn't make an 11 seed play us in DC, the 11 seed earned it. The 2 seed was Tennessee, the 3 seed was UNC, and the 4/5 was Washington/Illinois. Other than UNC, UConn would have the clear home court against any of them.

Nobody could have—or should have—fussed about an 11-seed potentially having home games in the Regional Semis or Finals. GM had to beat a 6-MSU and then a 3-UNC before they got the 7-Wichita. Just a wild turn of events. UConn barely survived against Washington, about as far away as possible.

And UConn still should have won.
 
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Cuse was a two seed, and they made OK St as a one seed play them in Albany

They made us as a 1 play George Mason as a 12 in DC. I was there, it was 18,000 to 2,000

They made MSU play us as a 7 in MSG

Although they probably didn't think Mason or us would get there, and we won the whole damn thing anyway
The only one there that really matters is Cuse; that’s a tough draw for OKST.

We played GMU in DC not because of them, but because of who their 3 seed was (I can’t remember; UNC?). Only the top four seeds are placed into regionals with geographic location as a factor. Seeds 5-16 are placed into pods by geography. This is how you get the correlation between GMU eventually getting into the East in 06 (because of UNC(?)) and us getting the East in 14 (because of Nova). It’s also why we got sent to relatively local Buffalo in 2022. Going down the bracket, the higher you are on your seed line, the more likely you are to be given a geographically advantageous pod. In 2022, we were 17 on the s-curve, the top 5 seed. Therefore, we had all four 4 seed pods available and went to the one with the best geography for us.

So, because those top four seeds are placed into regionals by geography, and they’re likely to also have advantageous pods (at least the 1-3 seeds), it tracks that the lower seeded teams going into those pods would also theoretically belong geographically to the eventual regional.

And of course, for both the top seeds being assigned a regional and the rest of the field being assigned a pod, the committee will make moves that ignore geography as conferences and competitive balance requires.

It’s all relatively complicated, but us bracket nerds love this ish. I think the average but passionate bracketologist (including me lol) could do this far better than the committee.

Edit: what does this mean for Houston? If they’re 9 on the s-curve (the top 3 seed), them being placed in the South remains a distinct possibility, unless they get shuffled after the top seeds are assigned to account for conferences or competition.
 
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For me, it's as recent as 2024. They argued Purdue was the number one team in the country, based on metrics, based on the "body of work". They played in the almighty B10 dontchaknow. They lost in the conference championship game, so I think we became the number one overall seed (what a shame)
This is revisionist. Uconn and purdue were viewed as the best two teams. They were. And Uconn was a lot better.

You want more data points? In 2023, the world had written uconn off. Metrics never dropped uconn below 6. The metrics knew. The people were morons.
 
Nothing here not being discussed already.

Does UConn hold a trump card?

With Selection Sunday still two weeks away, the debate is all hypothetical for now. But if the Huskies and Gators are next to each other in the seeding hierarchy on Selection Sunday, UConn holds a potential trump card. The Huskies topped Florida on Dec. 9 inside Madison Square Garden. That was before the Gators hit their stride, but it could be a data point the selection committee considers in a tight race.

There are limitations on the significance of head-to-head results in the seeding process, because upsets are a part of college basketball's fabric, and leaning too hard into head-to-head could lead to seeding discrepancies. But in a scenario where two teams fighting for a spot on a certain seed line played on a neutral court, it could be something the committee considers.


 
BTW, I would not be shocked if Kentucky beats Florida at Rupp next Saturday. Kentucky is an enigma, but they will be jacked up to play Florida at home.
Yeah we should definitely keep in mind that the Florida winning out scenario is a minority outcome, KenPom puts it like 30% or so (and that's only giving 20% chance to Kentucky, which you seem to think is higher, and I probably agree).
 
I don’t understand how people are saying Fla is the fourth number one seed —we beat them pretty handedly number one - and number two. We’ve been in the top five or 6 for the entire year. Florida is just cracking into the top 7-8 now. to me. It’s not even close.
 
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