Question on shot mechanics

[tchalla1]

I am wondering about Ashlynn’s shot mechanics. It seems to my inexpert eye that her shot is usually rather flat but when she‘s in the rhythm of the offense, the shot goes in, as though the shot was softer. After the ND game, I felt Ash took some unfounded criticism for her scoring as she was looking to score but her shots flattened out even more and were more like line drive fastballs than her usual shot. I’m guessing she was a bit nervous?

My questions:

1. Am I totally wrong on this re: the flat shots? I’m certainly no expert. Maybe I’m missing something.
2. Do Ash’s shooting mechanics change when she gets tight? If so, does it get corrected by just playing these games and letting her figure it out?

I think the criticism of Ash is unfortunate because she’s still a young player, only a sophomore, and she had never played at Purcell Arena, a perfect example of a hostile environment. She’s done so many things right, and so consistently, that I’m not as disappointed with her missing a few shots as other fans. She’s usually mentally tough so if the issue is a mental approach one and not a mechanics one, I have every confidence Ash will figure it out

1. I agree that Ash has a prettyflat shot, it has practically no arch to it. Usually flat shots have to be more accurate, more pinpoint.. Ash's mechanics are very sound as you would expect being a coach's kid.
2. I too feel the criticism of Ash was unwarranted-and I am confident that she will bounce back from it.... This young woman has a lot of grit and determination!

 

[cgshuskie]

Ash's shooting woes are caused by nervousness. A shooting stroke changes when a player is overly nervous or uncertain. It's a mental thing. When a shooter is adamant and insistent; they make the most improbable shots. Overcoming the tension is an important attribute which comes with experience or fearlessness. Also, good to great shots have some arc. Arc is necessary to make the net pop!

 

[WiseWillie]

I wouldn't think so, there's not any "think" time for shooting available out there. Notice in the pictures how Shade's shoulder is locked in close to her chin as opposed to Fudd. That keeps her from being able to adjust her release point when the shot is contested. You tend to shoot OUT instead of UP from that position, hence the lack of arc. The best release for rotation and consistency comes off your index and middle fingers. Shade's tucked position makes her prone to streaks of the ball coming more off of her ring and little fingers which isn't ideal. See how it's already tilted coming off her hand compared to how square Fudd's is? Christyn Williams had that problem. It creates a sidespin on the ball. Fudd's release is the best and most consistent that I've seen and Bueckers' is close.

Well done, BobbyJ. I wonder if the UConn coaching staff are working with her on developing the correct mechanics now or whether better to not try to mess with shot mechanics right now for fear of really screwing things up and instead place a priority for development in the off season.

 

[BobbyJ]

Well done, BobbyJ. I wonder if the UConn coaching staff are working with her on developing the correct mechanics now or whether better to not try to mess with shot mechanics right now for fear of really screwing things up and instead place a priority for development in the off season.

As I said in post #3, changing the mechanics will take a lot of practice time and reps with a knowledgeable trainer/coach supervising until she can feel it and be able to self correct. Yes, offseason for sure. For now just focus on shooting OVER the front of the rim, not AT.

 

[From France]

CONFIDENCE is the key

 

[BBallF]

That's no set shot that Bueckers is shooting.

It absolutely is. She is releasing it on her way up not at the top of her jump. Look at her pull up in the lane. That is a jump shot.

 

[Bald Husky]

I am wondering about Ashlynn’s shot mechanics. It seems to my inexpert eye that her shot is usually rather flat but when she‘s in the rhythm of the offense, the shot goes in, as though the shot was softer. After the ND game, I felt Ash took some unfounded criticism for her scoring as she was looking to score but her shots flattened out even more and were more like line drive fastballs than her usual shot. I’m guessing she was a bit nervous?

My questions:

1. Am I totally wrong on this re: the flat shots? I’m certainly no expert. Maybe I’m missing something.
2. Do Ash’s shooting mechanics change when she gets tight? If so, does it get corrected by just playing these games and letting her figure it out?

I think the criticism of Ash is unfortunate because she’s still a young player, only a sophomore, and she had never played at Purcell Arena, a perfect example of a hostile environment. She’s done so many things right, and so consistently, that I’m not as disappointed with her missing a few shots as other fans. She’s usually mentally tough so if the issue is a mental approach one and not a mechanics one, I have every confidence Ash will figure it out

I think to a great mid-range shooter, a flat shot is easier than taking a floater shot. Getting within 8 feet of the rim, a flat mid-range shot is like taking a 3-footer and using the board rather than trying to hit a very delicate shot. When pulling up, the momentum of the player makes it hard to finesse the shot, so throwing it at the back of the rim is an easier shot. Does any of this make sense?

 

[BobbyJ]

It absolutely is. She is releasing it on her way up not at the top of her jump. Look at her pull up in the lane. That is a jump shot.

Feet on the floor is a set shot. Like a foul shot. Feet off the floor is not.

 

[HuskyNan]

It absolutely is. She is releasing it on her way up not at the top of her jump. Look at her pull up in the lane. That is a jump shot.

I think you said set shot when you meant jump shot

 

[Bone Dog]

I think you said set shot when you meant jump shot

View attachment 105509

Yup. This is how I’ve always thought of it, too.

I don’t know how many players can actually launch an effective 3pt jump shot. Not many, I expect. The sign of it is commentators typically praise someone who “sets their feet” in anticipation of the shot. The ambiguous case is players who leave their feet in the process of the shot so as to get an assist from their legs because their arms aren’t strong enough to be accurate from this distance. That’s not really a jump shot in my view, but I think lots of people call them jump shots because their feet leave the floor in the process.

Think of it in relation to the midrange jump shot Ash or Paige or Azzi takes. They take a dribble, stop and jump, and at the top of the jump or even a little after they release the ball. The force of the shot is not based on the muscles used in the jump itself, but is the result of wrist and forearms working to some extent in isolation from the leg muscles. Watch Paige’s signature inbounds jump shot in which she receives the ball on the right, goes up and releases the ball at the top. Occasionally she has to alter her body position in mid-air to evade a defender. That shot is all wrist and forearm, and that’s why she can alter it, do a fake, etc. after she’s left the floor.

Another feature of Paige’s midrange jump shot is the high release point. It‘s released above her forehead. Same with Azzi and Ash. Of the three, Paige seems to be the most acrobatic when it comes to adjusting the shot in mid air. But making any adjustments requires a high release point.

Now, applying this view of the mechanics of a jump shot, I think there are very few players who ave the hand and arm strength to release a true jump shot from beyond the arc. This is true on the men’s side, too. I know Azzi is strong enough to do this — she has really strong hands. It looks like Ash can as well. Unless their pressed by a defender, I think most players will shoot a set shot from 3, though they’ll leave their feet in the process.

Another thing to consider is players who do a slight ‘kip’ at the waist as they shoot from beyond the arc. Ash and Kaitlyn both do this. it’s worth reflecting on the mechanics of this movement.

 

[HuskyNan]

The best set shooter in UConn history may be Maria Conlon.

 

[BobbyJ]

Yup. This is how I’ve always thought of it, too.

I don’t know how many players can actually launch an effective 3pt jump shot. Not many, I expect. The sign of it is commentators typically praise someone who “sets their feet” in anticipation of the shot. The ambiguous case is players who leave their feet in the process of the shot so as to get an assist from their legs because their arms aren’t strong enough to be accurate from this distance. That’s not really a jump shot in my view, but I think lots of people call them jump shots because their feet leave the floor in the process.

Think of it in relation to the midrange jump shot Ash or Paige or Azzi takes. They take a dribble, stop and jump, and at the top of the jump or even a little after they release the ball. The force of the shot is not based on the muscles used in the jump itself, but is the result of wrist and forearms working to some extent in isolation from the leg muscles. Watch Paige’s signature inbounds jump shot in which she receives the ball on the right, goes up and releases the ball at the top. Occasionally she has to alter her body position in mid-air to evade a defender. That shot is all wrist and forearm, and that’s why she can alter it, do a fake, etc. after she’s left the floor.

Another feature of Paige’s midrange jump shot is the high release point. It‘s released above her forehead. Same with Azzi and Ash. Of the three, Paige seems to be the most acrobatic when it comes to adjusting the shot in mid air. But making any adjustments requires a high release point.

Now, applying this view of the mechanics of a jump shot, I think there are very few players who ave the hand and arm strength to release a true jump shot from beyond the arc. This is true on the men’s side, too. I know Azzi is strong enough to do this — she has really strong hands. It looks like Ash can as well. Unless their pressed by a defender, I think most players will shoot a set shot from 3, though they’ll leave their feet in the process.

Another thing to consider is players who do a slight ‘kip’ at the waist as they shoot from beyond the arc. Ash and Kaitlyn both do this. it’s worth reflecting on the mechanics of this movement.

1) Setting the feet prior to the actual shot is taught to ensure that the shooter is in balance to minimize any sideward or backward motion as the shooter leaves the floor which leads to an inconsistent release point. It's referred to as "drifting".
2) You must jump to leave the floor. Regardless of when the ball is released, late or early in the jump, it is a jump shot. No one leaves the floor on a set shot. And whether it's 3 inches or 8 I haven't seen any female shooter launch a 3 without leaving the floor.

set shot.

 

[Bone Dog]

You must jump to leave the floor. Regardless of when the ball is released, late or early in the jump, it is a jump shot. No one leaves the floor on a set shot. And whether it's 3 inches or 8 I haven't seen any female shooter launch a 3 without leaving the floor.

Fair enough. I just remember being taught by my coach — 50+ years ago — to rely on my wrists and forearm strength to get off a good shot.

When I was 11, it was impossible to avoid using some of the muscular force of my legs to propel even a 15 footer to the rim. By the time I was 17, I was strong enough to rely upon n my wrists and forearms alone and separate the action of my legs propelling me upwards into the jump from the action of my hands making the shot.

My coach would say, “the less you rely on leg force, the more consistent your shot will be.” Separating the two actions was more of an aspirational ideal, for me at least. But for a couple of the kids on the team, they were eventually able to realize it.

This is what I see especially clearly in Azzi. She shoots with wrist and forearm, not with hips and thighs. It’s beautiful. Other muscles are involved in the entire process, but they are not directly affected involved in propelling the ball to the hoop. Back shoulder and abdominal muscles create a stable platform. Legs and abdominals contribute to the jump.

As my high school physics teacher would say, there’s a vertical component and a parabolic component. The more you can keep those two things separate the easier each one will be.

 

[BBallF]

So we have a semantical problem. First, it is not true that in the men's game there are only a few 'jump shots" from the arc. Almost everyone does it. I will give you an exception though and it is Alex Karaban. On the other hand McNeeley's shot is a jump shot. Paige's pull up from within 15 feet is a pure jump shot. The ball is released at the top of the jump or on the way down. When she shoots her 3, it is released on the way up. She does not hang in the air on her 3 ball. That is what I am using as the difference irrespective of a dictionary definition. There is no name yet for a hybrid of both.

Most women shoot this hybrid set shot as opposed to a pure jump shot from the 3. The advantage of the jump shot is accuracy, getting it above the defender and also it is a most difficult shot to block because of the timing required on defense. The shooter knows when she is going up and can control the release as in Paige's double pumps. Sarah can do it too but it takes a lot of strength. That little lane pull up that Ransom has from Georgetown is the same thing. She hangs in the air. Really muscular and tough to defend and that's why she averaged 21 a game before she ran into us.

I still maintain that for Ash's inconsistency it is the legs being fresh and also the confidence with the latter being more of factor with her. Clock the time in the air and you will se that PaIge's hang time on the jumper is longer in the air than her 3 before her release. That baby jumper she takes on the in bounds play is unstoppable and it is because of the timing, the ability to control the release, and the ability to evade the defender by moving in the air.

We are probably saying the same thing but they are two very different shots. Sarah shoots the "hybrid" from the arc but also has the pull up J as well. The "double pump" is a form of the pure jump shot, made originally famous by Elgin Baylor and perfected by Dr. J and then MJ. He wasn't shooting anything but jumpers from the arc.

 

[BBallF]

1) Setting the feet prior to the actual shot is taught to ensure that the shooter is in balance to minimize any sideward or backward motion as the shooter leaves the floor which leads to an inconsistent release point. It's referred to as "drifting".
2) You must jump to leave the floor. Regardless of when the ball is released, late or early in the jump, it is a jump shot. No one leaves the floor on a set shot. And whether it's 3 inches or 8 I haven't seen any female shooter launch a 3 without leaving the floor.

set shot.

Once again, there is a difference between a jump shot and a 3 point push shot where the shooter may leave the floor. Just because you jump it's not a jump shot. Otherwise what do you call it when Paige goes up and releases at the top of her jump or on the way down from 10 feet? The same as her 3? It's the hang time in the air and if you have shot them you will know the strength it takes.

The primary reason for the feet set is so that the shooter is square to the basket. It's just physics. Be at an angle to the basket and you have to over compensate on the release to be straight. If you are squared up, it is a straight ahead shot.

 

[BBallF]

As Coach Calhoun said on the commercials years ago, “a good shot starts at the toes and ends at the fingertips.”There is nothing wrong with Ashlyn’s mechanics. She is an excellent shooter who me thinks lost some confidence when she “lost” her starting role. She was fine yesterday, and will continue to be a big contributor

I don't think it was not starting I just think that is her personality. She needs to reach that point where you no longer worries and just plays and sh will be fine. We will need that tonight and Saturday.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Paul Arizin of the old Philadelphia Warriors, a pioneer of the jump shot, used to shoot line-drives, supposedly because he grew up playing in low-ceiling dance halls. Not the best technique. Your hoop target is much larger, the more verticality in the arc. (Take a look at that rainmaker 3 that Morgan hit against Georgetown.)

It could be that the youngsters are still suffering from the Bahama's gym, which was like a low ceiling dance hall....

Hopefully, that will be cured tonight...

Go Huskies!!!

 

[BobbyJ]

Once again, there is a difference between a jump shot and a 3 point push shot where the shooter may leave the floor. Just because you jump it's not a jump shot. Otherwise what do you call it when Paige goes up and releases at the top of her jump or on the way down from 10 feet? The same as her 3? It's the hang time in the air and i have shot them you will know the strength it takes.

The primary reason for the feet set is so that the shooter is square to the basket. It's just physics. Be at an angle to the basket and you have to over compensate on the release to be straight. If you are squared up, it is a straight ahead shot.

1) Can't believe you actually typed this. Ask Bueckers, it's a jump shot no matter when you release it. She shoots it the same as Steph Curry does.
2) Yes I'm well aware, I played many years and know what a jump shot is.
3) Completely square is not optimum, you'd have problems reaching the rim. Shooting side shoulder and same side foot should be slightly ahead, about a 15 degree angle, when going up and at release. Curry is a pretty good example.

252 Stephen Curry Jump Shot Stock Photos, High-Res Pictures, and Images - Getty Images

 

[Darkbloom]

I am wondering about Ashlynn’s shot mechanics. It seems to my inexpert eye that her shot is usually rather flat but when she‘s in the rhythm of the offense, the shot goes in, as though the shot was softer. After the ND game, I felt Ash took some unfounded criticism for her scoring as she was looking to score but her shots flattened out even more and were more like line drive fastballs than her usual shot. I’m guessing she was a bit nervous?

My questions:

1. Am I totally wrong on this re: the flat shots? I’m certainly no expert. Maybe I’m missing something.
2. Do Ash’s shooting mechanics change when she gets tight? If so, does it get corrected by just playing these games and letting her figure it out?

I think the criticism of Ash is unfortunate because she’s still a young player, only a sophomore, and she had never played at Purcell Arena, a perfect example of a hostile environment. She’s done so many things right, and so consistently, that I’m not as disappointed with her missing a few shots as other fans. She’s usually mentally tough so if the issue is a mental approach one and not a mechanics one, I have every confidence Ash will figure it out

A simple fact: the basket is "largest" when the ball is dropping straight down, which of course it can't when shot from any distance. However, approximating that angle with appropriate arc can do wonders. For those of us that are old enough to remember Oscar Robertson's release point and arc, they were things of repeatable beauty. Ray Allen modeled his shot after the Big O. I see some similarity of release point between Robertson and Strong.

 

[BBallF]

1) Can't believe you actually typed this. Ask Bueckers, it's a jump shot no matter when you release it. She shoots it the same as Steph Curry does.
2) Yes I'm well aware, I played many years and know what a jump shot is.
3) Completely square is not optimum, you'd have problems reaching the rim. Shooting side shoulder and same side foot should be slightly ahead, about a 15 degree angle, when going up and at release. Curry is a pretty good example.

252 Stephen Curry Jump Shot Stock Photos, High-Res Pictures, and Images - Getty Images

1) I played 4 years of high school and 4 years of college and also coached. So we have a semantics problem. How do you differentiate Curry's 3 point shot and MJ's or Kobe's or Brunson's? Or Paige's pull up from 5 feet vs. her 3 point shot? No difference in your definition? I see a major difference. One is a classic pure jump shot where the player reaches the top of their jump, then releases, doesn't release on the way up. That's what Ash does and that's why legs are so important. Paige has both shots one of which (her 3) is a hybrid of a set and jump shot.
2) So every shot from every player where they leave the floor is a jump shot, including layups, hook shots, etc? How about a foul shot where a player leaves their feet as they shoot? We both know that is not the case.
3) It's your body that is squared up, not your feet but your feet are squared up to the rim meaning they are in plane with it. If your body is at an angle to the rim, or your feet are it's a much harder shot. Every good shooter squares up when they receive the pass for a shot or when they stop their dribble to pull up for one. Watch Ash's feet. Sometimes she is not squared up and still shoots the J but often that shot misses.

This debate should be about Ash and her mechanics which I think are exemplary. As I said I think it is an energy and confidence issue. Also, a great defender can stop almost anyone. Not a Paige and not a JuJu though. If you ask me who is a better offensive player it's Paige. She goes to her left and has every shot needed and can create one on the fly.

 

[BobbyJ]

1) I played 4 years of high school and 4 years of college and also coached. So we have a semantics problem. How do you differentiate Curry's 3 point shot and MJ's or Kobe's or Brunson's? Or Paige's pull up from 5 feet vs. her 3 point shot? No difference in your definition? I see a major difference. One is a classic pure jump shot where the player reaches the top of their jump, then releases, doesn't release on the way up. That's what Ash does and that's why legs are so important. Paige has both shots one of which (her 3) is a hybrid of a set and jump shot.
2) So every shot from every player where they leave the floor is a jump shot, including layups, hook shots, etc? How about a foul shot where a player leaves their feet as they shoot? We both know that is not the case.
3) It's your body that is squared up, not your feet but your feet are squared up to the rim meaning they are in plane with it. If your body is at an angle to the rim, or your feet are it's a much harder shot. Every good shooter squares up when they receive the pass for a shot or when they stop their dribble to pull up for one. Watch Ash's feet. Sometimes she is not squared up and still shoots the J but often that shot misses.

This debate should be about Ash and her mechanics which I think are exemplary. As I said I think it is an energy and confidence issue. Also, a great defender can stop almost anyone. Not a Paige and not a JuJu though. If you ask me who is a better offensive player it's Paige. She goes to her left and has every shot needed and can create one on the fly.

1) I don't bother to, they are all jump shots and they just release at different heights and levels while in the air.
2) No, they are different shots with different arm movements. That's why they are called hooks, layups etc.
3) Curry, Durant, Bird etc. have/had no problem making shots and they all angle their body with the right side obviously ahead of the left. The photos don't lie.
4) I commented on Shade's mechanics in post #3.

 

[BBallF]

1) I don't bother to, they are all jump shots and they just release at different heights and levels while in the air.
2) No, they are different shots with different arm movements. That's why they are called hooks, layups etc.
3) Curry, Durant, Bird etc. have/had no problem making shots and they all angle their body with the right side obviously ahead of the left. The photos don't lie.
4) I commented on Shade's mechanics in post #3.

That's no set shot that Bueckers is shooting.

I think we exhausted this subject. Please rewatch the Paige video though. Notice how she squares up her body to the rim for every shot as she receives a pass or stops dribbling. All of the great shooters do this including Curry, Durant , Bird, Jordan, Kobe etc. When they release the arm they shoot with obviously goes ahead of the other arm and the body follows it and the fact that the shooting foot is ahead of the other does not effect it. Very few Dick Barnetts out there, the former Knick who actually lined up on the foul line at an acute angle. Enjoy the game. hopefully Ash will shoot freer and have a hot hand. She needs it and so do we.

 

[Steelerone]

I am wondering about Ashlynn’s shot mechanics. It seems to my inexpert eye that her shot is usually rather flat but when she‘s in the rhythm of the offense, the shot goes in, as though the shot was softer. After the ND game, I felt Ash took some unfounded criticism for her scoring as she was looking to score but her shots flattened out even more and were more like line drive fastballs than her usual shot. I’m guessing she was a bit nervous?

My questions:

1. Am I totally wrong on this re: the flat shots? I’m certainly no expert. Maybe I’m missing something.
2. Do Ash’s shooting mechanics change when she gets tight? If so, does it get corrected by just playing these games and letting her figure it out?

I think the criticism of Ash is unfortunate because she’s still a young player, only a sophomore, and she had never played at Purcell Arena, a perfect example of a hostile environment. She’s done so many things right, and so consistently, that I’m not as disappointed with her missing a few shots as other fans. She’s usually mentally tough so if the issue is a mental approach one and not a mechanics one, I have every confidence Ash will figure it out

HN, I recently posted a thread concerning shooting a few days ago and was criticized by a couple of boneyarders. My point was that I felt too many times the player, upon receiving the ball, almost in the same move as catching it, shot it. One of the most important parts of shooting is the position of the body and the majority of the time the player will have a second or two to do this, otherwise go into a dribble or pass the ball.

 

[mainerhuski]

It could be that the youngsters are still suffering from the Bahama's gym, which was like a low ceiling dance hall....

Hopefully, that will be cured tonight...

Go Huskies!!!

What a joke that Bahamas tourney was, abysmal attendance, frustratingly subpar broadcast & apparently several of the teams had players contract food poisoning!

 

[Barkin Out]

Yes, @HuskyNan, UConn did add a trajectory tracking system at Worth this year. It lets the kids know the angle at which the ball enters the hoop. The guy pedaling the system to the other coaches at the clinic seemed excited to have scored UCONN as a recognizable brand. Now, after 10 games, the huskies are ranked 90th in the country in 3 pt accuracy. This from a team that recruits some of the best shooters available. Not sure that a ringing endorsement of the product!

 

[packwrap]

It appears Ash read this thread tonight just before warmups.

 

[Barkin Out]

Yes, @HuskyNan, UConn did add a trajectory tracking system at Worth this year. It lets the kids know the angle at which the ball enters the hoop. The guy pedaling the system to the other coaches at the clinic seemed excited to have scored UCONN as a recognizable brand. Now, after 10 games, the huskies are ranked 90th in the country in 3 pt accuracy. This from a team that recruits some of the best shooters available. Not sure that a ringing endorsement of the product!

So glad this did not age well! Congratulations to Shade for a killer 1st quarter- love it. The show she and Paige put on was an unbelievable.

 

[BBallF]

It appears Ash read this thread tonight just before warmups.

Yeah, I think we fixed Ash's mechanics!

 

[Dugway]

Yeehaw

 

[DEFCONN1]

After watching the Iowa State game, I’d say Ashlynn’s mechanics are just fine.